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I personally don’t consider rewards items to be content.

Edit:

Made a change as to further iterate the intent of this post as people got so hyper fixated on what is a reward and I really didn’t have any desire to argue over that.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.
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@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

Then legendary armor are not rewards for raids. The legendary accessories are not rewards for completing their respective season collections. The Ad Infinitum back item, and whatever the sPvP one was called, are not a reward for completing their respective collections. Many of the weapons available in HoT were locked behind recipes only available by doing the metas so those must not be rewards then as well.

Whether you directly get them or not doesn’t matter as you cannot get them without doing their respective content.

I also bring up my original point that rewards are not content.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

Then legendary armor are not rewards for raids. The legendary accessories are not rewards for completing their respective season collections. The Ad Infinitum back item, and whatever the sPvP one was called, are not a reward for completing their respective collections. Many of the weapons available in HoT were locked behind recipes only available by doing the metas so those must not be rewards then as well.

Whether you directly get them or not doesn’t matter as you cannot get them without doing their respective content.

I also bring up my original point that rewards are not content.

Right, none of those things are rewards. They're objectives to achieve. Rewards don't come with a price tag. Anything that comes with additional cost is not a reward.

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I like how people have resorted to their own definitions of 'content', 'rewards', etc ... to justify how EVERYONE ELSE should label and regard these weapon collections.

Bottomline: Crafting IS content because it's a game activity. Anyone that argues otherwise has an agenda.

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@sitarskee.5738 said:So it's something you've got to work for but isn't a requirement for anything. Hmmmm, what could be the solution for such problem? If you want to do it, do it, if you don't wanna do it, don't cry about it, forget about it and don't do it.

People already get your point.

No one is crying about anything.

They are simply serving the purpose of a consumer feedback forum for a company, by telling that company how they feel about recent content compared to older content. And in the recent case of these new IBS weapon sets, the company needs all the feedback they can get.

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@"Obtena.7952" said:I like how people have resorted to their own definitions of 'content', 'rewards', etc ... to justify how EVERYONE ELSE should label and regard these weapon collections.

Bottomline: Crafting IS content because it's a game activity. Anyone that argues otherwise has an agenda.

Well the action of going to a crafting station to exchange items for something is really no different than going to a vendor to exchange items for something else. So I guess the only rewards in this game are drops and stuff that you loot? Anything else that uses something as a middleman is just content?

Crafting is just additional "content" to get a reward which wouldn't have been possible to get without doing the content tied to it. Really no different from interacting with an NPC to exchange some currency for another item. Both require another action in order to get the final reward which drives players to do the content they are attached to.

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@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

Then legendary armor are not rewards for raids. The legendary accessories are not rewards for completing their respective season collections. The Ad Infinitum back item, and whatever the sPvP one was called, are not a reward for completing their respective collections. Many of the weapons available in HoT were locked behind recipes only available by doing the metas so those must not be rewards then as well.

Whether you directly get them or not doesn’t matter as you cannot get them without doing their respective content.

I also bring up my original point that rewards are not content.

Right, none of those things are rewards. They're objectives to achieve. Rewards don't come with a price tag. Anything that comes with additional cost is not a reward.

Rewards don’t come with a price tag? Ok. I’ll hold you to that as by your definition, rewards are drops only whether from enemies directly or from loot chests.

The reward for the old Istan farm isn’t the gold you get from materials you get from the crates at the vendor but the volatile magic itself. Got it. How foolish of me to think otherwise.

I'll still reiterate my original statement for the third time so that it doesn't get lost: the weapon sets are not content.

Here another thing I just saw. The keys for the exalted chests have a gold cost (24 copper) from the vendor along with the lump of aurillium. So by your definition, any loot from chests opened with these bought keys, rather than the ones obtained from events, doesn't count as rewards. There was a price tag associated with those purchased keys and by your definition, rewards don't come with a price tag.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

Then legendary armor are not rewards for raids. The legendary accessories are not rewards for completing their respective season collections. The Ad Infinitum back item, and whatever the sPvP one was called, are not a reward for completing their respective collections. Many of the weapons available in HoT were locked behind recipes only available by doing the metas so those must not be rewards then as well.

