Should they add a DPS meter? - [Merged]

[Wuffy.9732]

How about instead of seeing everyone's dps, we'd be able to see everyone's "potential" dps. Meaning, it will not be a real time counter, but we could instead right-click a player and get a calculated judgement based on a player's armor and stats. It will kind of be like kp in a way, with a lot less elitism and toxicity. Personally I still use arcdps, but I am in no way an elitist. I use it mainly to read my output and see if I am doing well in groups. But this is an MMO, it is impossible to entirely avoid elitism, so pick your poison.

That is all just my opinion however.

[Naqam a.6521]

Lets keep this formula of ArcDPS for 1-2 year .Whoever wants to use it , will use it . For some case , if some people from Raids have an agenda and will try to force the company to close/sabotage the open World Raids , then the company will open a third open Raid and so forth .The third option will be a stepping stone for the second option , while the normal Raids .... lets say .... people will do it

An other option , is that if ArcDPS draw numbers from the combat log ....disable the combat log in Open World/Open Bosses/1-3 Tier Fractals and keep it Raids/PvP/WvW/4th Fractals/areas without world bosses .Also increase the rewards from 3 tier , so casuals won't need to go in 4th tier and the casual/l33t populations won't intermingle .I won't believe that tier 4 Fractals will meet the same fate as Raids ..

Or in the combat log , everything does 9.999 damageOr Flamethrower does ''apple damage%120+1''Or 3.000 damage > 3@0!0#0 in combat logedit: while on your screen (in combat) the 3@0!0#0 combat damage that pops up is squeezed towards the inside , in order the @!# will become a slight small line 3!0!0!0 (and even more squeezed if posible to be seamless )

[Krzysztof.5973]

No. I don't want another poorly created tool in place of something that already is well made and it's free.

[kharmin.7683]

@Krzysztof.5973 said:No. I don't want another poorly created tool in place of something that already is well made and it's free.I can't imagine ANet would implement a tool like this and monetize it without the community crying P2W. However, it's not like I haven't been wrong before.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Adding in tools directly in game at least removes questions from players of if they are allowed. Broadcasting additional data downstream increases packet size which potentially increases latency. What's better for the game? Performance or meters? Personally use Arcdps but would prefer that they improve game speed by not transmitting extra data to the client if it could be helped since it would further improve game performance for all players. Now creating tools to help a player measure their own output would make sense since their client should be receiving their own data back and a meter could act as a tool to measure one's own output. But measuring it for others, no. Mostly people use DPS meters for negative effect.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Wuffy.9732" said:How about instead of seeing everyone's dps, we'd be able to see everyone's "potential" dps. Meaning, it will not be a real time counter, but we could instead right-click a player and get a calculated judgement based on a player's armor and stats.Not worth much, tbh. A player in a full meta build can still end up doing 6k dps next to another player with the same build and gear doing 20k dps more.

That was exactly the problem of pre-dps-meter era. People assumed that eles would always do top damage, but didn;t realize that most players, even running the best possible build, were simply not able to come even close to achieving that build's potential.

It's even worse with support classes. I have seen, at the time of the infamous chaos chrono build that could "effortlessly" produce massive amount of boons and keep them forever, players using that same build and barely able to achieve quickness/alac upkeep of 30%. I have also seen completely proper heal builds whose owners were not able to keep up with healing even basic pressure damage.That's because, in this game, skill is a much greater component of overall effectiveness than in other MMORPGs (where gear is generally the most important factor).

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Krzysztof.5973" said:No. I don't want another poorly created tool in place of something that already is well made and it's free.I can't imagine ANet would implement a tool like this and monetize it without the community crying P2W. However, it's not like I haven't been wrong before.Before they introduced their own version of "template" system, i wouldn't have believed they would be able to both butcher and monetize it as much as they did either. And notice, how the system not meeting with a warm reception did absolutely nothing to improve its quality.

