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Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Posted
Posted

@Animism.7530 said:

Let’s start with a dev quote...

“We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment.”

...

Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So I want you to explain to the community exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”?

A good quote to see - though it doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake, which I think they have somewhere down the line.

First of all; there is little use asking me for statistical data, a player, writing constructive criticism to a large, wealthy company who manage the game.Second I'm not sure what you are referring to with "cash only". Please see one of my previous comments breaking down your question in more detail. Suffice to say, the requirement over items is not what we're discussing here.

I think you would have to read the discussion thread further to find that answer; as I can only reiterate the basis of it so many times.

I did not ask you for “statistical data“. Surely you can answer those simplified questions.

@Swagger.1459"Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then
I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals
... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So
I want you to explain to the community
exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”? "

Those 3 questions do not ask for “statistical data”. 2 of them ask what items are cash only purchases in the gemstore that allow you to “win” over other players in the various game modes? What items can I only buy with cash that lets me beat everyone in wvw and spvp who didn’t buy those gemstore items? What cash only items allow me to beat raid and fractal bosses faster than players who didn’t buy those cash only gemstore items? Hmmm?

You accuse Anet of being “predatory”, yet you can’t answer those simple questions to the community who reads this?

The level of data and inferences you are asking for are best served and detected by Arenanet. We do not have access to their metrics. It's mostly only appropriate to comment on the reality of the situation (the end product), rather than the theory utilised which is largely an unknown factor.

You are also confusing the points being made and the initial vertical progression system in the game, and I don't want to keep reiterating it.

So you are admitting you don’t know what “pay to win” is?

These questions are simple and do not require “statistical data” or “metrics”. You are clearly avoiding the questions because you cannot back up your claims. You can’t even answer a simple question calling out your “predatory” comments against a game that doesn’t charge players a monthly sub and that allows players to acquire any item off the gem store for FREE by exchanging gold to gems.

You are clearly confused with the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Fine.. I'll respond to you even though your questions are answered through multiple of my previous comments and I made a point of that.

I didn't say that cosmetics are required; I said that they end up being the sole purpose of the game, inherently through the horizontal progression system after the initial brief vertical progression. I even gave an analogy contrasting it directly to a vertical system and how microtransactions are generally received throughout different games.

The remarks of Arenanet's tactics by me, and I'm quite sure the OP and others; relates to the design of the game inherently favouring people who are willing to pay for every item in their game through the purchasing of gems; and it equally undermines the value of those items. Hence; it can be called a wallet game.If you find something you fancy in this horizontal progression game (cosmetics.. after point 1...), the most viable way to get them (also factoring that the items that people tend to want to obtain tend to be in these later days of GW2 designed for the gem store) are designed by Arenanet to be through the gem store, for real-world money purchases.

You did not answer those specific questions. You are deflecting because the answers do not fit your accusations, or you are confused on the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Ok. I'll leave this again to the scrutiny of the reader as it is perfectly clear...

And most readers will see that you are either deflecting by not answering or confused with certain terms.

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Animism.7530

Animism.7530

Posted
Posted

@Swagger.1459 said:

Let’s start with a dev quote...

“We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment.”

...

Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So I want you to explain to the community exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”?

A good quote to see - though it doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake, which I think they have somewhere down the line.

First of all; there is little use asking me for statistical data, a player, writing constructive criticism to a large, wealthy company who manage the game.Second I'm not sure what you are referring to with "cash only". Please see one of my previous comments breaking down your question in more detail. Suffice to say, the requirement over items is not what we're discussing here.

I think you would have to read the discussion thread further to find that answer; as I can only reiterate the basis of it so many times.

I did not ask you for “statistical data“. Surely you can answer those simplified questions.

@Swagger.1459"Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then
I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals
... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So
I want you to explain to the community
exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”? "

Those 3 questions do not ask for “statistical data”. 2 of them ask what items are cash only purchases in the gemstore that allow you to “win” over other players in the various game modes? What items can I only buy with cash that lets me beat everyone in wvw and spvp who didn’t buy those gemstore items? What cash only items allow me to beat raid and fractal bosses faster than players who didn’t buy those cash only gemstore items? Hmmm?

You accuse Anet of being “predatory”, yet you can’t answer those simple questions to the community who reads this?

The level of data and inferences you are asking for are best served and detected by Arenanet. We do not have access to their metrics. It's mostly only appropriate to comment on the reality of the situation (the end product), rather than the theory utilised which is largely an unknown factor.

You are also confusing the points being made and the initial vertical progression system in the game, and I don't want to keep reiterating it.

So you are admitting you don’t know what “pay to win” is?

These questions are simple and do not require “statistical data” or “metrics”. You are clearly avoiding the questions because you cannot back up your claims. You can’t even answer a simple question calling out your “predatory” comments against a game that doesn’t charge players a monthly sub and that allows players to acquire any item off the gem store for FREE by exchanging gold to gems.

You are clearly confused with the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Fine.. I'll respond to you even though your questions are answered through multiple of my previous comments and I made a point of that.

I didn't say that cosmetics are required; I said that they end up being the sole purpose of the game, inherently through the horizontal progression system after the initial brief vertical progression. I even gave an analogy contrasting it directly to a vertical system and how microtransactions are generally received throughout different games.

The remarks of Arenanet's tactics by me, and I'm quite sure the OP and others; relates to the design of the game inherently favouring people who are willing to pay for every item in their game through the purchasing of gems; and it equally undermines the value of those items. Hence; it can be called a wallet game.If you find something you fancy in this horizontal progression game (cosmetics.. after point 1...), the most viable way to get them (also factoring that the items that people tend to want to obtain tend to be in these later days of GW2 designed for the gem store) are designed by Arenanet to be through the gem store, for real-world money purchases.

You did not answer those specific questions. You are deflecting because the answers do not fit your accusations, or you are confused on the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Ok. I'll leave this again to the scrutiny of the reader as it is perfectly clear...

And most readers will see that you are either deflecting by not answering or confused with certain terms.

No... You are asking questions that do not even relate to the point; questions that were already answered previously and not being appropriate to what was being proposed.

I say I'll leave it to the scrutiny of the reader, because I am confident that what I have said makes enough sense and that someone with equal analysis of the points in mind and language used, will come to a similar conclusion.

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Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Posted
Posted

@Animism.7530 said:

Let’s start with a dev quote...

“We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment.”

...

Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So I want you to explain to the community exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”?

A good quote to see - though it doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake, which I think they have somewhere down the line.

First of all; there is little use asking me for statistical data, a player, writing constructive criticism to a large, wealthy company who manage the game.Second I'm not sure what you are referring to with "cash only". Please see one of my previous comments breaking down your question in more detail. Suffice to say, the requirement over items is not what we're discussing here.

I think you would have to read the discussion thread further to find that answer; as I can only reiterate the basis of it so many times.

I did not ask you for “statistical data“. Surely you can answer those simplified questions.

@Swagger.1459"Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then
I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals
... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So
I want you to explain to the community
exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”? "

Those 3 questions do not ask for “statistical data”. 2 of them ask what items are cash only purchases in the gemstore that allow you to “win” over other players in the various game modes? What items can I only buy with cash that lets me beat everyone in wvw and spvp who didn’t buy those gemstore items? What cash only items allow me to beat raid and fractal bosses faster than players who didn’t buy those cash only gemstore items? Hmmm?

You accuse Anet of being “predatory”, yet you can’t answer those simple questions to the community who reads this?

The level of data and inferences you are asking for are best served and detected by Arenanet. We do not have access to their metrics. It's mostly only appropriate to comment on the reality of the situation (the end product), rather than the theory utilised which is largely an unknown factor.

You are also confusing the points being made and the initial vertical progression system in the game, and I don't want to keep reiterating it.

So you are admitting you don’t know what “pay to win” is?

These questions are simple and do not require “statistical data” or “metrics”. You are clearly avoiding the questions because you cannot back up your claims. You can’t even answer a simple question calling out your “predatory” comments against a game that doesn’t charge players a monthly sub and that allows players to acquire any item off the gem store for FREE by exchanging gold to gems.

You are clearly confused with the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Fine.. I'll respond to you even though your questions are answered through multiple of my previous comments and I made a point of that.

