Boon Removal

[Straegen.2938]

We really need more skills, traits, runes and sigils that boon strip at least in small scale. The boon uptime and sharing is completely out of hand compared to the ability to remove it. Counter play now centers around ignoring boons and spiking absurd amounts of damage which creates a lot less diversity in the meta.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

this has been a problem for wvw and pvp since they changed them, condis as well. they won't tho cuz of pve pander.

[Dawdler.8521]

Or maybe they could just reduce the amount of boons.

Because do you know who wont be hurt by this? The classes already spewing out boons.The ones hurt by this will be the ones that only have a few boons on higher cd.

[Shroud.2307]

Scourge was the answer to this but avoiding giant red circles is hard for some people so now we're back to square one.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Scourge was the answer to this but avoiding giant red circles is hard for some people so now we're back to square one.

More like having one specific specialization being the answer to a system-wide and meta-wide issue is not a good solution.

[kash.9213]

@Dawdler.8521 said:Or maybe they could just reduce the amount of boons.

Because do you know who wont be hurt by this? The classes already spewing out boons.The ones hurt by this will be the ones that only have a few boons on higher cd.

That's a good point. I've built to have a little more damage per a boon and to try to maintain a few of them but I'm not swimming in boons. If that part got shut down too easily I'd have to go back to Stealth on dodge trait since it's precision is already hard to pass up.

[archmagus.7249]

Sigil of Absorbtion exists. Though increased damage vs people per boon would be nice. Though I think there might be a sigil in pvp (would be nice to have outside of pvp)

[knite.1542]

@archmagus.7249 said:Sigil of Absorbtion exists. Though increased damage vs people per boon would be nice. Though I think there might be a sigil in pvp (would be nice to have outside of pvp)

Sigil of absorption steals 3 boons on interrupt. Those boons will be reapplied almost instantly assuming you can even get an interrupt (the target will probably have a ton of stability).

[mindcircus.1506]

@"Straegen.2938" said:We really need more skills, traits, runes and sigils that boon strip at least in small scale.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mind_Spikehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spinal_Shivershttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantmenthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Break_Enchantmentshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Minehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Null_Fieldhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Disenchanterhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Nothing_Can_Save_You!%22https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Breaching_Strikehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Nature_(assassin)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mine_Fieldhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Winds_of_Disenchantmenthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Larcenous_Strikehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Thieveryhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dispelling_Forcehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Concentrationhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vicious_Expressionhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rending_Shadehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Thefthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Absorptionhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Nullificationhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_of_Corruptionhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spiteful_SpiritThe boon uptime and sharing is completely out of hand compared to the ability to remove it. Counter play now centers around ignoring boons and spiking absurd amounts of damage which creates a lot less diversity in the meta.The problem is likely your understanding of the game.

[Junkpile.7439]

They shold just remove boon sharing. Everybody should bring their own boons.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

Boon removal can be done effectively with Spellbreakers, Engis (all specs) and Mesmers (also all specs?).

Regarding scrapper, I think it's funny that it can basically fill in most roles in WvW now (various support roles, dmg, boonstrip), but there are not enough people playing as scrapper. ^^ At least in our guild and publics we are always short on scrappers.Especially the damage-build only looses around 10% damage when using tools instead of firearms for the double-mine. Double-knockback + 253 strips on a 12s CD.Minefield only removes 5 boons and only when not dodged or ignored, so it's negligible.Would be nice to have another skill for AoE boonstrip without knockback, though. ^^

I think Mesmers were a bit forgotten with better alternatives for stealth, support and damage elsewhere, but they still bring great CC and strip-abilities.
The most prominent one at stripping boons is still Spellbreaker with WoD, and break-enchantment with the boon-collapse-trait.Rev and Thief are not the best choices for optimizing strips, since revs have other energy/legend priorities and thieves are mostly single-target...

Sigil of Absorption would be awesome on Scrapper/Mesmer-CC, but it has an internal cool-down of 10s. In zergfights you barely notice it.This and Nullification are more suited for roaming and dueling in my opinion.

[subversiontwo.7501]

Like others have said: There are multiple discussions in this larger theme

1. There are more rips and corruptions in the game than people tend to remember, we're just not used to giving up some of the standard choices we make on our characters in these days of following meta builds and sites. People know the classes or builds that have rip roles in larger scale but tend to forget those who don't even if they are certainly passable at smaller scale or to bring out from your pocket to adapt and counter in an encounter. While things like the armory has made pocketed counterplay easier, fewer people seem to get off their cookie cutters these days than before.

2. It is perhaps not so much a question of the amount of boons but rather their mechanics and how they are applied. I prefer more of the vanilla style of application where many boons existed on longer intervals and larger stacks (think: Guardian staff four- or shout- over Herald facet mechanics). I find the boon vs. rip game to be more interesting on longer intervals of buff and go. It also fits better into the field and trigger mechanics that I would like to see a bit more used again beyond smoke fields.

