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Will we ever get respect from Anet? Or Thief just doesnt deserve it?


Carnifex.3275

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@"Skada.1362" said:Shadow arts paired with d/p set is totally busted, everybody knows this. Don't matter if it's thief, daredevil or deadeye. It's absurdly OP and should not be a thing anymore. Imagine if shadow arts and the d/p set saw nerfs and thieves were forced to go back to deadly arts or even SD builds again, it would be so much more fun for everyone. One thing I rarely see people complain about which is surprising to me is Shadow Shot, it does too much for it's cost. "but but it already saw a nerf by increased initiative cost" dont care, it's still busted. It does great damage and its unblockable blind lasts way too long, reduce the blind duration to max 2 seconds and maybe shave some damage.As a thief main I never really had to suffer being bullied by shadow arts thieves that much since I am one myself, but latley when trying to get back into other classes it's really noticeable how cancer it is to fight something that can stealth as much as it wants and keep you perma blinded while bursting you down. You either can't target the thief, or if you can, you are now blinded and your counters will miss. ANET, get rid of this silly kitten already, bring back SD meta.

edit: on topic - if anyone claims that thieves are being treated "unfairly" or that they are underpowered in any way, seriously l2p. Thief is totally, insanely, omega, ridonkelusly over powered in PVP/WVW.

I agree with most of that, d/p has a quick answer to a lot of stuff and that fits perfectly into SA. It's a real thorn build that you can kind of let people kill themselves on you if you can stagger out stealth attacks and blinds. Unfortunately it's one of the better builds for group to group or fight to fight sustain so you don't have to bail and reset too much which is nice to have other places.

In WvW I keep going back to SD kind of out of necessity and CS feels better than SA generally but d/p and with SA has a lot of easy utility and secondary mods going off and it can be sneaky good in group fights.

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@Armen.1483 said:If we talk about PVE: Well don't get me wrong but first of all in places where boon thief works it is ridiculously OP if we talk about raids. Nothing is as strong as a boon thief where it is playable. Ofc you can't use it on every boss fight tho, or that would be ridiculous. Meanwhile in qadim fights it is hard to imagine squads without thieves. Game literally foces you to play thief on pylons. So Thief got it's own niche. Other than that you have pure dps DD that does the 2nd best dps on golem (39k/s). Ofc same as 1st place dps (chrono) it depends on many things to pull off that sweet DPS in real fights. Drawback is that you got no cleave nor utilities when you play thief and it is has an extremely difficult rotation.WVW: lol, thief is the best roamer, nuff saidPVP: Learn to play. Thief controls maps and carries games, no nerfs can change that. Stop being stupid and 1v1ing scrappers and crying it is a class problem.Said it many times before by many ppl: THIEF IS FINE !!!

I play WvW and or PvP daily, with diferent classes.... and dude, a Thief hasnt killed me since the Big nerf, they're terribly weak

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@"Yasai.3549" said:

Okay. So, the next time you want to tackle the issues around stealth, deal with stealth and leave Initiative alone.
  • "Dagger/Pistol is so easy to pick up and use without skill". It's easy once you learn it like everything else. Regardless, deal with that weapon kit and leave Initiative alone if there's no reason to mess with it.
  • "Stealth spam promotes no counterplay because it removes the player from sight, and breaks targeting." Deal with those issues and leave Initiative alone.
  • "Gw2 is not a true free action combat game : many skills require targeting to take effect." what does that have to do with Initiative?
  • " Being able to break targeting and remove themselves from sight is a very powerful and easily abusable mechanic." It's annoying but not all that powerful. What does Initiative have to do with that?

You're trying to nerf everything except what you have issues with and trying to kill the signature thief mechanics that got people into the class to begin. I'd ask you to stop if I thought the devs cared about the thief forum.

But the Stealth spam is a byproduct of the ini system tho :/And as a result of that Stealth spam, other problems arise.And Ini system was also part of the reason for SB5 nerfs.

I don't know if devs actually care bout the entire Forums that isn't PvP and WvW tho.

The stealth spam is a byproduct of SA and D/P (and generally DrD) specifically.

