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Has there been any news on upcoming balance?


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Has anything been said from CMC or others at anet? I know they rarely say anything, but this balance is arguably the worst its been in years, and not a lot has changed since February. The meta is still full of builds that are horrible to play and play against, but they seem to think everything is fine just because there is some diversity?

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There's VERY LITTLE diversity.

Team comp:

  • Thief(daredevil d/p, condi p/d) roamer. No other class can replace this.
  • Tempest support. No other class can replace this.
  • Holosmith/Reaper/Sevenshot meme renegade/Scrapper/Power Herald Team fighters, 1v1ers, duelists, AND sidenoders.

So the diversity is do you play holo or scrapper eng, and do you play renegade or herald rev :^)

The issue is rev. eng, and reaper all are too good at too many things with no weaknesses and can fill multiple roles at once. Also thief is just busted beyond belief and shock aura + glyph have ZERO counterplay.

Then you have these classes:

  • Warrior - Can't team fight, loses to THIEF 1v1 so utterly useless as a sidenoder, loses to everything else 1v1.
  • Mesmer - Plasma dispensers to thieves, the strongest class in the game, so actively griefs your team by playing this class.

Yes, it seems like CMC isn't even working on the game? It's been so long since the last patch and that fixed ZERO issues. We need more balance patches, fast. People don't want to be in this meta until cantha...

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

Yes, it seems like CMC isn't even working on the game? It's been so long since the last patch and that fixed ZERO issues. We need more balance patches, fast. People don't want to be in this meta until cantha...

To me it seems like he is working on the new expansion and only has so much time left for the balance of the current game

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"Moving forward with competitive balance, we want to make smaller adjustments more often. The specific cadence for balance will always depend on our overall release schedule, but ideally it will be closer to every 4-6 weeks, while still having the opportunity to make minor tweaks outside of the regular balance update. The goal here is to have better flexibility to fix problems in a timely manner." - CMC 01/31/2020

Are you feeling it now Mr. Krabs? Are you feeling it?

216 Days of bad balance and counting.

I'd rather have Ben "SoonTM" Polywondganaland back

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More diversity is key to rebuilding the pvp playerbase. F2p players trying out pvp and being able to be successful is a big factor on whether to keep playing the game.

The meta has gone stale and overtuned builds prevent other builds from becoming meta or at least that can be played competitively. Biggest offenders being holo who can consistently auto.attack with grenades for 3k a hit. Tempest has too many ways to mitigate damage. Small shaves like reduce aura duration to 3s and swirling winds to 5s would go a long way

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@FrownyClown.8402 said:Small shaves like reduce aura duration to 3s and swirling winds to 5s would go a long way

No, that literally does nothing but butcher DPS ele specs even further and is nearly irrelevant for healer tempest. The issue with tempest is SHARED shock aura(WATER - healer trait that a DPS tempest wouldn't take) and GLYPH OF RENEWAL which is also something a DPS tempest wouldn't take.

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They are on a table, somewhere with the intern they left to try and figure this mess out. Likely we will see rev obliterated from orbit; Which means guardian will be the only heavy worth having which kind of already is the case. Necromancer will someone get buffered from their nerf, and everything else will be left as is because warrior is no longer an issue and as such the game is finally balanced just as CMC wants it.

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CMC: "We don't always make good balance, it's okay; maybe we'll do better nextime :^)" (to bad "next time" is so insanely long and far off, and odds are no. You wont do better next time.)Also CMC: "We could make true balance but then it wouldn't be fun".

What we have now already isn't fun, optimal play is skewed so heavily towards certain builds meaning less people can even attempt to have fun with their mains. I'd prefer it be "not fun" (or so you say, we don't actually have evidence of a truly balanced GW2 experience.) and more people be able to participate with what they want to play, rather than this. At the VERY LEAST; starting with true balance as a baseline then diverging to create more interesting interplay would be a better over all experience than what we have now, and could even draw in and retain players.

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Small shaves like reduce aura duration to 3s and swirling winds to 5s would go a long way

No, that literally does nothing but butcher DPS ele specs even further and is nearly irrelevant for healer tempest. The issue with tempest is SHARED shock aura(WATER - healer trait that a DPS tempest wouldn't take) and GLYPH OF RENEWAL which is also something a DPS tempest wouldn't take.

