What would you suggest for a better core necro ?

[thanatosryback.5043]

Hello !

For the short presentation, I am a necro main and I'm a noob PvE player that come back to play since the HoT's price reduction and the launch of PoF extension. However I like this profession and feel dedicated to it as I like to read people on this forum to better understand the necromancer mechanics and their problem. For exemple I always felt core necro lack of flavour in term of support and things outside dps and boon corruption (especially in PvE where boons and conditions are lacking for the necromancer to excel at it). So I thought I could have some ideas to share about what could make necromancer interesting and great to play and wanted in group content. As we know, the core necro could have a little boost to be a better fondation for the other specialization as well.

So enough with the prelude and here are the ideas I had :

• Steal boon mechanics and share management : The necromancer always been said to be an egoist profession. But I think his selfishness could become an interesting thing : accumulate then finally share. It could be new skills that works like a mix of Plague Signet and Epidemic, but with boons : Steal boons from allies to you, add duration from concentration, then after strip you from all boons you have and give it to 5 allies near you.The application could be from a signet (passive effect steal boons, active give it as epidemic), well (ground targeted to have a better control on this, pulse steal one boon, final pulse give it back), or like a 2 sequence skill like Spectral Walk/Spectral Recall (takes, then gives).For the group utility, it could be a way for the necro to take the boons made individually to share them for the other members. Small acces to some boons will be shared to the whole team, with an increased duration thanks to concentration. Of course this idea is difficult to work because it need to create new skills and/or traits so I know it will never see the daylight.

• Vampiric presence : This trait is really underwhelming right now in term of damage/sustain. I find it pretty boring as well because it is passive. Could it make the necromancer more wanted if the siphon damage could be scaled to 10% of the players damage ? As it would be powerful, why not make it a buff who last 5, 7 or 10 sec, activated by entering shroud ?The counterpart of the longer cooldown of the desert shroud would be that the scourge would profite from the healing part of the siphon.

That's all. So what do you guys think about it ? What would you suggest as changes for the core traits and skills ? I would like to thank you for your attention and sorry for the bad english as it is not my native tongue.

[Justine.6351]

Dual wield rifles for ranged dps.

[ZDragon.3046]

@thanatosryback.5043 said:

• Steal boon mechanics and share management : The necromancer always been said to be an egoist profession. But I think his selfishness could become an interesting thing : accumulate then finally share. It could be new skills that works like a mix of Plague Signet and Epidemic, but with boons : Steal boons from allies to you, add duration from concentration, then after strip you from all boons you have and give it to 5 allies near you.The application could be from a signet (passive effect steal boons, active give it as epidemic), well (ground targeted to have a better control on this, pulse steal one boon, final pulse give it back), or like a 2 sequence skill like Spectral Walk/Spectral Recall (takes, then gives).For the group utility, it could be a way for the necro to take the boons made individually to share them for the other members. Small acces to some boons will be shared to the whole team, with an increased duration thanks to concentration. Of course this idea is difficult to work because it need to create new skills and/or traits so I know it will never see the daylight.

This idea is very complicated to be honest I even had a hard time understanding it just reading it. It might be a bit too situational Necro just needed generally more access too boons. More importantly anet would likely undermine this as one of those high risk low reward kinda things so it wouldn't be worth taking.With scourge they have a trait called "Feed from corruption" The mechanic of this trait should have ben rolled into a core trait or simply been made a core part of necros boon corrupt skills period. But now that scourge has it core will never see it

• Vampiric presence : This trait is really underwhelming right now in term of damage/sustain. I find it pretty boring as well because it is passive. Could it make the necromancer more wanted if the siphon damage could be scaled to 10% of the players damage ? As it would be powerful, why not make it a buff who last 5, 7 or 10 sec, activated by entering shroud ?The counterpart of the longer cooldown of the desert shroud would be that the scourge would profite from the healing part of the siphon.

This is a good idea healing power and power scale badly with the vampiric traits how ever 1 thing concerns me. It can just be % of any damage it should only be power damage. More importantly 10% is very generous for the dps stacking nerco can potentially do. If it was 10% of critical damage and change this trait to only work for the necro that would be good. We really dont need altruistic vampiric traits it makes them weak when you try to use them that way but anet wants a dark nasty class to support for some reason.

MY ideas are this though.