Whether you directly get them or not doesn’t matter as you cannot get them without doing their respective content.

I also bring up my original point that rewards are not content.

Right, none of those things are rewards. They're objectives to achieve. Rewards don't come with a price tag. Anything that comes with additional cost is not a reward.

Rewards don’t come with a price tag? Ok. I’ll hold you to that as by your definition, rewards are drops only whether from enemies directly or from loot chests.

The reward for the old Istan farm isn’t the gold you get from materials you get from the crates at the vendor but the volatile magic itself. Got it. How foolish of me to think otherwise.Don't twist yourself into nonsensical extremes, it does nothing for your case. Something requiring the expenditure of hundreds if not thousands of gold, either liquid or in resource value, is not a reward. About that Istan farm example, what you eventually do with the rewards you get for participating, are just purchases and perhaps eventually gold earned through sales. If I walk out into Queensdale, kill some low level critters, and use the copper I get to buy a 4 slot leather bag, the copper is the reward, not the bag.
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@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

Then legendary armor are not rewards for raids. The legendary accessories are not rewards for completing their respective season collections. The Ad Infinitum back item, and whatever the sPvP one was called, are not a reward for completing their respective collections. Many of the weapons available in HoT were locked behind recipes only available by doing the metas so those must not be rewards then as well.

Whether you directly get them or not doesn’t matter as you cannot get them without doing their respective content.

I also bring up my original point that rewards are not content.

Right, none of those things are rewards. They're objectives to achieve. Rewards don't come with a price tag. Anything that comes with additional cost is not a reward.

Rewards don’t come with a price tag? Ok. I’ll hold you to that as by your definition, rewards are drops only whether from enemies directly or from loot chests.

The reward for the old Istan farm isn’t the gold you get from materials you get from the crates at the vendor but the volatile magic itself. Got it. How foolish of me to think otherwise.Don't twist yourself into nonsensical extremes, it does nothing for your case. Something requiring the expenditure of hundreds if not thousands of gold, either liquid or in resource value, is not a reward. About that Istan farm example, what you eventually do with the rewards you get for participating, are just purchases and perhaps eventually gold earned through sales. If I walk out into Queensdale, kill some low level critters, and use the copper I get to buy a 4 slot leather bag, the copper is the reward, not the bag.

Many rewards can have costs associated with them with these costs not suddenly excluding them from that because they pass some arbitrary threshold that you're not comfortably spending All of this still doesn't matter as my original point was that those weapons are not content. Whatever you want to personally call them, they're not content.

As far as nonsensical extremes, I wasn't using those. I was taking what you said which was "Rewards don't come with a price tag". Whether it's a small price tag, or a large one, it's still a price tag.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

Then legendary armor are not rewards for raids. The legendary accessories are not rewards for completing their respective season collections. The Ad Infinitum back item, and whatever the sPvP one was called, are not a reward for completing their respective collections. Many of the weapons available in HoT were locked behind recipes only available by doing the metas so those must not be rewards then as well.

Whether you directly get them or not doesn’t matter as you cannot get them without doing their respective content.

I also bring up my original point that rewards are not content.

Right, none of those things are rewards. They're objectives to achieve. Rewards don't come with a price tag. Anything that comes with additional cost is not a reward.

Rewards don’t come with a price tag? Ok. I’ll hold you to that as by your definition, rewards are drops only whether from enemies directly or from loot chests.

The reward for the old Istan farm isn’t the gold you get from materials you get from the crates at the vendor but the volatile magic itself. Got it. How foolish of me to think otherwise.Don't twist yourself into nonsensical extremes, it does nothing for your case. Something requiring the expenditure of hundreds if not thousands of gold, either liquid or in resource value, is not a reward. About that Istan farm example, what you eventually do with the rewards you get for participating, are just purchases and perhaps eventually gold earned through sales. If I walk out into Queensdale, kill some low level critters, and use the copper I get to buy a 4 slot leather bag, the copper is the reward, not the bag.

