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Fractal KP - Yes or No?


Friday.7864

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@"maddoctor.2738" said:I voted no, "Kill Proof" as an item that can be pinged isn't something I want in the game. However, a better way of showing experience that doesn't involve chat codes and cannot be faked, is something I'd like to have, while at the same time reducing clutter and inventory space requirements. Like pinging the "KP" from inside the wallet.

I feel like the KP people are wanting, is being overlooked in the form of actual fractal guilds.

You play a fractal run, notice guys who are real good, you invite them into an elite fractal guild once they've demonstrated superior play.

Great reason to encourage the formation and bonding of guilds again.

I mean this is not a difficult thing to do in a game designed with guild UIs.

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I think they could have a progressional title system. After so many times doing CM 98, you get title 1, after more times get title 2, and so on. Same for 99 and 100. That’s all you have to do. I don’t want items that are supposed to be used to buy rewards held back because you have to show KP. A title system would be fine. It can be governed by an achievement, and when you hit the next tier your title evolves.

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As new fractals are getting longer and longer and more and more mechanics heavy, we absolutely should have KP. I don't want to spend 1.5 hours on 100 (non-CM) because people keep dying over and over. Maybe when I'm bored and have extra time to kill. Otherwise please no. And KP is one of the ways to filter down the situation a bit.Ideally we should be able to show how many times particular fractal was finished. "Did Siren's Reef 200 times" is way better than "Did Siren's Reef 5 times" expectation wise.

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KPs are the reason we're so rarely getting any new content. Anet sees that only a fraction of the players are doing fracal CMs at all, even fewer on a regular basis so they don't think it's worth dedicading resources to. The KP situation is scaring people away from even attemting them, not just because they can't find a group but because it makes them look much harder then they actually are. I also dont think it's valide to, say new players should: "just join a training run" or "get a guild" and "good players shouldn't have to carry bad players" as you could just aswell say "if you dont want to deal with bad player, YOU should be the one looking for a guild or static group". The LFG tool was made for more "casual" player but lately the "250+ kp" crowd had comply taken over to the point where normal people cant even get a standard T4 daily without having at least 100 kp because may players without any stoped doing fracals at all. The community has split into two camps "the KP people" and the "to bad to bother with people" where the latter dont even want to play with each other anymore and rater quit all together. I'm glad KPs are gone and they should even go further with it. It's KPs (LI) that killed strikes recently, folling in the footsteps of raids that came before them. They should remove as many KP typ items as Possible and the game should focus more on building communitys around this type of content to mitigate the need to artificially filter people and encourage playing with people you know.

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@Shadowmoon.7986 said:I would rather have gearcheck instead of kp. Rich Cameron said there are better ways vet player than kp, so allow 3rd party gear check programs.

gearcheck ssay even less than kp about player skills. it is super easy to get ascended/legendary gear with proper stats but it doesn't mean that you know how to deal with mechs and/or do a half descent rotation.

also you should try to play in 0kp group present in t1 i started recently for the weekly reward and so far its more toxic than t4. people get kicked for lagging even if they outdps the whole team :# and these are the one that give the first impression to new players not the t4 lfg ;)

@uberkingkong.8041 said:

@"Friday.7864" said:
  • Many don't even know the basics of their class. Rotation?
    What's that? If a fractal has DPS checks and a player doesn't know how to dps we have nothing to discuss.

Yep exactly why I made this thread
...

People say rotation isn't a big deal,

memorizing 26 buttons to do in a row
26 button opener PLUS 18 button loop

No big deal, you have this dude who keeps spamming@"Astyrah.4015""2 weapons 5 skills, yada yada"Then here come to a thread where people know what fractals raids and good dps is.
Many don't even know the basics of their class. Rotation?

Yep, thats whole point, we need to lessen down that rotation, so people can, know basics, easier to remember some rotation 4-8 buttons, not 26 button opener and 18 button loop.

Yes we need a DPS meter, as for KP, you don't need it if you have a DPS meter. This is fractal, its easier than strike mission easier than raid, you want people who do dungeons to have KP, megabosses to have KP?

DPS meter.People could care less if you can do a raid, if you do 25K+ dps, sure come on and join us, you better than the someone who knows but who can only maintain 12K.Would be no issue if rotation wasn't 15+Back in CoF p1, the core days. Warrior, press 2 and use berserk utility. Yes thats cheesy, but 26 19 button rotation?!? thats insane, 4-9 buttons is a sweet spot.

