Well what were you expecting?

[Rikimaru.7890]

If you build a house on a weak foundation it will fall on your head eventually. Meaning since core Necromancer cannot compete with core Warrior or Elementalist how do you expect it's Elite to compete with their Elite? The foundation is still weak and it makes the Elite weak too.Let's take the CPS Berserker as example, the PS has existed pre-HoT remember? Phalanx Strength is a core Warrior Trait. The Berserker only improved it and with the introduction of Viper gear they turned from PS to CPS, but they were considered top tier from the start.Elemetalists are the same, did the Tempest make such a difference? Is the Warhorn or Shouts a "must have" for them? No they pretty much mostly use same skills as before except the Overloads which give the Elementalist 4 additional skills which are kinda like finishing blows.

So what I'm saying is that to fix all the problems the Necromancer would need a whole rework.For example Necromancers could have a more elaborate use of Life Force. It could be used to boost the power of their skills. Like once they enter Death Shroud the healing/utility/elite skills would gain alternate and/or boosted effects which would instead require some of the Life Force to use.And then it could be made so that different shrouds would give different effects. So Reaper Shroud would give different boosts than Death Shroud.

But here is the real problem, if the developers finally consent and Necromancers do get a rework then others will want the same. Which is probably why it will never happen as no one likes it when 1 person gets special treatment while the rest don't.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Rikimaru.7890 said:If you build a house on a weak foundation it will fall on your head eventually. Meaning since core Necromancer cannot compete with core Warrior or Elementalist how do you expect it's Elite to compete with their Elite? The foundation is still weak and it makes the Elite weak too.Let's take the CPS Berserker as example, the PS has existed pre-HoT remember? Phalanx Strength is a core Warrior Trait. The Berserker only improved it and with the introduction of Viper gear they turned from PS to CPS, but they were considered top tier from the start.Elemetalists are the same, did the Tempest make such a difference? Is the Warhorn or Shouts a "must have" for them? No they pretty much mostly use same skills as before except the Overloads which give the Elementalist 4 additional skills which are kinda like finishing blows.

So what I'm saying is that to fix all the problems the Necromancer would need a whole rework.For example Necromancers could have a more elaborate use of Life Force. It could be used to boost the power of their skills. Like once they enter Death Shroud the healing/utility/elite skills would gain alternate and/or boosted effects which would instead require some of the Life Force to use.And then it could be made so that different shrouds would give different effects. So Reaper Shroud would give different boosts than Death Shroud.

But here is the real problem, if the developers finally consent and Necromancers do get a rework then others will want the same. Which is probably why it will never happen as no one likes it when 1 person gets special treatment while the rest don't.

All of what you say is for the most part pretty true however the issue i have with your post is the last thing you say.

• But here is the real problem, if the developers finally consent and Necromancers do get a rework then others will want the same. Which is probably why it will never happen as no one likes it when 1 person gets special treatment while the rest don't.

Usually most mmo games reach a point after a few years where all the classes / professions receive a rework if they really really need it and its during this time that all professions get at least some sort of rework in at least their problem areas. So while professions like thief would not need as much as necromancer it would still get some really nice quality touches / fixes to its problem areas.Guildwars2 has really yet to do this.

[Swagg.9236]

The tempest is actually a massive DPS buff just considering the lightning overload. It's incredibly silly how just that one button generates such insane output.

Necro is actually astounding in how both of its elite specs completely change how it can handle, but ultimately neither of them made a significant impact on the game. It's a huge joke. If you want damage, it's easiest to go after bloat that nobody uses and rework things into potential that can boost necro DPS or give necro a way to boost party DPS sort of like empower allies and PS.

[Isidar.4789]

But here is the real problem, if the developers finally consent and Necromancers do get a rework then others will want the same. Which is probably why it will never happen as no one likes it when 1 person gets special treatment while the rest don't.

Dont forget that guardian was already reworked with his old skills turned into firebrand mechanic

[Zefiris.8297]

But here is the real problem, if the developers finally consent and Necromancers do get a rework then others will want the same. Which is probably why it will never happen as no one likes it when 1 person gets special treatment while the rest don't.