3. For conditions, the more I think about it, I'd probably want it the other way around and see them capped off more in intensity but where some spam then becomes more tolerable - not only does it make coverage management more interesting to play vs. cleanses but if a type of damage is meant to be DoT it shouldn't be able to be stacked to hit as high as power burst crits for every tick. This may make conditions even more difficult to balance in larger scale gameplay but I'm sure some at least half decent balance could be found and if not, would it really be the end of the world if condi was even more relegated from pickups? I don't see it as too much of a loss in that specific context but I'm open to other oppinions.

[Demon Puppet.6873]

Boon strip is actually probably TOO high. As a Necro main I would like to see less boon strips actually

[KrHome.1920]

small scaleI guess anet thought reducing the duration of most boons would even out with the reduction of strips and corrupts we can se esp. on the necro skills and traits. But it doesn't work. Picking one or two boon strips now does nothing. You have to bring everything you can put into a build to create an impact out of that mechanic.

For necro this means you either go spite + curses + weapon corrupts or you ignore boon stripping completely and just focus on damage multipliers.

Engineer and spellbreaker have some huge boon strip potential, but their boon strip skills are easy to avoid at the same time.

[Junkpile.7439]

@Demon Puppet.6873 said:Boon strip is actually probably TOO high. As a Necro main I would like to see less boon strips actuallyNecro skills could corrupt one boon for example or half boon. =)

[KrHome.1920]

@Junkpile.7439 said:

@Demon Puppet.6873 said:Boon strip is actually probably TOO high. As a Necro main I would like to see less boon strips actuallyNecro skills could corrupt one boon for example or half boon. =)Technically corrupting half a boon would be a 50% duration reduction. So there is still room for further nerfs.

[archmagus.7249]

@Dediggefedde.4961 said:Boon removal can be done effectively with Spellbreakers, Engis (all specs) and Mesmers (also all specs?).

Regarding scrapper, I think it's funny that it can basically fill in most roles in WvW now (various support roles, dmg, boonstrip), but there are not enough people playing as scrapper. ^^ At least in our guild and publics we are always short on scrappers.Especially the damage-build only looses around 10% damage when using tools instead of firearms for the double-mine. Double-knockback + 253 strips on a 12s CD.Minefield only removes 5 boons and only when not dodged or ignored, so it's negligible.Would be nice to have another skill for AoE boonstrip without knockback, though. ^^Just bring back Acidic Elixirs. Problem solved

[Mokk.2397]

The problem is not the amount of boons or boon strips . The problem is these traits and skills are restricted to to only a few classes and not distributed evenly across all classes . The other problem is these sills and traits have to many other effects which further skews the effectiveness of only a few classes With a more even distribution you get more inclusion of other classes and more diversity of builds across all classes .

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

spellbreaker and scrouge are even top meta choices for boonremoval and corrupts, i really don't see a problem here.

chrono and scrapper can do it too, just have more healing and other support usage (like scrapper = best cleanser existing, also starblast setup | chrono = invisibility and great allrounder support)

so of the best Wvw classes nearly a third excells at destroying boons, two more a redecent, only firebrand and herald prefer to do their own jobs. (idk about ele since i have none)

... some people here want all classes to have all utilities... why do u think classes exist in games? so you can cry that u want a character who is OP at everything?

[Junkpile.7439]

You outplay enemy blob and drop perfect well of corruption and nothing happening. Blob still have full stacks of boons. How this is possible?

[Yasai.3549]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Or maybe they could just reduce the amount of boons.

Because do you know who wont be hurt by this? The classes already spewing out boons.The ones hurt by this will be the ones that only have a few boons on higher cd.

Similar to how they handled their cute little "sustain nerfs" then.

Made everyone suffer while only hurting the high sustain builds a little bit.

[lare.5129]

@Straegen.2938 said:We really need more skills, traits, runes and sigils that boon strip at least in small scale.we already have to much boonstrip. elite from war and malyx rev already is a issue for boon classes.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Dawdler.8521 said:Or maybe they could just reduce the amount of boons.

Because do you know who wont be hurt by this? The classes already spewing out boons.The ones hurt by this will be the ones that only have a few boons on higher cd.

Very true, but changing how boon stacking works could do the trick :\ altough can be tricky to do it.

[allshallperish.4620]

Need more boon rip????? ahahaahha good joke you got me dude lol

[Balkarrie Legacy.9175]

@Demon Puppet.6873 said:Boon strip is actually probably TOO high. As a Necro main I would like to see less boon strips actually

i think youre drunk , because running 5 active and 1 passive boon strip on my nec isnt enough to dent the combined boonbots running in these groups most of the time, picking on 1 isolated target doesn`t do it either as whats the point in that.