condi damage new burst damage !

[Greyrebel.7492]

hi , ok i know there r so many complains about scourge and tbh its days im trying to do pvp and i noticed its literly unplayable vs scourges , im playing mmos for like 13 years , i never seen such an op unbalanced class in any games even those low quility korean mmos ....in an anet interview i saw they said power is about burst damage but condies in long term dps more than powers like in 8-10 sec or something like this , but i enter pvp see a necro and im dead in 2 ticks and thats it see a condi scouge with corruption skill and u r dead , ive heard people told me that i need to play a counter class ! but i dont want to change my whole play style and play a build i hate just for a single class in game being op, not op ! impossible , i know now that many necro players come and comment that necro is the weakest class ever, but seriously pvp is literly unplayable please fix it anet

[Razor.6392]

Looks like a copypasta but hes right. Power is burst, condi is damage over time.

4-6k damage over time is higher than most burst power skills combos in the game.

[Reaper Alim.4176]

Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

[Crinn.7864]

Writes thread title about condi damage.

Ends up complaining exclusively about scourge.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

Well, there are also some major differences. In MOBAs, all parts of the rock-paper-scissors triangle are more or less equally effective at accomplishing the objectives of the game type. That is not the case here. Being forced off point to fight a scourge is losing time and giving points to the opposing team. In addition, there is counter pick at the start of the match, when choosing characters, and seeing what character an opponent is playing tells you what will counter it. Even if there were a decent chance to counter pick in this game, you don't always know what you're trying to counter in the first place. Is the engineer on the other team going to be a bursty holosmith or a tanky scrapper? Is that mesmer a mirage or a chronomancer? Is the thief a deadeye or a daredevil, and if they're a deadeye are they running rifle or p/p? Hell, it's hard to swap characters to round out your own team comp for the same reason; you don't have enough time to ask everyone on your team what they're running, theorycraft around that, then either change out your own build or switch characters (or both) in order to better work with your teammates' builds. Counterpicking in a MOBA is based on skill, knowledge, and pick order. Basically, you can either choose first and get the better characters, or choose later and counter pick; both options give advantages and disadvantages. In GW2, counterpicking relies on having a fast computer/connection and luck.

[Vertep.2498]

@Crinn.7864 said:Writes thread title about condi damage.

Ends up complaining exclusively about scourge.

because there is no any other class comparable with condi burst aoe than scourge, even if another class can got that high condi burst its mainly just for 1 target, not for 5 in big aoe like scourge and this class is the best example to this "condi creep"

[P Fun Daddy.1208]

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

In actual competitive MOBAs, there's also a pick/ban phase, so I'm not sure what your point is.

[kKagari.6804]

@P Fun Daddy.1208 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

In actual competitive MOBAs, there's also a pick/ban phase, so I'm not sure what your point is.

That you should switch characters based on your team and the enemy teams composition, prior to the match beginning. It is a valid strategy.

[P Fun Daddy.1208]

@kKagari.6804 said:

@P Fun Daddy.1208 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

In actual competitive MOBAs, there's also a pick/ban phase, so I'm not sure what your point is.

That you should switch characters based on your team and the enemy teams composition, prior to the match beginning. It is a valid strategy.

So long as a genuine pick/ban phase doesn't exist this is a band-aid on a gaping wound, and a clunky one at that.

[kKagari.6804]

@P Fun Daddy.1208 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:

@P Fun Daddy.1208 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

In actual competitive MOBAs, there's also a pick/ban phase, so I'm not sure what your point is.

That you should switch characters based on your team and the enemy teams composition, prior to the match beginning. It is a valid strategy.

So long as a genuine pick/ban phase doesn't exist this is a band-aid on a gaping wound, and a clunky one at that.

Never said it was a pretty solution, but what Reaper Alim said is correct, if you choose not to counter-pick, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage.

[P Fun Daddy.1208]

@kKagari.6804 said:

@P Fun Daddy.1208 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:

@P Fun Daddy.1208 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

In actual competitive MOBAs, there's also a pick/ban phase, so I'm not sure what your point is.

That you should switch characters based on your team and the enemy teams composition, prior to the match beginning. It is a valid strategy.

So long as a genuine pick/ban phase doesn't exist this is a band-aid on a gaping wound, and a clunky one at that.

