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""The next major story arc that will be happening will be taking place in Cantha, for Winds of Change. This is going to be a pretty big tale, that helps set the stage for some of the events to come- important history by the time of Guild Wars 2, which is some 250 years in the future. Additionally, players will also see some new content going into the game for Wintersday, and there'll be our planned feature build that we'll talk about some more as we get closer to its release!""

This was in reference to Guild Wars Beyond. So whatever the tale is is probably the same one. Another quote mentioned the same, "things people will be surprised by."

In terms of being a big tale and setting the stage for events to come, that could really be anything but the fact that it's important now in Guild Wars 2 would make me think it's dragon related.

This seems like it's around the time life has started to return to Echovald and parts of the Jade Sea have supposedly been turning back. I'm not sure how much of it is truly relevant to the current story though. It seems like they already had the fractal together somewhat and repurposed it. So the fact that the peak is splintered and floating in the mists makes me think that it's not going to be immediately relevant.

Unless the Cantha we're going to is splintered floating rocks. Then again they also said that they wanted the fractal to feel like Cantha but not spoil the surprise of seeing it in the open world when the expansion releases. So, who knows really. It doesn't seem like it can be something that ACTUALLY happened but I suppose it could be something that happened in an alternate reality but still sheds light onto our current predicament?

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@Bast.7253 said:Unless the Cantha we're going to is splintered floating rocks. Then again they also said that they wanted the fractal to feel like Cantha but not spoil the surprise of seeing it in the open world when the expansion releases. So, who knows really. It doesn't seem like it can be something that ACTUALLY happened but I suppose it could be something that happened in an alternate reality but still sheds light onto our current predicament?

It is quite common for the fractals to be broken these days anyways. More due to how that fractal cannot properly form the entire land due to missing certain pieces about that spot's history.

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During the live stream too the host, Rubi Bayer, did specifically mention that the peak was fractured/floating because weird shit happens when locations/moments in history are pulled from the real world into the Mists.

Edit: They did mention the fractal was about quelling the elementals (water, wind, fire, maybe earth) on the mountain, so I doubt we'll see any Ministry or DSD minions (though something they did could be what caused the imbalance).

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@"Svennis.3852" said:During the live stream too the host, Rubi Bayer, did specifically mention that the peak was fractured/floating because weird kitten happens when locations/moments in history are pulled from the real world into the Mists.

Edit: They did mention the fractal was about quelling the elementals (water, wind, fire, maybe earth) on the mountain, so I doubt we'll see any Ministry or DSD minions (though something they did could be what caused the imbalance).

Maybe we will see the DSD minions in the water area of the fractal.

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:During the live stream too the host, Rubi Bayer, did specifically mention that the peak was fractured/floating because weird kitten happens when locations/moments in history are pulled from the real world into the Mists.

Edit: They did mention the fractal was about quelling the elementals (water, wind, fire, maybe earth) on the mountain, so I doubt we'll see any Ministry or DSD minions (though something they did could be what caused the imbalance).

Maybe we will see the DSD minions in the water area of the fractal.

I doubt this for three reasons:

  1. Time period; this is supposed to be when Cantha is "on the verge" of going isolationist, which means it happens years or maybe a couple decades after GW1's time. While the DSD is heavily hinted to be the second Elder Dragon to wake up, it woke up in the ocean depths; and even if we're just talking about some champion herald like the Great Destroyer, I feel like that's too great a thing to come out of nowhere pre-isolation.
  2. Fractal theme; as mentioned, the fractal theme is about "quelling the elements", and that's what all the other enemies are (elementals) except for the final boss, and among the elements mentioned is water. Dragon minions != elementals. Curiously enough, this game does not have any water elementals (or any elementals that are fought underwater either). So any 'water elemental' enemy would be brand new, and they may want to keep the brand new model a surprise for xyz reason.
  3. Location; the fractal is a mountain, in the dead center of Shing Jea Island. Odd place for dragon minions for the deep sea dragon to be - even if it is a fractal.
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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:During the live stream too the host, Rubi Bayer, did specifically mention that the peak was fractured/floating because weird kitten happens when locations/moments in history are pulled from the real world into the Mists.

Edit: They did mention the fractal was about quelling the elementals (water, wind, fire, maybe earth) on the mountain, so I doubt we'll see any Ministry or DSD minions (though something they did could be what caused the imbalance).

