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The truth about necros...


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@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Lich autos need a 50% damage nerf, after that necros fine.

Nerfing damage is problematic since it has such a high cd 150s s for damage that is bad is kinda gonna put lich in the unsueable stage.

50% is too huge.

says 150% here which is huge huge CD for such a big nerf which would cripple and hobble core.

Like others have said prob an issue in 2v2.

Also if it does need a nerf better to start small to see how much instead of huge 90% nerfs 200% nerfs.

I'd say that it wouldn't be an issue if they nerf the AA thought. Technically, the feb patch made the sustain from
grim specter
(lich#5) a lot more potent which can be seen as a balance point for a possible loss of damage on the AA. Now, sure, after close to one year, such a change would only feel like a nerf because everyone is used to the current potency of all the skills.

I dunno 50% is such a huge number and what about the huge CD? usually huge nerfs like the way in wow when they did 50% nerf 60% nerf and gutting a class or some cases here too a skill makes it useless.

Maybe but technically both the life leeching and vitality components of grim reaper have seen a significant increase of efficiency with the patch. Is it right to accept this buff of "sustain efficiency" and fight against nerfs on the other side on the basis of "damage efficiency"? Should all healing and damage number values be decreased by 30% for the sake of "fairness" instead? Personally I'd rather have a 50% damage nerf on the AA than a global 30% nerf.

Beside, if a 50% nerf on the AA of a transformation that have a 150s CD is enough to gut a profession, then the profession is already broken at it's core and need to be looked at seriously by the developpers. It's better to get rid of the bandaid that hide the festering wound and threat the wound than keep the bandaid.

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For one the auto's do to much damage regardless of the lich's cooldown because thier ranged, and obviously can be spammed which promotes the opposite type of playstyle that anet should be going for. Necros have two teleports that are commonly used if the so chose to use, a save me button in the form of shroud that regenerates pretty quickly making them have great sustain so they already have a oh shit skill as part of their playstyle and don't need a second one. Necros use lich auto spam as a brainless spam crutch in team fights and is far to effective for how spammy and brainless it is. Anet should be trying to avoid playstyles as such not promote it, until they start changing things like this the games pvp will continue to decline and will never be taken with any remote kind of seriousness.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Lich autos need a 50% damage nerf, after that necros fine.

Nerfing damage is problematic since it has such a high cd 150s s for damage that is bad is kinda gonna put lich in the unsueable stage.

50% is too huge.

says 150% here which is huge huge CD for such a big nerf which would cripple and hobble core.

Like others have said prob an issue in 2v2.

Also if it does need a nerf better to start small to see how much instead of huge 90% nerfs 200% nerfs.

I'd say that it wouldn't be an issue if they nerf the AA thought. Technically, the feb patch made the sustain from
grim specter
(lich#5) a lot more potent which can be seen as a balance point for a possible loss of damage on the AA. Now, sure, after close to one year, such a change would only feel like a nerf because everyone is used to the current potency of all the skills.

I dunno 50% is such a huge number and what about the huge CD? usually huge nerfs like the way in wow when they did 50% nerf 60% nerf and gutting a class or some cases here too a skill makes it useless.

Maybe but technically both the life leeching and vitality components of
grim reaper
have seen a significant increase of efficiency with the patch. Is it right to accept this buff of "sustain efficiency" and fight against nerfs on the other side on the basis of "damage efficiency"? Should all healing and damage number values be decreased by 30% for the sake of "fairness" instead? Personally I'd rather have a 50% damage nerf on the AA than a global 30% nerf.

Beside, if a 50% nerf on the AA of a transformation that have a 150s CD is enough to gut a profession, then the profession is already broken at it's core and need to be looked at seriously by the developpers. It's better to get rid of the bandaid that hide the festering wound and threat the wound than keep the bandaid.

You may well be the only honest necro player left on this forum

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@"Dantheman.3589" said:Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

Nothing more to add

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@Axl.8924 said:Well guess i'm alone on thinking that 150s is absurd if they gut the damage. Maybe if its reduced in CD.

