The real way to balance condi

[TheBravery.9615]

Make all damaging condis stack duration, only stack intensity if there's 5 seconds or more of any damage condi on a target.

There. The ramp for condi dps is fixed and it's no longer capable of bursting as power is designed for. EZ

[Draco.9480]

or learn to play a power build instead? most bosses in raids and fracs are power favor. yer idea will just destroy the game even more.

[Offair.2563]

This solution will fix wvw condi imbalance for sure.

[Carighan.6758]

Or just make DoTs vs DDs a function of class design? Because you know, it worked for all other RPGs in the last 30 years, so clearly it must be the wrong solution! :expressionless:

[Shirlias.8104]

Or remove conditions from gw2.

[sacredninja.5236]

@Shirlias.8104 said:Or remove conditions from gw2.

i like this idea :D

[Lokki.1092]

@Carighan.6758 said:Or just make DoTs vs DDs a function of class design? Because you know, it worked for all other RPGs in the last 30 years, so clearly it must be the wrong solutions! :expressionless:

I've been saying this for years.Either way conditions and CC definitely need to be separated.

[keyokku.5412]

Ideally there would be a way to balance or separate condis, CC, condi burst, condi duration etc. Ideally we would want condi duration and ramp up for sustained damage. However don't forget that all classes also have access to great on demand condi cleanse. Anet sort of shot itself in the foot and made the situation a lot more complex. Basically their class balance is everyone can do everything, maybe not the best but they can do everything. The only balance that can possibly be done now is adjust the numbers a little.

[Carighan.6758]

@Shirlias.8104 said:Or remove conditions from gw2.

Just like all other cRPGs did, because they turned out to be such a bad concept in hindsight. Which didn't happen. I mean, think about it, it's only in guild wars 2 that we seem to have such a big problem with how DoTs work compared to DDs conceptually and as a result, in overall balance.

And oddly, in this game the devs do very very few balance iterations with tiny scopes and very long breaks in between.

A shame if you were to think there's a connection there. :tongue:

[Adenin.5973]

Condi is superior dps on average. It has to be. That's what the Anet devs said over and over btw.It has a longer ramp up time than Power but is superior after a certain amount of time.

Power is superior in short fights where you can burst out everything you have. Which means trash mob groups, open world PvE in general, Dungeons, Fractals (eventually).Everywhere else, Condi has to be superior, otherwise no one would consider using it. (Imagine choosing between two skills: A: 1k dmg instantly, B: 1k dmg over 10 seconds) Skill B has to do more dmg.That's the design intend.

Btw: To all those who cry about the "condi meta" and that this is the only thing you could play and therefore there would be no diversity in game. Why the hell would you then remove condi, so you would've only power left? You would get even less build diversity.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

Or, just lower the condi-damage and increase the duration to give the same damage per stack, but the full damage will not be realized till a little later. Anet stated that Condi was meant to be more useful for things that will take a long time. Where Power is immediate. If you are fighting a bunch of low health players, power is typically better. But when they start bunkering, or you are dealing with bosses, suddenly Condi shines.

[Astralporing.1957]

I have a better solution. Remove condis. Then, cry on forums about a bunker meta.

[sasya neko.1985]

i know a good idea, remove power and see ppl cry about not being able to DPS an enemy.......wha wha -_-

[Rauderi.8706]

@sorudo.9054 said:i know a good idea, remove power and see ppl cry about not being able to DPS an enemy.......wha wha -_-

Apparently, the condi meta is so good, it deletes Berserker gear right off the server!

Granted, the condition game can get a little excessive. Cleanses need to be built more into all facets of the character: weapons, traits, skills. They don't even have to be full cleanses, but more specific/targeted removals (like many skills and traits offer chill/immob/cripple removal on movement-themed ones). It would also mean more strategic use of AoE removals of similar skills, which would stretch into PvP/WvW groupings.

[Einlanzer.1627]

@Carighan.6758 said:Or just make DoTs vs DDs a function of class design? Because you know, it worked for all other RPGs in the last 30 years, so clearly it must be the wrong solution! :expressionless:

Nah. I don't like this option. I don't care if other MMOs had success with it - I prefer GW's style of making professions open-ended with lots of different ways to build them.

[TexZero.7910]

@Adenin.5973 said:Condi is superior dps on average. It has to be. That's what the Anet devs said over and over btw.It has a longer ramp up time than Power but is superior after a certain amount of time.

It should have a longer ramp up time. Problem is it currently doesn't.

[CptAurellian.9537]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Adenin.5973 said:Condi is superior dps on average. It has to be. That's what the Anet devs said over and over btw.It has a longer ramp up time than Power but is superior after a certain amount of time.

It should have a longer ramp up time. Problem is it currently doesn't.Exactly this. And even if ramp up time was more reasonable, the difference between top condi builds and the top power builds is too much.

[maddoctor.2738]

Or give bosses condi cleanse

[mtpelion.4562]

@maddoctor.2738 said:Or give bosses condi cleanse

Or give them adds that cleanse condis, since power builds would be good at killing the adds before they can cleanse the condis on the boss.

[TexZero.7910]

@maddoctor.2738 said:Or give bosses condi cleanse

Even in spots where this is the case, sloth, sab, (xera tanked poorly getting resistance) it doesn't dampen the strength of condi's enough to make a difference because the overall strength of their upfront damage is too strong. The only way i can see this changing is if condi's have back loaded damage ex does half damage for the first 1/2 duration and double damage on the back half.