You fix what is broken. This means Necromancer in general, Revenant, Chronomancer, Druid, PS Warrior, Weaver, the list goes on. It is actually normal for such redesigns to happen around expansions - WoW for example did it every expansion, starting with massive overhauls in Burning Crusade.

For a bit of a history lesson:

Classic WoW had similar issues to what we have now. Classes were extremely pigeonholed, multiple classes were far worse than others, and entire parts of their skillsets were simply not useful. Back then, you also had the usual forum trolls (like the 3-4 we have currently in the necro forum, screaming that Necromancer should be the weakest PVE spec) arguing this was fine.

Blizzard, of course, is a company with quite good designers, knew otherwise, and they simply cut the gordian knot of their original design and radically redesigned all classes.

Suddenly, Paladins (who had, until then, be bad DPS, nearly useless tanks, and alright healers) started being accepted in all three roles. SO were shamans. Druids. Buffs were spread around, as was CC, and the game changed from bring the class, not the player, to bring the player, not the class.The big games generally do such shakeups very often, and end up with much better balance for it. They too have their problems, of course - but even those problems pale to the silly situation we have in GW2 right now.

[Muchacho.2390]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Rikimaru.7890 said:If you build a house on a weak foundation it will fall on your head eventually. Meaning since core Necromancer cannot compete with core Warrior or Elementalist how do you expect it's Elite to compete with their Elite? The foundation is still weak and it makes the Elite weak too.Let's take the CPS Berserker as example, the PS has existed pre-HoT remember? Phalanx Strength is a core Warrior Trait. The Berserker only improved it and with the introduction of Viper gear they turned from PS to CPS, but they were considered top tier from the start.Elemetalists are the same, did the Tempest make such a difference? Is the Warhorn or Shouts a "must have" for them? No they pretty much mostly use same skills as before except the Overloads which give the Elementalist 4 additional skills which are kinda like finishing blows.

So what I'm saying is that to fix all the problems the Necromancer would need a whole rework.For example Necromancers could have a more elaborate use of Life Force. It could be used to boost the power of their skills. Like once they enter Death Shroud the healing/utility/elite skills would gain alternate and/or boosted effects which would instead require some of the Life Force to use.And then it could be made so that different shrouds would give different effects. So Reaper Shroud would give different boosts than Death Shroud.

But here is the real problem, if the developers finally consent and Necromancers do get a rework then others will want the same. Which is probably why it will never happen as no one likes it when 1 person gets special treatment while the rest don't.

All of what you say is for the most part pretty true however the issue i have with your post is the last thing you say.

• But here is the real problem, if the developers finally consent and Necromancers do get a rework then others will want the same. Which is probably why it will never happen as no one likes it when 1 person gets special treatment while the rest don't.

Usually most mmo games reach a point after a few years where all the classes / professions receive a rework if they really really need it and its during this time that all professions get at least some sort of rework in at least their problem areas. So while professions like thief would not need as much as necromancer it would still get some really nice quality touches / fixes to its problem areas.Guildwars2 has really yet to do this.

Well they did it in gw1 though. E.G Dervishs got a needed rework.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Rikimaru.7890 said:If you build a house on a weak foundation it will fall on your head eventually. Meaning since core Necromancer cannot compete with core Warrior or Elementalist how do you expect it's Elite to compete with their Elite? The foundation is still weak and it makes the Elite weak too.Let's take the CPS Berserker as example, the PS has existed pre-HoT remember? Phalanx Strength is a core Warrior Trait. The Berserker only improved it and with the introduction of Viper gear they turned from PS to CPS, but they were considered top tier from the start.Elemetalists are the same, did the Tempest make such a difference? Is the Warhorn or Shouts a "must have" for them? No they pretty much mostly use same skills as before except the Overloads which give the Elementalist 4 additional skills which are kinda like finishing blows.

So what I'm saying is that to fix all the problems the Necromancer would need a whole rework.For example Necromancers could have a more elaborate use of Life Force. It could be used to boost the power of their skills. Like once they enter Death Shroud the healing/utility/elite skills would gain alternate and/or boosted effects which would instead require some of the Life Force to use.And then it could be made so that different shrouds would give different effects. So Reaper Shroud would give different boosts than Death Shroud.