Never said it was a pretty solution, but what Reaper Alim said is correct, if you choose not to counter-pick, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Technically speaking you're putting yourself at a disadvantage by running anything other than: 1 thief (possibly a mesmer), 2 spellbreakers, and two scourges. There's pretty much no counterpicking that, unless you feel like dropping the thief in pre-match for another spellbreaker/scourge (I'd like to think I'm joking but to be honest I'm pretty sure nothing could force a mix of scourges and spellbreakers off a point long enough to cap it), since an unfortunate side effect of the ability to switch characters in permatch is that you can heavily stack classes.

It's sort of hard to counterpick when anything that counters one of the meta builds is hard countered by the other, and both are run in nearly every game.

[kKagari.6804]

@P Fun Daddy.1208 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:

@P Fun Daddy.1208 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:

@P Fun Daddy.1208 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

In actual competitive MOBAs, there's also a pick/ban phase, so I'm not sure what your point is.

That you should switch characters based on your team and the enemy teams composition, prior to the match beginning. It is a valid strategy.

So long as a genuine pick/ban phase doesn't exist this is a band-aid on a gaping wound, and a clunky one at that.

Never said it was a pretty solution, but what Reaper Alim said is correct, if you choose not to counter-pick, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Technically speaking you're putting yourself at a disadvantage by running anything other than: 1 thief (possibly a mesmer), 2 spellbreakers, and two scourges. There's pretty much no counterpicking that, unless you feel like dropping the thief in pre-match for another spellbreaker/scourge (I'd like to think I'm joking but to be honest I'm pretty sure nothing could force a mix of scourges and spellbreakers off a point long enough to cap it), since an unfortunate side effect of the ability to switch characters in permatch is that you can heavily stack classes.

It's sort of hard to counterpick when anything that counters one of the meta builds is hard countered by the other, and both are run in nearly every game.

I've been running bunker FB since PoF and its been doing well against 4 of the 5 enemies you suggested above. I can at least rely on the rest of my teammates to fend off the thief for me. I switch between two FB builds based on the enemy team composition.

[Aza.2105]

The people defending scourge should be ashamed. Its really saddening that you have players defending a spec that developers said is broken. You die faster to conditions from scourge than burst damage....and that isn't a problem? The solution is to counter pick? Really? Look, pvp is totally broken right now. I mean nearly everything: Boon up time, blocks, passive procs, conditions, damage, its all out of control. There is really no defending it. If anything every pvper should be rallying on the forums to express their discontent with Anet's balancing team and how they did not give one flying fuck about pvp players. By dropping new and broken specializations right into the middle of season pvp. They didn't even give a poll to ask what we thought, because they did not care. Think about it.

[Swagg.9236]

@kKagari.6804 said:

@P Fun Daddy.1208 said:

@"Reaper Alim.4176" said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

In actual competitive MOBAs, there's also a pick/ban phase, so I'm not sure what your point is.

That you should switch characters based on your team and the enemy teams composition, prior to the match beginning. It is a valid strategy.

Gw2 is so borked that any class could be a number of things (even if some of those things aren't usually viable). At least in DoTA, it's possible to know exactly what a character is capable of at a glance. Gw2 will never tell you until a player starts spamming. Your point would be just slightly more valid if we could see each other's amulet choice and if a player's "profession icon" in the score panel actually reflected that player's espec choice.

Even if we had both of those things, though, the pre-game would just turn into this hectic, guessing game meme-fest of bait and switches. DoTA's pick ban choices are final in order to prevent that sort of a clown circus.

[Razor.6392]

@Vertep.2498 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:Writes thread title about condi damage.

Ends up complaining exclusively about scourge.

because there is no any other class comparable with condi burst aoe than scourge, even if another class can got that high condi burst its mainly just for 1 target, not for 5 in big aoe like scourge and this class is the best example to this "condi creep"

Firebrand is pretty bad tbh, even if its not as aoe-heavy as scourge. If he catches you with no cleanses ready or you're slow on reactions, enjoy that 10k damage lost in 2 seconds from 10 burn stacks.

[Kaga.7629]

@Aza.2105 said:Look, pvp is totally broken right now. I mean nearly everything: Boon up time, blocks, passive procs, conditions, damage, its all out of control. There is really no defending it. If anything every pvper should be rallying on the forums to express their discontent with Anet's balancing team and how they did not give one flying kitten about pvp players

Oh we've been doing that for a while. Season HATE is thankfully over, and what a shitshow that was.

To look forward to : season NEIN where balance is still probably gonna be....a big pile of doodoo . All hail the glorious upcoming season NEIN!