Maybe we will see the DSD minions in the water area of the fractal.

I doubt this for three reasons:
  1. Time period; this is supposed to be when Cantha is "on the verge" of going isolationist, which means it happens years or maybe a couple decades after GW1's time. While the DSD is heavily hinted to be the second Elder Dragon to wake up, it woke up in the ocean depths; and even if we're just talking about some champion herald like the Great Destroyer, I feel like that's too great a thing to come out of nowhere pre-isolation.
  2. Fractal theme; as mentioned, the fractal theme is about "quelling the elements", and that's what all the other enemies are (elementals) except for the final boss, and among the elements mentioned is water. Dragon minions != elementals. Curiously enough, this game does not have any water elementals (or any elementals that are fought underwater either). So any 'water elemental' enemy would be brand new, and they may want to keep the brand new model a surprise for xyz reason.
  3. Location; the fractal is a mountain, in the dead center of Shing Jea Island. Odd place for dragon minions for the deep sea dragon to be - even if it is a fractal.

Still, it feels like they're really emphasizing the story for some reason and given the timing I would have to think it has something to do with the upcoming expansion. They've teased about this being "surprising" since they first mentioned Guild Wars Beyond, insisting that it would be important 250 years later. What would be important now, assuming it's the same "surprise" they're referencing?

And what would cause such an elemental imbalance?

I'm not insisting that it is the DSD or its minions that we will see in the Fractal, but I'm struggling to think of what would cause such an imbalance.

Also, the mountain is on an island. It's not like it's in the middle of the continent so it's not that farfetched.

I don't have any suggestions as to what it could be but I did find the appearance of the black-tinted elemental/orbs interesting in the teaser. If they are water elementals it's an odd choice to go with black. Unless it's some mechanic meant to be used within the fractal and inconsequential. Or it could be water elementals that have been corrupted/twisted by the DSD.

If we're just going solely based on what was happening during this time period I'm not sure what would be "surprising" if the only options are known. Surprising implies something we didn't know or didn't expect. (One could argue that many people are "expecting" DSD so it doesn't count as "surprising", but it would be if we only consider in-game lore.)

You're not throwing out any other suggestions.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:During the live stream too the host, Rubi Bayer, did specifically mention that the peak was fractured/floating because weird kitten happens when locations/moments in history are pulled from the real world into the Mists.

Edit: They did mention the fractal was about quelling the elementals (water, wind, fire, maybe earth) on the mountain, so I doubt we'll see any Ministry or DSD minions (though something they did could be what caused the imbalance).

Maybe we will see the DSD minions in the water area of the fractal.

I doubt this for three reasons:
  1. Time period; this is supposed to be when Cantha is "on the verge" of going isolationist, which means it happens years or maybe a couple decades after GW1's time. While the DSD is heavily hinted to be the second Elder Dragon to wake up, it woke up in the ocean depths; and even if we're just talking about some champion herald like the Great Destroyer, I feel like that's too great a thing to come out of nowhere pre-isolation.
  2. Fractal theme; as mentioned, the fractal theme is about "quelling the elements", and that's what all the other enemies are (elementals) except for the final boss, and among the elements mentioned is water. Dragon minions != elementals. Curiously enough, this game does not have any water elementals (or any elementals that are fought underwater either). So any 'water elemental' enemy would be brand new, and they may want to keep the brand new model a surprise for xyz reason.
  3. Location; the fractal is a mountain, in the dead center of Shing Jea Island. Odd place for dragon minions for the deep sea dragon to be - even if it is a fractal.

Well they did mention this regarding the DSD in the movement of the world:

“ In the deepest waters of the sea, another dragon breathed, twisting the waters themselves into tentacled horrors that rose from every lake and river of the land.”

So this could apply to Shing Jea if it’s close to the dragons awakening zone.

The DSD awakening also fits in the between Winds of Change and GW2.

Also seems like there is some sort of connection with the expansion too, don’t recall where this was mentioned guild chat maybe?

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:During the live stream too the host, Rubi Bayer, did specifically mention that the peak was fractured/floating because weird kitten happens when locations/moments in history are pulled from the real world into the Mists.

Edit: They did mention the fractal was about quelling the elementals (water, wind, fire, maybe earth) on the mountain, so I doubt we'll see any Ministry or DSD minions (though something they did could be what caused the imbalance).

Maybe we will see the DSD minions in the water area of the fractal.