• Make barrier a self necro thing in general (give scourge better barrier sharing) Make life force across all core and reaper a barrier gain upon entering shroud based on how much life force they have currently (turn current life force into barrier upon entering shroud, leaving early saves the barrier back into LF) (Allowing utility skills to be used and healing to occur)
• More life force gain across some weapon sets/ Speed or damage increase across some weapon sets (this is more so needed for pvp where you dont have things getting killed around you all the time to keep your life force up)
• Make shroud skills more utility/defensive based and increase damage across all weapons or make shroud skills much more damaging (profession mechanic worthy of being locked out of utility)
• Give necro more use of the ammo system I dont think we got a single skill that uses this feature aside from the new scourge shade summons (once again no love to core)
• Change life stealing to be a % of outgoing raw damage or crit damage instead of a flat number that can never really change (because healing power scales so badly on necro)
• Stop giving necromancer altruistic traits and change the current ones (this is not only thematically bad but also high risk low reward. If a necro wants to help it should be by undermining foes and enemies or very nasty tricks like leeching hp not things like transfusion or pulling deadly conditions that dooms the necro if you pull the wrong condition at the wrong moment)
• Make signets great again (Vamp signet needs a much shorter proc time on the heal on hit maybe 1/2 second procs also remove its altruistic feature on activation and make it more selfish for the necromancer. Ideally it should just be moderate heal and a time period where a large % damage on the mark target is returned as health to the necro Even guardian some what gets this right with the meditation heal and it does not require you hit a specific target anything that can take damage will do. , Signet of spite cd is too high and its activation conflicts with itself. Passively increasing power but applying weak conditions on activation?)
• Speaking vamp signet lets tone down get hit/pull condition to gain something ideal on necromancer or at least make the reward worth the risk. These ideas are only truly effective under the idea that you have something to shield your health pool when getting hit but a worthless hazard during any other point. Change spectral armor to absorb incoming damage to life force? (Defiance stance etc)
• More damage modifiers.
• Make boons you corrupt or rip from foes with weapon skills apply a copy of the boon to yourself (this would help core necro sooo much) baseline on those skills or in some other core trait (remove this from scourge and give scourge a better offensive option in its bottom grandmaster trait)

[pah.4931]

@Justine.6351 said:Dual wield rifles for ranged dps.

I am actually cooking up an elite spec idea (for funsies) that would equip this.

[Dadnir.5038]

What I suggest:

• Look at core shroud, this is really needed. It's certainly boring to say again and again, bt the necromancer's shroud skills really need some tuning.

• Teach to the golem how to swim... Yeah that's silly but this should have been done years ago.

• Revamp the way vampirism work on the necromancer, make it heal the necromancer by a % age of damage instead of a set amount. Yeah, I'm starting strong here but that's most likely one of the things that would benefit the most the necromancer. This would allow us to get rid of these extra damage from siphons that are an excuse for less damage modifiers.

• A clear statement on whether anet want necromancer to deal damage while in shroud or not. The shroud is in an everlasting undetermined place that make him barely usefull as a dps tool despite a lot of traits trying to improve it's dps. There is a need for a bit of punch in this area whether it's for sustain damage or burst damage and since it's need for both core and reaper the logical answer is to address this issue on core. Most likely at the genesis of the necromancer they intended the down trait to affect the shroud but with their rushed revamp after the alpha, it's possible that they totally forgot about it.

• Giving support tools that fit the necromancer. I know that there seem to be quite a bt already but the necromancer is supposed to be the master at weathering down the strenghts of it's foes. We can take take the fact that they corrupt boon as a clear intent of that statement but this is only valid in a part of the game. Other professions have unique buff that help them to bypass the boons limits, give the necromancer unique debuff that help him to bypass the debuffs limits in order to have a clear superiority in this area.

• Reduce the reliance on corruption tools, in a way it's what make the necromancer the most toxic, they are way to focused on boons destruction, leading them to own an imbalanced amount of boon hate. Anet pushed blindly to much in this area, boons corruption should have stayed a tactical weapon of the necromancer, yet it's been made the bread and butter.

• The self inflicted condition mechanism could really have benefit from traits that take advantage of this. At the moment, the necromancer only have 1 trait that give him LF when he draw a condition upon himself. It's an intelligent trait but very limited, the idea would have deserved to be expanded to other effects.

So in short, a serious look at the shroud mechanism, a revamp of the siphon mechanism, making boon corruption a tactical tool again, a fitting unique debuff and traits that grant benefit upon harming oneself. That done in a comprehensive way and a will to put the dps potential of the necromancer into an average position would make a better necromancer.

