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Eventscaling and instant killing mobs


moony.5780

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@moony.5780 said:

@moony.5780 said:Does anyone else have issues with the currect events in central tyria? And also in some other events with monster waves.The difficult part in the event are not the monster, but the other player that kill the mobs in a blink of an eye. So its hard to get even a lil loot.

That's actually how PVE maps tend to work at "best" anything that puts a fight and isnt a boss players would complain its to hard, just like they did on HoT release, and dont forget Tyria core maps were from a diferent time, where classes werent overbuffed with new spec gimmicks.

In pve maps everything melts to some autos, its casual pve, it is ment to work that way.

i remember how much i suffered at gw2 launch. It was never easy for me. Also Orr back then was a big loot fest even outside events....Im not saying that core tyria should not be casual...but just 4 mobs for 6 player per wave is too little. A player alone can have an aoe with attacking 5 and stealing everything...and that steals also the fun.Today i ran around with 2 random bloody gw2 beginner...they usually enjoyed the big events with big waves more...also they loved it when i lured 7 monster around me, so they attack it while i heal myself...

That actually feels more mmo rpg feeling,than what we have atm, IMO game needs to be more team based, and not towards if u want a challange just run a naked toon and a sword in hot (but sword mut be underlvl and white rarity)

In terms of balance needs to be setted in the medium / normal, rather then "swpipe" with 111 1 to clear mobs, its as dull as 99% swipe games...

I remmember when i tryed to make a party with IRL people i know in POF expantion and HoT, it was actually so easy that most lost interest in the game after some while, i had to break fdrom the group and go back to WvW and they also started to play "single player online" due how dumb and easy game was, 3 out of 5 were new players and the 4th player was a returning player, we had to stop working as a group cause a human based team was breaking the fun and everything were dying way to fast just due damage output performance, they didnt even get that much downed since they were dodging stuff quite nice after learn the animations.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

@moony.5780 said:Does anyone else have issues with the currect events in central tyria? And also in some other events with monster waves.The difficult part in the event are not the monster, but the other player that kill the mobs in a blink of an eye. So its hard to get even a lil loot.

That's actually how PVE maps tend to work at "best" anything that puts a fight and isnt a boss players would complain its to hard, just like they did on HoT release, and dont forget Tyria core maps were from a diferent time, where classes werent overbuffed with new spec gimmicks.

In pve maps everything melts to some autos, its casual pve, it is ment to work that way.

i remember how much i suffered at gw2 launch. It was never easy for me. Also Orr back then was a big loot fest even outside events....Im not saying that core tyria should not be casual...but just 4 mobs for 6 player per wave is too little. A player alone can have an aoe with attacking 5 and stealing everything...and that steals also the fun.Today i ran around with 2 random bloody gw2 beginner...they usually enjoyed the big events with big waves more...also they loved it when i lured 7 monster around me, so they attack it while i heal myself...

That actually feels more mmo rpg feeling,than what we have atm, IMO game needs to be more team based, and not towards if u want a challange just run a naked toon and a sword in hot (but sword mut be underlvl and white rarity)

Hey, if the next expansion enforces "team work" then i will not buy it. As always, even the story should allow team play if people want, but forcing it is just dumb. Maybe some people will be compelled to shrug and try their best to make the most of it, but i know i won't. Why do people want to make others adopt their playstyle? Do your thing and leave me out of it.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:SNIPJust goes to show that there are different types of players with different skill levels and not every game can cater to each and every type and skill level. Perhaps GW2 isn't right for you and your friend since you find it so easy and are bored with it.

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@moony.5780 said:Does anyone else have issues with the currect events in central tyria? And also in some other events with monster waves.The difficult part in the event are not the monster, but the other player that kill the mobs in a blink of an eye. So its hard to get even a lil loot.

That's actually how PVE maps tend to work at "best" anything that puts a fight and isnt a boss players would complain its to hard, just like they did on HoT release, and dont forget Tyria core maps were from a diferent time, where classes werent overbuffed with new spec gimmicks.