I didn't say that cosmetics are required; I said that they end up being the sole purpose of the game, inherently through the horizontal progression system after the initial brief vertical progression. I even gave an analogy contrasting it directly to a vertical system and how microtransactions are generally received throughout different games.

The remarks of Arenanet's tactics by me, and I'm quite sure the OP and others; relates to the design of the game inherently favouring people who are willing to pay for every item in their game through the purchasing of gems; and it equally undermines the value of those items. Hence; it can be called a wallet game.If you find something you fancy in this horizontal progression game (cosmetics.. after point 1...), the most viable way to get them (also factoring that the items that people tend to want to obtain tend to be in these later days of GW2 designed for the gem store) are designed by Arenanet to be through the gem store, for real-world money purchases.

You did not answer those specific questions. You are deflecting because the answers do not fit your accusations, or you are confused on the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Ok. I'll leave this again to the scrutiny of the reader as it is perfectly clear...

And most readers will see that you are either deflecting by not answering or confused with certain terms.

No... You are asking questions that do not even relate to the point; questions that were already answered previously and not being appropriate to what was being proposed.

I say I'll leave it to the scrutiny of the reader, because I am confident that what I have said makes enough sense and that someone with equal analysis of the points in mind and language used, will come to a similar conclusion.

Yeah? How is my prettier mount skin giving me a power advantage over another player in wvw and spvp?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items can I buy that lets me beat a player who didn't buy that item?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items let me beat raid bosses faster than a player who didn't buy them?

Yeah.. Anet is so "predatory" and walking a moral line by NOT charging a subscription fee and allowing all players to buy anything off the gem store for FREE by exchanging gold to gems... Riiiiiight....

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Animism.7530

Animism.7530

Posted
Posted

@Swagger.1459 said:

Let’s start with a dev quote...

“We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment.”

...

Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So I want you to explain to the community exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”?

A good quote to see - though it doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake, which I think they have somewhere down the line.

First of all; there is little use asking me for statistical data, a player, writing constructive criticism to a large, wealthy company who manage the game.Second I'm not sure what you are referring to with "cash only". Please see one of my previous comments breaking down your question in more detail. Suffice to say, the requirement over items is not what we're discussing here.

I think you would have to read the discussion thread further to find that answer; as I can only reiterate the basis of it so many times.

I did not ask you for “statistical data“. Surely you can answer those simplified questions.

@Swagger.1459"Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then
I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals
... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So
I want you to explain to the community
exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”? "

Those 3 questions do not ask for “statistical data”. 2 of them ask what items are cash only purchases in the gemstore that allow you to “win” over other players in the various game modes? What items can I only buy with cash that lets me beat everyone in wvw and spvp who didn’t buy those gemstore items? What cash only items allow me to beat raid and fractal bosses faster than players who didn’t buy those cash only gemstore items? Hmmm?

You accuse Anet of being “predatory”, yet you can’t answer those simple questions to the community who reads this?

The level of data and inferences you are asking for are best served and detected by Arenanet. We do not have access to their metrics. It's mostly only appropriate to comment on the reality of the situation (the end product), rather than the theory utilised which is largely an unknown factor.

You are also confusing the points being made and the initial vertical progression system in the game, and I don't want to keep reiterating it.

So you are admitting you don’t know what “pay to win” is?

These questions are simple and do not require “statistical data” or “metrics”. You are clearly avoiding the questions because you cannot back up your claims. You can’t even answer a simple question calling out your “predatory” comments against a game that doesn’t charge players a monthly sub and that allows players to acquire any item off the gem store for FREE by exchanging gold to gems.

You are clearly confused with the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Fine.. I'll respond to you even though your questions are answered through multiple of my previous comments and I made a point of that.

I didn't say that cosmetics are required; I said that they end up being the sole purpose of the game, inherently through the horizontal progression system after the initial brief vertical progression. I even gave an analogy contrasting it directly to a vertical system and how microtransactions are generally received throughout different games.

The remarks of Arenanet's tactics by me, and I'm quite sure the OP and others; relates to the design of the game inherently favouring people who are willing to pay for every item in their game through the purchasing of gems; and it equally undermines the value of those items. Hence; it can be called a wallet game.If you find something you fancy in this horizontal progression game (cosmetics.. after point 1...), the most viable way to get them (also factoring that the items that people tend to want to obtain tend to be in these later days of GW2 designed for the gem store) are designed by Arenanet to be through the gem store, for real-world money purchases.

You did not answer those specific questions. You are deflecting because the answers do not fit your accusations, or you are confused on the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Ok. I'll leave this again to the scrutiny of the reader as it is perfectly clear...

And most readers will see that you are either deflecting by not answering or confused with certain terms.

No... You are asking questions that do not even relate to the point; questions that were already answered previously and not being appropriate to what was being proposed.

I say I'll leave it to the scrutiny of the reader, because I am confident that what I have said makes enough sense and that someone with equal analysis of the points in mind and language used, will come to a similar conclusion.

Yeah? How is my prettier mount skin giving me a power advantage over another player in wvw and spvp?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items can I buy that let's me beat player who didn't buy that item?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items let me beat raid bosses faster than a player who didn't buy them?

Yeah.. Anet is so "predatory" and walking a moral line by NOT charging a subscription fee and allowing all players to buy anything off the gem store by exchanging gold to gems... Riiiiiight....

Why are you asking those questions regarding pay to win for a vertical progression system, for a game that I've mentioned multiple times is a horizontal system?

Putting things in caps lock won't make your questions any more relevant.

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Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Posted
Posted

@Animism.7530 said:

Let’s start with a dev quote...

“We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment.”

...

Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So I want you to explain to the community exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”?

A good quote to see - though it doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake, which I think they have somewhere down the line.

First of all; there is little use asking me for statistical data, a player, writing constructive criticism to a large, wealthy company who manage the game.Second I'm not sure what you are referring to with "cash only". Please see one of my previous comments breaking down your question in more detail. Suffice to say, the requirement over items is not what we're discussing here.

I think you would have to read the discussion thread further to find that answer; as I can only reiterate the basis of it so many times.

I did not ask you for “statistical data“. Surely you can answer those simplified questions.

@Swagger.1459"Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then
I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals
... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So
I want you to explain to the community
exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”? "

Those 3 questions do not ask for “statistical data”. 2 of them ask what items are cash only purchases in the gemstore that allow you to “win” over other players in the various game modes? What items can I only buy with cash that lets me beat everyone in wvw and spvp who didn’t buy those gemstore items? What cash only items allow me to beat raid and fractal bosses faster than players who didn’t buy those cash only gemstore items? Hmmm?

You accuse Anet of being “predatory”, yet you can’t answer those simple questions to the community who reads this?

The level of data and inferences you are asking for are best served and detected by Arenanet. We do not have access to their metrics. It's mostly only appropriate to comment on the reality of the situation (the end product), rather than the theory utilised which is largely an unknown factor.

You are also confusing the points being made and the initial vertical progression system in the game, and I don't want to keep reiterating it.

So you are admitting you don’t know what “pay to win” is?

These questions are simple and do not require “statistical data” or “metrics”. You are clearly avoiding the questions because you cannot back up your claims. You can’t even answer a simple question calling out your “predatory” comments against a game that doesn’t charge players a monthly sub and that allows players to acquire any item off the gem store for FREE by exchanging gold to gems.

You are clearly confused with the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Fine.. I'll respond to you even though your questions are answered through multiple of my previous comments and I made a point of that.

I didn't say that cosmetics are required; I said that they end up being the sole purpose of the game, inherently through the horizontal progression system after the initial brief vertical progression. I even gave an analogy contrasting it directly to a vertical system and how microtransactions are generally received throughout different games.

The remarks of Arenanet's tactics by me, and I'm quite sure the OP and others; relates to the design of the game inherently favouring people who are willing to pay for every item in their game through the purchasing of gems; and it equally undermines the value of those items. Hence; it can be called a wallet game.If you find something you fancy in this horizontal progression game (cosmetics.. after point 1...), the most viable way to get them (also factoring that the items that people tend to want to obtain tend to be in these later days of GW2 designed for the gem store) are designed by Arenanet to be through the gem store, for real-world money purchases.