I doubt this for three reasons:
  1. Time period; this is supposed to be when Cantha is "on the verge" of going isolationist, which means it happens years or maybe a couple decades after GW1's time. While the DSD is heavily hinted to be the second Elder Dragon to wake up, it woke up in the ocean depths; and even if we're just talking about some champion herald like the Great Destroyer, I feel like that's too great a thing to come out of nowhere pre-isolation.
  2. Fractal theme; as mentioned, the fractal theme is about "quelling the elements", and that's what all the other enemies are (elementals) except for the final boss, and among the elements mentioned is water. Dragon minions != elementals. Curiously enough, this game does not have any water elementals (or any elementals that are fought underwater either). So any 'water elemental' enemy would be brand new, and they may want to keep the brand new model a surprise for xyz reason.
  3. Location; the fractal is a mountain, in the dead center of Shing Jea Island. Odd place for dragon minions for the deep sea dragon to be - even if it is a fractal.

Who can really say at this point. We only know there maybe a hint to what threat awaits us in Cantha expansion in the fractal.

Though if it is related to the Elder Dragons or specifically the DSD, then I speculate it maybe information about the DSD and actions in a previous cycle. There have been countless cycles after all and with that countless changes to the planet over these cycles. We can't really say if a DSD been there or if a DSD minion remaind there for centuries through the countless cycles or not due to the nature of the planet's history involving the Elder Dragons.

Story wise, the Elder Dragon's have been properly contained within the current known area of the game being basically only 20% of the entire planet while the rest of the planet (and civilizations beyond our current region we have never known about such as the potential location that could have been Utopia in GW1) are probably completely unaware of the Elder Dragons due to never having any contact with the regions we current know about.

Speaking of which this does opening up potential future storylines for GW2 if they plan to end the Elder Dragon storyline in Cantha (and the LW after Cantha) for future expansions. With the Elder Dragon threat gone, the civilization we know about can finally begin making contact with civilizations beyond the current known regions but in doing so we also expose ourselves to a new threat for this new story arc. It will certainly be interesting what new civilizations and stories they bring into the table once the Elder Dragon Arc is over and the new ??? Arc begins.

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@"Bast.7253" said:Still, it feels like they're really emphasizing the story for some reason and given the timing I would have to think it has something to do with the upcoming expansion. They've teased about this being "surprising" since they first mentioned Guild Wars Beyond, insisting that it would be important 250 years later. What would be important now, assuming it's the same "surprise" they're referencing?

And what would cause such an elemental imbalance?

I'm not insisting that it is the DSD or its minions that we will see in the Fractal, but I'm struggling to think of what would cause such an imbalance.

Did they say that it was specifically the water area that is causing the imbalance? I didn't watch the full stream, but from my understanding, they never specified what's causing the elements' imbalance, but did strongly suggest that the water area is similar to the air and fire sections.

If we're just going solely based on what was happening during this time period I'm not sure what would be "surprising" if the only options are known. Surprising implies something we didn't know or didn't expect. (One could argue that many people are "expecting" DSD so it doesn't count as "surprising", but it would be if we only consider in-game lore.)

You're not throwing out any other suggestions.

Well, one thing I've come to learn about ANet and "surprises" is that whenever they promote some massive reveal, it is either a) coming out of literally nowhere or b) been speculated and suggested for months by the community to the point where it's anything but a surprise.

As such, I feel like the result will be either "water elementals" (if B ), or something brand new with no prior hints in the lore (if A).

@Tyson.5160 said:Well they did mention this regarding the DSD in the movement of the world:

“ In the deepest waters of the sea, another dragon breathed, twisting the waters themselves into tentacled horrors that rose from every lake and river of the land.”

So this could apply to Shing Jea if it’s close to the dragons awakening zone.

The DSD awakening also fits in the between Winds of Change and GW2.

Also seems like there is some sort of connection with the expansion too, don’t recall where this was mentioned guild chat maybe?

They did establish that this is a teaser for the expansion. But I felt that it's more a teaser because this is our first look at legit Canthan assets.

Ironically, they said that this is the first time we see Cantha in-game, but Solid Ocean Fractal is just as much in Cantha as this fractal, technically. It's just that this fractal was build in-mind with the expansion and its new art assets.