150 is to long, max cd on any skill should be 120. My issue is simply the damage the autos do for 2 reasons 1 its spamable and 2 its ranged. These combined with it's high damage promote a spamming braindead playstyle that's far to effective for effort involved. These skills are part of the reason pvp in gw2 is considered a joke. Ex classes are on node teamfighting and fights going well playstyle wise until a necro goes lich and starts spamming 4.5k autos lmao or guard starts passively burning players for high damage or within that medium length fight a dh drops 2-3 rotations of his traps cuz their low CD's. These types of playstyles are not healthy and on top due to their skill designs even if not built for it they can be pretty tanky as well.Decrease lich CD to 120Nerf its damage on autos by 15% but lose ranged, melee range only orNerf auto damage 30% but keep the ranged autos.Do that and necros are pretty balanced.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Well guess i'm alone on thinking that 150s is absurd if they gut the damage. Maybe if its reduced in CD.

150 is to long, max cd on any skill should be 120. My issue is simply the damage the autos do for 2 reasons 1 its spamable and 2 its ranged. These combined with it's high damage promote a spamming braindead playstyle that's far to effective for effort involved. These skills are part of the reason pvp in gw2 is considered a joke. Ex classes are on node teamfighting and fights going well playstyle wise until a necro goes lich and starts spamming 4.5k autos lmao or guard starts passively burning players for high damage or within that medium length fight a dh drops 2-3 rotations of his traps cuz their low CD's. These types of playstyles are not healthy and on top due to their skill designs even if not built for it they can be pretty tanky as well.Decrease lich CD to 120Nerf its damage on autos by 15% but lose ranged, melee range only orNerf auto damage 30% but keep the ranged autos.Do that and necros are pretty balanced.

30% on autos is more reasonable 50% is huge.

Having 50% less damage whats that like 2k? plus with 150 sec cd or even less is huge.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Well guess i'm alone on thinking that 150s is absurd if they gut the damage. Maybe if its reduced in CD.

150 is to long, max cd on any skill should be 120. My issue is simply the damage the autos do for 2 reasons 1 its spamable and 2 its ranged. These combined with it's high damage promote a spamming braindead playstyle that's far to effective for effort involved. These skills are part of the reason pvp in gw2 is considered a joke. Ex classes are on node teamfighting and fights going well playstyle wise until a necro goes lich and starts spamming 4.5k autos lmao or guard starts passively burning players for high damage or within that medium length fight a dh drops 2-3 rotations of his traps cuz their low CD's. These types of playstyles are not healthy and on top due to their skill designs even if not built for it they can be pretty tanky as well.Decrease lich CD to 120Nerf its damage on autos by 15% but lose ranged, melee range only orNerf auto damage 30% but keep the ranged autos.Do that and necros are pretty balanced.

30% on autos is more reasonable 50% is huge.

Having 50% less damage whats that like 2k? plus with 150 sec cd or even less is huge.

Yeah when I considered it after i typed it I agree 50% is to large of a nerf for any skill. Imo small nerfs that are tested over time and reassessed is a better approach than just hammering any skill with a huge nerf. Even a 25% instead of 30% would prob be significant enough as 30% is a big nerf at once. Unfortunately anet doesn't usually fallow this precedence.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

Nothing more to add

I talk about high-end play because like I said: you don't balance around players who are using it wrong. If you don't understand why then you have never been a high-end player in any game. PVP falls apart when you balance around bad players because there's no incentive to get better and good players that would prop up the mode through thousands of hours of play simply leave.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Norbe.7630 said:I dont think necros OPi dont think everyone thinks necros op

@Filip.7463 said:Who said necro is OP or broken?

It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

Lots of debate could go on about Lich Form being ok or needing nerfs. But before discussing Lich, players should acknowledge that the bulk of the complaints vs. Lich stems from 2v2 seasons, where a round can be won in 30s from a single use of Lich, and then the Lich resets its CD when the new round begins, bypassing its intended long ICD. This is a problem with 2v2/3v3 format, not Lich Form. No one complains about Lich in 5v5 conquest.

@"Axl.8924" said:There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

All Rangers hard counter all Necros. Any Ranger who complains about Necromancer is certainly a bad player.

Lich is for noobs, 150s CD. Easy to kite lich, dodge, reflect, block - its like 0 velocity.Good players use chilled to the bone

you mean 75s cd, 1,25s cast time " enemy loses 1 dodge "vs 150s cd " enemy has to give up for 10s "

Ever heard for dodge, block, reflect, aegis, retalitation?Guard and scrapper can block lich for whole team and usually there is a guard in each team since its very common class.