You did not answer those specific questions. You are deflecting because the answers do not fit your accusations, or you are confused on the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Ok. I'll leave this again to the scrutiny of the reader as it is perfectly clear...

And most readers will see that you are either deflecting by not answering or confused with certain terms.

No... You are asking questions that do not even relate to the point; questions that were already answered previously and not being appropriate to what was being proposed.

I say I'll leave it to the scrutiny of the reader, because I am confident that what I have said makes enough sense and that someone with equal analysis of the points in mind and language used, will come to a similar conclusion.

Yeah? How is my prettier mount skin giving me a power advantage over another player in wvw and spvp?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items can I buy that let's me beat player who didn't buy that item?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items let me beat raid bosses faster than a player who didn't buy them?

Yeah.. Anet is so "predatory" and walking a moral line by NOT charging a subscription fee and allowing all players to buy anything off the gem store by exchanging gold to gems... Riiiiiight....

Why are you asking those questions regarding pay to win for a vertical progression system, for a game that I've mentioned multiple times is a horizontal system?

Putting things in caps lock won't make your questions any more relevant.

Why? You accused Anet of pay to win stuff and being predatory, yet you cannot clearly explain why. You are either willfully ignoring the questions because they do not fit your accusations, or you are confused on the terms of "pay to win" and "predatory".

Should be easy for you to answer the questions if you are correct, but you don't and are not correct.

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robertthebard.8150

robertthebard.8150

Posted
Posted

@Animism.7530 said:

Let’s start with a dev quote...

“We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment.”

...

Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So I want you to explain to the community exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”?

A good quote to see - though it doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake, which I think they have somewhere down the line.

First of all; there is little use asking me for statistical data, a player, writing constructive criticism to a large, wealthy company who manage the game.Second I'm not sure what you are referring to with "cash only". Please see one of my previous comments breaking down your question in more detail. Suffice to say, the requirement over items is not what we're discussing here.

I think you would have to read the discussion thread further to find that answer; as I can only reiterate the basis of it so many times.

I did not ask you for “statistical data“. Surely you can answer those simplified questions.

@Swagger.1459"Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then
I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals
... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So
I want you to explain to the community
exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”? "

Those 3 questions do not ask for “statistical data”. 2 of them ask what items are cash only purchases in the gemstore that allow you to “win” over other players in the various game modes? What items can I only buy with cash that lets me beat everyone in wvw and spvp who didn’t buy those gemstore items? What cash only items allow me to beat raid and fractal bosses faster than players who didn’t buy those cash only gemstore items? Hmmm?

You accuse Anet of being “predatory”, yet you can’t answer those simple questions to the community who reads this?

The level of data and inferences you are asking for are best served and detected by Arenanet. We do not have access to their metrics. It's mostly only appropriate to comment on the reality of the situation (the end product), rather than the theory utilised which is largely an unknown factor.

You are also confusing the points being made and the initial vertical progression system in the game, and I don't want to keep reiterating it.

So you are admitting you don’t know what “pay to win” is?

These questions are simple and do not require “statistical data” or “metrics”. You are clearly avoiding the questions because you cannot back up your claims. You can’t even answer a simple question calling out your “predatory” comments against a game that doesn’t charge players a monthly sub and that allows players to acquire any item off the gem store for FREE by exchanging gold to gems.

You are clearly confused with the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Fine.. I'll respond to you even though your questions are answered through multiple of my previous comments and I made a point of that.

I didn't say that cosmetics are required; I said that they end up being the sole purpose of the game, inherently through the horizontal progression system after the initial brief vertical progression. I even gave an analogy contrasting it directly to a vertical system and how microtransactions are generally received throughout different games.

The remarks of Arenanet's tactics by me, and I'm quite sure the OP and others; relates to the design of the game inherently favouring people who are willing to pay for every item in their game through the purchasing of gems; and it equally undermines the value of those items. Hence; it can be called a wallet game.If you find something you fancy in this horizontal progression game (cosmetics.. after point 1...), the most viable way to get them (also factoring that the items that people tend to want to obtain tend to be in these later days of GW2 designed for the gem store) are designed by Arenanet to be through the gem store, for real-world money purchases.

You did not answer those specific questions. You are deflecting because the answers do not fit your accusations, or you are confused on the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Ok. I'll leave this again to the scrutiny of the reader as it is perfectly clear...

And most readers will see that you are either deflecting by not answering or confused with certain terms.

No... You are asking questions that do not even relate to the point; questions that were already answered previously and not being appropriate to what was being proposed.

I say I'll leave it to the scrutiny of the reader, because I am confident that what I have said makes enough sense and that someone with equal analysis of the points in mind and language used, will come to a similar conclusion.

Yeah? How is my prettier mount skin giving me a power advantage over another player in wvw and spvp?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items can I buy that let's me beat player who didn't buy that item?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items let me beat raid bosses faster than a player who didn't buy them?

Yeah.. Anet is so "predatory" and walking a moral line by NOT charging a subscription fee and allowing all players to buy anything off the gem store by exchanging gold to gems... Riiiiiight....

Why are you asking those questions regarding pay to win for a vertical progression system, for a game that I've mentioned multiple times is a horizontal system?

Putting things in caps lock won't make your questions any more relevant.

Because P2W isn't an abstract, but has an actual meaning. None of the stuff I buy adversely affects any other player in the game, unless they're mad at how much bank space I have? Maybe they're mad because I have a flying carpet glider skin, or can equip an outfit until I get to my final armor, or even after, if I don't like that skin, instead of using up my alteration charges?

To keep this closer to the topic, so I don't have to hear from a moderator again:

How does how many character slots I have affect your gameplay? How does what skins I'm using on my mounts affect your game play? I don't even have all of the mounts. So you see, the "On Topic" response to "but this is predatory, and P2W" is "No, it's not. It's the least predatory system out there". My Skimmer isn't shooting lasers out of it's eyes, does it even have eyes, because I got a different skin, if I got a different skin. My Springer can't suddenly trump a griffon or sky scale because it has a different skin. My Raptor didn't suddenly make every other mount in the game irrelevant because of a new skin. Having 14 character slots didn't suddenly make me able to beat everyone in PvP, or to be able to solo T4 Fractals. So what am I "winning" for it to be P2W?

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robertthebard.8150

robertthebard.8150

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@Animism.7530 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

You are playing a game. Not grocery shopping in real life.

Stop trying to justify spending real-life money amounts for clothes on in-game clothes and/or QOL items.

Ok, as soon as someone points me to where the game requires me to own those outfits? Just like that poster's example of cereal in an aisle at Wal-Mart, I'm not required to buy any of that either. You see, you don't need that stuff, and it just being there, being for sale, isn't predatory.

Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please.

OK, and none of that gear progression requires me to have all the mount skins, or all the races and classes and sexes. None of that gear progression requires me to have all of the available outfits either. I think I may have three outfits right now, and I think I only purchased one of those, the others came from freebies from the store, or maybe an event in one case, I'm not sure where it came from. So now that I'm reminded of the gear progression, what does that have to do with the topic of the thread? I currently have 14 character slots, and one of them is empty, but I can only run one character at a time. So there's no real advantage there, other than I can all the crafters w/out buying anything extra. I didn't need that many characters to do that, I think I could have done it with the base characters you get with an account, and the expansions.

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Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

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@Animism.7530 said:

@"Lutharr.1035" said:i think people are purposefully ignoing what was written to just fanboy defend Anet.

When they saying paying sub money they clearly mean that in other MMO's you can get a months subscription for the price of 1 single mount skin. I wont argue if the price is fair or not tbh. But it does seem folks want to ignore the fact that the gem store is a bit predatory when it comes to items sold for convience. Oh and saying other predatory games are more predatory doesn't mean it's right to be so.

Yes, as much as you're ignoring the fact op says things like "you have to buy mount skins because base ones look worse" or character slots are too expensive because "I want every race/sex/class combination". Nothing about those cosmetic items is even close to being "must have".

How about builds for a single character, and multiple armour sets?

But, what are you trying to do here, list anything that's available for purchase? Is this anything you need to play and enjoy the game? I think it's not worth the price
so I didn't buy any and I'm doing perfectly fine
. What is the point you're trying to make here? Somehow you can't play the game without additional build templates, while I easly can? I don't get it.