DPS Meter, less amount of buttons for rotation, you wont have any headaches with things like Subject 7

its fractal, boss are phasing/moving away at 5th button or so...rotation doesn't have to be simplified, people have to accept/realise what their gameplay level is and join the adapted group instead of always aiming to highest level that fit only for maybe 1 or 2k player. or give theself the tools to improve by either repeating a lot the encounter or pactice their rotation on golem and think of to make it as good as possible depending of the target boss and its mechsbut well all want to think they are the best player and join high pressure group, ruin it and make the group makers increase the requirement to avoid having this issue again. when in fact they would be better off joining a lower requirement lfg that would still kill the boss but using an easier strat

its quite impressive how people are terrible to each other in lower frectal tier instead of helping each otherand well at least i hope the weekly success drag enough skill player to help fresh newcomers instead of having them shoot each other. not surprising that there is a low quality at higher tier if all that is taught/learn in t1 is how to call people out for tiny things instead of telling them nicely how to improve.i guess T1 need more evil kp elitist like I that teach people how to get easy ring and ascended gear instead of kicking 0 ar player :#and its also a win win, increasing the quality from start will increase the quality all the way up to cm ;) maybe even reduce the required kp amount as player would have thess to learn and can focus on boss mechs

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As reyo has said the removal of Unstable Cosmic Essence was a good thing for several reason, 1 it took up inventory space and 2) it was easy to be faked. Beyond that it also served a purpose that the community felt help solve a problem. And the problem was a matter of respecting a players time and helped group like minded players with an expectation of skill level.

We have no real way of sharing how experienced we are with harder content. There is no inspect option or share option to let people see how skilled you are. So players came up with a simple shift+click solution. It wasn't perfect but facilitated that purpose.

So the problem isn't that Unstable Cosmic Essence was removed, it was that Anet offered no good alternative. Cameron said we should rely on on titles for our KP

Reyo again suggest then if thats what anet wants us to use then we need new titles.

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@Glott.4830 said:KPs are the reason we're so rarely getting any new content. Anet sees that only a fraction of the players are doing fracal CMs at all, even fewer on a regular basis so they don't think it's worth dedicading resources to.

I don't think KP's are the main reason for that, rather the other way around. So few players play the content because there is barely any of it, with it taking Anet up to 3 years to release ~10 minutes of content, because of that, rather than being kept busy by frequent new content releases and having a balanced player base with frequent new player additions drawn in by the content updates, all veterans of the content had to keep themselves entertained was to master the content more and more - therefor needing a tool for selection to find other very experienced people in an easy way, aka. ever increasing KP.

Many players don't think it's worth investing their time into the content, since Anet isn't dedicating any resources to it and it appearing to not have a future.Why get invested into and learn content that sees an update every couple years?Naturally, all you have eventually left is a very tight hardcore community of the most dedicated players to that content, looking for each other to play with.

@Glott.4830 said:The KP situation is scaring people away from even attemting them, not just because they can't find a group but because it makes them look much harder then they actually are.

I do agree with this partially, but that's also a symptom of a wider problem of GW2, where due to how the entire rest of the game works, being extremely easy solo content that never requires any coordination or socialisation, a large part of the community is just simply too afraid to put up their own groups and start their own initiatives, with the rest of the game just never having normalised that.Way too many people just keep staring at LFG hoping for the perfect group for them to appear so they can slide in there without any effort or communication on their part.If there aren't any, hardcore players who do make their own groups get blamed for "discrimination" for making their own groups with their own requirements because they don't fulfill them, when everybody has the tools to do so.

@Glott.4830 said:I also dont think it's valide to, say new players should: "just join a training run" or "get a guild" and "good players shouldn't have to carry bad players" as you could just aswell say "if you dont want to deal with bad player, YOU should be the one looking for a guild or static group".The LFG tool was made for more "casual" player but lately the "250+ kp" crowd had comply taken over to the point where normal people cant even get a standard T4 daily without having at least 100 kp because may players without any stoped doing fracals at all.

Absolutely, that statement applies to every player. Getting a group/static is the superior way to experience group content for everybody from super casual to super hardcore and everything in between.Yet the LFG is for everybody, not only casuals, not only hardcores. And here's the thing, hardcore players usually do look for guilds, statics, groups and do make LFG's.Casuals more often than not don't, that's the problem.There is no "Takeover" by hardcore players, barring anyone else from getting in.Just people knowing how and with whom they want to play the game not afraid to look for exactly that. I don't see anything wrong with that. Everybody has those tools.Most just aren't using them, and blaming those who do for stepping up for themselves is imo pretty silly.

@Glott.4830 said:The community has split into two camps "the KP people" and the "to bad to bother with people" where the latter dont even want to play with each other anymore and rater quit all together. I'm glad KPs are gone and they should even go further with it. It's KPs (LI) that killed strikes recently, folling in the footsteps of raids that came before them. They should remove as many KP typ items as Possible and the game should focus more on building communitys around this type of content to mitigate the need to artificially filter people and encourage playing with people you know.

I absolutely agree that the game should focus more on building communities, getting people to group, form relationships etc., which then makes it much easier, stress free and comfortable for most players to tackle group content together in a much "safer" environment.That said, ask yourself which part of the community has been rallying against any such efforts, and which part of the community already is in groups and statics to a large degree?Abolishing group finding tools used by the subset of pugging hardcore players isn't magically going to make casuals, beginners, or whatever you want to call them, look for groups, organise and put the work in to get statics and guilds off the ground - something that's been available to them to enjoy the content all this time, KP or not, as well.