Many rewards can have costs associated with them with these costs not suddenly excluding them from that because they pass some arbitrary threshold that you're not comfortably spending All of this still doesn't matter as my original point was that those weapons are not content. Whatever you want to personally call them, they're not content.

As far as nonsensical extremes, I wasn't using those. I was taking what you said which was "Rewards don't come with a price tag". Whether it's a small price tag, or a large one, it's still a price tag.

The Istan example is interesting to pick apart. If I understand you correctly, you trade in the volatile magic, with some gold thrown in, for material boxes, and you then sell the materials? The gold you make is what you consider the reward?

I also buy those boxes, but never sell the materials. I use the t5 and the t6 fine materials for legendary crafting. The reward in this process is the same for both of us: the proceeds from the Istan meta. This reward is the means to get something we want. I want materials, you want gold, but neither are a reward. What we do with the proceeds from the meta is exactly the same as what we do when we buy a 4 slot bag with the handful of copper we earned from killing critters in Queensdale, and I certainly wouldn't consider that bag a reward.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I like how people have resorted to their own definitions of 'content', 'rewards', etc ... to justify how EVERYONE ELSE should label and regard these weapon collections.

Bottomline: Crafting IS content because it's a game activity. Anyone that argues otherwise has an agenda.

Well the action of going to a crafting station to exchange items for something is really no different than going to a vendor to exchange items for something else. So I guess the only rewards in this game are drops and stuff that you loot? Anything else that uses something as a middleman is just content?

Crafting is just additional "content" to get a reward which wouldn't have been possible to get without doing the content tied to it. Really no different from interacting with an NPC to exchange some currency for another item. Both require another action in order to get the final reward which drives players to do the content they are attached to.

Again, not arguing the subtle details of what people do and don't consider content. The fact is that someone or many people in this thread want to be outraged by expensive crafting results ... and the cleverest way they could think to do that was to start a 'discussion' about what is and isn't content. Frankly, it's rather absurd considering this isn't some new idea in this game. Anyone ever heard of Legendary weapons?

You don't consider weapon sets content? It doesn't matter what any specific group of people think; the game doesn't cater to them. Some people do. Anet provides content over a WIDE range.

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@Fueki.4753 said:The main problem I have with these collections is that Arenanet locked another mastery point behind these stupidly grindy collections.

That's just another mastery point I will never get.

Been already mentioned several, many times before, ever since Skyscale collection :Anet, people don't enjoy long, grindy achievements.

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@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

Then legendary armor are not rewards for raids. The legendary accessories are not rewards for completing their respective season collections. The Ad Infinitum back item, and whatever the sPvP one was called, are not a reward for completing their respective collections. Many of the weapons available in HoT were locked behind recipes only available by doing the metas so those must not be rewards then as well.

Whether you directly get them or not doesn’t matter as you cannot get them without doing their respective content.

I also bring up my original point that rewards are not content.

Right, none of those things are rewards. They're objectives to achieve. Rewards don't come with a price tag. Anything that comes with additional cost is not a reward.

Rewards don’t come with a price tag? Ok. I’ll hold you to that as by your definition, rewards are drops only whether from enemies directly or from loot chests.

The reward for the old Istan farm isn’t the gold you get from materials you get from the crates at the vendor but the volatile magic itself. Got it. How foolish of me to think otherwise.Don't twist yourself into nonsensical extremes, it does nothing for your case. Something requiring the expenditure of hundreds if not thousands of gold, either liquid or in resource value, is not a reward. About that Istan farm example, what you eventually do with the rewards you get for participating, are just purchases and perhaps eventually gold earned through sales. If I walk out into Queensdale, kill some low level critters, and use the copper I get to buy a 4 slot leather bag, the copper is the reward, not the bag.

Many rewards can have costs associated with them with these costs not suddenly excluding them from that because they pass some arbitrary threshold that you're not comfortably spending All of this still doesn't matter as my original point was that those weapons are not content. Whatever you want to personally call them, they're not content.