Go play literally any x/D build without SA and tell me how potent initiative is. It's worse than most cooldown-gated professions' abilities by most metrics and why I absolutely obliterate pretty much every thief I stumble into on my reaper and ranger if they attempt to play aggressively. You can just totally overwhelm them if you force their initiative use and counterattack properly, or they'll just be forced to reset out and if you keep an eye on them, usually hit them back harder.

You've pointed out a specific kit being problematic correctly, but for all the wrong reasons.It's this rhetoric which is why the thief is so cornered into stealth and such unhealthy mechanics in the first place; the wrong things have been nerfed and reworked for eight years because people would rather talk about nerfing symptoms than actual causal problems. Thief's power fundamentally comes from being able to control fight spacing and timings via ranged and sustained stealth and a few select set of skills limited to little more than Shadow Shot and Dash these days.

The general mantra of thief play today is now entirely "risk-aversion" because the spec just lacks the outright power to commit even when it deliberately builds away from its essential tools for survival based on non-committal engage/damage patterns, because ANet has yet to decouple thief's defensive play patterns from its offensive ones due to how engrained they are into the class's combat potential rather than any inherent class mechanism; except the outlier skills which have historically been OP like Shadow Shot (and honestly that's pretty much it these days), the initiative system isn't broken at all for an overwhelming majority of the thief's possible builds or individual skills themselves. And to be frank, these skills would still be strong independently of initiative even if given full cooldowns if placed on other classes' skillbars.

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I play since 2012, and Thief always looked complicated to me because how not forgiving it is and squishy. I recently burned my gold to purchase a new character slot (800 gems) +the ravensoul dagger skin (600gems) for my future thief, with all the ilusion in the world to master this class once for all!Now a few days after playing it I'm desolated and disapointed, economically broke and with a useless skin dagger.here are some of my realizations after my days of playing it, mainly PvP.-Its almost impossible to defeat a ranger, its the thief nemesis, I know every class has its counter but to the point that is impossible to win?-I've played condi thief, it has more survavility, and can defeat some newbies, but when facing somebody experienced the main problem is their condi cleanses are overpowered.-playing pure power thief , I only succeed with D/P. Rifle deadeye and s/d s/p are so inefficient.And in terms of dungeons open world I got similar DPS than a reaper smashing buttons, but with 1/3 his survability.

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@frareanselm.1925 said:I play since 2012, and Thief always looked complicated to me because how not forgiving it is and squishy. I recently burned my gold to purchase a new character slot (800 gems) +the ravensoul dagger skin (600gems) for my future thief, with all the ilusion in the world to master this class once for all!Now a few days after playing it I'm desolated and disapointed, economically broke and with a useless skin dagger.here are some of my realizations after my days of playing it, mainly PvP.-Its almost impossible to defeat a ranger, its the thief nemesis, I know every class has its counter but to the point that is impossible to win?-I've played condi thief, it has more survavility, and can defeat some newbies, but when facing somebody experienced the main problem is their condi cleanses are overpowered.-playing pure power thief , I only succeed with D/P. Rifle deadeye and s/d s/p are so inefficient.And in terms of dungeons open world I got similar DPS than a reaper smashing buttons, but with 1/3 his survability.

  • Its almost impossible to defeat a ranger, its the thief nemesis, I know every class has its counter but to the point that is impossible to win? <- actually guardians (and revs to extend) are bane of thieves. Rangers are killable unless they play bunker druid of some kind.
  • I've played condi thief, it has more survavility, <- condi teef is a joke. Don't play that. Condi cleansed is needed so much because meta was mostly about burning guards and necros so obviously people are going to be running a lot of condi cleanse.
  • playing pure power thief , I only succeed with D/P. Rifle deadeye and s/d s/p are so inefficient. <- d/p is versatile and, imo, only thing that keeps thief somehow viable in pvp. DE is managable but lacks versatility (imo) hence why it falls behind. S/d, s/p are dead because people cried for stealth nerfs but didn't enjoy evade based builds either. #NERFTEEF
  • And in terms of dungeons open world I got similar DPS than a reaper smashing buttons, but with 1/3 his survability. <- try to play a warrior, you will laugh your precious off how silly and easy it is.
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as a long time thief player since 2013 and has 8 year old thief character(oldest character), second most played class in pvp, with over 50% winrate and gets the highest rating with it.and as a multiclasser

thief's core mechanic and design is very cheese and boring to say the least, thief has always been my secondary try hard play, no matter what main i play at that moment, when i really need to try hard for ratings,why secondary, because it is not challenging to play thief.