KP's are a needed solution to a problem. Just removing a solution for not being perfect doesn't fix the problem.If Anet abolishes group finding tools everywhere, hardcore/experienced players in statics and guild will still play all the same, hardcore/experienced players who pug will either quit or make the jump to statics, and casuals/beginners at large will still stare at the LFG waiting for someone else to do the grouping work, except now instead of filled with KP/LI groups the LFG will mostly be just empty, with no else one left to blame for their own lack of initiative.

/E:

@Glott.4830 said:It's KPs (LI) that killed strikes recently, folling in the footsteps of raids that came before them.

Also to further address that point, the early super casual Strikes were utterly dead before the Eye of the North update and more semi-frequent and slightly more challenging content releases which meant hardcore players flocking to the mode for a time in the absence of Raids, making groups for everybody and themselves.

Now there is no new content for a while, most rewards are likely earned - at least by the dedicated players who made groups, and so the content is slowly dying down again, just like any other neglected group/hardcore content.

KP really doesn't have much if anything to do with that.

TL:DR;Anet focused way too much on easy single player content in their MMO for years and years, never normalising grouping to it's players. Meanwhile hardcore and in general group content has seen incredibly few releases, shrinking those player bases to just the most dedicated players left.KP followed as (imperfect) symptom/solution out of that for those players to group with each other - it was never the problem itself.You can't blame hardcore/experienced players making their own groups (whatever the tools available) for the lack of beginner/casual groups.If beginners/casuals want groups on LFG catering to them, LI/KP existing or not, they are going to have to step up and make them, nobody else will and it's silly and self-patronizing/entitled to expect them to.

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@"Glott.4830" said:The LFG tool was made for more "casual" player

The LFG tool was made for players to form groups, how they do that and what groups they make is up to them. When it comes to harder content, LFG groups are looking for players that are already experienced with the content, and that makes sense as it's dumb to force players to "train/teach" others. All player's time should be respected. It wasn't "created for casual players" specifically.

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title is something fix but kp it something that inflate overtime.best players get 25kill after few days so having a title would be fine. but now take after year pretty much everyone has these 25kills which makes title irrelevant and players will work on some sort of item kp then to be able to make different level group again. or in that case you need title max kill to increase here and there but doubt it will be

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@"maddoctor.2738" said:The LFG tool was made for players to form groups, how they do that and what groups they make is up to them. When it comes to harder content, LFG groups are looking for players that are already experienced with the content, and that makes sense as it's dumb to force players to "train/teach" others. All player's time should be respected. It wasn't "created for casual players" specifically.

Casual was probably the wrong word (that's why i put it in quotation marks) . What i meant are players that dont have a guild, friends or a regular group to play with and often don't even want any of that for what ever reason, mostly a lag time. I get if people want a fast an clean run but often enough i see LFG groups asking for 250kp and apparently waiting 30min.+ for someone to join. Why do all these groups have so much time to do literally nothing but can't be burdened with a few potential wipes with a less experienced player. In my experience most people are very understanding if you ask them to leave after it's clear they are not up to the task, but at least they got a chance to try and often enough it even works out.

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@Glott.4830 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:The LFG tool was made for players to form groups, how they do that and what groups they make is up to them. When it comes to harder content, LFG groups are looking for players that are already experienced with the content, and that makes sense as it's dumb to force players to "train/teach" others. All player's time should be respected. It wasn't "created for casual players" specifically.

Casual was probably the wrong word (that's why i put it in quotation marks) . What i meant are players that dont have a guild, friends or a regular group to play with and often don't even want any of that for what ever reason, mostly a lag time. I get if people want a fast an clean run but often enough i see LFG groups asking for 250kp and apparently waiting 30min.+ for someone to join. Why do all these groups have so much time to do literally nothing but can't be burdened with a few potential wipes with a less experienced player. In my experience most people are very understanding if you ask them to leave after it's clear they are not up to the task, but at least they got a chance to try and often enough it even works out.

You do know that they can do anything in the open world while still having a lfg listing up right?They dont have to sit in the fractal lobby waiting to form.

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I voted yes since i got my 400+ kp runing in PUG groups only and I can really see the difference between 1-100, 100-200, 200-300 and 300+ (and even 400+) kp groups.That being said, I don't see the problem with kp since it is what shows the experience of a player in a certain game mode. If people don't like an item to be linked maybe a killcount on X boss would be the same ? I would gladly accept arcdps logs on bosses even though it takes too much time/effort to be relevant.

I play alacrity renegade and I feel kinda awfull doing more burst/dps than a "dps" spot in 200kp groups. There's also a question of time, after doing so much fractal I like to clean it fast (40-45 minutes for old CM's+T4s) and don't want to spend 1hour+ teaching people (plus I don't know everything).Don't get me wrong I like going in T4 and sometimes CMs with my guildies and teach them how things work and spending hours wiping, but these are two different situations thus I have different expectations.

Have a good day c:

Edit : Say what you want about fake kp but at a certain point you can see someone who's really faking kp on his dps/mechanics and if you don't see a difference then it's fine no ? If someone having 50 kp is faking 300kp and does a good job it's all good :smiley:

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