[kharmin.7683]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Krzysztof.5973" said:No. I don't want another poorly created tool in place of something that already is well made and it's free.I can't imagine ANet would implement a tool like this and monetize it without the community crying P2W. However, it's not like I haven't been wrong before.Before they introduced their own version of "template" system, i wouldn't have believed they would be able to both butcher and monetize it as much as they did either. And notice, how the system not meeting with a warm reception did absolutely nothing to improve its quality.

I wouldn't define the template system as being P2W. Some might deem a monetized DPS meter to be. That was kinda my point. It could also be wrong.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@"TheGrimm.5624" said:Adding in tools directly in game at least removes questions from players of if they are allowed. Broadcasting additional data downstream increases packet size which potentially increases latency. What's better for the game? Performance or meters? Personally use Arcdps but would prefer that they improve game speed by not transmitting extra data to the client if it could be helped since it would further improve game performance for all players. Now creating tools to help a player measure their own output would make sense since their client should be receiving their own data back and a meter could act as a tool to measure one's own output. But measuring it for others, no. Mostly people use DPS meters for negative effect.

There is no extra data that's being transmitted? Everything being read by DPS meters is stuff that's already being sent to you and everyone near by...and always has been.

So saying performance or meters is just a bad argument since the game is sending and using the data already based on its core functions. Tracking boons, conditions, removals, damage etc etc is always being done and being sent to everyone nearby since that's how people interact.

The client isn't just recieving "their own data", which again as a concept doesn't exist since it's all public,globally available, and in no way private, it's literally receiving game state data from everyone near by.

Also saying "most people do X with y and it's always negative".. you can't really use that as any form of valid point, besides a flimsy attempt to push an agenda, because you literally have no idea how many people use it and how. I would personally also say it's demonstrably false since the switch to quantifiable class measures instead of arbitrary rules, "no X class"/"need this much ap" etc etc , was mostly due to tools like arc DPS.

[maddoctor.2738]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Broadcasting additional data downstream increases packet size which potentially increases latency.

Player A damages Mob A with Skill A for A damagePlayer B's client needs to know which skill Player A used (to play the proper animation), needs to know how much damage Player A did to Mob A in order to calculate the new health total.

All the data that dps meters use are essential for YOUR client to work, there isn't any extra data

[TheGrimm.5624]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Broadcasting additional data downstream increases packet size which potentially increases latency.

Player A damages Mob A with Skill A for A damagePlayer B's client needs to know which skill Player A used (to play the proper animation), needs to know how much damage Player A did to Mob A in order to calculate the new health total.

All the data that dps meters use are essential for YOUR client to work, there isn't any extra data

I don't have information on the way their code is setup. My assumption would be like yours if the information is available to the meter. That said, the server should be tracking current data items and not the client, the server would be the one sending back target HP. Data points for animation makes sense, but damage, seems like packet waste in PvE.

[maddoctor.2738]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:I don't have information on the way their code is setup. My assumption would be like yours if the information is available to the meter. That said, the server should be tracking current data items and not the client, the server would be the one sending back target HP. Data points for animation makes sense, but damage, seems like packet waste in PvE.

The server needs to tell your client how much damage the target took so your client can update the health on your screen.

Edit:And since it must send you how the target took the damage (which skill) to play the proper attack animation, the particle effect on the target and so on, it makes sense to send both the damage and the skill that caused it in one packet. Otherwise they'd have to send the damage and the skill separately, first send the skill data, then the server calculates the health left and sends that to the client. Given how the NUMBER of packets, and not their size, plays a much more important role in latency, they chose to send both in one packet for performance.

[Wuffy.9732]

@"Astralporing.1957" said:

Not worth much, tbh. A player in a full meta build can still end up doing 6k dps next to another player with the same build and gear doing 20k dps more.

That was exactly the problem of pre-dps-meter era. People assumed that eles would always do top damage, but didn;t realize that most players, even running the best possible build, were simply not able to come even close to achieving that build's potential.