@EdwinLi.1284 said:Story wise, the Elder Dragon's have been properly contained within the current known area of the game being basically only 20% of the entire planet while the rest of the planet (and civilizations beyond our current region we have never known about such as the potential location that could have been Utopia in GW1) are probably completely unaware of the Elder Dragons due to never having any contact with the regions we current know about.I don't got much to comment on your post, but just one small correction: Utopia was to take place in the Mists, not in the world of Tyria.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Bast.7253" said:Still, it feels like they're really emphasizing the story for some reason and given the timing I would have to think it has something to do with the upcoming expansion. They've teased about this being "surprising" since they first mentioned Guild Wars Beyond, insisting that it would be important 250 years later. What would be important now, assuming it's the same "surprise" they're referencing?

And what would cause such an elemental imbalance?

I'm not insisting that it is the DSD or its minions that we will see in the Fractal, but I'm struggling to think of what would cause such an imbalance.

Did they say that it was specifically the water area that is causing the imbalance? I didn't watch the full stream, but from my understanding, they never specified what's causing the elements' imbalance, but did strongly suggest that the water area is similar to the air and fire sections.

If we're just going solely based on what was happening during this time period I'm not sure what would be "surprising" if the only options are known. Surprising implies something we didn't know or didn't expect. (One could argue that many people are "expecting" DSD so it doesn't count as "surprising", but it would be if we only consider in-game lore.)

You're not throwing out any other suggestions.

Well, one thing I've come to learn about ANet and "surprises" is that whenever they promote some massive reveal, it is either a) coming out of literally nowhere or b) been speculated and suggested for months by the community to the point where it's anything but a surprise.

As such, I feel like the result will be either "water elementals" (if B ), or something brand new with no prior hints in the lore (if A).

@Tyson.5160 said:Well they did mention this regarding the DSD in the movement of the world:

“ In the deepest waters of the sea, another dragon breathed, twisting the waters themselves into tentacled horrors that rose from every lake and river of the land.”

So this could apply to Shing Jea if it’s close to the dragons awakening zone.

The DSD awakening also fits in the between Winds of Change and GW2.

Also seems like there is some sort of connection with the expansion too, don’t recall where this was mentioned guild chat maybe?

They did establish that this is a teaser for the expansion. But I felt that it's more a teaser because this is our first look at legit Canthan assets.

Ironically, they said that this is the first time we see Cantha in-game, but Solid Ocean Fractal is just as much in Cantha as this fractal, technically. It's just that this fractal was build in-mind with the expansion and its new art assets.

@EdwinLi.1284 said:Story wise, the Elder Dragon's have been properly contained within the current known area of the game being basically only 20% of the entire planet while the rest of the planet (and civilizations beyond our current region we have never known about such as the potential location that could have been Utopia in GW1) are probably completely unaware of the Elder Dragons due to never having any contact with the regions we current know about.I don't got much to comment on your post, but just one small correction: Utopia was to take place in the Mists, not in the world of Tyria.

Having more of a chance to mull over some of this, I wonder if we will have a first look at corrupted water elementals from the DSD as a sort of sneak peak of the new dragon minions, something along the lines of the husks and thorn wolves during episode 1 of season 2. They could be corrupted, but the local people are not sure from what.

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@"Svennis.3852" said:Edit: They did mention the fractal was about quelling the elementals (water, wind, fire, maybe earth) on the mountain, so I doubt we'll see any Ministry or DSD minions (though something they did could be what caused the imbalance).

Water, earth, fire, air. The 4 elementals lived together in harmony, but everything changed when these random adventurers attacked

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@"Bast.7253" said:Still, it feels like they're really emphasizing the story for some reason and given the timing I would have to think it has something to do with the upcoming expansion. They've teased about this being "surprising" since they first mentioned Guild Wars Beyond, insisting that it would be important 250 years later. What would be important now, assuming it's the same "surprise" they're referencing?

And what would cause such an elemental imbalance?

I'm not insisting that it is the DSD or its minions that we will see in the Fractal, but I'm struggling to think of what would cause such an imbalance.

Did they say that it was specifically the water area that is causing the imbalance? I didn't watch the full stream, but from my understanding, they never specified what's causing the elements' imbalance, but did strongly suggest that the water area is similar to the air and fire sections.

If we're just going solely based on what was happening during this time period I'm not sure what would be "surprising" if the only options are known. Surprising implies something we didn't know or didn't expect. (One could argue that many people are "expecting" DSD so it doesn't count as "surprising", but it would be if we only consider in-game lore.)