I respectfully disagree. Shared shocking aura has never been a problem until this meta formed. Shared stability would easily fix this problem but they put everything on a 60s cooldown. Most people would rather take a low cooldown stunbreak. Counters to shocking aura clearly exist within the game, but is not utilized because the professions or builds that make use of shared stability are not good enough to be considered meta. You can't counter a reflect or projectile block other than to not attack. Tempest would get pooped on by lb ranger if their projectile defense wasn't so over-tuned. Reducing the uptime on auras will affect dps ele very little. Weaver makes no use of it. Core d/d would maybe be affected most by shocking aura but its 1 second less. DPS tempest spams air overload so the uptime is already very high. I could be wrong about all of this, but at least I am not complaining about any change that could affect dps ele without looking at the real reason dps ele doesn't work in the first place.

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@"Shiyo.3578" said:There's VERY LITTLE diversity.

This meta is actually the least diverse meta we've ever seen.

There are only 4 classes/builds that are considered meta right now:

  1. DP Thief
  2. Tempest
  3. Reaper
  4. Holosmith

Really though, that's actually happening. Even Herald has fallen out due to how much passive CC is rolling off team fights with Tempests & Holosmiths, and the small amount of stability that Herald gets isn't enough to deal with the CC meta being driven by shocking aura share and flashbang. Essentially what we have happening is a meta that is gated by how much CC & Stability a class/build has access to while still remaining viable in combat. DP Thief is the only exception to that for obvious reasons.

See for yourselves -> https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

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@"Daishi.6027" said:CMC: "We don't always make good balance, it's okay; maybe we'll do better nextime :^)" (to bad "next time" is so insanely long and far off, and odds are no. You wont do better next time.)Also CMC: "We could make true balance but then it wouldn't be fun".

What we have now already isn't fun, optimal play is skewed so heavily towards certain builds meaning less people can even attempt to have fun with their mains.

They actually cannot do "true balance" because of the way class mechanics work. So I don't know what they are talking about when they say all they can do is tweak numbers and cooldowns.

Hey balance team, numbers me some teleport and stealth for my Warrior will ya?

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@Bazsi.2734 said:

@"Widmo.3186" said:For all those folks that really thought cmc knows what hes doing and gonna do something useful
9MvqknH.jpg

I'm pretty sure he knows what he wants to do, and I'm also pretty sure what we see in these updates do not reflect that since march. All the skill updates removing combo finishers/combofields and adding new passive traits were not his ideas(I'm just baseing this on him saying that he wants the opposite, if I'm wrong this game is done for). He's clearly not in control.

MMO-s have a life cycle about 2-4 years, which generally can only be restarted with new expansions. PoF was way past 2 years of age when they started this rework, do they not care that time is running out? This company has some weird inner workings, from the outside it honestly looks like chaos.

I mean at this point that's just making excuses for CMC, Widmo hit the nail right on the head. The faster balance and smaller patches were pretty much a lie, and now you got left with all the bad changes as usual. It's also dumb because people striving for de-powered nerf everything balance are going to get kicked in the face, when the next set of E-specs rolls in. Two things will happen. 1: E-specs are going to be borke for w.e reason and people will cry for nerfs, 2: E-Specs are going to feel like trash and people are going to cry for buffs, and then we go in another merry-go-round back and forth balancing.

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I was still new to PvP in the pre Feb Patch era. It wasn't fun being one shot constantly, but at least ele was fun. You had multiple viable weaver builds to choose from, and auramancer tempest, while technically overshadowed by firebrand at the time, had its place on certain comps. In fact it actually took advantage of firebrand being meta and would pair nicely alongside a firebrand to form a strong teamighting combination.

Many nerfs later and ele isn't as enjoyable. Sword was neutered in the feb patch. Staff is still terribad (Meteor shower and lava font should have their nerfs reverted in all game modes) Aurashare tempest is doing well at the moment, but with cries to gut that too, I reckon it's not long before that gets sent into the gutter.

Ele isn't doing too hot in PvE either. You'd rather have a Warrior, Guard, Rev, Ranger, or Mesmer.

If the devs want to "reduce power creep" that's fine, but there is a time and place to bring up elements that are clearly performing below the current standards.