It's even worse with support classes. I have seen, at the time of the infamous chaos chrono build that could "effortlessly" produce massive amount of boons and keep them forever, players using that same build and barely able to achieve quickness/alac upkeep of 30%. I have also seen completely proper heal builds whose owners were not able to keep up with healing even basic pressure damage.That's because, in this game, skill is a much greater component of overall effectiveness than in other MMORPGs (where gear is generally the most important factor).

Well that's thing. I'm almost 90% sure that the large majority of people in this game are not using a meter like arcdps, and are just playing this game without understanding the basic rotations of their classes. Practically in every MMO, most people are just mashing buttons (And if you used a meter, you would know this). That's the reason I suggested not a meter, but a dumbed down version of one.

However, I agree with you that other classes are more OP than others. Frankly I think anet should just rework the current build system. Some classes are simply under performing compared to others. There should definitely be a balance...

[uberkingkong.8041]

Some of yall making this seem like a serious project.All you do is add it to combat log, simple as that.Sure it can be more nifty, but can also be simple straight to the point.

[Yggranya.5201]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@"Yggranya.5201" said:When i played FFXIV for four months straight as i had nothing better to do, there was like 50 in a thousand dungeon groups where people did their job properly. When i say "did their job properly" i mean they actually played the kitten game. I admit, i got REALLY tired of it. In fact, that experience is the sole reason i made these account on the forums of games i play, so i can let people know that what they do is truly despicable.

And what exactly means

doing their Job properly

and

actually playing

the game to you?If you mean using the optimal rotations and caring about min-maxing, or knowing every aspect of encounters before seeing them ingame, then those 5% might actually be too high of a number.But that also implies that you consider people, who have fun in their own way, aren't actually playing properly.

I have rare met any players in FF14 who weren't playing properly.But then again, playing properly means for me simply that they use more skills than their attack chains.

No, i mean that they use their basic rotation and actions you learn from doing the job guests. Like a dragoon who doesn't use blood of the dragon or a monk who doesn't use form shift or black mage who only uses ice magic and never activates enochian. Also not standing in every single AoE as they are too distracted to dodge. Can't enjoy the show when the game inconveniently gets in the way.

As in, you simply read the ability description and tested to see how it works in combat. That can't be too much to ask, right?

Every day i saw this and at the end of it i was so DONE with it. You don't have to believe me, that won't change facts. I said i have played all classes to max level to simply make sure you know that i know what i'm talking about. There isn't any doubt, it's just the usual MMO "coop" experiance.

[Yggranya.5201]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:When i played FFXIV for four months straight as i had nothing better to do, there was like 50 in a thousand dungeon groups where people did their job properly.Then you were extremely unlucky, or you expected 200% performance to be normal. Yes, you get occasional bad apples on dungeon runs, but it doesn;t happen very often. Most cases when something goes wrong is a direct result of someone doing said dungeon for the first time, and not yet understanding some of its unique mechanics. And even then it only rarely results in wipe, as leveling dungeons are often very forgiving (also, it can be easily helped with you dropping even very short explanations beforehand). There's also a case of people not yet having been fully geared up (it's really easy, especially on the preferred servers, to level up and progress with the story so fast your gear doesn't catch up with you).

The real bad players in dungeons don't happen that often at all.

Older Alliance Raids, though (especially the 50-lev ones) can be cringey, as they are now so easy that a lot of players indeed do not really pay attention.

At the beginning of this month i just bought a month of playtime for FFXIV again. Around half way through, i decided to try doing some dungeons to see if anything has changed. You know what has changed? Absolutely nothing. Trust me, i wasn't surprised, and so i stopped bothering with dungeons again. It isn't new, and if i had paid attention when i started years ago, i'm sure i would have noticed the same. So disgusting.

[Nephalem.8921]

@uberkingkong.8041 said:How many buttons you have to push if your dps?Easy to do job properly when you don't have to memorize a 26 button opener, 16 button continuous button loop for optimal dps.