You're not throwing out any other suggestions.

Well, one thing I've come to learn about ANet and "surprises" is that whenever they promote some massive reveal, it is either a) coming out of literally nowhere or b) been speculated and suggested for months by the community to the point where it's anything but a surprise.

As such, I feel like the result will be either "water elementals" (if B ), or something brand new with no prior hints in the lore (if A).

@Tyson.5160 said:Well they did mention this regarding the DSD in the movement of the world:

“ In the deepest waters of the sea, another dragon breathed, twisting the waters themselves into tentacled horrors that rose from every lake and river of the land.”

So this could apply to Shing Jea if it’s close to the dragons awakening zone.

The DSD awakening also fits in the between Winds of Change and GW2.

Also seems like there is some sort of connection with the expansion too, don’t recall where this was mentioned guild chat maybe?

They did establish that this is a teaser for the expansion. But I felt that it's more a teaser because this is our first look at legit Canthan assets.

Ironically, they said that this is the first time we see Cantha in-game, but Solid Ocean Fractal is just as much in Cantha as this fractal, technically. It's just that this fractal was build in-mind with the expansion and its new art assets.

@EdwinLi.1284 said:Story wise, the Elder Dragon's have been properly contained within the current known area of the game being basically only 20% of the entire planet while the rest of the planet (and civilizations beyond our current region we have never known about such as the potential location that could have been Utopia in GW1) are probably completely unaware of the Elder Dragons due to never having any contact with the regions we current know about.I don't got much to comment on your post, but just one small correction: Utopia was to take place in the Mists, not in the world of Tyria.

Having more of a chance to mull over some of this, I wonder if we will have a first look at corrupted water elementals from the DSD as a sort of sneak peak of the new dragon minions, something along the lines of the husks and thorn wolves during episode 1 of season 2. They could be corrupted, but the local people are not sure from what.

There’s also Dessa’s dialogue in the background. “Disembodied voices” and “I’m not gonna let you drown.”

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@EdwinLi.1284 said:Story wise, the Elder Dragon's have been properly contained within the current known area of the game being basically only 20% of the entire planet while the rest of the planet (and civilizations beyond our current region we have never known about such as the potential location that could have been Utopia in GW1) are probably completely unaware of the Elder Dragons due to never having any contact with the regions we current know about.I don't got much to comment on your post, but just one small correction: Utopia was to take place in the Mists, not in the world of Tyria.

A short summary of what I am talking about is that...

If the develoeprs do provide information about DSD in this fractal it may be more about DSD actions from a previous Elder Dragon Cycle and maybe a much older one at that.

Our current information and current events involving Elder Dragons have also been quite restricted to the current regions we know about and can play in as well which is only 20% of the entire planet. However, this can mostly be related to how the current Elder Dragon Cycle is still in the early stages when each Elder Dragon are trying to build their army first then expand into the other part of the world we have never explored before. Also, that constant conflict with Elder Dragons has isolated the current region we play in from the rest of the world thus preventing any expedition by the races into other regions of the world.

How the information about DSD maybe important, if they do provide information about DSD's past actions, we will just have to wait and see since we can't predict the Elder Dragon's actions in cycles beyond the last one and we have rarely expanded information about Elder Dragons into regions we could not explore yet.

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@Bast.7253 said:

@Bast.7253 said:Still, it feels like they're really emphasizing the story for some reason and given the timing I would have to think it has something to do with the upcoming expansion. They've teased about this being "surprising" since they first mentioned Guild Wars Beyond, insisting that it would be important 250 years later. What would be important now, assuming it's the same "surprise" they're referencing?

And what would cause such an elemental imbalance?

I'm not insisting that it is the DSD or its minions that we will see in the Fractal, but I'm struggling to think of what would cause such an imbalance.

Did they say that it was specifically the water area that is causing the imbalance? I didn't watch the full stream, but from my understanding, they never specified what's causing the elements' imbalance, but did strongly suggest that the water area is similar to the air and fire sections.

If we're just going solely based on what was happening during this time period I'm not sure what would be "surprising" if the only options are known. Surprising implies something we didn't know or didn't expect. (One could argue that many people are "expecting" DSD so it doesn't count as "surprising", but it would be if we only consider in-game lore.)

You're not throwing out any other suggestions.

