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Do you know what separates a good rune from a shitty one?One line - line nr 6.Good one will have a great, build defining bonus there while bad one something useless and still pretend it's a viable choice.

So without further ado few examples of good/bad runes and why:

The good:

1. Rune of Tormenting - excellent rune, the health on applying torment is a build defining feature, allowing for crazy things like condi core necro that can handle xpac content.2. Rune of Aristocracy - good rune. Allows for might stacking by applying weakness - here it's you who decides how much you get outta it with adjusting weakness output on your build rather than getting something like "3 stacks of might on using a heal skill and shut up!"3. Rune of antitoxin - great rune. Once again build defining rune. Allows for builds with weaker, but more frequent condi cleanses to shine and deal easier with constant condi pressure such as burn guards or scepter necros.4. Rune of the Stars & Rune of the Swanir - good runes. Not everything purely passive has to be boring. These offers condi duration reduction for particular ones (weakness, cripple, chill) well before 6th line bonus (which offers incoming condi duration and damage reduction).5. Rune of Vampirism - a great case of rune synergizing with itself - it heals you for 10% max hp on a kill, while itself providing vitality bonuses and 10% max health bonus. Good design is good.

The bad:

1. Rune of necromancer - bad boring rune. 300 condi damage is the only good part. But 20% fear duration as 6th bonus?? There are runes that give 20% all condi duration, not something as fringe as fear...2. Rune of thorns - before that rune had an interesting mechanic of stacking condi damage bonus if hit by poisoned enemy. Now it's just poison duration + condi damage, nothing comparable to Rune of Tormenting that while has less condi damage, has outstanding bonus at 6th line3. Rune of the Mad King - the birds are awesome, but why a massive bleed duration bonus on a non-condi rune? Is there some profession that vastly profits from having extremely weak but very long lasting bleeds??4. Rune of Krait - a single stack of poison, bleed and torment on using an elite with 30s icd?? What is that supposed to do? If you're running this rune, then you're condi build and have tons of condi stacks on the enemy already. Rune of Sunless is far better - it at least applies fear, giving you an opportunity for a surprise cc and a nice condi bomb follow up!5. Rune of Divinity - like wow, this one takes the cake. It couldn't be more passive if it died... Pretty useless all stat bonus (weak) ending with 10% max hp gain...something a lot of other runes have as well...except they DO something while having it...

We need runes to be more synergetic with player builds and actions. How much a player gets outta rune should be decided but his build and actions, not hard capped on a rune itself. Also runes that support something (like auras duration) should themselves give the effect they boost. How many professions simply can't use rune of Radiance because they can't create auras themselves or their ability to do so is too limited?

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@Taril.8619 said:Most Runes and Sigils could do with updates to make them feel relevant and interesting parts of a build.

Right now, there's so many bad ones that are just pointless to exist as there are really cheap and more effective alternatives.

Id wager there are just as many stat combinations that likewise, either need something built with them in mind or just need to be reworked/removed. Some cover the same area's and of course when choosing between them you likely will come to your own conclusion; Im not gonna be upset if they consolidate some state sets into one another to make them less cluttered.

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@"maddoctor.2738" said:Don't worry if they want to "tweak" runes/sigils they will take some irrelevant/useless ones and add them as materials for collections in gigantic numbers to inflate their prices.

Are you refering to the Superior Sigil of Nullification, which is still overpriced for what it does? I could necro a very specific thread about that. Using these things in collections is a poor way to raise their value. They should stand on their own as runes and sigils, not be artificially inflated by a collection. I actually gave up on that collection because I got fed up with the price of what should be a cheap sigil as it has little build value. The generosity sigil removes a condition AND transfers it to a foe but is cheaper because it is not in a collection. No more of this nonsense please.

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@"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

5. Rune of Divinity - like wow, this one takes the cake. It couldn't be more passive if it died... Pretty useless all stat bonus (weak) ending with 10% max hp gain...something a lot of other runes have as well...except they DO something while having it...

this "bad" rune is better then 3 of your "good" runes together nr 4 and 5 in good runes are bad and nr 2 or 3 also

see not everything is around pve, i love divinity rune on certain classes in WvW, yes it doesnt do the big bad baller dmg but it gives me exactly what i want + the bonus HP so i can bang on some other gear parts without vitality :)

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@"Hannelore.8153" said:Unfortunately while this kind of work on the game was very common in the first few years, now that the game's getting old the devs seem unwilling to change much if anything about the established balance, especially on items.

The devs did a rune and sigil rework in 2018, but I doubt they will do more reworks now...

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

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@Super Hayes.6890 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Don't worry if they want to "tweak" runes/sigils they will take some irrelevant/useless ones and add them as materials for collections in gigantic numbers to inflate their prices.