Maybe play wow if you want every class getting dumbed down to 3 buttons? Some ff jobs even have 15+ skills openers. 15 different skills. The majority of gw2 builds are very simple. Only condi engi and condi sword weaver are quite hard but nobody plays those to begin with.The thief dps rotation consists of 3 buttons btw. The problem is that even the simple ones are too hard for some because they cant be bothered with reading their traits.

[Cameron.6450]

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:When i played FFXIV for four months straight as i had nothing better to do, there was like 50 in a thousand dungeon groups where people did their job properly. When i say "did their job properly" i mean they actually played the kitten game. I admit, i got REALLY tired of it. In fact, that experience is the sole reason i made these account on the forums of games i play, so i can let people know that what they do is truly despicable.

And what exactly means

doing their Job properly

and

actually playing

the game to you?If you mean using the optimal rotations and caring about min-maxing, or knowing every aspect of encounters before seeing them ingame, then those 5% might actually be too high of a number.But that also implies that you consider people, who have fun in their own way, aren't actually playing properly.

I have rare met any players in FF14 who weren't playing properly.But then again, playing properly means for me simply that they use more skills than their attack chains.

No, i mean that they use their basic rotation and actions you learn from doing the job guests. Like a dragoon who doesn't use blood of the dragon or a monk who doesn't use form shift or black mage who only uses ice magic and never activates enochian. Also not standing in every single AoE as they are too distracted to dodge. Can't enjoy the show when the game inconveniently gets in the way.

As in, you simply read the ability description and tested to see how it works in combat. That can't be too much to ask, right?

Every day i saw this and at the end of it i was so DONE with it. You don't have to believe me, that won't change facts. I said i have played all classes to max level to simply make sure you know that i know what i'm talking about. There isn't any doubt, it's just the usual MMO "coop" experiance.

This is exactly my experience as well.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:When i played FFXIV for four months straight as i had nothing better to do, there was like 50 in a thousand dungeon groups where people did their job properly. When i say "did their job properly" i mean they actually played the kitten game. I admit, i got REALLY tired of it. In fact, that experience is the sole reason i made these account on the forums of games i play, so i can let people know that what they do is truly despicable.

And what exactly means

doing their Job properly

and

actually playing

the game to you?If you mean using the optimal rotations and caring about min-maxing, or knowing every aspect of encounters before seeing them ingame, then those 5% might actually be too high of a number.But that also implies that you consider people, who have fun in their own way, aren't actually playing properly.

I have rare met any players in FF14 who weren't playing properly.But then again, playing properly means for me simply that they use more skills than their attack chains.

No, i mean that they use their basic rotation and actions you learn from doing the job guests. Like a dragoon who doesn't use blood of the dragon or a monk who doesn't use form shift or black mage who only uses ice magic and never activates enochian. Also not standing in every single AoE as they are too distracted to dodge. Can't enjoy the show when the game inconveniently gets in the way.

As in, you simply read the ability description and tested to see how it works in combat. That can't be too much to ask, right?

Every day i saw this and at the end of it i was so DONE with it. You don't have to believe me, that won't change facts. I said i have played all classes to max level to simply make sure you know that i know what i'm talking about. There isn't any doubt, it's just the usual MMO "coop" experiance.Notice, that (with the exception of infamous ice mages, which are a very extreme example, comparable to GW2 players in full nomads), the average FFXIV player, doing their own version of rotation (instead of the proper one) is still likely doing around

half

of the top benchmark DPS. By FFXIV standarts, they

are

doing their job. You just have too high expectations, and expect average players to play on the same level as top 5%.

Notice, though, that the very same people doing 50% of the top benchmark (which is enough for everything except the handful of higher mode instances), if they were playing gw2, they would be doing 10-20% of top dps. That is the difference between those games. The same skill level, but in one game it creates 5 times greater difference than in the other.