Well, one thing I've come to learn about ANet and "surprises" is that whenever they promote some massive reveal, it is either a) coming out of literally nowhere or b) been speculated and suggested for months by the community to the point where it's anything but a surprise.

As such, I feel like the result will be either "water elementals" (if B ), or something brand new with no prior hints in the lore (if A).

@Tyson.5160 said:Well they did mention this regarding the DSD in the movement of the world:

“ In the deepest waters of the sea, another dragon breathed, twisting the waters themselves into tentacled horrors that rose from every lake and river of the land.”

So this could apply to Shing Jea if it’s close to the dragons awakening zone.

The DSD awakening also fits in the between Winds of Change and GW2.

Also seems like there is some sort of connection with the expansion too, don’t recall where this was mentioned guild chat maybe?

They did establish that this is a teaser for the expansion. But I felt that it's more a teaser because this is our first look at legit Canthan assets.

Ironically, they said that this is the first time we see Cantha in-game, but Solid Ocean Fractal is just as much in Cantha as this fractal, technically. It's just that this fractal was build in-mind with the expansion and its new art assets.

@EdwinLi.1284 said:Story wise, the Elder Dragon's have been properly contained within the current known area of the game being basically only 20% of the entire planet while the rest of the planet (and civilizations beyond our current region we have never known about such as the potential location that could have been Utopia in GW1) are probably completely unaware of the Elder Dragons due to never having any contact with the regions we current know about.I don't got much to comment on your post, but just one small correction: Utopia was to take place in the Mists, not in the world of Tyria.

Having more of a chance to mull over some of this, I wonder if we will have a first look at corrupted water elementals from the DSD as a sort of sneak peak of the new dragon minions, something along the lines of the husks and thorn wolves during episode 1 of season 2. They could be corrupted, but the local people are not sure from what.

There’s also Dessa’s dialogue in the background. “Disembodied voices” and “I’m not gonna let you drown.”

Yeah, it could be some foreshadowing of DSD minions. Could be putting the other elements out of balance.

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@Bast.7253 said:There’s also Dessa’s dialogue in the background. “Disembodied voices” and “I’m not gonna let you drown.”

Yeah, it could be some foreshadowing of DSD minions. Could be putting the other elements out of balance.

Disembodied voices that confuse and manipulate seems very Jormag. Do you think the devs would use the same schtick back to back?

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@"Svennis.3852" said:

@Bast.7253 said:There’s also Dessa’s dialogue in the background. “Disembodied voices” and “I’m not gonna let you drown.”

Yeah, it could be some foreshadowing of DSD minions. Could be putting the other elements out of balance.

Disembodied voices that confuse and manipulate seems very Jormag. Do you think the devs would use the same schtick back to back?

Psychological warfare was a constant strategy for these elder dragons that can communicate despite how they used it differs.

With such little knowledge of DSD, we can't say much about what the DSD can and cannot do just because a Elder Dragon we face now or defeated previously already done this before. The Elder Dragons that lived may learn and adopt strategies from the other Elder Dragons from previous Cycle conflicts with each other and even current events to remember what worked and what did not before they were defeated to prevent the same mistake the others have made.

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@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:

@Bast.7253 said:There’s also Dessa’s dialogue in the background. “Disembodied voices” and “I’m not gonna let you drown.”

Yeah, it could be some foreshadowing of DSD minions. Could be putting the other elements out of balance.

Disembodied voices that confuse and manipulate seems very Jormag. Do you think the devs would use the same schtick back to back?

Psychological warfare was a constant strategy for these elder dragons that can communicate despite how they used it differs.

With such little knowledge of DSD, we can't say much about what the DSD can and cannot do just because a Elder Dragon we face now or defeated previously already done this before. The Elder Dragons that lived may learn and adopt strategies from the other Elder Dragons from previous Cycle conflicts and even current events.

I am thinking more from a writing perspective, doing the same gimmick back to back seems tacky to me. If Jormag is a master manipulator, I'd rather the DSD have a different gimmick.

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@"Svennis.3852" said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:

@Bast.7253 said:There’s also Dessa’s dialogue in the background. “Disembodied voices” and “I’m not gonna let you drown.”

Yeah, it could be some foreshadowing of DSD minions. Could be putting the other elements out of balance.

Disembodied voices that confuse and manipulate seems very Jormag. Do you think the devs would use the same schtick back to back?