Are you refering to the Superior Sigil of Nullification, which is still overpriced for what it does? I could necro a very specific thread about that. Using these things in collections is a poor way to raise their value. They should stand on their own as runes and sigils, not be artificially inflated by a collection. I actually gave up on that collection because I got fed up with the price of what should be a cheap sigil as it has little build value. The generosity sigil removes a condition AND transfers it to a foe but is cheaper because it is not in a collection. No more of this nonsense please.

Yep I was referring to the sigil of nullification. I posted in that other thread numerous times, condemning what they did, I also took a very long 6 month break from the game when they released that episode and turned some very few people into filthy rich individuals. I don't want them to do anything like that ever again, it's just a possibility to increase the value of sigils/runes without altering them. I guess I should've added a /s at the end of my previous post.

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@Super Hayes.6890 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Don't worry if they want to "tweak" runes/sigils they will take some irrelevant/useless ones and add them as materials for collections in gigantic numbers to inflate their prices.

Are you refering to the Superior Sigil of Nullification, which is still overpriced for what it does? I could necro a very specific thread about that. Using these things in collections is a poor way to raise their value. They should stand on their own as runes and sigils, not be artificially inflated by a collection. I actually gave up on that collection because I got fed up with the price of what should be a cheap sigil as it has little build value. The generosity sigil removes a condition AND transfers it to a foe but is cheaper because it is not in a collection. No more of this nonsense please.

Are you doing something stupid like trying to craft them? Instant buy price is 8s53c. IIRC whole collection requires around 25. That is a total of 2g13s25c. Easily covered by daily completionist.

As for the actual strength of the sigil. It provides an ability that can otherwise be difficult or impossible for a build to get.

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When I look through various build sites, there is way too much repetition of the same runes.

These are basically set bonuses if this were another MMO, so if I go through something like Elder Scrolls Online builds - I also see a lot of repetition, and the community there complains about that... but it's about half of what I see here.

There, there's maybe 10-15 common 'sets' for DPSers, and tanks and healers have maybe 3 or 4 sets...

Here it's like the same 5-6 runes appear in 90% of builds.

But in both cases, the further "up" you go in the meta, the tighter that list gets. 'Top ranked' players basically having a choice of this build, or that one, or get out.

Yet Guild Wars 2 has about as many runes as ESO has sets. It's not really excusable for the community to 'abandon' more than 30%-40# of your 'sets'... If that happens, it means they're in severe need of a redesign.

I don't know what that redesign looks like - but I think making the rune synergize with itself well is probably a key ingredient.

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Divinity/Revenant/Zephyrite are all pretty terrible.

I think a lot of the problems comes from the fact that they dropped the original design where there was a 2/4/6 piece effect. That allowed for 2+2+2 or 4+2 or 6 setups. When they changed that they got left with more runessets than they need. I guess deleting from the game wasn't an option so we got these crappy sets instead.

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@Khisanth.2948 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Don't worry if they want to "tweak" runes/sigils they will take some irrelevant/useless ones and add them as materials for collections in gigantic numbers to inflate their prices.

Are you refering to the Superior Sigil of Nullification, which is still overpriced for what it does? I could necro a very specific thread about that. Using these things in collections is a poor way to raise their value. They should stand on their own as runes and sigils, not be artificially inflated by a collection. I actually gave up on that collection because I got fed up with the price of what should be a cheap sigil as it has little build value. The generosity sigil removes a condition AND transfers it to a foe but is cheaper because it is not in a collection. No more of this nonsense please.

Are you doing something stupid like trying to craft them? Instant buy price is 8s53c. IIRC whole collection requires around 25. That is a total of 2g13s25c. Easily covered by daily completionist.

As for the actual strength of the sigil. It provides an ability that can otherwise be difficult or impossible for a build to get.

Nullification sigil is down to 8s? Haven't looked at it in months. Last I checked they were still over 2g each. Abandoned that collection a long time ago but if they are back down to that amount I'll finish it. Thanks for the heads up. I hope they never make a sigil a collectable again!

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@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:3. Rune of the Mad King - the birds are awesome, but why a massive bleed duration bonus on a non-condi rune? Is there some profession that vastly profits from having extremely weak but very long lasting bleeds??

So before anet goes and reworks any of this I will say: I would much prefer getting new runes than removing existing ones. I think the point is many different possibilities for builds. And this rune could go well with Earth Ele. I actually use sigils of smoldering and agony as boon tempest because it probably has same result for me as some meta condi dmg sigil that costs too much for me. It's a decent budget option imo.But yeah. Just saying I appreciate the variety. It gives more options for those who want to make their own builds, and I can tell you building is fun provided you have resources.

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Balance is tricky, because no matter what you do, there will always be some best combination (or counter, is you make everything so similar that there is no difference, which is boring in a different way).There are a few different best combinations because of variation in roles/type of damage - runes for support characters is different than those doing damage. And some variation in game mode which may benefit from different runes.There are a lot of different runes, but not that many different environments/roles, so there will likely always be some runes which are inferior to some other combination.

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