[uberkingkong.8041]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@"uberkingkong.8041" said:How many buttons you have to push if your dps?Easy to do job properly when you don't have to memorize a 26 button opener, 16 button continuous button loop for optimal dps.

Maybe play wow if you want every class getting dumbed down to 3 buttons? Some ff jobs even have 15+ skills openers. 15 different skills. The majority of gw2 builds are very simple. Only condi engi and condi sword weaver are quite hard but nobody plays those to begin with.The thief dps rotation consists of 3 buttons btw. The problem is that even the simple ones are too hard for some because they cant be bothered with reading their traits.

You give praise to thief?Lets lookhttps://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/thief/daredevil/power/8 button opener 7 or 9 button bursts.Optimal, they did good...I hear in WoW people have mutliple hotbars (10 skills per hotbar or whatever)1-3 buttons, yeah ok.

..

But if it is true.Look at the playerbase, millions upon millions. #1 MMORPGAll because its easy to play, rotations are simple to do.Thats why its BEEN #1 since 2004 or so.They do something RIGHT.

..Just because you have no issues doing 18 button openers 25 button loops.Doesn't mean the millions of players who choose not to play GW2 can do it too, and probably why they don't play.Not skill.25 button 18 button. Thats memorization, which is not skillSkill is knowing what to do when, not run up to something, _MEMORIZE _the 18 button opener 25 button loop.Jump, get out of the way, use a certain attack like melee only, etc. Thats skill.Not any attack 18 button, works on everything type deal.Thats DPS CHECKNeed a DPS METER for DPS CHECK content.So I can tell, is Subject 7 going to die, or do I need to start giving whoever is slacking some tips.So that our DPS METER meets the minimum for this DPS CHECK content.

[Ototo.3214]

Technically they've already implemented a dps meter in game. It's in the special forces area of the aerodrome where you can spawn a golem and stuff. I'd personally like to be able to turn that dps meter on anywhere in the game to track my own dps.

And no, I personally dont want "rotations" to be dumbed down, as that implies we'd have few skills to use. If you're bringing a skill that you aren't utilizing, then why did you include it? If you're just upset that you have to allocate all your skills to dps in something like a raid, thats just the nature of the beast, you need to do big dps to clear the boss' health and you have supports in the party to help with utility that you can't bring in favor of more dps.

[Nephalem.8921]

@"uberkingkong.8041" said:You give praise to thief?Lets lookhttps://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/thief/daredevil/power/8 button opener 7 or 9 button bursts.Optimal, they did good.

Really not sure if im feeding a troll here but thats a single skill spamed 4-5 times. Wouldn't call that 8 button.High skill is doing dps rotations while doing mechanics. Instead of memorizing all the steps you should just read traits and understand why rotations are that way.Weaver is just going from air to fire and back. Dh just needs to use its burst into spear of justice. warr just spams as much decapitates as possible etc.

[Yggranya.5201]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:When i played FFXIV for four months straight as i had nothing better to do, there was like 50 in a thousand dungeon groups where people did their job properly. When i say "did their job properly" i mean they actually played the kitten game. I admit, i got REALLY tired of it. In fact, that experience is the sole reason i made these account on the forums of games i play, so i can let people know that what they do is truly despicable.

And what exactly means

doing their Job properly

and

actually playing

the game to you?If you mean using the optimal rotations and caring about min-maxing, or knowing every aspect of encounters before seeing them ingame, then those 5% might actually be too high of a number.But that also implies that you consider people, who have fun in their own way, aren't actually playing properly.

I have rare met any players in FF14 who weren't playing properly.But then again, playing properly means for me simply that they use more skills than their attack chains.

No, i mean that they use their basic rotation and actions you learn from doing the job guests. Like a dragoon who doesn't use blood of the dragon or a monk who doesn't use form shift or black mage who only uses ice magic and never activates enochian. Also not standing in every single AoE as they are too distracted to dodge. Can't enjoy the show when the game inconveniently gets in the way.

