Please consider re-examining res utilities

[Shiyo.3578]

It's hard to secure kills in this current meta outside of AT's. You reduced all damage by 33% but did not nerf res utilities to compensate for this. There is barely any counter play to res utilities, as an ele can MIST FORM - > glyph(being completely invincible while ressing someone), glyph - > blink, etc. The only real class that can interact with res utilities is x/p thief due to having no cooldown on a ranged interrupt.

You already used all your resources and cooldowns to down a target, unless you are severely beating the enemy, it's too much to ask(and nearly impossible) to also have the resources and cooldowns left to pressure/interrupt someone using a res utility.

Please make res utilities less used and less common as they are not fun to fight against, add no depth to the game, and are too powerful in their current state. I suggest a 300 second cooldown, as that ensures only 2 resses per game, while still too strong(imo), it would at least be more reasonable to deal with.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Shiyo.3578 said:It's hard to secure kills in this current meta outside of AT's. You reduced all damage by 33% but did not nerf res utilities to compensate for this. There is barely any counter play to res utilities, as an ele can MIST FORM - > glyph(being completely invincible while ressing someone), glyph - > blink, etc. The only real class that can interact with res utilities is x/p thief due to having no cooldown on a ranged interrupt.

You already used all your resources and cooldowns to down a target, unless you are severely beating the enemy, it's too much to ask(and nearly impossible) to also have the resources and cooldowns left to pressure/interrupt someone using a res utility.

Please make res utilities less used and less common as they are not fun to fight against, add no depth to the game, and are too powerful in their current state. I suggest a 300 second cooldown, as that ensures only 2 resses per game, while still too strong(imo), it would at least be more reasonable to deal with.

I'm not going to comment on res utilities because OP is right, but if we're on the topic of securing kills, can we take a look at Lick Wounds in particular, so that disabling the pet interrupts the skill/puts it on cd? Its kind of silly for the heal to be guaranteed until the pet is defeated, while they also have a channeled heal and a daze at their disposal. In situations where you cant cleave them and have an opponent to deal with, you also can't tap them to interrupt healing.

[Newholiday.8103]

Does anyone even like rez glyphs? I always slot it on my ele, since it's op, but I'd rather slot something else if the option went away.

[Aktium.9506]

I like the Necro one even if its very rarely used. The fact that it costs a flat 10k health to cast and can be interrupted while still incurring the health cost is a really good trade-off balancewise. Though I'm not sure what could be done to give the other ones a similar trade-off. Maybe 50% reduced healing for a few seconds on Ele and immunity to boon application for a few secs on the Guard one. Being able to cast it while in Mistform definitely has to be fixed though. Even if it costs two utilities to do it it's far too strong when combined with Renewal of Water.

[ollbirtan.2915]

Res utilities have been already nerfed to the ground. If you can't counter them, it's an l2p issue. The only "oversight" I can agree with is ele being able to glyph into mistform.

[Ovark.2514]

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Res utilities have been already nerfed to the ground. If you can't counter them, it's an l2p issue. The only "oversight" I can agree with is ele being able to glyph into mistform.

L2P posts as they are incredibly unhelpful on-top of missing the point. If something makes the game particularly un-fun to the point where many people feel the need to post about it on the forums, it doesn't matter how "technically balanced" it is, it needs to be redesigned. In the end, we are here to have FUN, a large part of which is reaping the benefits of our hard work and/or skill.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Res utilities have been already nerfed to the ground. If you can't counter them, it's an l2p issue. The only "oversight" I can agree with is ele being able to glyph into mistform.

even if there wasnt mist form glyph can potentially be broken, fully picking someone up is REALLY powerful effect, there is a reason why Illusion of Life on mesmer doesnt do that, its REALLY easy to get off as mesmer, due to stealth, or blink or instacast daze/whatever.Ele is in similar boat, shocking aura, their weird blink, stability, reflect aura all can deny rupts.I personally would like ALL insta-revives gone. Too much work goes into downing someone, to have it negated, especially since many of the times there is simply NOTHING you can do to stop them. And cementing thief as " hey it can stop glyph so glyph is balanced ". We shouldnt need to have a MANDATORY class.

P.SI play mantra, powerblock mesmer, and even then there is high chance that there is nothing I can do to stop glyph, there is no real animation, they can precast it, they can get stability, they can kite behind los or they can do all three.

• it removes huge part of the game which is bleeding people, you CANT afford to bleed anyone EVER, with all the thief stealth, scrapper gyros, glyphs and low cleave damage in general that part of the game is almost gone :/

EDIT.Full res, is in similar shoes as portal on mesmer.If you can take it and still be capable of doing your role, then its overpowered, and furstrating. Currently ele can take glyph and still perform its supporting role.

[ollbirtan.2915]

Simply no - the only issue is ele's glyph. Guards and necros signet have been nerfed and barely see any use mainly because they are virtually impossible to pull off vs a competent team who will CC you to eternity. Mistform glyph is broken, the rest are fine. Period.

[Shiyo.3578]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:Simply no - the only issue is ele's glyph. Guards and necros signet have been nerfed and barely see any use mainly because they are virtually impossible to pull off vs a competent team who will CC you to eternity. Mistform glyph is broken, the rest are fine. Period.