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@"Kuma.1503" said:I was still new to PvP in the pre Feb Patch era. It wasn't fun being one shot constantly, but at least ele was fun. You had multiple viable weaver builds to choose from, and auramancer tempest, while technically overshadowed by firebrand at the time, had its place on certain comps. In fact it actually took advantage of firebrand being meta and would pair nicely alongside a firebrand to form a strong teamighting combination.

Many nerfs later and ele isn't as enjoyable. Sword was neutered in the feb patch. Staff is still terribad (Meteor shower and lava font should have their nerfs reverted in all game modes) Aurashare tempest is doing well at the moment, but with cries to gut that too, I reckon it's not long before that gets sent into the gutter.

Ele isn't doing too hot in PvE either. You'd rather have a Warrior, Guard, Rev, Ranger, or Mesmer.

If the devs want to "reduce power creep" that's fine, but there is a time and place to bring up elements that are clearly performing below the current standards.

Let me say one thing as a guy that plays (or rather played) this game for 8 years, also as ele main - switch class.Noone, literally no-one in whole dev team knows what to do with ele. In the whole history of 'balancing', ele in 99% of cases was receiving nerfs or weird adjusts. People that likes to play this class pray everytime new patch is about to happen that they wont see "Elementalist" word in notes, no matter if ele is atm in meta or not. Because whether devs wants to buff it or nerf it, they just make it worse.

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@FrownyClown.8402 said:

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Small shaves like reduce aura duration to 3s and swirling winds to 5s would go a long way

No, that literally does nothing but butcher DPS ele specs even further and is nearly irrelevant for healer tempest. The issue with tempest is SHARED shock aura(WATER - healer trait that a DPS tempest wouldn't take) and GLYPH OF RENEWAL which is also something a DPS tempest wouldn't take.

I respectfully disagree. Shared shocking aura has never been a problem until this meta formed. Shared stability would easily fix this problem but they put everything on a 60s cooldown. Most people would rather take a low cooldown stunbreak. Counters to shocking aura clearly exist within the game, but is not utilized because the professions or builds that make use of shared stability are not good enough to be considered meta. You can't counter a reflect or projectile block other than to not attack. Tempest would get pooped on by lb ranger if their projectile defense wasn't so over-tuned. Reducing the uptime on auras will affect dps ele very little. Weaver makes no use of it. Core d/d would maybe be affected most by shocking aura but its 1 second less. DPS tempest spams air overload so the uptime is already very high. I could be wrong about all of this, but at least I am not complaining about any change that could affect dps ele without looking at the real reason dps ele doesn't work in the first place.

The issue with the new shocking aura abomination is: Support tempests used to have no other option to cleanse than the other water grandmaster trait, cleanse on regeneration. Now, since they can drop earth and get great AoE cleanses on auras with fire, they could switch to aura share. Yes, hate me, fellow eles, but the cleanses added to fire made ele much more imbalanced as a whole - fire weaver was another abomination caused by this exact thing. The issue was not the damage, the issue was the strong defense coupled with it. They nerfed the damage...

For support tempest they need to nerf the fire traitline (make it more egoistic for example) or make earth viable (someone suggested offensive boon hate). Guess they will nerf water (just plain nerf the aura share duration). :lol:

Which would still be better than shocking aura nerfs, because it is desperately needed for other builds...

€: Also /signed @Widmo.3186. :smirk:

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:There's VERY LITTLE diversity.

This meta is actually the least diverse meta we've ever seen.

There are only 4 classes/builds that are considered meta right now:
  1. DP Thief
  2. Tempest
  3. Reaper
  4. Holosmith

Really though, that's actually happening. Even Herald has fallen out due to how much passive CC is rolling off team fights with Tempests & Holosmiths, and the small amount of stability that Herald gets isn't enough to deal with the CC meta being driven by shocking aura share and flashbang. Essentially what we have happening is a meta that is gated by how much CC & Stability a class/build has access to while still remaining viable in combat. DP Thief is the only exception to that for obvious reasons.

See for yourselves ->

Since when is metabattle, a page edited by a few PvE players, considered to reflect the actual state of the game / meta? It's like quoting an article on wikipedia as a reliable source.

There are much more builds that are more or less on the same level in the current meta, with the exception of holo and in some ways tempest, who are outliers.

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