[Rym.1469]

Fix Terror/Fear traits so that both are in Curses and not competing for the spot. This odd split between Curses and SR (and the fact that Terror competes with PoC) is what killed Terrormancer after the specialization update.

Turn Death Magic into something worthwhile so it can function as 3rd line for core, ideally providing lockdown defense and either life force generation or vitality/self-healing. Merge 3 minion traits into one.

Add a damaging condition to Shroud 4/Hasten Life Blast closer to levels of Plague Blast. Alternatively, making it possible for Life Blast to hit more than once (returning projectile at 50% power, maybe additional hit with reduced strength in melee range?).

Spectral Walk going down in cooldown to 30-40s baseline. Flesh Wurm getting shorter cast time and greater range (1500-2000).As for personal requests, possibly a buff to Spectral Wall. Stunbreak, cooldown reduction (ammo system?), Life Force generation - one or two of these. It's one of the more creative and fun skills of Necromancer that goes well with Terror, but is always outclassed just a bit by other staple utilities. It being a situational replacement for Plague Signet (power focus comps) or for Spectral Armor (if it generated LF, for Terror builds) would've made me very happy.

That's a quick rundown, focused mostly on core pvp side of things.

[vicious.5683]

Shroud needs a trait that allow convert life force into dps.Something like: "Life force is consumed twice as fast. You deal double damage while in shroud."This way we can trade survivability for damage.

[Zero.3871]

stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,stability,

[Zoltreez.6435]

An Entire Overhaul on Both all our Weapon Skills and Trait lines

[ZDragon.3046]

@Rym.1469 said:Fix Terror/Fear traits so that both are in Curses and not competing for the spot. This odd split between Curses and SR (and the fact that Terror competes with PoC) is what killed Terrormancer after the specialization update.

Turn Death Magic into something worthwhile so it can function as 3rd line for core, ideally providing lockdown defense and either life force generation or vitality/self-healing. Merge 3 minion traits into one.

Add a damaging condition to Shroud 4/Hasten Life Blast closer to levels of Plague Blast. Alternatively, making it possible for Life Blast to hit more than once (returning projectile at 50% power, maybe additional hit in melee range?).

All 3 of these yes so much yes!

• Bring terror back as a interesting option although it still wouldn't be all that viable (much condi clear, stability, resistance in the game now) (give terror trait the power to turn fear into an effect instead of a condition? that way its only countered by stability and hard break stuns, not condi clear and resistance.... :skull: )

• The life blast toned up to meet plague blast would be a really good option it does not even need to hit twice so long as it fired off at the same speed as plague blast does. Ive asked Robert Gee about doing this in the past and he said it was always up for consideration but i don't know how true that is. IT never came through so i guess not up for consideration.

• Make boon corrupts target stability and resistance before any other boon (thief already does this with stealing boons. They will always steal stability before any other boon regardless of the application order. or number of boons covering stability)

ASLO MORE AMMO SYSTEM ON SKILLS PLSCORRUPT BOON, SPECTRAL WALL,

[ZDragon.3046]

@Rym.1469 said:Fix Terror/Fear traits so that both are in Curses and not competing for the spot. This odd split between Curses and SR (and the fact that Terror competes with PoC) is what killed Terrormancer after the specialization update.

Turn Death Magic into something worthwhile so it can function as 3rd line for core, ideally providing lockdown defense and either life force generation or vitality/self-healing. Merge 3 minion traits into one.

Add a damaging condition to Shroud 4/Hasten Life Blast closer to levels of Plague Blast. Alternatively, making it possible for Life Blast to hit more than once (returning projectile at 50% power, maybe additional hit in melee range?).

All 3 of these yes so much yes!

• Bring terror back as a interesting option although it still wouldn't be all that viable (much condi clear, stability, resistance in the game now) (give terror trait the power to turn fear into an effect instead of a condition? that way its only countered by stability and hard break stuns, not condi clear and resistance.... :skull: )

• The life blast toned up to meet plague blast would be a really good option it does not even need to hit twice so long as it fired off at the same speed as plague blast does. Ive asked Robert Gee about doing this in the past and he said it was always up for consideration but i don't know how true that is. IT never came through so i guess not up for consideration.

• Make boon corrupts target stability and resistance before any other boon (thief already does this with stealing boons. They will always steal stability before any other boon regardless of the application order. or number of boons covering stability)

ASLO MORE AMMO SYSTEM ON SKILLS PLSCORRUPT BOON, SPECTRAL WALL,

[nekretaal.6485]

The weapon skills are bad. I think that's the biggest problem. PvE wise they need 40% more damage. Only warhorn (and torch) are properly tuned.