Psychological warfare was a constant strategy for these elder dragons that can communicate despite how they used it differs.

With such little knowledge of DSD, we can't say much about what the DSD can and cannot do just because a Elder Dragon we face now or defeated previously already done this before. The Elder Dragons that lived may learn and adopt strategies from the other Elder Dragons from previous Cycle conflicts and even current events.

I am thinking more from a writing perspective, doing the same gimmick back to back seems tacky to me. If Jormag is a master manipulator, I'd rather the DSD have a different gimmick.

Well some are speculating that DSD maybe the Dragon of Nightmares due to the darkness of the deep ocean sometimes represents the horrors that may be alive in the deep darkness of the ocean which will still involve manipulation through the fear of the unknown. Fear for the unknown is a monster in itself ripe for manipulation.

In a way Fear of the Unknown and offer of protection are never too far from each other.

Jormag has always been about giving people what they want and offering that Ice will protect them from harm. It is a manipulation by offering comfort towards the people she seeks to corrupt. Though in Ryland's case he was already ripe for corruption since deep down he already seeks comfort in something when he feels everything and everyone keeps betraying him.

If DSD is about Nightmares then the manipulation is about festering the fear of others. Fear is a monster that can drive people to do horrible things and sometimes people go to extreme lengths to remove that fear.

In a way fear for the unknown is a rather fitting theme for Cantha if DSD is involved. Being only recently open from isolationism with their exposure to the lands beyond being mostly from the Zephyrites, there is bound to be fear among the natives to Cantha. Some may even seek to respark isolationism politices due to that fear while others may go to extreme methods because of fear for the unknown.

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@"Svennis.3852" said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:

@Bast.7253 said:There’s also Dessa’s dialogue in the background. “Disembodied voices” and “I’m not gonna let you drown.”

Yeah, it could be some foreshadowing of DSD minions. Could be putting the other elements out of balance.

Disembodied voices that confuse and manipulate seems very Jormag. Do you think the devs would use the same schtick back to back?

Psychological warfare was a constant strategy for these elder dragons that can communicate despite how they used it differs.

With such little knowledge of DSD, we can't say much about what the DSD can and cannot do just because a Elder Dragon we face now or defeated previously already done this before. The Elder Dragons that lived may learn and adopt strategies from the other Elder Dragons from previous Cycle conflicts and even current events.

I am thinking more from a writing perspective, doing the same gimmick back to back seems tacky to me. If Jormag is a master manipulator, I'd rather the DSD have a different gimmick.

Disembodied voices were also used by Mordremoth too...

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:

@Bast.7253 said:There’s also Dessa’s dialogue in the background. “Disembodied voices” and “I’m not gonna let you drown.”

Yeah, it could be some foreshadowing of DSD minions. Could be putting the other elements out of balance.

Disembodied voices that confuse and manipulate seems very Jormag. Do you think the devs would use the same schtick back to back?

Psychological warfare was a constant strategy for these elder dragons that can communicate despite how they used it differs.

With such little knowledge of DSD, we can't say much about what the DSD can and cannot do just because a Elder Dragon we face now or defeated previously already done this before. The Elder Dragons that lived may learn and adopt strategies from the other Elder Dragons from previous Cycle conflicts and even current events.

I am thinking more from a writing perspective, doing the same gimmick back to back seems tacky to me. If Jormag is a master manipulator, I'd rather the DSD have a different gimmick.

Disembodied voices were also used by Mordremoth too...

Sure, but that was several years ago at this point. And honestly, I feel like Jormag's whispers have been more prominent in game than hearing instances of Mord's mental domination.

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The disembodied voices I think are the elemental spirits that are mentioned in the trailer and articles - namely the deer mount NPC, which I think is likely going to be GW2's Kirin replacement, and the voice(s) likely belong to that.

Also, I don't think the drowning is literal - Dessa first says "that feeling will drown you if you let it", implying that the "we won't let you drown" is her talking to the acolyte person (final boss I assume) who's emotions are being drowned out by the disturbed elements.

Trailer transcript:

Voice 1: This mountain's natural elements are deeply disturbed. Please, you must hurry."Acolyte": I'll give you anything.Dessa: Uh, my research doesn't say anything about disembodied voices."Acolyte": Why are you even here? Go away!Dessa: That feeling will drown you if you let it!"Acolyte": I said leave!Dessa: We won't let you drown!"Acolyte": I warned you!