[zinkz.7045]

@"Reaper Alim.4176" said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

Not really, firstly MOBAs are very different games, they have zillions of champs/heroes and people don't have a main (they often have a role they main instead), where as there are only 9 classes in this game and it is common for people in MMORPGs to have a "main", so really the entire notion of swapping to whatever class at a whim is a case of trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole with the MMORPG playerbase.

Secondly MOBAs have a degree of balance that is on another level to the joke that is GW2, so switching to a counter works to a much higher extent, than GW2 where much of the time you simply have certain classes that are so broken OP the only real solution is to also have those classes on your team, I mean I watched some "pro" players on Twitch this week, and when they get a team with no sb and no scrouuge, there is no talk about coutner comp, it is only will someone on their team swtich to these broken arse classes.

Which brings me on to the last point, if you want to compare to MOBAs then the reality is Scrouge and Spellbreaker would never get played because they would always be taken out in the ban phase. (you also can't stack heroes/champs in most MOBAs, which is yet another issue with GW2, despite the fact they recognized that it was an issue when it came to the tournies they used to hold)

[Cynz.9437]

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

In MOBA:

• you don't fight around small circles
• you can ban broken/too strong champions
• you have gazzilion champions which all have about 4-7 abilities tops

GW2 is completely different. There are very few classes with a lot of skills that require some time investment to learn them. PvP is based around holding small circles. You cannot ban some classes from match. If there is only one viable composition atm (see 1 thief, 2 spellbreakers and two scourges) then it is a sign of very very very terrible class balance or rather lack of it. Even HoT with all it's issues had more variety and it speaks volumes.

[Cosminion.5042]

100% agree. PvP is out of control, not just with conditions, but with damage, utilities, knockbacks, pretty much everything is overtuned. They need to scale back EVERYTHING. You literally die in one-two seconds if you stand still doing nothing.

[Magnito.6187]

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

The counters are clear? Lol.

[otto.5684]

@Razor.6392 said:

@Vertep.2498 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:Writes thread title about condi damage.

Ends up complaining exclusively about scourge.

because there is no any other class comparable with condi burst aoe than scourge, even if another class can got that high condi burst its mainly just for 1 target, not for 5 in big aoe like scourge and this class is the best example to this "condi creep"

Firebrand is pretty bad tbh, even if its not as aoe-heavy as scourge. If he catches you with no cleanses ready or you're slow on reactions, enjoy that 10k damage lost in 2 seconds from 10 burn stacks.

Core burn guardian can already do that, with probably better survivability. And who does not run multiple condi cleanse nowadays anyway.

It is not a viable build.

[Greyrebel.7492]

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

it seems like u havnt played any moba games , or else you would realize how ridiculous that comparison is .

some people say that we must play counter classes .... so it means every single none necro must play a necro counter just cause ?oh yes everything is fixed now , nexro isnt op COZ ! u can counter pick , there is the solution and the answer so nexro is totaly fine ( and other condi damages ) i mean coz u can counter ....ok anet can u please add a totaly normal spell to my class in game wich deals 100000 damage every 5 sec to any1 near me and it should ofc be totaly fine coz u can counter it by Aegis and idk dodging or make my damage 1000% more coz ofc u can counter it by not leting me damage u and kill me , the counter isnt a solution , its just limiting peoples playstyle and make the pvp boring like hell and there r people like me who wouldnt even agree to be forced to play a build i dont want and i dont enjoy coz its counter , id rather leave pvp , im sure if i was be able to be forced to play another class/ or build i wouldnt be posting this thread coz id play necro.anet its not rocket science just reduce the duration or the amount of condi they apply til it balances with other classes, im not saying pvp will be heavenly balanced by these ( btw it never happens ) but ! we can enjoy not having a super godly op classes :D

[Hana.8143]

@Greyrebel.7492 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

it seems like u havnt played any moba games , or else you would realize how ridiculous that comparison is .

some people say that we must play counter classes .... so it means every single none necro must play a necro counter just cause ?oh yes everything is fixed now , nexro isnt op COZ ! u can counter pick , there is the solution and the answer so nexro is totaly fine ( and other condi damages ) i mean coz u can counter ....

ok anet can u please add a totaly normal spell to my class in game wich deals 100000 damage every 5 sec to any1 near me

and it should ofc be totaly fine coz u can counter it by Aegis and idk dodging or make my damage 1000% more coz ofc u can counter it by not leting me damage u and kill me , the counter isnt a solution , its just limiting peoples playstyle and make the pvp boring like hell and there r people like me who wouldnt even agree to be forced to play a build i dont want and i dont enjoy coz its counter , id rather leave pvp , im sure if i was be able to be forced to play another class/ or build i wouldnt be posting this thread coz id play necro.anet its not rocket science just reduce the duration or the amount of condi they apply til it balances with other classes, im not saying pvp will be heavenly balanced by these ( btw it never happens ) but ! we can enjoy not having a super godly op classes :D

Are you actually high ?Well I get your point, but stop asking that kind of thing, Anet could implement it ingame...

