The truth about necros...

[Brimstone Jack.3462]

If necros were as OP and "broken" as everyone keeps pretending they are because they can't steamroll them in a single rotation, everyone would be playing them to stay competitive. Just stop already. When people who actually counterplay see you complaining like that, it looks bad. Balance is focused on high-end play because you don't balance around people not playing correctly. That would be ridiculous.

Are their rotations and gameplay simple? Yes. Are they broken? Not a chance. Grab some cleanse and start learning to corrupt boons. You'll be fine.

[Norbe.7630]

I dont think necros OPi dont think everyone thinks necros op

[Filip.7463]

Who said necro is OP or broken?

[Axl.8924]

There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

[Ragnar.4257]

What you're seeing is the effect of the 2v2 mini-season.

Necro is incredibly strong in 2v2 deathmatch, but less strong in 5v5 conquest, because 5v5 has more space to exploit necro's weaknesses, and more opportunities to focus-fire down the necro with 3-4 players. and also Lich can't cheese a long 5v5 match as easily.

So everyone who's been playing 2v2 recently thinks its super strong. Then we go back into 5v5 season and nobody cares any more.

[Vancho.8750]

@Ragnar.4257 said:What you're seeing is the effect of the 2v2 mini-season.

Necro is incredibly strong in 2v2 deathmatch, but less strong in 5v5 conquest, because 5v5 has more space to exploit necro's weaknesses, and more opportunities to focus-fire down the necro with 3-4 players. and also Lich can't cheese a long 5v5 match as easily.

So everyone who's been playing 2v2 recently thinks its super strong. Then we go back into 5v5 season and nobody cares any more.That is exactly it, necro works in the buddy system the best since it is designed that way, the whole life force shroud mechanic requires targets to get to maximum effectiveness as the same time it does not have some amazing defenses to survive and it needs someone to watch your back. So the deathmatch be it 2v2 3v3 is just the area of effectiveness that necro has in conquest, it is just good in skirmishes and teamfights be default cause that is its place but it really doesn't have much outside of that . Necro is probably one of their better designed classes (well except scourge that was constant area denial, which is terrible idea from the start) , since it has its niche and can't overlap other positions with one build (like many no identity classes that are great at all things).

[Dantheman.3589]

Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

[ixora.3569]

High end play? in this game lmao get real kid. Take a look around pvp is just casual fun and people who take it seriously need to re-evaluate your life.

[hanabal lecter.2495]

@ixora.3569 said:High end play? in this game lmao get real kid. Take a look around pvp is just casual fun and people who take it seriously need to re-evaluate your life.

But they are serious, serious about getting their leggy backpiece and amulet then going back to pve lol.

[anduriell.6280]

@"Axl.8924" said:There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

I wouldn't go that far, any ranger main knows they are a hard counter against necros. This seems more like a multiclass learning the ropes and learning ranger is not as easy as it seems in sPvP.

[Yasai.3549]

Necros aren't OP.They're just perform really well for the little amount of effort needed to master it and put it into practice.

But if yu put a high skilled Necro vs an equally high skilled Profession like, idk, Thief, Revenant, Mesmer or Ranger, the Necro is extremely disadvantaged by the fact they have a certain "threat zone" as well as the fact their entire kit and utility is so basic and predicatable.

When yu have a kit as basic and predicatable like that, yur outplay potential is limited to the enemy making a mistake and getting into the threat zone and getting punished.If not, Necros actually have no real chance to beat anyone of equal skill calibur.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Norbe.7630 said:I dont think necros OPi dont think everyone thinks necros op

@Filip.7463 said:Who said necro is OP or broken?

It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

Lots of debate could go on about Lich Form being ok or needing nerfs. But before discussing Lich, players should acknowledge that the bulk of the complaints vs. Lich stems from 2v2 seasons, where a round can be won in 30s from a single use of Lich, and then the Lich resets its CD when the new round begins, bypassing its intended long ICD. This is a problem with 2v2/3v3 format, not Lich Form. No one complains about Lich in 5v5 conquest.

@"Axl.8924" said:There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

All Rangers hard counter all Necros. Any Ranger who complains about Necromancer is certainly a bad player.

[Klypto.1703]

Hard counter to rangers is destroy their #2 key.