[TexZero.7910]

missclicked edit

[IndigoSundown.5419]

The solution to issues with condition damage is the same as that for issues with direct damage. Identify outlier skills on the heavy end and reduce their numbers. Identify outlier skills on the light end and increase their numbers. Maybe some of the solutions that would involve ANet reinventing the wheel would also work -- but ANet is not going to reinvent the wheel.

[Lokki.1092]

@Adenin.5973 said:Condi is superior dps on average. It has to be. That's what the Anet devs said over and over btw.It has a longer ramp up time than Power but is superior after a certain amount of time.

Power is superior in short fights where you can burst out everything you have. Which means trash mob groups, open world PvE in general, Dungeons, Fractals (eventually).Everywhere else, Condi has to be superior, otherwise no one would consider using it. (Imagine choosing between two skills: A: 1k dmg instantly, B: 1k dmg over 10 seconds) Skill B has to do more dmg.That's the design intend.

Btw: To all those who cry about the "condi meta" and that this is the only thing you could play and therefore there would be no diversity in game. Why the hell would you then remove condi, so you would've only power left? You would get even less build diversity.

This is another problem, Condi players don't want to change and keep us in this cycle.

Condi does not need superior DPS on average. DoT builds in literally every other MMO ever made have not needed to have superior damage to compete with non DoT based damage builds. The ramp up time is either diminished, or taken into account with the damage numbers.

Conditions needs to be able to crit, and gain damage from power. The current game has 2 "damage" stats for... Reasons... Other MMOs don't have this problem because, Damage/Power/attackP/MainStat All simply increase your damage no matter what sort of skill you are using to deal that damage. DoTs vs Direct damage does not have this problem outside of Guildwars 2, because outside of guildwars 2 they are class/spec mechanics instead of what we have here.

You are looking at build diversity from the wrong side. You are seeing everyone running power and using power weapon as fixed, because now most people run Condi and a condi weapon with a good amount of power players mixed in. look twice the builds! But on the other side (especially in pvp game modes) everyone runs the exact same utilities, same heals, same off weapon, same everything because now we get no choice. Condi is so powerful that we have to spend everything we can to defend against it, and utilize it to it's full potential. Alternately if Condi started working like DoTs in every other game made, there wouldn't be so much CC or duration nerfs. Maybe we could have had whole builds dedicated to controlling the battlefield. There wouldn't be a split in weapons! You want to be a bow/GS warrior? Go ahead because power gives you damage no matter what damn weapon you are using. We could get entirely new builds and utility usage, because Condition removals could become CC removal and not needed 100% of the time. Condition is not creating more build diversity, it is choking it.

[Leamas.5803]

The thing with condi builds is that they have always been overpowered in WvW/PvP, if you ask the power builds, but is that because they're truly overpowered or that so many "power" players run zerker glass canon builds and are easy fodder for conditions. In general, condition/magic builds are also more skill rotation depended and condi players are more likely to know how to get the most of their build to get that stack up where a lot of zerkers approach a fight with the attitude of run in do as much damage as possible until they go down and hope someone rez's them. Many don't even try to protect themselves. How does that make my necro overpowered if they don't dodge my marks or spec condition cleansing skills?

Condi in PvE is horribly underpowered and always has been. Unlike most power "players" who typically favor to not spec condition removal skills, many PvE bosses are all about condi immunity/removal. Condition builds are also useless against inanimate object (I'm thinking the graveler mounds in AC, as an example). Also, up until being removed recently, I think it came with HoT, condi builds were hampered by an arbitrarily low stack limit of 25, which a good necro can build alone, added to this, the fact that most power build can also apply a certain amount of conditions, it made condi specs all but useless in many group situations as well as pointless to run content together, but fine solo.

Without a complete ground up redesign, I don't think there is a way to really fix it so that it works well in both situations. Maybe they'll rework it in GW3.

[TexZero.7910]

@Leamas.5803 said:The thing with condi builds is that they have always been overpowered in WvW/PvP, if you ask the power builds, but is that because they're truly overpowered or that so many "power" players run zerker glass canon builds and are easy fodder for conditions. In general, condition/magic builds are also more skill rotation depended and condi players are more likely to know how to get the most of their build to get that stack up where a lot of zerkers approach a fight with the attitude of run in do as much damage as possible until they go down and hope someone rez's them. Many don't even try to protect themselves. How does that make my necro overpowered if they don't dodge my marks or spec condition cleansing skills?

Condi in PvE is horribly underpowered and always has been. Unlike most power "players" who typically favor to not spec condition removal skills, many PvE bosses are all about condi immunity/removal. Condition builds are also useless against inanimate object (I'm thinking the graveler mounds in AC, as an example). Also, up until being removed recently, I think it came with HoT, condi builds were hampered by an arbitrarily low stack limit of 25, which a good necro can build alone, added to this, the fact that most power build can also apply a certain amount of conditions, it made condi specs all but useless in many group situations as well as pointless to run content together, but fine solo.

Without a complete ground up redesign, I don't think there is a way to really fix it so that it works well in both situations. Maybe they'll rework it in GW3.

Did we go back in time 3 years ?

Condi has been busted in PvE for quite a while now....Not underpowered.