no matter buffing stealth or evade build will end up have unfun spammy noob friendly braindead build and will be unfun to fight against and have very linear gameplay which will get boring real fast.

if evade build can kill people before spam up all the evades, there's basically 0 risk, even so you couldn't kill people before all the evade spammed you also have sword 2 return...only one who can kill u is rev or another thief..same concept for stealth..0 risk entering stealth only if enemy load up with reveal

thief skills are way too forgiving for the power build it has..

and then there's ranger who is second to thief with the cheese core mechanics, but thief exist who is the king of roamer in pvp so ranger's cheese only made them basically irrelevant in pvp...ranger is basically a mini deadeye

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@felix.2386 said:as a long time thief player since 2013 and has 8 year old thief character(oldest character), second most played class in pvp, with over 50% winrate and gets the highest rating with it.and as a multiclasser

thief's core mechanic and design is very cheese and boring to say the least, thief has always been my secondary try hard play, no matter what main i play at that moment, when i really need to try hard for ratings,why secondary, because it is not challenging to play thief.

no matter buffing stealth or evade build will end up have unfun spammy noob friendly braindead build and will be unfun to fight against and have very linear gameplay which will get boring real fast.

if evade build can kill people before spam up all the evades, there's basically 0 risk, even so you couldn't kill people before all the evade spammed you also have sword 2 return...only one who can kill u is rev or another thief..same concept for stealth..0 risk entering stealth only if enemy load up with reveal

thief skills are way too forgiving for the power build it has..

and then there's ranger who is second to thief with the cheese core mechanics, but thief exist who is the king of roamer in pvp so ranger's cheese only made them basically irrelevant in pvp...ranger is basically a mini deadeye

I present you a warrior main ^^

Honestly, what you described can be said about warrior lol. There is probably nothing more linear (and boring depending on taste) than core concept of a warrior - straight dish out and facetank damage. That is why warrior is also the most noob friendly class while any new players that picks a thief ends up here or in map chat asking for advice how not to get blown up in milliseconds and actually deal some kind of decent damage. Ah and that is why BS in raids called a jail - because barely anyone wants to play that boring crap.

My credibility? I will roll with your example: my warrior was my first character, it is even older than my thief.

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@felix.2386 said:as a long time thief player since 2013 and has 8 year old thief character(oldest character), second most played class in pvp, with over 50% winrate and gets the highest rating with it.and as a multiclasser

thief's core mechanic and design is very cheese and boring to say the least, thief has always been my secondary try hard play, no matter what main i play at that moment, when i really need to try hard for ratings,why secondary, because it is not challenging to play thief.

no matter buffing stealth or evade build will end up have unfun spammy noob friendly braindead build and will be unfun to fight against and have very linear gameplay which will get boring real fast.

if evade build can kill people before spam up all the evades, there's basically 0 risk, even so you couldn't kill people before all the evade spammed you also have sword 2 return...only one who can kill u is rev or another thief..same concept for stealth..0 risk entering stealth only if enemy load up with reveal

thief skills are way too forgiving for the power build it has..

and then there's ranger who is second to thief with the cheese core mechanics, but thief exist who is the king of roamer in pvp so ranger's cheese only made them basically irrelevant in pvp...ranger is basically a mini deadeye

^^^^lolz good thing u can tell any story u want on forums eh. Every post I've seen of urs is wooh is me warrior and nerf thief lol. Definitely sound like a true long time thief player.The class is spammy in nature ill give u that, whether its boring or not is subjective and I tend to have the same opinion as u but braindead and easy is a very telling thing to say, says a lot really and ill leave it at that.

