Help vs Condi thief

[Trianox.3486]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Trianox.3486" what you missed is the part that you dont burst with stealth skill but with stab from 3 instead, at least when you want to 1shot somebody.so instead of long ambush skill that is easy to dodge you have stab along with steal, instantly from stealth that deals over 8k damage and applies all manner of nastiness like weakness,cripple,vulnerability. and THEN over the course of 1s you get bombared with over 10k dmg still.Mirage can MANAGE fight with thief with cooldowns, but mirage by no way counters cthiefand thats assuming you hit from stealth, nothing stops you from simply 3->steal for almost 10k, spam 8k repeaters, stealth, use plasma, 3->f1 again and then you have quickness for repeater that follows and you get another 20k within 20-30sAnd when you start getting clever you can throw 2 or 4 before casting 3/steal when enemy is distracted for even more damage or CC. Combo lands as the skills reach the target so for the enemy its instant too

Well buddy, you brought up that "burst from 1k". I too pointed that skill3 was the big hitter, yet you said bleeding was a cover condi. You're kind of invalidating some of your own things there. :-/

But regardless, yes this is what I have been saying from the start. Don't let the thief use that P/D skill3 more than once and even then, if you dodge during his animation you cut massively the damage taken. And of he kept his steal to do 3-steal-3, then dodge and use any of the mirage evade skill as he ports in. Unless you have high lag, it should be doable.

I'm not sure what other prooves I can bring to you other than suggest to go watch both top thieves and top Mesmer gamers and how they deal with one another (which is of course not the vast majority of players), or actually just some average gameplay.

Without going in hyperbola... Tell me if that captures our discussion or not:

• I think that overall we're saying more or less the same thing about damage output potential. Our numbers are in the same brackets.
• the main difference is that you seem to think there is not enough counter Play, while I seem to think there are more than enough. Is that right?
• you say Mirage can manage chief, I say it can counter it.

Last point would be: what makes Mirage able to manage cthief?Isn't it Mirage own stealth, CC, port-in/out, and evades? Or is capacity to burst (altho of course deminiahed over the months) or all of that together?

[saerni.2584]

One thing that screws over Mesmer versus a thief with offhand dagger is the bouncing Dancing Dagger off clones. That and some well timed hits from Sneak Attack and Repeater are not a small amount of damage. But by that point the thief has really committed to trying to kill you and some active defense (evades or blocks) is completely warranted.

I do think that mirage can win. It’s a harder matchup than before due to having only one dodge. Some random ideas:

1. Use some projectile hate (reflects are great).
2. Kite out their Shadowstep
3. Pressure once Shadowstep goes on cool down.
4. Having a de-target is really nice to avoid a lot of damage.
5. Stay mobile.
6. Save your stealth for when they lose theirs.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Trianox.3486 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Trianox.3486 what you missed is the part that you dont burst with stealth skill but with stab from 3 instead, at least when you want to 1shot somebody.so instead of long ambush skill that is easy to dodge you have stab along with steal, instantly from stealth that deals over 8k damage and applies all manner of nastiness like weakness,cripple,vulnerability. and THEN over the course of 1s you get bombared with over 10k dmg still.Mirage can MANAGE fight with thief with cooldowns, but mirage by no way counters cthiefand thats assuming you hit from stealth, nothing stops you from simply 3->steal for almost 10k, spam 8k repeaters, stealth, use plasma, 3->f1 again and then you have quickness for repeater that follows and you get another 20k within 20-30sAnd when you start getting clever you can throw 2 or 4 before casting 3/steal when enemy is distracted for even more damage or CC. Combo lands as the skills reach the target so for the enemy its instant too

Well buddy, you brought up that "burst from 1k". I too pointed that skill3 was the big hitter, yet you said bleeding was a cover condi. You're kind of invalidating some of your own things there. :-/

But regardless, yes this is what I have been saying from the start. Don't let the thief use that P/D skill3 more than once and even then, if you dodge during his animation you cut massively the damage taken. And of he kept his steal to do 3-steal-3, then dodge and use any of the mirage evade skill as he ports in. Unless you have high lag, it should be doable.

I'm not sure what other prooves I can bring to you other than suggest to go watch both top thieves and top Mesmer gamers and how they deal with one another (which is of course not the vast majority of players), or actually just some average gameplay.

Without going in hyperbola... Tell me if that captures our discussion or not:

• I think that overall we're saying more or less the same thing about damage output potential. Our numbers are in the same brackets.
• the main difference is that you seem to think there is not enough counter Play, while I seem to think there are more than enough. Is that right?
• you say Mirage can manage chief, I say it can counter it.

Last point would be: what makes Mirage able to manage cthief?Isn't it Mirage own stealth, CC, port-in/out, and evades? Or is capacity to burst (altho of course deminiahed over the months) or all of that together?

you are missing the point.your burst is stealth attack that has channel combined with steal.most of the damage from your combo is fully negated by having a good reaction time.those kind of thiefs are no issue, as always I dont speak for bad mirage vs bad thief since in the end the biggest retard usually loses.im speaking for properly played cthief vs properly played mirage. and most definitely mirage is not a counter.

I need you to understand that main cleanse from mirage is a dodge, if its used there is no more "real" cleansing, the other main way of mitigating conditions is disortion.but to have it last you need to have illusions. all thief has to do is burst mirage when their dodge is down and they have no clones up.it takes "patience" at best you will wait 3s and then mirage can not survive.no cleansing to remove damaging conditions, and to get F4 you have to use slow generation of clones that will also trigger confusion, you just die.

The reason I say mirage can "manage" thief is since cthief is easy to escape from and thats about it, if they fail you can punish and if you have all cooldowns you can run.this is better then averages when it comes to thief vs mesmer matchups.