How about bag slots for a main character that you farm with. You think people aren't going to expect being able to reasonably get those extra easy 20 slots in game, most often near the start of playing GW2? Nope. The best gold farms are time-gated, and the most repetitive ones are trash farming. But ohhhhh... only £8.50 for 40 slots.. I guess we should whip out our wallet...

To be honest, I don't exactly remember the pricing or what they were included with. I most probably bought some on sales and I didn't exactly feel the cost you're complaining about here, but I'm not sure how many I've had included with expansions and whatnot, so I can't respond with 100% certainty.What I know on the other hand is that there are 1-2 sales each year that discount the price of bag slots to 240-280 gems each. (meaning 40% and 30% discounts respectively). That's 3 bag slots for less than 10 €
OR ~80-90 gold per inventory bag slot, which isn't exactly an unbelievably high amount of ingame currency to farm
. Is this fair? That's subjective. But I sure don't have a problem with farming up 80-90 gold for that IF I ever need any more slots. And that's without "whipping out our wallet...", but by playing the game without constant gear treadmil, which is what you'd be perpetually farming for in other games instead.

Pretty sure saying that most good gold farms are time-gated is for the most part just... wrong.

I keep in mind that
this is still a better point than what OP said
, but I don't think that's remotely close to being "predatory" when you can EASLY(!!!) get that for ingame currency, especially when you start thinking about actually farming gold.

Let me sum this up for you easily and succinctly.

Ah yes, thank you for thinking about my tiny brain's limited capacity.

Take a look at the period when Legendary armour was released. How many top-tier shiny, well-designed outfits were there on the gemstore?....... How about now? Arenanet are quite literally throwing every game element at our faces for a price. If people can't see that this is disgustingly predatory with these points in mind, then I don't know what the hell they are thinking.

Ok. I'm looking at the period when legendary armor was released and see all the "shiny well-designed" (as in "badly designed" doesn't happen there, right?)
fully cosmetic, absolutely unneeded, glittery glowy sexy outfits from the gemstore
and all I can do is ask: how is this relevant to your point?You're literally responding to the post where I wrote (and I'm not the only one saying that btw) OP is mostly complaining about skins that DON'T DIRECTLY INFLUENCE THE GAMEPLAY, but instead are PURLY COSMETIC ITEMS and... OUTFITS IN GEMSTORE is what your "easy and succinctly summary" is primarily based on? I'm confused.

Ah and not sure why you compare legendary armors to simply over-textured outfits when legendary armors are in the category of their own in the department of utility and that's attainable through gameplay. I'm one of those people that run legendary armor for its utility/flexibility and I "skinned over it" by using an outfit that I've opened from the BL Chest using
free keys
I run for weekly. Maybe I'm some greatly unique example (doubt) in this case, but seriously it seems you're saying this to the wrong person. If you're interested in playing the game then play the game and there's more than you think you can get without spending actual money.

I would have rather paid a monthly subscription than be bombarded with skins and have an economy managed directly by Arenanet through gemstore sales.

That's cool, you're allowed to have that opinion. But I disagree. And out of curiosity: why do you actually care so much about new skins added to the gemstore (some of which I also bought through gold>gem conversion, but not a lot, because I don't feel the need to "catch them all")? How exactly does this UNNEEDED addition to the game change your enjoyment of playing an mmorpg?Even moreso when you'd rather pay monthly subscription...? Then pay it through gemstore, I guess?

It didn't solve real-world trading as far as I can tell
and has dire consequences as we see in the present.

It is unequivocally the most loathsome part of GW2.

I don't see the relevance to my post.
I don't see what "dire consequences" you're talking about here. I also don't see in what way some gemstore, fully optional skins with absolutely no power can be "the most loathsome part" of the game, but to each their own.And finally, I don't see how what you wrote after "let me sum up..." is summing up the first part of your post at all. Pretty sure it doesn't.

Edit:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

^see, this guy gets it.

That is a lengthy response and it's pretty clear that not only do you personally disagree with some points; you also misunderstand and misread some.
  1. There are multiple builds for each profession. It should be assumed that people are going to want to play and save more than a few builds. This obviously becomes an issue with multiple characters and limited space to hold builds.
  2. Trying to justify the accessibility by suggesting a sale that only occurs twice a year is pretty ridiculous. Your argument also perfectly outlines the problem of the gem store and aggressive design of the game equally encouraging you to make a purchase with your wallet.
  3. I didn't say good farms, I said the best. This is of course referring to Fractal dailies.
  4. See previous comment to other participant in conversation.
  5. The price point of legendary armour and the functionality is jarring. It's generally intended as a top-tier cosmetic skin. Point being, different variants of legendary armours are not being created; and most certainly not to the degree of the flashy gemstore skins. See point 4.
  6. For all your comments after, see point 4...

Yup, that was a longer response than I was planning to go for, but it's simply because I've wanted to accurately answer to what you wrote, with examples if possible. Of course it's based on personal experience, why would I (or you) discredit it? (yes, this is a real question -if you wouldn't, then I don't understand what's wrong about that approach and why is this worth pointing out in the first place)

1.
Yes there are. Yes, I'm using multiple builds per class on multiple classes. No, I still didn't get additional build templates, because it's not needed, I know my traits and builds and if somehow I hadn't, I'd re-read the traits (which at that point I'd need to do anyways to use the build effectively). I don't see the issue. It IS a QoL purchase, but it is NOT needed. Not sure there's anything you can say to convince me otherwise seeing as I'm literally speaking from my own experience.
2.
Why is it ridiculous? I did it this way, why would anyone else not be able to do the same?(without a sale it's 130 gold > 400 gems, still attainable through regular ingame farming, but if we know these "items" go on sale then why not just wait for them?)It only "encourages you to make a purchase with your wallet" if you're not interested in getting it through gameplay and represent the "I NEED EVERYTHING
RIGHT NOW
" attitude. That's a "you" problem in my book, so I definitely disagree and you didn't really say anything to challenge what I've said about these items being attainable through ingame currency.
3.
Cool. What's the difference between "good" and "best"? Which are which? Why are you only able to use "best" but not just "good" (even if only after the timegated ones)? How does it change what I said at all?Fractal dailies are easy gold source, but that's not a "gold farming" content (as in you finish that rather fast, nothing about that is even close to regular mmo grinding/farming). And what are you complaining about here? That you get too much gold daily so you either need to farm something less optimal OR wait 3 days to buy what you want? How is this a valid complaint again?
4.
What? Maybe just answer to what I said instead, because I don't know what you're referring to.
5.
"It's generally intended as a top-tier cosmetic skin" -No, it's not, it has its own utility and as I said above I have a pretty solid proof for that in form of... myself.As for the other complaint: remind yourself how much legendary armor set costs. Then take that gold, convert to gems and buy any outfit you want. What was the argument here again?
6.
What? Maybe just answer to what I said instead, because I don't know what you're referring to.

You are clearly missing the point to a degree that it seems you are just arguing for the sake of it, with no attempt of analysing what I'm proposing (or to you as you seem to misunderstand,
may
be proposing). But I will continue as if it is intended in good faith.
  1. Congratulations on knowing your traits for all builds; you're likely a minority in that regard. Keep that in mind as to the viability of the game to the general public.
  2. "I did it, why can't others". I'm not going to give this more of a response as it is pretty obvious that it relates directly to accessibility/playing periodically.
  3. Because analysing the viability of farming for an item over time is generally done first and foremost from the best sources, (ie, real life money vs time spent in game farming). Diminishing returns is acceptable, stylised design to inherently encourage micro-transactions for the majority of farmed-for prestigious items is not.

Let me just stop my comment right here and reiterate that Guild Wars 2 has a horizontal progression system, focused on grinding for cosmetic items.Let us suppose for a second we are in a game with a 'power creep', 'vertical' progression system, would you find it acceptable to be able to pay for microtransactions to progress this? I understand power and cosmetics are not exactly the same thing, but the principle is there loud and clear.

Case study: Runescape 3. Check out what people think of microtransactions in relation to this principle. Do you really think this system of cosmetics simply validates this?

Yes I do.

How about Casino gambling and loot boxes?

Sorry - but anyone saying they are happy for their game to be played for them if they just pay a little more money in real-life, is raising serious ethical red flags to me.