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@frareanselm.1925 said:I play since 2012, and Thief always looked complicated to me because how not forgiving it is and squishy. I recently burned my gold to purchase a new character slot (800 gems) +the ravensoul dagger skin (600gems) for my future thief, with all the ilusion in the world to master this class once for all!Now a few days after playing it I'm desolated and disapointed, economically broke and with a useless skin dagger.here are some of my realizations after my days of playing it, mainly PvP.-Its almost impossible to defeat a ranger, its the thief nemesis, I know every class has its counter but to the point that is impossible to win?-I've played condi thief, it has more survavility, and can defeat some newbies, but when facing somebody experienced the main problem is their condi cleanses are overpowered.-playing pure power thief , I only succeed with D/P. Rifle deadeye and s/d s/p are so inefficient.And in terms of dungeons open world I got similar DPS than a reaper smashing buttons, but with 1/3 his survability.

The limited stat options in spvp and mostly defined roles might to hold you to at least a little of a rock-paper-scissors dynamic but I imagine you can feel things out along the way and stretch a little. I mostly play WvW with limited time and kind of aimlessly so this might not translate, but these were my thoughts reading your list, in no order.

  • You might take Sleight of Hand in most places for obvious reasons but I do better in WvW closing in on heavy shooters with Bewildering Ambush for Confusion then pressure with Control until they're dead or I can bounce.
  • Along with secondary mods like Lifesteal, what helps me the most are staggered or burst buffs, debuffs like a few Vuln sources, Boon steal, and other Control to keep them opened up.
  • Right now my DE build has Rifle on it and my core build has had S/D equipped for awhile. I like D/P and if I played SPvP I'd probably have to take it more to roll with my team, but I feel much more safe, mobile, and having better reach with those two over D/P plus I like CnD. (play Rifle like a Staff that shoots and only Kneel if you can do that naturally, I love Kneel but it can get you killed if you're not vibing with it) (make an easy to hit keybind for Action Camera toggle, some things with rifle like jumping over stuff gets a little weird but it becomes much more fluid with skills like Death's Retreat if you have a hard time with default)
  • Think about your sequence if you're rolling up with full Initiative and cooldowns to someone. You don't want the best portion of your burst to be wasted on a bunch of padding and flak, you want it to hit raw Health Bar if you can and that kind of has to happen quick, like a package you make to explode on someone or they'll size you up and mitigate then counter. You want them on the ground or panic running to their group or squad comp at least before they can mitigate deliberately so think about the order of everything in that burst that will roll out and feel free to bail or get ready to yolo counter if it's not working out and you see them toying with you.
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@kash.9213 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:I play since 2012, and Thief always looked complicated to me because how not forgiving it is and squishy. I recently burned my gold to purchase a new character slot (800 gems) +the ravensoul dagger skin (600gems) for my future thief, with all the ilusion in the world to master this class once for all!Now a few days after playing it I'm desolated and disapointed, economically broke and with a useless skin dagger.here are some of my realizations after my days of playing it, mainly PvP.-Its almost impossible to defeat a ranger, its the thief nemesis, I know every class has its counter but to the point that is impossible to win?-I've played condi thief, it has more survavility, and can defeat some newbies, but when facing somebody experienced the main problem is their condi cleanses are overpowered.-playing pure power thief , I only succeed with D/P. Rifle deadeye and s/d s/p are so inefficient.And in terms of dungeons open world I got similar DPS than a reaper smashing buttons, but with 1/3 his survability.

The limited stat options in spvp and mostly defined roles might to hold you to at least a little of a rock-paper-scissors dynamic but I imagine you can feel things out along the way and stretch a little. I mostly play WvW with limited time and kind of aimlessly so this might not translate, but these were my thoughts reading your list, in no order.
  • You might take Sleight of Hand in most places for obvious reasons but I do better in WvW closing in on heavy shooters with Bewildering Ambush for Confusion then pressure with Control until they're dead or I can bounce.
  • Along with secondary mods like Lifesteal, what helps me the most are staggered or burst buffs, debuffs like a few Vuln sources, Boon steal, and other Control to keep them opened up.
  • Right now my DE build has Rifle on it and my core build has had S/D equipped for awhile. I like D/P and if I played SPvP I'd probably have to take it more to roll with my team, but I feel much more safe, mobile, and having better reach with those two over D/P plus I like CnD. (play Rifle like a Staff that shoots and only Kneel if you can do that naturally, I love Kneel but it can get you killed if you're not vibing with it) (make an easy to hit keybind for Action Camera toggle, some things with rifle like jumping over stuff gets a little weird but it becomes much more fluid with skills like Death's Retreat if you have a hard time with default)
  • Think about your sequence if you're rolling up with full Initiative and cooldowns to someone. You don't want the best portion of your burst to be wasted on a bunch of padding and flak, you want it to hit raw Health Bar if you can and that kind of has to happen quick, like a package you make to explode on someone or they'll size you up and mitigate then counter. You want them on the ground or panic running to their group or squad comp at least before they can mitigate deliberately so think about the order of everything in that burst that will roll out and feel free to bail or get ready to yolo counter if it's not working out and you see them toying with you.