As in, you simply read the ability description and tested to see how it works in combat. That can't be too much to ask, right?

Every day i saw this and at the end of it i was so DONE with it. You don't have to believe me, that won't change facts. I said i have played all classes to max level to simply make sure you know that i know what i'm talking about. There isn't any doubt, it's just the usual MMO "coop" experiance.Notice, that (with the exception of infamous ice mages, which are a very extreme example, comparable to GW2 players in full nomads), the average FFXIV player, doing their own version of rotation (instead of the proper one) is still likely doing around

half

of the top benchmark DPS. By FFXIV standarts, they

are

doing their job. You just have too high expectations, and expect average players to play on the same level as top 5%.

Notice, though, that the very same people doing 50% of the top benchmark (which is enough for everything except the handful of higher mode instances), if they were playing gw2, they would be doing 10-20% of top dps. That is the difference between those games. The same skill level, but in one game it creates 5 times greater difference than in the other.

I don't care about doing top DPS, all i care about is that they do more than spam a single attack that is in the middle of a combo. It's true that not everyone was as lazy or more accurately, paid at least a little attention when they were watching those videos so they wouldn't be called out for it. Pointless to call them out, as their friend are there making sure they won't ever get kicked. If they have 2 friends with them, then i might get kicked for simply mentioning it. Most did the basic combo, while never activating abilities that are required to use the actually powerful oGCD abilities. I have never cared that there is an optimal way to play, all i ask is that you ACTUALLY PLAY THE DAMN GAME.

Like i remember a dragoon who spams nothing but disembowel, nothing else. dragoons who never activate disembowel and of course, never use chaos thrust and never use any jumps, just spam the basic combo. Red mages who use verfire and then verstone, occasionally using corps-a-corps and instantly displacement after that. Before you say anything, yes, this was something that happened all day, every day, with some version for all jobs. Not everyone was as obvious about it as that, but they weren't much better.

To put it quite simply, i couldn't care less if you do the most or the least damage, as long as you are playing the game. Why is this too much to ask and so hard to understand?

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Many players wuld stop doing raids/fractals/strikes with pugs, if thay block option to check dps of others or your

That also wuld result to need of nerf of some content as it will become too hard or ppl will come do that content only with guilds that gona "check" players one by one as in pugs you gona have alwyas bad quality as most players will take it as "if others don't need do thay best, why schold i?" And so coming with flamethrower Scrapper build

It's ture that many ppl not using dps metters, but notice also that most ppl that use it are avangarde better

Problem is not dps metter

But ppl that have diferent game style

ppl that aim to play for fun, don't want have checked thay dps by others, as thay play for fun not to make perfect rotation

ppl that aim to be best, need to have ability to check how much other ppl do, as thay need check did thay do best what is posible, and that is what make fun for them

So ther always will be some conflict between ppl with other game style

Thats why best compromis right now, is that ppl whos need dps metter, will have acces to it, and other ppl that are not determinated inaf to get that option, don't have it

Problem is also that usualy squads are created by ppl that aim to be best, as thay are more confident in thay knowlage and skill to create one of that squads

ppl that play only for fun, usualy not creating team by themselfs as thay don't want be "responsible" for any fail

Solution to that problem culd be that more ppl that play for fun create squads for ppl symilalr to thay game style with tag [not exp] [casual]

But how many times you see that tags? that's a good question :/

[uberkingkong.8041]

@Noah Salazar.5430 said:Many players wuld stop doing raids/fractals/strikes with pugs, if thay block option to check dps of others or your

That also wuld result to need of nerf of some content as it will become too hard or ppl will come do that content only with guilds

Exactly why they need a DPS METER.

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:When i played FFXIV for four months straight as i had nothing better to do, there was like 50 in a thousand dungeon groups where people did their job properly. When i say "did their job properly" i mean they actually played the kitten game. I admit, i got REALLY tired of it. In fact, that experience is the sole reason i made these account on the forums of games i play, so i can let people know that what they do is truly despicable.