Btw, when GW2 started, it was much more fun, and the balance (because there was not so many specs) was fine, not perfect, just fine.Now it's just a p2w, want to win ? Buy PoF, and get an awesome spellbreaker AKA GOD ITSELF, get a mirage which can litteraly cross the map in a sec, better than a thief, buy PoF and your reaper will be transformed into a GOD OF CONTIONS AND BARRIERS.

Now it's just too late, since HoT, most people just want to play broken things. It's like a kid, if you take his toy, he'll cry.Gw2 PvP players and WvW players are the same. Nerf a broken spec, and they'll cry. (Man, they should really try something else and see how good spellbreakers scourges holosmiths or mirage are, compared to the others. It's common sense. I mean, the new ranger spec has so many bug, the weaver sword has no dps and have bugs too (wait, I didn't ask for a double attune to water, wtf ?), the rev is nowhere to be find, things like that, ya know ?)

That's how you sell a game, add brainless specs, and watch the money instead of the forums where people who care about the game complain about how irrelevants are the old specs / core build compared to the new specs.

I mean, they're just focusing on the real content, PvE, who cares about PvP or WvW.

Can I blame the balance team ? Please.

[Greyrebel.7492]

@Hana.8143 said:

@Greyrebel.7492 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Well in actually competitive MOBAs and such. If your team choose not to counter pick. Yall just lose and get laughed at. The counters here are clear. Just play any of the counters to scourge and you'll be in a much better position at the start.

it seems like u havnt played any moba games , or else you would realize how ridiculous that comparison is .

some people say that we must play counter classes .... so it means every single none necro must play a necro counter just cause ?oh yes everything is fixed now , nexro isnt op COZ ! u can counter pick , there is the solution and the answer so nexro is totaly fine ( and other condi damages ) i mean coz u can counter ....

ok anet can u please add a totaly normal spell to my class in game wich deals 100000 damage every 5 sec to any1 near me

and it should ofc be totaly fine coz u can counter it by Aegis and idk dodging or make my damage 1000% more coz ofc u can counter it by not leting me damage u and kill me , the counter isnt a solution , its just limiting peoples playstyle and make the pvp boring like hell and there r people like me who wouldnt even agree to be forced to play a build i dont want and i dont enjoy coz its counter , id rather leave pvp , im sure if i was be able to be forced to play another class/ or build i wouldnt be posting this thread coz id play necro.anet its not rocket science just reduce the duration or the amount of condi they apply til it balances with other classes, im not saying pvp will be heavenly balanced by these ( btw it never happens ) but ! we can enjoy not having a super godly op classes :D

Are you actually high ?Well I get your point, but stop asking that kind of thing, Anet could implement it ingame...

Btw, when GW2 started, it was much more fun, and the balance (because there was not som many specs) was fine, not perfect, just fine.Now it's just a p2w, wan't to win ? Buy PoF, and get an awesome spellbreaker AKA GOD ITSELF, get a mirage which can litteraly cross the map in a sec, buy PoF and your reaper will be transformed into a GOD OF CONTIONS.

That's how you sell a game, add brainless specs people can enjoy, and watch the money instead of the forums where people who care about the game complain about how irrelevant are the old specs / core build compared to the new specs.

I mean, they're just focusing on the real content, PvE, who cares about PvP or WvW.

i strongly disagree with u ! in other games if u dont have the expansion u wone even be able to play pvp ( in high levels and ranks )and b2w ???? seriously ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????playing mmos for aloooooong time and the only game , onlyyyyyyy i can say isnt buy2win is gw2 , the pvp even scales ur level..... look at the new spects as new classes ...about power of new spects its normal in mmos its to atract people to those classes and encourage them to try it out and try new stuff , i know top players who play core classes and they r as good as exp classes ! and every 2 years asking for buy a 25 $ exp is realy much ?

[Sifu.9745]

Funny thing is that Scourge is the only condi class left, other condi professions are very weak, while Scourge is op as hell.Conclusion: nerf Scourge, buff ALL other condi specs pls.