Id give a try to DE, but I feel I have nothing to do if the oponent is a class with lots of barrier, reflects or blocks like scrapper, scourge, guardian. How do you fight them?

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@frareanselm.1925 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:I play since 2012, and Thief always looked complicated to me because how not forgiving it is and squishy. I recently burned my gold to purchase a new character slot (800 gems) +the ravensoul dagger skin (600gems) for my future thief, with all the ilusion in the world to master this class once for all!Now a few days after playing it I'm desolated and disapointed, economically broke and with a useless skin dagger.here are some of my realizations after my days of playing it, mainly PvP.-Its almost impossible to defeat a ranger, its the thief nemesis, I know every class has its counter but to the point that is impossible to win?-I've played condi thief, it has more survavility, and can defeat some newbies, but when facing somebody experienced the main problem is their condi cleanses are overpowered.-playing pure power thief , I only succeed with D/P. Rifle deadeye and s/d s/p are so inefficient.And in terms of dungeons open world I got similar DPS than a reaper smashing buttons, but with 1/3 his survability.

The limited stat options in spvp and mostly defined roles might to hold you to at least a little of a rock-paper-scissors dynamic but I imagine you can feel things out along the way and stretch a little. I mostly play WvW with limited time and kind of aimlessly so this might not translate, but these were my thoughts reading your list, in no order.
  • You might take Sleight of Hand in most places for obvious reasons but I do better in WvW closing in on heavy shooters with Bewildering Ambush for Confusion then pressure with Control until they're dead or I can bounce.
  • Along with secondary mods like Lifesteal, what helps me the most are staggered or burst buffs, debuffs like a few Vuln sources, Boon steal, and other Control to keep them opened up.
  • Right now my DE build has Rifle on it and my core build has had S/D equipped for awhile. I like D/P and if I played SPvP I'd probably have to take it more to roll with my team, but I feel much more safe, mobile, and having better reach with those two over D/P plus I like CnD. (play Rifle like a Staff that shoots and only Kneel if you can do that naturally, I love Kneel but it can get you killed if you're not vibing with it) (make an easy to hit keybind for Action Camera toggle, some things with rifle like jumping over stuff gets a little weird but it becomes much more fluid with skills like Death's Retreat if you have a hard time with default)
  • Think about your sequence if you're rolling up with full Initiative and cooldowns to someone. You don't want the best portion of your burst to be wasted on a bunch of padding and flak, you want it to hit raw Health Bar if you can and that kind of has to happen quick, like a package you make to explode on someone or they'll size you up and mitigate then counter. You want them on the ground or panic running to their group or squad comp at least before they can mitigate deliberately so think about the order of everything in that burst that will roll out and feel free to bail or get ready to yolo counter if it's not working out and you see them toying with you.

Id give a try to DE, but I feel I have nothing to do if the oponent is a class with lots of barrier, reflects or blocks like scrapper, scourge, guardian. How do you fight them?

You're under in game time constraint in spvp, I'm not in WvW plus I'm playing kind of casually mostly covering people. I don't have to do anything except watch the map if I want so I can hang around until a boon drops or gets ripped and I can take dumb stuff like Scorpion Wire and Pitfall there and I can tether to my group or their squad more freely so I wont be under the same pressure or having to rotate points.