I fail to see how this post got anything to do with the post were cosmetics are fine being sold in the gemstore.I dont need any of those cosmetics to play the game and if I would need it I could use some of my 7k gold earned in game to get them.

The horizontal gear progression grind, for cosmetics; can be practically and perennially bypassed by microtransactions.

Buys game
.
Tries game
. "Ooh, that looks cool." .. "Oh no... that's way too much time"... "Ooo I can purchase it with money"...
A wild grin appears on Arenanet's accountant's face
.

What does that have to do with the game being expensive? Nothing ... especially considering players can grin back by exchanging gold for gems and not give Anet a dime. I really don't see the problem here. You think it's unreasonable that Anet gives players options for obtaining GS items? Is that it? It's not at all clear what your complaint is an how it's related to the OP. I mean, in the end, how is this any different than buy a good or service from anywhere else? I walk into a store, I see something I want, I make a decision to buy it or not, depending on 'things'. Somehow, this process is egregious to you when its a GS in GW2? I don't think you are looking at this with the objective sight you need to be.

It has everything to do with the game being expensive if you would actually think about the point for more than 2 seconds.

No, it doesn't ... there is NO correlation between how expensive the game is for someone and if optional items not needed to play it are available to purchase in its store. No amount of twisted thinking will make that connection.

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Animism.7530

Animism.7530

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@robertthebard.8150 said:

Let’s start with a dev quote...

“We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment.”

...

Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So I want you to explain to the community exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”?

A good quote to see - though it doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake, which I think they have somewhere down the line.

First of all; there is little use asking me for statistical data, a player, writing constructive criticism to a large, wealthy company who manage the game.Second I'm not sure what you are referring to with "cash only". Please see one of my previous comments breaking down your question in more detail. Suffice to say, the requirement over items is not what we're discussing here.

I think you would have to read the discussion thread further to find that answer; as I can only reiterate the basis of it so many times.

I did not ask you for “statistical data“. Surely you can answer those simplified questions.

@Swagger.1459"Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then
I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals
... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So
I want you to explain to the community
exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”? "

Those 3 questions do not ask for “statistical data”. 2 of them ask what items are cash only purchases in the gemstore that allow you to “win” over other players in the various game modes? What items can I only buy with cash that lets me beat everyone in wvw and spvp who didn’t buy those gemstore items? What cash only items allow me to beat raid and fractal bosses faster than players who didn’t buy those cash only gemstore items? Hmmm?

You accuse Anet of being “predatory”, yet you can’t answer those simple questions to the community who reads this?

The level of data and inferences you are asking for are best served and detected by Arenanet. We do not have access to their metrics. It's mostly only appropriate to comment on the reality of the situation (the end product), rather than the theory utilised which is largely an unknown factor.

You are also confusing the points being made and the initial vertical progression system in the game, and I don't want to keep reiterating it.

So you are admitting you don’t know what “pay to win” is?

These questions are simple and do not require “statistical data” or “metrics”. You are clearly avoiding the questions because you cannot back up your claims. You can’t even answer a simple question calling out your “predatory” comments against a game that doesn’t charge players a monthly sub and that allows players to acquire any item off the gem store for FREE by exchanging gold to gems.

You are clearly confused with the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Fine.. I'll respond to you even though your questions are answered through multiple of my previous comments and I made a point of that.

I didn't say that cosmetics are required; I said that they end up being the sole purpose of the game, inherently through the horizontal progression system after the initial brief vertical progression. I even gave an analogy contrasting it directly to a vertical system and how microtransactions are generally received throughout different games.

The remarks of Arenanet's tactics by me, and I'm quite sure the OP and others; relates to the design of the game inherently favouring people who are willing to pay for every item in their game through the purchasing of gems; and it equally undermines the value of those items. Hence; it can be called a wallet game.If you find something you fancy in this horizontal progression game (cosmetics.. after point 1...), the most viable way to get them (also factoring that the items that people tend to want to obtain tend to be in these later days of GW2 designed for the gem store) are designed by Arenanet to be through the gem store, for real-world money purchases.

You did not answer those specific questions. You are deflecting because the answers do not fit your accusations, or you are confused on the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Ok. I'll leave this again to the scrutiny of the reader as it is perfectly clear...

And most readers will see that you are either deflecting by not answering or confused with certain terms.

No... You are asking questions that do not even relate to the point; questions that were already answered previously and not being appropriate to what was being proposed.

I say I'll leave it to the scrutiny of the reader, because I am confident that what I have said makes enough sense and that someone with equal analysis of the points in mind and language used, will come to a similar conclusion.

Yeah? How is my prettier mount skin giving me a power advantage over another player in wvw and spvp?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items can I buy that let's me beat player who didn't buy that item?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items let me beat raid bosses faster than a player who didn't buy them?

Yeah.. Anet is so "predatory" and walking a moral line by NOT charging a subscription fee and allowing all players to buy anything off the gem store by exchanging gold to gems... Riiiiiight....

Why are you asking those questions regarding pay to win for a vertical progression system, for a game that I've mentioned multiple times is a horizontal system?

Putting things in caps lock won't make your questions any more relevant.

Because P2W isn't an abstract, but has an actual meaning. None of the stuff I buy adversely affects any other player in the game, unless they're mad at how much bank space I have? Maybe they're mad because I have a flying carpet glider skin, or can equip an outfit until I get to my final armor, or even after, if I don't like that skin, instead of using up my alteration charges?

To keep this closer to the topic, so I don't have to hear from a moderator again:

How does how many character slots I have affect your gameplay? How does what skins I'm using on my mounts affect your game play? I don't even have all of the mounts. So you see, the "On Topic" response to "but this is predatory, and P2W" is "No, it's not. It's the least predatory system out there". My Skimmer isn't shooting lasers out of it's eyes, does it even have eyes, because I got a different skin, if I got a different skin. My Springer can't suddenly trump a griffon or sky scale because it has a different skin. My Raptor didn't suddenly make every other mount in the game irrelevant because of a new skin. Having 14 character slots didn't suddenly make me able to beat everyone in PvP, or to be able to solo T4 Fractals. So what am I "winning" for it to be P2W?

The nature of competitiveness through horizontal progression is undermined by the gem store. I wouldn't have phrased it as adversely affecting other players; but to be honest on reflection, it does. Does a new player see the gem store and think they would rather spend all their time farming in game, or do more people tend to purchase gems in order to get the items they want?

I think we both know the answer to that question and all of these responses trying to deflate the argument with this in mind misses the point so much that I'll simply stop responding to questions that have been asked a million times.

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robertthebard.8150

robertthebard.8150

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@Animism.7530 said:

Let’s start with a dev quote...

“We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment.”

...

Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So I want you to explain to the community exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”?

A good quote to see - though it doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake, which I think they have somewhere down the line.

First of all; there is little use asking me for statistical data, a player, writing constructive criticism to a large, wealthy company who manage the game.Second I'm not sure what you are referring to with "cash only". Please see one of my previous comments breaking down your question in more detail. Suffice to say, the requirement over items is not what we're discussing here.

I think you would have to read the discussion thread further to find that answer; as I can only reiterate the basis of it so many times.

I did not ask you for “statistical data“. Surely you can answer those simplified questions.

@Swagger.1459"Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then
I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals
... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So
I want you to explain to the community
exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”? "

Those 3 questions do not ask for “statistical data”. 2 of them ask what items are cash only purchases in the gemstore that allow you to “win” over other players in the various game modes? What items can I only buy with cash that lets me beat everyone in wvw and spvp who didn’t buy those gemstore items? What cash only items allow me to beat raid and fractal bosses faster than players who didn’t buy those cash only gemstore items? Hmmm?

You accuse Anet of being “predatory”, yet you can’t answer those simple questions to the community who reads this?

The level of data and inferences you are asking for are best served and detected by Arenanet. We do not have access to their metrics. It's mostly only appropriate to comment on the reality of the situation (the end product), rather than the theory utilised which is largely an unknown factor.

You are also confusing the points being made and the initial vertical progression system in the game, and I don't want to keep reiterating it.

So you are admitting you don’t know what “pay to win” is?