As far as nonsensical extremes, I wasn't using those. I was taking what you said which was "Rewards don't come with a price tag". Whether it's a small price tag, or a large one, it's still a price tag.

The Istan example is interesting to pick apart. If I understand you correctly, you trade in the volatile magic, with some gold thrown in, for material boxes, and you then sell the materials? The gold you make is what you consider the reward?

It's something players were able to obtain by doing the meta. It didn't matter that there were some additional, intermediary steps between the meta event itself and the gold. If an item is only acquirable from doing a certain piece of content, wouldn't that item be considered a reward? Yes, there are also rewards which you get directly from the meta itself but I don't see drops as being the only thing considered a reward.

I also buy those boxes, but never sell the materials. I use the t5 and the t6 fine materials for legendary crafting. The reward in this process is the same for both of us: the proceeds from the Istan meta. This reward is the means to get something we want. I want materials, you want gold, but neither are a reward. What we do with the proceeds from the meta is exactly the same as what we do when we buy a 4 slot bag with the handful of copper we earned from killing critters in Queensdale, and I certainly wouldn't consider that bag a reward.

The reward doesn't have to be monetary. Instead of gold, you got fine mats. Those doing both the Champions collections get ascended weapons, new skins, and AP. There's also the off chance that if there's a legendary trinket tied to LS5, it'd require a small number of those weapons unlocked.

The reasoning you just gave for materials and gold not being a reward can easily be applied towards the actual drops which you consider rewards. You dismissed the fine mats as rewards because you used them for legendary crafting. Would you have also dismissed them if they dropped from the meta itself?

It's all about what value you get from doing something. Certainly with these collections, the cost of finally obtaining those weapons is too high to be worth it for some players. That's certainly understandable and definitely a reason that players no longer do some content in the game. That value is going to be different from player to player. I completed those collections simply because I'm a completionist.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I like how people have resorted to their own definitions of 'content', 'rewards', etc ... to justify how EVERYONE ELSE should label and regard these weapon collections.

Bottomline: Crafting IS content because it's a game activity. Anyone that argues otherwise has an agenda.

Well the action of going to a crafting station to exchange items for something is really no different than going to a vendor to exchange items for something else. So I guess the only rewards in this game are drops and stuff that you loot? Anything else that uses something as a middleman is just content?

Crafting is just additional "content" to get a reward which wouldn't have been possible to get without doing the content tied to it. Really no different from interacting with an NPC to exchange some currency for another item. Both require another action in order to get the final reward which drives players to do the content they are attached to.

Again, not arguing the subtle details of what people do and don't consider content. The fact is that someone or many people in this thread want to be outraged by expensive crafting results ... and the cleverest way they could think to do that was to start a 'discussion' about what is and isn't content. Frankly, it's rather absurd considering this isn't some new idea in this game. Anyone ever heard of Legendary weapons?

I don't blame them for being outraged. I, myself, was annoyed when they essentially kept doubling the amount of crystals/ingots needed which prompted me to just buy all of the ingots instead less the amount that I would get from completing the achievements.

You don't consider weapon sets content? It doesn't matter what any specific group of people think; the game doesn't cater to them. Some people do. Anet provides content over a WIDE range.

No, I don't. I see content as more of doing that you *do rather than something that you obtain. If Anet advertised a huge content drop after a drought, and all they did was add a ton of new skins through a vendor, how would players react? Would there be outcries of being misled?

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an further more if it was only ONE weapons set that this expensive I think people would be less up in arms about it.the fact they have dumbed so many weapon set in these few episodes alone in which ONE already requires the entire sage time to actually be completed is down right insane. not to mention they all need the same stupidly low drop rate draconic Lodstone.you can craft them? well only if i get 2 Lodstones through drops first allowing me to craft boreal weapons so i can get the achievement award.Buy them? well then you just agree what people said in critic about the dragon slayer and storm caller weapons.

and thats just the craftable ones. we also have two tengu sets as well. and NON of them are ascendedYES someone pointed this out: the dragons blood weapons are actually a good upgrade, they actually give you a ascended weapon, something you want if you are not going for legendarys yet. any other set in IBS? exotic exotic exotic. you do NOT pay thousands of gold for exotic weapon skins. the only ones are either unique one without a set attached to them OR precursors and even those are not exceeding 500 gold.

its way to many sets for way to low weapon quality for to much gold in one living world season/saga

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@ScyeRynn.4218 said:These weps are ugly af. Why would anyone waste time and money on these when you can have a legendary?