Right now I'm seeing a lot put into takedown bursts so I'm holding on to stuff like Pitfall to bite back with if one of mine goes down or if I feel the other side getting ready for a drive but sometimes I'll take Signet of Shadow for the Vuln burst instead after teasing out some defenses. I'm also mostly playing auto and Death's Retreat and holding everything until some stuff drops or they commit to something heavy and Mark for Confusion, throw some Control at them to push their skills, and fill up on Malice then finish with something if they're there. I'll sit on my Stolen skill until my mark goes into stealth or their body language weirds me out and then Basilik Venom them out of it. I mostly save Death's Judgement to top off a Health bar, I don't count it in my rotation if I have any. I've seen some videos of pvp DE taking Deadly Arts but CS feels better to me. Sorry if that's not too informative, and ya DE might just be out of place for where you're at until you've mastered a map with Death's Retreat to scale and climb.

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@"Dave.6819" said:I mean.. as a thief main for all these years since beta i already had to abandon pvp/wvw mode. I forced myself to become 100% a PvE player even tho i didn't even enjoy it. But i still loved the game. So.. i tried to focus on PvE. At first i thought "alright. daredevil. assassin type class. damage must be top notch since we're all about damage". And to an extent it was true but not anymore. Not anymore since an average condi FB or Holo can easily outdps you and still bring something to the table for your team. Alright so i forced myself to reroll Guard and forget my main (that didn't last long since i dont enjoy it at all.) All we've seen since like HoT are nerfs and nerfs and complete disregard of an amazing class from Anet balance team. K so.. lets give them that. Let em take PvP/WvW but can you atleast rework something in PvE? That it would either be a top DPS class in raids (cuz we cant do anythin else) or atleast bring something to the table support wise? Mesmer would be quite a good example. They rekt the class in pvp/wvw.. but atleast they got some support builds for PvE. So can you guys wake up and respect your classes and rework Thief? We all know you love your fave child guardian but it does not mean you should abandon other classes.

PS. for those that think Thief is OP and deserves further nerfs please just .. go to your main class forums and vent there.

It doesn't surprise me that much, cuz you can call it thief, assassin,blade-dancer the hell you want, but a-net seems to consider it more like an occasional dps+buffer.... Basically we are a bad version of the D&D clerics which can potentially do a lot of damage but not in a damage per second prospective... We are still more useful to buff real dps classes and stay at distance or just dodge and dodge and buff others while dealing some lesser damage to break bar... Whatever your point of you is, the matter stay the same...They was so much afraid to commit the same mistakes about OP stealth classes to get a totally opposite (which means as much as wrong) effect.I run only 1 char, deadeye, on 2 sets 1 full rampager and 1 full rabid... Whatever you are gonna plan the damage, there will always be classes having "vanilla skills" more effective than yours, good example is bleeding duration for Eng. or Burning duration on FB, comparing to a thief condi class, you have lost even before starting the deal. (And I am talking as a player who finished both expansion on shortbow, so I know what a real low damage per weapon looks like)

Have a nice Easter everyone.

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@frareanselm.1925 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:I play since 2012, and Thief always looked complicated to me because how not forgiving it is and squishy. I recently burned my gold to purchase a new character slot (800 gems) +the ravensoul dagger skin (600gems) for my future thief, with all the ilusion in the world to master this class once for all!Now a few days after playing it I'm desolated and disapointed, economically broke and with a useless skin dagger.here are some of my realizations after my days of playing it, mainly PvP.-Its almost impossible to defeat a ranger, its the thief nemesis, I know every class has its counter but to the point that is impossible to win?-I've played condi thief, it has more survavility, and can defeat some newbies, but when facing somebody experienced the main problem is their condi cleanses are overpowered.-playing pure power thief , I only succeed with D/P. Rifle deadeye and s/d s/p are so inefficient.And in terms of dungeons open world I got similar DPS than a reaper smashing buttons, but with 1/3 his survability.