And what exactly means

doing their Job properly

and

actually playing

the game to you?If you mean using the optimal rotations and caring about min-maxing, or knowing every aspect of encounters before seeing them ingame, then those 5% might actually be too high of a number.But that also implies that you consider people, who have fun in their own way, aren't actually playing properly.

I have rare met any players in FF14 who weren't playing properly.But then again, playing properly means for me simply that they use more skills than their attack chains.

No, i mean that they use their basic rotation and actions you learn from doing the job guests. Like a dragoon who doesn't use blood of the dragon or a monk who doesn't use form shift or black mage who only uses ice magic and never activates enochian. Also not standing in every single AoE as they are too distracted to dodge. Can't enjoy the show when the game inconveniently gets in the way.

As in, you simply read the ability description and tested to see how it works in combat. That can't be too much to ask, right?

Every day i saw this and at the end of it i was so DONE with it. You don't have to believe me, that won't change facts. I said i have played all classes to max level to simply make sure you know that i know what i'm talking about. There isn't any doubt, it's just the usual MMO "coop" experiance.Notice, that (with the exception of infamous ice mages, which are a very extreme example, comparable to GW2 players in full nomads), the average FFXIV player, doing their own version of rotation (instead of the proper one) is still likely doing around

half

of the top benchmark DPS. By FFXIV standarts, they

are

doing their job. You just have too high expectations, and expect average players to play on the same level as top 5%.

Notice, though, that the very same people doing 50% of the top benchmark (which is enough for everything except the handful of higher mode instances), if they were playing gw2, they would be doing 10-20% of top dps. That is the difference between those games. The same skill level, but in one game it creates 5 times greater difference than in the other.

I don't care about doing top DPS, all i care about is that they do more than spam a single attack that is in the middle of a combo. It's true that not everyone was as lazy or more accurately, paid at least a little attention when they were watching those videos so they wouldn't be called out for it. Pointless to call them out, as their friend are there making sure they won't ever get kicked. If they have 2 friends with them, then i might get kicked for simply mentioning it. Most did the basic combo, while never activating abilities that are required to use the actually powerful oGCD abilities. I have never cared that there is an optimal way to play, all i ask is that you ACTUALLY PLAY THE kitten GAME.

Like i remember a dragoon who spams nothing but disembowel, nothing else. dragoons who never activate disembowel and of course, never use chaos thrust and never use any jumps, just spam the basic combo. Red mages who use verfire and then verstone, occasionally using corps-a-corps and instantly displacement after that. Before you say anything, yes, this was something that happened all day, every day, with some version for all jobs. Not everyone was as obvious about it as that, but they weren't much better.

To put it quite simply, i couldn't care less if you do the most or the least damage, as long as you are playing the game. Why is this too much to ask and so hard to understand?

Has nothing to do with being top dpsDPS METER has everything to do with......Are you doing enough to win?Whose slacking? Is there role dps? Time to give them tips, so that......You can do enough DPS to win.

Nothing to do with egos and being top dps.Everything to do with, beating DPS CHECK Guild Wars 2 Content.

Why do people get kicked for bad dps?Because people sick of wiping and not passing the DPS check content.

Need DPS METER so that, instead of everyone angry leaving, they see whose been slacking, give them tips to do better dps, and WIN.

That 1 DPS slacker, causes people to angry leave groups, people think everybody is bad, buts its just that 1 dude. All you do is tell him we need you to pick up slack, this boss aint gonna die unless you do your share of dps so we can meet the DPS CHECK content, this rotation works, do it.

GW2 fractals, strikes, raids. full of DPS CHECK. DPS CHECK you need a DPS METER

[Leinhart.2981]

IMO, it should be better for the community (the toxicity in raids I mean), to just forbid any DPS meter OR to add one that's allows the user to see only his own DPS in order to progress.