[Dadnir.5038]

@anduriell.6280 said:

@"Axl.8924" said:There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

I wouldn't go that far, any ranger main knows they are a hard counter against necros. This seems more like a multiclass learning the ropes and learning ranger is not as easy as it seems in sPvP.

To be fair the thread has been created by a ranger that insist to use the few ranger's tools that don't hard counter the necromancer. His build isn't bad per se, from what he say it work against most professions, but when facing a necromancer it fall short (and I even say that his build is hard countered). It's more an issue of someone lacking the ability to acknowledge that he don't use the proper tools than an issue of balance.

[Bazsi.2734]

If 2v2 or 3v3 would be the main gamemode, I'd totally agree with those wanting nerfs, however... it's not. Did the monthly tourney even have necros in it?

[Norbe.7630]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

Ah is see, the 2v2 season.Maybe we should teach the noobs the mechanics of the games first like in PvE raids or World boss, the hardest hitting on lich form was a projectile skill 1.(i think i learned that first during one of my first fractal runs fighting asuran golem, where mesmer puts dome reflects on that golem, im sorry i forgot the PvE names and terms, i don't do that mode often)

On that season i ran, trapper druid (w/staff), burn guard (w/shield), scourge/necro (w/poison cloud), mesmer (w/ kiting skill)

My favorite part on that was i am acting being hurt or panicking while enemies are on lich form while I'm inside the poison cloud on my necro, their lich form expires faster than my poison cloud.

Noobs just panics when they see an enemy on lich form, they run.

[Filip.7463]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Norbe.7630 said:I dont think necros OPi dont think everyone thinks necros op

@Filip.7463 said:Who said necro is OP or broken?

It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

Lots of debate could go on about Lich Form being ok or needing nerfs. But before discussing Lich, players should acknowledge that the bulk of the complaints vs. Lich stems from 2v2 seasons, where a round can be won in 30s from a single use of Lich, and then the Lich resets its CD when the new round begins, bypassing its intended long ICD. This is a problem with 2v2/3v3 format, not Lich Form. No one complains about Lich in 5v5 conquest.

@"Axl.8924" said:There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

All Rangers hard counter all Necros. Any Ranger who complains about Necromancer is certainly a bad player.

Lich is for noobs, 150s CD. Easy to kite lich, dodge, reflect, block - its like 0 velocity.Good players use chilled to the bone

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Filip.7463 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Norbe.7630 said:I dont think necros OPi dont think everyone thinks necros op

@Filip.7463 said:Who said necro is OP or broken?

It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

Lots of debate could go on about Lich Form being ok or needing nerfs. But before discussing Lich, players should acknowledge that the bulk of the complaints vs. Lich stems from 2v2 seasons, where a round can be won in 30s from a single use of Lich, and then the Lich resets its CD when the new round begins, bypassing its intended long ICD. This is a problem with 2v2/3v3 format, not Lich Form. No one complains about Lich in 5v5 conquest.

@"Axl.8924" said:There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

All Rangers hard counter all Necros. Any Ranger who complains about Necromancer is certainly a bad player.

Lich is for noobs, 150s CD. Easy to kite lich, dodge, reflect, block - its like 0 velocity.Good players use chilled to the bone

you mean 75s cd, 1,25s cast time " enemy loses 1 dodge "vs 150s cd " enemy has to give up for 10s "

[Filip.7463]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Norbe.7630 said:I dont think necros OPi dont think everyone thinks necros op

@Filip.7463 said:Who said necro is OP or broken?

It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

Lots of debate could go on about Lich Form being ok or needing nerfs. But before discussing Lich, players should acknowledge that the bulk of the complaints vs. Lich stems from 2v2 seasons, where a round can be won in 30s from a single use of Lich, and then the Lich resets its CD when the new round begins, bypassing its intended long ICD. This is a problem with 2v2/3v3 format, not Lich Form. No one complains about Lich in 5v5 conquest.

@"Axl.8924" said:There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

All Rangers hard counter all Necros. Any Ranger who complains about Necromancer is certainly a bad player.

Lich is for noobs, 150s CD. Easy to kite lich, dodge, reflect, block - its like 0 velocity.Good players use chilled to the bone

you mean 75s cd, 1,25s cast time " enemy loses 1 dodge "vs 150s cd " enemy has to give up for 10s "

Ever heard for dodge, block, reflect, aegis, retalitation?Guard and scrapper can block lich for whole team and usually there is a guard in each team since its very common class.