Scrapper gyro and it's res elixir toolbelt skill.

Also, if you have CC left to ALSO CC someone using a glyph you're super far ahead and steam rolling/outplaying. Expecting someone to CC to secure a kill AND THEN still have CC left to deal with a res util is unreasonable.

[ollbirtan.2915]

No, it's perfectly reasonable. Actually this comes down to 2 things - your personal skill and that of your teammates. Bad players and mismatched groups will fail most of the time. So will good players placed in a lower skill group by anet's wonderful matchmaking system. I don't really see serious AT players complaining about 'these OMG OP" res skills. They play around and counter them.

[Shiyo.3578]

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:No, it's perfectly reasonable. Actually this comes down to 2 things - your personal skill and that of your teammates. Bad players and mismatched groups will fail most of the time. So will good players placed in a lower skill group by anet's wonderful matchmaking system. I don't really see serious AT players complaining about 'these OMG OP" res skills. They play around and counter them.

I've seen numerous top20 players consistently complain about res utilities and say you do not interact with them and they have no counterplay.

[ollbirtan.2915]

I have not. Also - being top 20 doesn't really mean much these days and we all know that. Wintrading to the the top.yay!

[NotFound.7813]

@Ovark.2514 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Res utilities have been already nerfed to the ground. If you can't counter them, it's an l2p issue. The only "oversight" I can agree with is ele being able to glyph into mistform.

L2P posts as they are incredibly unhelpful on-top of missing the point. If something makes the game particularly un-fun to the point where many people feel the need to post about it on the forums, it doesn't matter how "technically balanced" it is, it needs to be redesigned. In the end, we are here to have FUN, a large part of which is reaping the benefits of our hard work and/or skill.

So if not that good players cant counter a mechanic cuz they are not that good at the game in terms of rupting skills we should nerf it ? So instead of getting better at the game u prefer a friendly game to casuals . Sounds fair to me .

Also this guy is making a great job at manipulation with mistform glyph , everyone complained about that and it is bug .without mistform glyph can be rupter.

So we should make a game without any skilful mechanic cuz if ppl cant master it anet should nerf :[ . Better we have a game that consist on all bunker build spamming skills and killing without even knowing why (we dont want ppl getting rez after spamming all our skills wtf thats unfun, i dont want to take care of a 2s cast time animation rupting it wtf thats too much) , we should delete too big burstt classes like rev cuz no one enjoys being killed or like power mes on the past no one enjoys dodging or beig killef , or without thief cuz no one enjoys getting deccaped with a slowly bunker build, or no one enjoys getting 2v1ing out of position so we nerf movility too .

[NotFound.7813]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Res utilities have been already nerfed to the ground. If you can't counter them, it's an l2p issue. The only "oversight" I can agree with is ele being able to glyph into mistform.

even if there wasnt mist form glyph can potentially be broken, fully picking someone up is REALLY powerful effect, there is a reason why Illusion of Life on mesmer doesnt do that, its REALLY easy to get off as mesmer, due to stealth, or blink or instacast daze/whatever.Ele is in similar boat, shocking aura, their weird blink, stability, reflect aura all can deny rupts.I personally would like ALL insta-revives gone. Too much work goes into downing someone, to have it negated, especially since many of the times there is simply NOTHING you can do to stop them. And cementing thief as " hey it can stop glyph so glyph is balanced ". We shouldnt need to have a MANDATORY class.

P.SI play mantra, powerblock mesmer, and even then there is high chance that there is nothing I can do to stop glyph, there is no real animation, they can precast it, they can get stability, they can kite behind los or they can do all three.

• it removes huge part of the game which is bleeding people, you CANT afford to bleed anyone EVER, with all the thief stealth, scrapper gyros, glyphs and low cleave damage in general that part of the game is almost gone :/

EDIT.Full res, is in similar shoes as portal on mesmer.If you can take it and still be capable of doing your role, then its overpowered, and furstrating. Currently ele can take glyph and still perform its supporting role.

Mesmer has illusion of life not being a full rezz cuz mesmer is not a teamfighter , is like comparing it at giving a rezz skill to a thief xdd .

[NotFound.7813]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:I have not. Also - being top 20 doesn't really mean much these days and we all know that. Wintrading to the the top.yay!

I bet his probably refering to top players complaining about mistform glyph xdd

[Fueki.4753]

Don't forget to propose equal nerfs to finishing enemies, when proposing nerfs to reviving; especially safe finishers like the shrink elixir.

[Shiyo.3578]

Hope the 15th patch has hard nerfs to this ability, it's completely overpowered in non-organized(aka 99.99% of what people experience) gameplay. The only class that can reliably interact with it is thief, everyone else lacks the tools.

[Downstate.4697]

Slap a 150cd on it and call it a day

[anduriell.6280]

From my point of view:

• Ress skills have a place in the game, the player makes the choice to replace an offensive skill for a deffensive one.
• Ress skills should have a long CD to make the contribution significant. While in mist form all skills should be locked.
• I think the Revive action is more problematic than an skill with a 60s CD. The fact a downed can be revived with no cost to the build whatsoever is a bad design.
• Revive action should be removed from all PvP gamemodes, even from competitive in general (including raids)