Here is One way to fix focus:(1) turn focus 4 into a copy of mirror blade, have it spawn a jagged horror instead of a clone.(2) have focus 5 convert 2 boons (instead of rip them and do conditional power damage) but give it a much lower cool down.

This way the damage in pvp becomes real instead of theoretical, and the minion increases PvE dps while not affecting pvp in the slightest (minions can't hit moving players), and the boon ripping 5 on a low cooldown becomes a control tool instead of a spike tool whose useability is out of the necromancer' control.

[Crinn.7864]

We need significantly less traits that require the target to be below 50% to function.

Seriously half of the Spite traitline only works against <50% health targets.

[vicious.5683]

@Crinn.7864 said:We need significantly less traits that require the target to be below 50% to function.

Seriously half of the Spite traitline only works against <50% health targets.

Those traits were thought with the whole concept of "necromancers are the attrition class" in mind."Necromancers get stronger the longer is the fight" Although, it was always completely bullshit.

[Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046]

A reflect in our utilities, Scourge interacting with DS traits and open scourge utilities without necessary traits.Is all we need..

iow. would like to see a untraited "Blink" , A reflect & Shades Crits when using a DS traits.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046" said:A reflect in our utilities, Scourge interacting with DS traits and open scourge utilities without necessary traits.Is all we need..

iow. would like to see a untraited "Blink" , A reflect & Shades Crits when using a DS traits.

Y'know, I dream of seeing minion's life and damage gained from traits be baseline, removing effectively flesh of the master and necromantic corruption as traits. And see death nova being replaced by a minion trait which could be called flesh of the abomination that prevent you from summoning minions but instead make you use with your own body the active part of the minions spell. Imagine yourself having access to a 2 ammo blast that does pretty good damage, a 1200 range teleport on foe that blind, chill and weaken while out of shroud, a 1200 teleport on target area that break stun, poison, weaken and blast the area, a charge on 40 second cool down that cure moveent impairing condition, grant you stability that launch foes on your path... That would be a trait that would be game changing! A true grandmaster trait!

NB.: Ok... to avoid cry from the necro haters, this trait would reducethe necro's vitality by 50 point for each minion skill equiped. (which would effectively remove the "necro can't have good thing because they have large health pool!")

Eddit: Heck!!! I'd even be willing to sacrifice a 100 point of vitality per minion skill equiped (which would total to 5k less health and 2.5k less life force)

[Arzurag.7506]

Reworking the whole bloodmagic-traitline, adding a trait that gives lifesteal on hit on all of your weapon-abilities.Lifesteal means you get 10% of your maximum health back as life.Furthermore add a trait for increased attackspeed if you have daggers equipped.Rework dagger3 into a twice-hitting leap-forward ability.Additionally add a trait that converts a percentage of your life to power.And finally make dagger2 aoe in a 360 cycle.

[Subli.8217]

also make lifesteal crit

[Slayer.7318]

I feel the weapons need more of a role feel to them similar to other classes . Staff is alright in it current state it is good for tag and wvwvw more so for keeping enemies off the wall so not much really needs doing to that . Dagger off hand needs a block skill on slot 5 . Something to fit necromancer like bone shield or flesh shield . A block that will punish attackers with bleed or poison when they attack the blocker . Dagger main hand I feel should have more of a life drain mechanic, making duel dagger more of a survival / life draining sort of weapon set . The axe does not know what it wants to be . I feel a power weapon that can hit more than 1 target maybe rendering claw being able to hit nearby foes to your foe and skill 2 maybe spinning the axe makes claws fly around it like a aoe channel sort of skill . We already have Scepter which is very single target based excluding skill 2 so why do we need 2 like that?. Focus should be all about boon stealing . Skill 4 stealing a buff off a foe and when hitting a Allie granting that buff to them . Greatsword just needs faster animations and skill 5 needs fix for how buggy it is on certain terrain . Scourge skill 5 or 4 being able to create a fire field would help their utility in a raid . I am really suprised necro don’t get more traits based on how many conditions they have . A trait that boosts damage and Condi damage the more they are inflicted with would be good . Maybe giving a bigger boost if those conditions were self inflicted conditions . With signets being a grandmaster trait maybe make signets passive effect nearby allies if the necro is running plauge signet and plauge signet is not on cooldown .