The limited stat options in spvp and mostly defined roles might to hold you to at least a little of a rock-paper-scissors dynamic but I imagine you can feel things out along the way and stretch a little. I mostly play WvW with limited time and kind of aimlessly so this might not translate, but these were my thoughts reading your list, in no order.
  • You might take Sleight of Hand in most places for obvious reasons but I do better in WvW closing in on heavy shooters with Bewildering Ambush for Confusion then pressure with Control until they're dead or I can bounce.
  • Along with secondary mods like Lifesteal, what helps me the most are staggered or burst buffs, debuffs like a few Vuln sources, Boon steal, and other Control to keep them opened up.
  • Right now my DE build has Rifle on it and my core build has had S/D equipped for awhile. I like D/P and if I played SPvP I'd probably have to take it more to roll with my team, but I feel much more safe, mobile, and having better reach with those two over D/P plus I like CnD. (play Rifle like a Staff that shoots and only Kneel if you can do that naturally, I love Kneel but it can get you killed if you're not vibing with it) (make an easy to hit keybind for Action Camera toggle, some things with rifle like jumping over stuff gets a little weird but it becomes much more fluid with skills like Death's Retreat if you have a hard time with default)
  • Think about your sequence if you're rolling up with full Initiative and cooldowns to someone. You don't want the best portion of your burst to be wasted on a bunch of padding and flak, you want it to hit raw Health Bar if you can and that kind of has to happen quick, like a package you make to explode on someone or they'll size you up and mitigate then counter. You want them on the ground or panic running to their group or squad comp at least before they can mitigate deliberately so think about the order of everything in that burst that will roll out and feel free to bail or get ready to yolo counter if it's not working out and you see them toying with you.

Id give a try to DE, but I feel I have nothing to do if the oponent is a class with lots of barrier, reflects or blocks like scrapper, scourge, guardian. How do you fight them?

Simple. You don't. Just move on to another target.

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-Can perma stealth-Can't be countered - can just run away when don't want to fight-Counter Guards, Reapers, Everyone-not-full-aoe or reflect.-Literally EZ MODE class in PvP. Like in every MMO perma-stealth class. Most skilled thing in PvP is kite and knowing when to fight and when to run. Rogue-type characters ALWAYS can PICK fights.

Stop crying for buffs. It only can happen if then nerf your dodges and stealth by a lot.Can't wait to standard outcry about how this is hard class xD

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@Diarf.8265 said:-Can perma stealth-Can't be countered - can just run away when don't want to fight-Counter Guards, Reapers, Everyone-not-full-aoe or reflect.-Literally EZ MODE class in PvP. Like in every MMO perma-stealth class. Most skilled thing in PvP is kite and knowing when to fight and when to run. Rogue-type characters ALWAYS can PICK fights.

Stop crying for buffs. It only can happen if then nerf your dodges and stealth by a lot.Can't wait to standard outcry about how this is hard class xD

that's PvP/WvW. sure you see lots of thieves there and sure they give you a hard time if you don't know how to deal with them.

now try PvE. squads would rather have another DPS class join than have a thief (daredevil/deadeye) join the group if they had a choice -- in group/endgame content it's just so not ideal to bring a thief along when you can bring other better powerDPS so you barely see thieves outside of the openworld. thief is viable for instanced content but there's much better choices out there.

oh and thief doesnt have a meta condiDPS build in PvE which also somewhat reduces versatility when it comes to dealing with instanced content.

thief needs buffs in PvE and maybe some rework for PvP/WvW.

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@Astyrah.4015 said:

@Diarf.8265 said:-Can perma stealth-Can't be countered - can just run away when don't want to fight-Counter Guards, Reapers, Everyone-not-full-aoe or reflect.-Literally EZ MODE class in PvP. Like in every MMO perma-stealth class. Most skilled thing in PvP is kite and knowing when to fight and when to run. Rogue-type characters ALWAYS can PICK fights.

Stop crying for buffs. It only can happen if then nerf your dodges and stealth by a lot.Can't wait to standard outcry about how this is hard class xD

that's PvP/WvW. sure you see lots of thieves there and sure they give you a hard time if you don't know how to deal with them.

now try PvE. squads would rather have another DPS class join than have a thief (daredevil/deadeye) join the group if they had a choice -- in group/endgame content it's just so not ideal to bring a thief along when you can bring other better powerDPS so you barely see thieves outside of the openworld. thief is viable for instanced content but there's much better choices out there.

oh and thief doesnt have a meta condiDPS build in PvE which also somewhat reduces versatility when it comes to dealing with instanced content.

thief needs buffs in PvE and maybe some rework for PvP/WvW.

Oh in PvE that's 10000% true. I was saying that only about PvP as a thief. In PvE you're offmeta and even not worth bringing.And it's sad since evey class should be viable in end game content.They should even buff thief to the level of meta-dps. It's good to shift meta sometimes.

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