These questions are simple and do not require “statistical data” or “metrics”. You are clearly avoiding the questions because you cannot back up your claims. You can’t even answer a simple question calling out your “predatory” comments against a game that doesn’t charge players a monthly sub and that allows players to acquire any item off the gem store for FREE by exchanging gold to gems.

You are clearly confused with the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Fine.. I'll respond to you even though your questions are answered through multiple of my previous comments and I made a point of that.

I didn't say that cosmetics are required; I said that they end up being the sole purpose of the game, inherently through the horizontal progression system after the initial brief vertical progression. I even gave an analogy contrasting it directly to a vertical system and how microtransactions are generally received throughout different games.

The remarks of Arenanet's tactics by me, and I'm quite sure the OP and others; relates to the design of the game inherently favouring people who are willing to pay for every item in their game through the purchasing of gems; and it equally undermines the value of those items. Hence; it can be called a wallet game.If you find something you fancy in this horizontal progression game (cosmetics.. after point 1...), the most viable way to get them (also factoring that the items that people tend to want to obtain tend to be in these later days of GW2 designed for the gem store) are designed by Arenanet to be through the gem store, for real-world money purchases.

You did not answer those specific questions. You are deflecting because the answers do not fit your accusations, or you are confused on the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Ok. I'll leave this again to the scrutiny of the reader as it is perfectly clear...

And most readers will see that you are either deflecting by not answering or confused with certain terms.

No... You are asking questions that do not even relate to the point; questions that were already answered previously and not being appropriate to what was being proposed.

I say I'll leave it to the scrutiny of the reader, because I am confident that what I have said makes enough sense and that someone with equal analysis of the points in mind and language used, will come to a similar conclusion.

Yeah? How is my prettier mount skin giving me a power advantage over another player in wvw and spvp?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items can I buy that let's me beat player who didn't buy that item?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items let me beat raid bosses faster than a player who didn't buy them?

Yeah.. Anet is so "predatory" and walking a moral line by NOT charging a subscription fee and allowing all players to buy anything off the gem store by exchanging gold to gems... Riiiiiight....

Why are you asking those questions regarding pay to win for a vertical progression system, for a game that I've mentioned multiple times is a horizontal system?

Putting things in caps lock won't make your questions any more relevant.

Because P2W isn't an abstract, but has an actual meaning. None of the stuff I buy adversely affects any other player in the game, unless they're mad at how much bank space I have? Maybe they're mad because I have a flying carpet glider skin, or can equip an outfit until I get to my final armor, or even after, if I don't like that skin, instead of using up my alteration charges?

To keep this closer to the topic, so I don't have to hear from a moderator again:

How does how many character slots I have affect your gameplay? How does what skins I'm using on my mounts affect your game play? I don't even have all of the mounts. So you see, the "On Topic" response to "but this is predatory, and P2W" is "No, it's not. It's the least predatory system out there". My Skimmer isn't shooting lasers out of it's eyes, does it even have eyes, because I got a different skin, if I got a different skin. My Springer can't suddenly trump a griffon or sky scale because it has a different skin. My Raptor didn't suddenly make every other mount in the game irrelevant because of a new skin. Having 14 character slots didn't suddenly make me able to beat everyone in PvP, or to be able to solo T4 Fractals. So what am I "winning" for it to be P2W?

The nature of competitiveness through horizontal progression is undermined by the gem store. I wouldn't have phrased it as adversely affecting other players; but to be honest on reflection, it does. Does a new player see the gem store and think they would rather spend all their time farming in game, or do more people tend to purchase gems in order to get the items they want?

I think we both know the answer to that question and all of these responses trying to deflate the argument with this in mind misses the point so much that I'll simply stop responding to questions that have been asked a million times.

If it's not adversely affecting other players, then it's a non-issue. I'm glad we've cleared that up. You see, it doesn't matter how many character slots you do, or don't have, to me. It's irrelevant, because you can only play one at a time, if they're all on one account. The same is true for how you got them, or didn't get them. I don't care if you just got your wallet out to buy some bank space, or character slots, or outfits. In fact, I'd thank you for that, because it puts money in the coffers for work on the game. None of that, however, changes the nature of the items in question, and that none of them are required to play. This is the "On Topic" issue the OP raises, that these items are needed, and that it's predatory to charge for them. They are not needed, and it's not predatory.

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Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

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@"Fuchslein.8639" said:I wonder how anet makes money. According to this thread, nobody buys skins(And if then only for gold) or anything else because everything is "unnecessary".Best fun-thread ever xD.

There's a difference between saying "That's unnecessary and if you can't afford it then you should not buy it because you don't need it" and saying "I do not ever buy that".

I buy unnecessary things sometimes, including skins in GW2. I'm fortunately in a situation where I can afford to buy non-essential things sometimes. But when I can't afford them I don't complain that I can't play the game without them because I know that's not true. At one point I went for just over a year without spending any real money on GW2 at all, because at the time I couldn't afford it. I was still able to play all the new content when it came out and even able to get things from the gem store occasionally by converting gold into gems. I missed out on a lot of gem store cosmetics and convenience items, many of which I still don't have, but it didn't affect my ability to play the game at all.

If someone can afford to buy things they don't need then there's no reason they shouldn't spend that money on whatever it is they want, even if it's virtual items in a game. But if someone says they cannot afford it but feels pressured to buy those things because they think they need it then it might be helpful for them to reassess their priorities and realise that's not the case.

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Animism.7530

Animism.7530

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@robertthebard.8150 said:

Let’s start with a dev quote...

“We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment.”

...

Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So I want you to explain to the community exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”?

A good quote to see - though it doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake, which I think they have somewhere down the line.

First of all; there is little use asking me for statistical data, a player, writing constructive criticism to a large, wealthy company who manage the game.Second I'm not sure what you are referring to with "cash only". Please see one of my previous comments breaking down your question in more detail. Suffice to say, the requirement over items is not what we're discussing here.

I think you would have to read the discussion thread further to find that answer; as I can only reiterate the basis of it so many times.

I did not ask you for “statistical data“. Surely you can answer those simplified questions.

@Swagger.1459"Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then
I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals
... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So
I want you to explain to the community
exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”? "

Those 3 questions do not ask for “statistical data”. 2 of them ask what items are cash only purchases in the gemstore that allow you to “win” over other players in the various game modes? What items can I only buy with cash that lets me beat everyone in wvw and spvp who didn’t buy those gemstore items? What cash only items allow me to beat raid and fractal bosses faster than players who didn’t buy those cash only gemstore items? Hmmm?

You accuse Anet of being “predatory”, yet you can’t answer those simple questions to the community who reads this?

The level of data and inferences you are asking for are best served and detected by Arenanet. We do not have access to their metrics. It's mostly only appropriate to comment on the reality of the situation (the end product), rather than the theory utilised which is largely an unknown factor.

You are also confusing the points being made and the initial vertical progression system in the game, and I don't want to keep reiterating it.

So you are admitting you don’t know what “pay to win” is?

These questions are simple and do not require “statistical data” or “metrics”. You are clearly avoiding the questions because you cannot back up your claims. You can’t even answer a simple question calling out your “predatory” comments against a game that doesn’t charge players a monthly sub and that allows players to acquire any item off the gem store for FREE by exchanging gold to gems.

You are clearly confused with the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Fine.. I'll respond to you even though your questions are answered through multiple of my previous comments and I made a point of that.

I didn't say that cosmetics are required; I said that they end up being the sole purpose of the game, inherently through the horizontal progression system after the initial brief vertical progression. I even gave an analogy contrasting it directly to a vertical system and how microtransactions are generally received throughout different games.

The remarks of Arenanet's tactics by me, and I'm quite sure the OP and others; relates to the design of the game inherently favouring people who are willing to pay for every item in their game through the purchasing of gems; and it equally undermines the value of those items. Hence; it can be called a wallet game.If you find something you fancy in this horizontal progression game (cosmetics.. after point 1...), the most viable way to get them (also factoring that the items that people tend to want to obtain tend to be in these later days of GW2 designed for the gem store) are designed by Arenanet to be through the gem store, for real-world money purchases.

You did not answer those specific questions. You are deflecting because the answers do not fit your accusations, or you are confused on the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Ok. I'll leave this again to the scrutiny of the reader as it is perfectly clear...

And most readers will see that you are either deflecting by not answering or confused with certain terms.