But here is the real problem, if the developers finally consent and Necromancers do get a rework then others will want the same. Which is probably why it will never happen as no one likes it when 1 person gets special treatment while the rest don't.

Has it really been that long when they reworked every profession before the release of HoT that made a lot of things worst?

I still remember how they butchered the Thief's Acrobatics line with reasons of "too much evade" only to add Daredevil with "too much evade".

Asking them to do another rework is futile because that would presume they actually know what they're doing.

[Lexan.5930]

You make a good point about the warrior. I've actually just yesterday made my warrior in cps because I want to raid well.

Its insane how much Condi pressure that warrior gets passive in thier skills and trait lines before you even look at berserker. They get really great acess to burn in thier Condi line and increase damage. Then berserker just augments their Condi ability. But it also adds passives that interact well with the active, like beong able to blow up your fire auras for more damage and burn.

Neuro traits are kinda all over the place with Condi in a lot of lines, and I get that we're necro,But moving some traits around or joining others and buffing core necro might help push scourge and reaper up.

Such as parasitic contagion could increase bleeding and poison damage by 20% similar to ranger. Rather than duration, or take fury out of the trait line passive and give us another Condi on crit.

Also reaper, more damage in spite would passively bring up power reapers damage.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Lexan.5930 said:You make a good point about the warrior. I've actually just yesterday made my warrior in cps because I want to raid well.

Its insane how much Condi pressure that warrior gets passive in thier skills and trait lines before you even look at berserker. They get really great acess to burn in thier Condi line and increase damage. Then berserker just augments their Condi ability. But it also adds passives that interact well with the active, like beong able to blow up your fire auras for more damage and burn.

Neuro traits are kinda all over the place with Condi in a lot of lines, and I get that we're necro,But moving some traits around or joining others and buffing core necro might help push scourge and reaper up.

Such as parasitic contagion could increase bleeding and poison damage by 20% similar to ranger. Rather than duration, or take fury out of the trait line passive and give us another Condi on crit.

Also reaper, more damage in spite would passively bring up power reapers damage.

The LAST thing Necro needs be it core, reaper or Scourge is MORE condi damage or condi application. Its already insanely easy to play condi. If anything Condi across ALL classes need to be reduced. The ONLY reason they wont be - they dont affect Warrior who can be immune to condis for insane amounts of time :/

[TheLastNobody.8319]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Asking them to do another rework is futile because that would presume they actually know what they're doing.

I hate agreeing with this but you’re right. Whenever they “rework” core classes to prepare for elite specs, they really just strip out some things from the core and dial it up to 11 in the elite. Daredevil is a perfect example of this.

[Zoltreez.6435]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Lexan.5930 said:You make a good point about the warrior. I've actually just yesterday made my warrior in cps because I want to raid well.

Its insane how much Condi pressure that warrior gets passive in thier skills and trait lines before you even look at berserker. They get really great acess to burn in thier Condi line and increase damage. Then berserker just augments their Condi ability. But it also adds passives that interact well with the active, like beong able to blow up your fire auras for more damage and burn.

Neuro traits are kinda all over the place with Condi in a lot of lines, and I get that we're necro,But moving some traits around or joining others and buffing core necro might help push scourge and reaper up.

Such as parasitic contagion could increase bleeding and poison damage by 20% similar to ranger. Rather than duration, or take fury out of the trait line passive and give us another Condi on crit.

Also reaper, more damage in spite would passively bring up power reapers damage.

The LAST thing Necro needs be it core, reaper or Scourge is MORE condi damage or condi application. Its already insanely easy to play condi. If anything Condi across ALL classes need to be reduced. The ONLY reason they wont be - they dont affect Warrior who can be immune to condis for insane amounts of time :/

the Things Necro needs are Tools and mechanics all the other classes have multiple off in all their builds

immunes,Blocks,competitive Mobility during combat, at least 1 STRONG selfheal that worths something, more type of reliably usable boons

and many many many maaaaaaaaaaaany other stuff necros are missing....