Oh and necro has to exit lich if there are some condis on him ;)

I did, its much easier to block/blind/dodge once then do it for 10s, which is why lich is OP. yes proj block/reflect is a hard counter, but most classes cant really afford to take thoseOh and necro can use their 1200 range to use the lich safely and not run into the condis. :)

Bad troll.

Half the meta specs use focus/shields anyway, the reflect is just bonus.Then a third gets completely free projectile hate like heal on rev. The rest is actual blind and blocks which most have a ton of also.

But ur biggest fail is calling lich a 1200 range :) omegaLUL if that thing hits anything past 120 range - it can be considered your own fault and missplay for not sidestepping it

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@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

Nothing more to add

I talk about high-end play because like I said: you don't balance around players who are using it wrong. If you don't understand why then you have never been a high-end player in any game. PVP falls apart when you balance around bad players because there's no incentive to get better and good players that would prop up the mode through thousands of hours of play simply leave.

Are u really gonna claim I’ve never been top teir. I thought I were a fan boi who plays necro in g3/p1

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Well guess i'm alone on thinking that 150s is absurd if they gut the damage. Maybe if its reduced in CD.

You're not. I suggested spreading the damage out over the skills and then cutting the elite cd heavily since it's like the only useful elite they have for single/small target damage.

What i'm more worried about is gutting necro damage with lich that it becomes one of those useless things with huge cd and nothing given back to balance out the killpower.

They gutted Ele mesmers for instance and others.

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@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

Nothing more to add

I talk about high-end play because like I said: you don't balance around players who are using it wrong. If you don't understand why then you have never been a high-end player in any game. PVP falls apart when you balance around bad players because there's no incentive to get better and good players that would prop up the mode through thousands of hours of play simply leave.

Are u really gonna claim I’ve never been top teir. I thought I were a fan boi who plays necro in g3/p1

If you think balance should be around people who don't know how to play, yes.

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@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

Nothing more to add

I talk about high-end play because like I said: you don't balance around players who are using it wrong. If you don't understand why then you have never been a high-end player in any game. PVP falls apart when you balance around bad players because there's no incentive to get better and good players that would prop up the mode through thousands of hours of play simply leave.

Are u really gonna claim I’ve never been top teir. I thought I were a fan boi who plays necro in g3/p1

If you think balance should be around people who don't know how to play, yes.

Everyone can reach g3 in 1month or 2, sorry

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Well guess i'm alone on thinking that 150s is absurd if they gut the damage. Maybe if its reduced in CD.

You're not. I suggested spreading the damage out over the skills and then cutting the elite cd heavily since it's like the only useful elite they have for single/small target damage.

What i'm more worried about is gutting necro damage with lich that it becomes one of those useless things with huge cd and nothing given back to balance out the killpower.

They gutted Ele mesmers for instance and others.

What about you increase Lich form utility and reduce the cheese at the same time?

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@Filip.7463 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

Nothing more to add

I talk about high-end play because like I said: you don't balance around players who are using it wrong. If you don't understand why then you have never been a high-end player in any game. PVP falls apart when you balance around bad players because there's no incentive to get better and good players that would prop up the mode through thousands of hours of play simply leave.

Are u really gonna claim I’ve never been top teir. I thought I were a fan boi who plays necro in g3/p1

If you think balance should be around people who don't know how to play, yes.

Everyone can reach g3 in 1month or 2, sorry

Absolutely. But I'm also not claiming to be a top-tier player.

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@"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:If necros were as OP and "broken" as everyone keeps pretending they are because they can't steamroll them in a single rotation, everyone would be playing them to stay competitive. Just stop already. When people who actually counterplay see you complaining like that, it looks bad. Balance is focused on high-end play because you don't balance around people not playing correctly. That would be ridiculous.

Are their rotations and gameplay simple? Yes. Are they broken? Not a chance. Grab some cleanse and start learning to corrupt boons. You'll be fine.

i empathize, I do, it hurts when people salt all over the forums and unnecessary nerfs are made to things which are easily counterable if they learned how to play better. Unfortunately, I don't really know that there is a way to stop people taking to forums and complaining about 'this class being too strong' when the class itself may be either equal or underpowered and there is just a skill gap between them or they are salty coz they had a bad game/no teamwork vs good teamwork, no matter if you post something like this.

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