Pretty much this. The moment I checked out the fiery sword I was like what is this garbo, half the size of the shining blade (and yeah i like large 1h swords) and nothing fancy coming along with it. The glow is almost non-existant and the weapons have nothing mindblowing on them which would justify the ridiculous cost.Heck even volcanic stormcallers look MUUUUCH better and cost only a small finger compared to the dragon slayer sets.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:No, I don't. I see content as more of doing that you *do rather than something that you obtain. If Anet advertised a huge content drop after a drought, and all they did was add a ton of new skins through a vendor, how would players react? Would there be outcries of being misled?

Maybe ... but that's not what we got here, so that scenario doesn't apply. I think the important thing here to recognize is that there is stuff in a game we might not like ... but it's not about me, or you. It's about how this game must appeal to a larger population to maintain the business. Some people think crafting is great. Some people like the skins. Not everything put in this game has to appeal to everyone. It can't. The data will tell Anet if it's a bad idea to do things this way. The data tells them what the population likes and doesn't like.

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Cutting the quote tree down a bit.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

The Istan example is interesting to pick apart. If I understand you correctly, you trade in the volatile magic, with some gold thrown in, for material boxes, and you then sell the materials? The gold you make is what you consider the reward?

It's something players were able to obtain by doing the meta. It didn't matter that there were some additional, intermediary steps between the meta event itself and the gold. If an item is only acquirable from doing a certain piece of content, wouldn't that item be considered a reward? Yes, there are also rewards which you get directly from the meta itself but I don't see drops as being the only thing considered a reward.

But how many intermediate steps can we make before we stop considering something a reward for doing a certain thing? Just the 2 you're using? Or can we go further? If I turn volatile magic gained from an event into materials, sell those materials for gold, use that gold to craft a legendary weapon, salvage that weapon for a ball of dark energy, refine that ball into a cube, use that cube to make a gift of the mist, use that gift to create a legendary weapon, is that legendary now a reward I got for doing a meta event? Is every item I can buy or craft that requires a bit of gold along the way now suddenly a reward for doing the Istan meta? The concept of reward has completely lost all meaning.

I also buy those boxes, but never sell the materials. I use the t5 and the t6 fine materials for legendary crafting. The reward in this process is the same for both of us: the proceeds from the Istan meta. This reward is the means to get something we want. I want materials, you want gold, but neither are a reward. What we do with the proceeds from the meta is exactly the same as what we do when we buy a 4 slot bag with the handful of copper we earned from killing critters in Queensdale, and I certainly wouldn't consider that bag a reward.

The reward doesn't have to be monetary. Instead of gold, you got fine mats. Those doing both the Champions collections get ascended weapons, new skins, and AP. There's also the off chance that if there's a legendary trinket tied to LS5, it'd require a small number of those weapons unlocked.

The reasoning you just gave for materials and gold not being a reward can easily be applied towards the actual drops which you consider rewards. You dismissed the fine mats as rewards because you used them for legendary crafting. Would you have also dismissed them if they dropped from the meta itself?

I dismissed the fine materials because they're simply not a reward by any stretch of the imagination. I BUY them. I use the reward from activities that grant volatile magic for that.

It's all about what value you get from doing something. Certainly with these collections, the cost of finally obtaining those weapons is too high to be worth it for some players. That's certainly understandable and definitely a reason that players no longer do some content in the game. That value is going to be different from player to player. I completed those collections simply because I'm a completionist.

It's not about that at all. It's simple semantics. A reward isn't something you have to pay for.

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