I don't think you can drown when on top of a mountain plateau... Nor do any of the trailer indicates the water is rising above the mountain.

Also curious why Dessa cares about a Fractal individual - "we won't let you drown" doesn't seem to be directed to the players, unless they took the lines really out of context for the trailer, and instead seems like the "we" she's using refers to Dessa and the party.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:The disembodied voices I think are the elemental spirits that are mentioned in the trailer and articles - namely the deer mount NPC, which I think is likely going to be GW2's Kirin replacement, and the voice(s) likely belong to that.

Also, I don't think the drowning is literal - Dessa first says "that feeling will drown you if you let it", implying that the "we won't let you drown" is her talking to the acolyte person (final boss I assume) who's emotions are being drowned out by the disturbed elements.

Trailer transcript:

Voice 1: This mountain's natural elements are deeply disturbed. Please, you must hurry."Acolyte": I'll give you anything.Dessa: Uh, my research doesn't say anything about disembodied voices."Acolyte": Why are you even here? Go away!Dessa: That feeling will drown you if you let it!"Acolyte": I said leave!Dessa: We won't let you drown!"Acolyte": I warned you!

I don't think you can drown when on top of a mountain plateau... Nor do any of the trailer indicates the water is rising above the mountain.

Also curious why Dessa cares about a Fractal individual - "we won't let you drown" doesn't seem to be directed to the players, unless they took the lines really out of context for the trailer, and instead seems like the "we" she's using refers to Dessa and the party.

But out of all the verbs, they chose drown? Just seems like an odd choice to me. From the trailer it does seem to be implying the boss but the way these trailers are spliced together it may be a different encounter.

I hope that isn't the replacement for Kirin. It may be a placeholder so the model doesn't get spoiled later on. If it's referencing the spirits are they really disembodied? It doesn't seem like this would be Dessa's first run-in with spirits but I suppose that could be it.

I suppose it could be nothing and just a repurposed fractal set to a Canthan theme to create hype, but I'm hoping it has some hints to the upcoming expansion and lore. It feels like there will be something significant as they're locking the challenge mode behind the story collection achievement and they really seem to be hammering on the story bit a lot. But as to why or how I'm not sure. I guess we'll finally know more tomorrow.

I wonder why the Acolyte says "I'll give you anything" and who it's talking to though? I'm assuming it's telling US to "go away" so it doesn't seem like it would be saying "I'll give you anything" to us. Unless they're insane and flipping between two scripts.

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@"Bast.7253" said:But out of all the verbs, they chose drown? Just seems like an odd choice to me. From the trailer it does seem to be implying the boss but the way these trailers are spliced together it may be a different encounter.It's a pretty common term to use in analogies to being consumed by an emotion. e.g., drowned by their rage.

Could be a different encounter, and no doubt a lot of the conversation is missing, but to me it sounds like Dessa and the second unknown voice (whom I'm pretty sure is the final boss / woman in the trailer) are conversing.

I hope that isn't the replacement for Kirin. It may be a placeholder so the model doesn't get spoiled later on. If it's referencing the spirits are they really disembodied? It doesn't seem like this would be Dessa's first run-in with spirits but I suppose that could be it.Spirits by nature are disembodied. Disembodied = no body; spirits do not have a body by nature of being a spirit.

It feels like there will be something significant as they're locking the challenge mode behind the story collection achievement and they really seem to be hammering on the story bit a lot. But as to why or how I'm not sure. I guess we'll finally know more tomorrow.Nightmare Fractal and Shattered Observatory Fractal both have their CM locked behind achievements. This is in no way new. It's just following the trend of every CM being locked behind a new fractal-specific group of achievements.

I wonder why the Acolyte says "I'll give you anything" and who it's talking to though? I'm assuming it's telling US to "go away" so it doesn't seem like it would be saying "I'll give you anything" to us. Unless they're insane and flipping between two scripts.Insanity does seem to be part of the narrative here. Sounds to me that the elements being in disarray has led to the temple's caretaker/acolyte/whatever-position-she-has to be going insane. Likely similar to how those exposed to overflowing ley lines go mad.

The voiced lines also make it sound like the character is in pain. So the "I'll give you anything" could be leading into a "to make this pain go away" second half. Could be directed to the raging elements like that fire cat and the Voice of the Mountain air elemental.

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