No... You are asking questions that do not even relate to the point; questions that were already answered previously and not being appropriate to what was being proposed.

I say I'll leave it to the scrutiny of the reader, because I am confident that what I have said makes enough sense and that someone with equal analysis of the points in mind and language used, will come to a similar conclusion.

Yeah? How is my prettier mount skin giving me a power advantage over another player in wvw and spvp?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items can I buy that let's me beat player who didn't buy that item?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items let me beat raid bosses faster than a player who didn't buy them?

Yeah.. Anet is so "predatory" and walking a moral line by NOT charging a subscription fee and allowing all players to buy anything off the gem store by exchanging gold to gems... Riiiiiight....

Why are you asking those questions regarding pay to win for a vertical progression system, for a game that I've mentioned multiple times is a horizontal system?

Putting things in caps lock won't make your questions any more relevant.

Because P2W isn't an abstract, but has an actual meaning. None of the stuff I buy adversely affects any other player in the game, unless they're mad at how much bank space I have? Maybe they're mad because I have a flying carpet glider skin, or can equip an outfit until I get to my final armor, or even after, if I don't like that skin, instead of using up my alteration charges?

To keep this closer to the topic, so I don't have to hear from a moderator again:

How does how many character slots I have affect your gameplay? How does what skins I'm using on my mounts affect your game play? I don't even have all of the mounts. So you see, the "On Topic" response to "but this is predatory, and P2W" is "No, it's not. It's the least predatory system out there". My Skimmer isn't shooting lasers out of it's eyes, does it even have eyes, because I got a different skin, if I got a different skin. My Springer can't suddenly trump a griffon or sky scale because it has a different skin. My Raptor didn't suddenly make every other mount in the game irrelevant because of a new skin. Having 14 character slots didn't suddenly make me able to beat everyone in PvP, or to be able to solo T4 Fractals. So what am I "winning" for it to be P2W?

The nature of competitiveness through horizontal progression is undermined by the gem store. I wouldn't have phrased it as adversely affecting other players; but to be honest on reflection, it does. Does a new player see the gem store and think they would rather spend all their time farming in game, or do more people tend to purchase gems in order to get the items they want?

I think we both know the answer to that question and all of these responses trying to deflate the argument with this in mind misses the point so much that I'll simply stop responding to questions that have been asked a million times.

If it's not adversely affecting other players, then it's a non-issue. I'm glad we've cleared that up. You see, it doesn't matter how many character slots you do, or don't have, to me. It's irrelevant, because you can only play one at a time, if they're all on one account. The same is true for how you got them, or didn't get them. I don't care if you just got your wallet out to buy some bank space, or character slots, or outfits. In fact, I'd thank you for that, because it puts money in the coffers for work on the game. None of that, however, changes the nature of the items in question, and that none of them are required to play. This is the "On Topic" issue the OP raises, that these items are needed, and that it's predatory to charge for them. They are not needed, and it's not predatory.

... It is adversely affecting other players.

Yes, gem store sales of certain items and designs obviously influences the progression and future design work within the gem store.

I shouldn't have to point this out.

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Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

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@Animism.7530 said:

Let’s start with a dev quote...

“We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment.”

...

Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So I want you to explain to the community exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”?

A good quote to see - though it doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake, which I think they have somewhere down the line.

First of all; there is little use asking me for statistical data, a player, writing constructive criticism to a large, wealthy company who manage the game.Second I'm not sure what you are referring to with "cash only". Please see one of my previous comments breaking down your question in more detail. Suffice to say, the requirement over items is not what we're discussing here.

I think you would have to read the discussion thread further to find that answer; as I can only reiterate the basis of it so many times.

I did not ask you for “statistical data“. Surely you can answer those simplified questions.

@Swagger.1459"Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then
I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals
... that are only available to folks that fork over real money?

You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So
I want you to explain to the community
exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”? "

Those 3 questions do not ask for “statistical data”. 2 of them ask what items are cash only purchases in the gemstore that allow you to “win” over other players in the various game modes? What items can I only buy with cash that lets me beat everyone in wvw and spvp who didn’t buy those gemstore items? What cash only items allow me to beat raid and fractal bosses faster than players who didn’t buy those cash only gemstore items? Hmmm?

You accuse Anet of being “predatory”, yet you can’t answer those simple questions to the community who reads this?

The level of data and inferences you are asking for are best served and detected by Arenanet. We do not have access to their metrics. It's mostly only appropriate to comment on the reality of the situation (the end product), rather than the theory utilised which is largely an unknown factor.

You are also confusing the points being made and the initial vertical progression system in the game, and I don't want to keep reiterating it.

So you are admitting you don’t know what “pay to win” is?

These questions are simple and do not require “statistical data” or “metrics”. You are clearly avoiding the questions because you cannot back up your claims. You can’t even answer a simple question calling out your “predatory” comments against a game that doesn’t charge players a monthly sub and that allows players to acquire any item off the gem store for FREE by exchanging gold to gems.

You are clearly confused with the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Fine.. I'll respond to you even though your questions are answered through multiple of my previous comments and I made a point of that.

I didn't say that cosmetics are required; I said that they end up being the sole purpose of the game, inherently through the horizontal progression system after the initial brief vertical progression. I even gave an analogy contrasting it directly to a vertical system and how microtransactions are generally received throughout different games.

The remarks of Arenanet's tactics by me, and I'm quite sure the OP and others; relates to the design of the game inherently favouring people who are willing to pay for every item in their game through the purchasing of gems; and it equally undermines the value of those items. Hence; it can be called a wallet game.If you find something you fancy in this horizontal progression game (cosmetics.. after point 1...), the most viable way to get them (also factoring that the items that people tend to want to obtain tend to be in these later days of GW2 designed for the gem store) are designed by Arenanet to be through the gem store, for real-world money purchases.

You did not answer those specific questions. You are deflecting because the answers do not fit your accusations, or you are confused on the terms “pay to win” and “predatory”.

Ok. I'll leave this again to the scrutiny of the reader as it is perfectly clear...

And most readers will see that you are either deflecting by not answering or confused with certain terms.

No... You are asking questions that do not even relate to the point; questions that were already answered previously and not being appropriate to what was being proposed.

I say I'll leave it to the scrutiny of the reader, because I am confident that what I have said makes enough sense and that someone with equal analysis of the points in mind and language used, will come to a similar conclusion.

Yeah? How is my prettier mount skin giving me a power advantage over another player in wvw and spvp?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items can I buy that let's me beat player who didn't buy that item?

What CASH ONLY power enhancement items let me beat raid bosses faster than a player who didn't buy them?

Yeah.. Anet is so "predatory" and walking a moral line by NOT charging a subscription fee and allowing all players to buy anything off the gem store by exchanging gold to gems... Riiiiiight....

Why are you asking those questions regarding pay to win for a vertical progression system, for a game that I've mentioned multiple times is a horizontal system?

Putting things in caps lock won't make your questions any more relevant.

Because P2W isn't an abstract, but has an actual meaning. None of the stuff I buy adversely affects any other player in the game, unless they're mad at how much bank space I have? Maybe they're mad because I have a flying carpet glider skin, or can equip an outfit until I get to my final armor, or even after, if I don't like that skin, instead of using up my alteration charges?

To keep this closer to the topic, so I don't have to hear from a moderator again:

How does how many character slots I have affect your gameplay? How does what skins I'm using on my mounts affect your game play? I don't even have all of the mounts. So you see, the "On Topic" response to "but this is predatory, and P2W" is "No, it's not. It's the least predatory system out there". My Skimmer isn't shooting lasers out of it's eyes, does it even have eyes, because I got a different skin, if I got a different skin. My Springer can't suddenly trump a griffon or sky scale because it has a different skin. My Raptor didn't suddenly make every other mount in the game irrelevant because of a new skin. Having 14 character slots didn't suddenly make me able to beat everyone in PvP, or to be able to solo T4 Fractals. So what am I "winning" for it to be P2W?

The nature of competitiveness through horizontal progression is undermined by the gem store. I wouldn't have phrased it as adversely affecting other players; but to be honest on reflection, it does. Does a new player see the gem store and think they would rather spend all their time farming in game, or do more people tend to purchase gems in order to get the items they want?