Oh and necro has to exit lich if there are some condis on him ;)

[Virdo.1540]

well i had quite a few rounds that had 3necros in the enemy team (or more than 3)

Scourges are ok.Reapers are borderline, but still managableCore Necros have too much Shroud regeneration / too low shroud cooldown.They use shroud until its empty, If they reach 66% health, the shroud is completely full again. If shroud is empty, necros are fully healed again.

Is handles condis very well and power got nerfed, so there are no real threats to it anymore.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Filip.7463 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Norbe.7630 said:I dont think necros OPi dont think everyone thinks necros op

@Filip.7463 said:Who said necro is OP or broken?

It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

Lots of debate could go on about Lich Form being ok or needing nerfs. But before discussing Lich, players should acknowledge that the bulk of the complaints vs. Lich stems from 2v2 seasons, where a round can be won in 30s from a single use of Lich, and then the Lich resets its CD when the new round begins, bypassing its intended long ICD. This is a problem with 2v2/3v3 format, not Lich Form. No one complains about Lich in 5v5 conquest.

@"Axl.8924" said:There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

All Rangers hard counter all Necros. Any Ranger who complains about Necromancer is certainly a bad player.

Lich is for noobs, 150s CD. Easy to kite lich, dodge, reflect, block - its like 0 velocity.Good players use chilled to the bone

you mean 75s cd, 1,25s cast time " enemy loses 1 dodge "vs 150s cd " enemy has to give up for 10s "

Ever heard for dodge, block, reflect, aegis, retalitation?Guard and scrapper can block lich for whole team and usually there is a guard in each team since its very common class.

Oh and necro has to exit lich if there are some condis on him ;)

I did, its much easier to block/blind/dodge once then do it for 10s, which is why lich is OP. yes proj block/reflect is a hard counter, but most classes cant really afford to take thoseOh and necro can use their 1200 range to use the lich safely and not run into the condis. :)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Lich autos need a 50% damage nerf, after that necros fine.

[Axl.8924]

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Lich autos need a 50% damage nerf, after that necros fine.

Nerfing damage is problematic since it has such a high cd 150s s for damage that is bad is kinda gonna put lich in the unsueable stage.

50% is too huge.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form says 150% here which is huge huge CD for such a big nerf which would cripple and hobble core.

Like others have said prob an issue in 2v2.

Also if it does need a nerf better to start small to see how much instead of huge 90% nerfs 200% nerfs.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Axl.8924 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Lich autos need a 50% damage nerf, after that necros fine.

Nerfing damage is problematic since it has such a high cd 150s s for damage that is bad is kinda gonna put lich in the unsueable stage.

50% is too huge.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form

says 150% here which is huge huge CD for such a big nerf which would cripple and hobble core.

Like others have said prob an issue in 2v2.

Also if it does need a nerf better to start small to see how much instead of huge 90% nerfs 200% nerfs.

I'd say that it wouldn't be an issue if they nerf the AA thought. Technically, the feb patch made the sustain from grim specter (lich#5) a lot more potent which can be seen as a balance point for a possible loss of damage on the AA. Now, sure, after close to one year, such a change would only feel like a nerf because everyone is used to the current potency of all the skills.

[Axl.8924]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Lich autos need a 50% damage nerf, after that necros fine.

Nerfing damage is problematic since it has such a high cd 150s s for damage that is bad is kinda gonna put lich in the unsueable stage.

50% is too huge.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form

says 150% here which is huge huge CD for such a big nerf which would cripple and hobble core.

Like others have said prob an issue in 2v2.

Also if it does need a nerf better to start small to see how much instead of huge 90% nerfs 200% nerfs.

I'd say that it wouldn't be an issue if they nerf the AA thought. Technically, the feb patch made the sustain from

grim specter

(lich#5) a lot more potent which can be seen as a balance point for a possible loss of damage on the AA. Now, sure, after close to one year, such a change would only feel like a nerf because everyone is used to the current potency of all the skills.

I dunno 50% is such a huge number and what about the huge CD? usually huge nerfs like the way in wow when they did 50% nerf 60% nerf and gutting a class or some cases here too a skill makes it useless.