I think we both know the answer to that question and all of these responses trying to deflate the argument with this in mind misses the point so much that I'll simply stop responding to questions that have been asked a million times.

"The nature of competitiveness through horizontal progression is undermined by the gem store."...

Yeah, no. Sorry. That's not how cosmetics and convenience items work. You are clearly confusing cosmetics and convenience with power enhancement and stat advantages... And "horizontal progression" has nothing to do with what skins and convenience items a player has for their account...

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Fuchslein.8639

Fuchslein.8639

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@Danikat.8537 said:

@"Fuchslein.8639" said:I wonder how anet makes money. According to this thread, nobody buys skins(And if then only for gold) or anything else because everything is "unnecessary".Best fun-thread ever xD.

There's a difference between saying "That's unnecessary and if you can't afford it then you should not buy it because you don't need it" and saying "I do not ever buy that".

I buy unnecessary things sometimes, including skins in GW2. I'm fortunately in a situation where I can afford to buy non-essential things sometimes. But when I can't afford them I don't complain that I can't play the game without them because I know that's not true. At one point I went for just over a year without spending any real money on GW2 at all, because at the time I couldn't afford it. I was still able to play all the new content when it came out and even able to get things from the gem store occasionally by converting gold into gems. I missed out on a lot of gem store cosmetics and convenience items, many of which I still don't have, but it didn't affect my ability to play the game at all.

If someone can afford to buy things they don't need then there's no reason they shouldn't spend that money on whatever it is they want, even if it's virtual items in a game. But if someone says they cannot afford it but feels pressured to buy those things because they think they need it then it might be helpful for them to reassess their priorities and realise that's not the case.

I wonder how many pages can be filled with stuff that probably even the TE knows just to fill empty pages :)puts popcorn down for others while on vacation <3

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kharmin.7683

kharmin.7683

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@"Animism.7530" said:

Yes, gem store sales of certain items and designs obviously influences the progression and future design work within the gem store.This is probably the most ignorant (meaning "uneducated") statement you have made thus far. If gem store items "obviously" influenced progression, then no one would be arguing that point. But gem store items do not influence progression or future design work. It's almost like you're saying that any mount skins that are released with the next expansion would be required to play the content.

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Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

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@Animism.7530 said:Tell this to those addictive personalities you hear in the news being allowed to spend ludicrous sums on these platforms.To quote... you just said there isn't anything immoral about it. I strongly disagree.

It's completely absurd to label a company immoral that makes goods or services available to purchase because a few people can't control their spending on things they don't need. That still has nothing to do with how expensive things are for someone. Do you need a bigger shovel to dig that hole you are in? Are you trying to say that the game is too expensive because people are irresponsible with their finances now? Nope ... still not going to work.

I mean, you just literally condemned most companies (many I'm sure you patronize as well) for being immoral simply because they sell things to financially irresponsible people. I'm going to let that tea steep for a bit until it permeates your mind.

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Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

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@Fuchslein.8639 said:

@Fuchslein.8639 said:I wonder how anet makes money. According to this thread, nobody buys skins(And if then only for gold) or anything else because everything is "unnecessary".Best fun-thread ever xD.

There's a difference between saying "That's unnecessary and if you can't afford it then you should not buy it because you don't need it" and saying "I do not ever buy that".

I buy unnecessary things sometimes, including skins in GW2. I'm fortunately in a situation where I can afford to buy non-essential things sometimes. But when I can't afford them I don't complain that I can't play the game without them because I know that's not true. At one point I went for just over a year without spending any real money on GW2 at all, because at the time I couldn't afford it. I was still able to play all the new content when it came out and even able to get things from the gem store occasionally by converting gold into gems. I missed out on a lot of gem store cosmetics and convenience items, many of which I still don't have, but it didn't affect my ability to play the game at all.

If someone can afford to buy things they don't need then there's no reason they shouldn't spend that money on whatever it is they want, even if it's virtual items in a game. But if someone says they cannot afford it but feels pressured to buy those things because they think they need it then it might be helpful for them to reassess their priorities and realise that's not the case.

I wonder how many pages can be filled with stuff that probably even the TE knows just to fill empty pages :)
puts popcorn down for others while on vacation <3

I don't understand what you mean. What is a TE? What pages?

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Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

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@Swagger.1459 said:@"Animism.7530"

"It is adversely affecting other players."?

What? How? One player gets something off the gem store with money or for FREE and another player is hurt because they don't have those things?

Actually ... people purchasing things off the GS is a win win for EVERYONE ... so this idea he has about adverse affecting others ... pretty nonsensical.

Anet gets paidPlayers continue to get to play the game

Sounds to me like we have some 1%er anti-capitalist thinking here ... that ironically plays an MMO to support 'the man and his system of control through oppression and addiction'.

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Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:@"Animism.7530"

"It is adversely affecting other players."?

What? How? One player gets something off the gem store with money or for FREE and another player is hurt because they don't have those things?

Actually ... people purchasing things off the GS is a win win for EVERYONE ... so this idea he has about adverse affecting others ... pretty nonsensical.

Exactly.

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Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

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@Animism.7530 said:

Yes, gem store sales of certain items and designs obviously influences the progression and future design work within the gem store.This is probably the most ignorant (meaning "uneducated") statement you have made thus far. If gem store items "obviously" influenced progression, then no one would be arguing that point. But gem store items do not influence progression or future design work. It's almost like you're saying that any mount skins that are released with the next expansion would be required to play the content.

Twisting the point... The progression in this game ends up as grinding for cosmetics. All the best cosmetics are now being sold and designed for the gem store.Honestly. What is so hard to understand.

... Probably the part where you claim these completely optional items has something to do with how expensive the game is for someone.

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Animism.7530

Animism.7530

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:@"Animism.7530"

"It is adversely affecting other players."?

What? How? One player gets something off the gem store with money or for FREE and another player is hurt because they don't have those things?

Actually ... people purchasing things off the GS is a win win for EVERYONE ... so this idea he has about adverse affecting others ... pretty nonsensical.

Anet gets paidPlayers continue to get to play the game

Sounds to me like we have some 1%er anti-capitalist thinking here ... that ironically plays an MMO to support 'the man and his system of control through oppression and addiction'.

There are very clear issues with the gem store and microtransactions in general within the gaming industry; to a point that it would be nonsensical for me to elaborate further and explain to you what you can find readily available on google.

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Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Posted
Posted

@Animism.7530 said:

"It is adversely affecting other players."?

What? How? One player gets something off the gem store with money or for FREE and another player is hurt because they don't have those things?

Actually ... people purchasing things off the GS is a win win for EVERYONE ... so this idea he has about adverse affecting others ... pretty nonsensical.

Anet gets paidPlayers continue to get to play the game

Sounds to me like we have some 1%er anti-capitalist thinking here ... that ironically plays an MMO to support 'the man and his system of control through oppression and addiction'.

There are very clear issues with the gem store and microtransactions in general within the gaming industry; to a point that it would be nonsensical for me to elaborate further and explain to you what you can find readily available on google.

maybe, but that doesn't make what Anet is doing immoral, no more so than ANY OTHER company that offers goods and services for purchase online. That's absurd. I mean, we are getting to a point here where you are shoving your morality in people's faces to make an absurd argument about a connection between the expensive of the game for some people and the items available for purchase in the GS ... none of this makes sense.

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Animism.7530

Animism.7530

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Animism.7530 said:Tell this to those addictive personalities you hear in the news being allowed to spend ludicrous sums on these platforms.To quote... you just said there isn't anything immoral about it. I strongly disagree.

It's completely absurd to label a company immoral that makes goods or services available to purchase because a few people can't control their spending on things they don't need. That still has nothing to do with how expensive things are for someone. Do you need a bigger shovel to dig that hole you are in? Are you trying to say that the game is too expensive because people are irresponsible with their finances now? Nope ... still not going to work.

I mean, you just literally condemned most companies (many I'm sure you patronize as well) for being immoral simply because they sell things to financially irresponsible people. I'm going to let that tea steep for a bit until it permeates your mind.

Would I say that the game can be expensive because some people are 'irresponsible' and managing to pay thousands and thousands of real life currencies?Yes.... Yes I would. That is pretty much characteristic of what the game can offer. Ironically, it is before we even mention gambling and loot boxes.

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