In pve maps everything melts to some autos, its casual pve, it is ment to work that way.

i remember how much i suffered at gw2 launch. It was never easy for me. Also Orr back then was a big loot fest even outside events....Im not saying that core tyria should not be casual...but just 4 mobs for 6 player per wave is too little. A player alone can have an aoe with attacking 5 and stealing everything...and that steals also the fun.Today i ran around with 2 random bloody gw2 beginner...they usually enjoyed the big events with big waves more...also they loved it when i lured 7 monster around me, so they attack it while i heal myself...

That actually feels more mmo rpg feeling,than what we have atm, IMO game needs to be more team based, and not towards if u want a challange just run a naked toon and a sword in hot (but sword mut be underlvl and white rarity)

Hey, if the next expansion enforces "team work" then i will not buy it. As always, even the story should allow team play if people want, but forcing it is just dumb. Maybe some people will be compelled to
shrug
and try their best to make the most of it, but i know i won't. Why do people want to make others adopt their playstyle? Do your thing and leave me out of it.

Agreed. We had a thread not long ago advocating for forcing player to play together because the OP couldn't get people to play with him/her.
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So now back to the main isseue....the event scaling and killing monster instantly. I completly understand everyone have a different opinion, and its everyones right to play the game how she/he likes it :) (Therefor i would really like if this game had a game setting for difficulty, but thats actually another story, i will not talk about this here anymore)

I have a few questions (especially to these who think the current system is no problem at all, and/or want to have things as easy as it is right now (refering now to lvl 1-70 events)

  • Are you able to kill 1 normal monster alone? (lvl 1-70 areas) And how much time do you need?
  • Are you sometimes able to hit 5 monster at once with AOE? (if the monster are standing next to each other) Do the monster take more than 50% dmg from that 1 attack?
  • Are you very often in lvl 1-70 areas? And if yes, with ungeared lower lvl character or with geared lvl 80 character?
  • If you are in lower level areas, do you like making every event you see, or do u just run around where you want to be and only sometimes do events?
  • What are your expectations towards events in these areas?

Im running regulary low lvl areas and im helping complete new beginner to understand the game. So thats what i noticed for new player:

  • Some skills kill a monster instantly (but usually not the autoattack) (< 1s)
  • To kill a monster, it takes around 3-4 hits to kill it with autoattack ( = 1s - 2s)
  • AOE autoattacks sometimes need more time to kill 1 enemie, but u can kill 3-5 at once then ( > 3s)

If there are only new player (and not even low lvl vetrans) among the player then the difficulty lvl is at X3 (see down what i draw)In worst case (many people beeing afk, or running inside the area but not playing the event) then it can goes up to X4, which should only really rarely cause a problem, but still makeable with a challange (if someone is not familiar with the gameplay (walking with W, controlling camera, and such things)

If a healing and buffing vetran comes by with no dmg output, the event will become unfailable. Noone can die, noone drop health below 90%. Thats around X2. People get their loot as in X3, but its easier.

I often see a lot of lvl 80 characters in the events, and if there is one unaware of the problem and use any AOE skill, then all monster are killed even before lower lvl characters can get there. So thats X1 case.

You can only see this on a big screen:

----- 100% failing event chance for Lvl 80 zerker gearX5 (typical gameplay in PoF, LS, Orr..)----- 100% failing event chance for lower lvl character with gameplay experience
----- 100% failing event chance for lower lvl character with no gameplay experience at all (also not other games)

X1

So i think the events should be scaled better (or player more downgraded). Not to move X2,X3 and X4 because they r already in perfect position, but to move X1 above the 100% chance for no rewards

Some events are more difficult and some are easier. But thats perfectly fine, as long as everyone who was inside the event can get a reward,...or not?

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As an example i will answer these question for myself :)

  • Are you able to kill 1 normal monster alone? (lvl 1-70 areas) And how much time do you need?I can kill 1 normal monster in around 1 second

  • Are you sometimes able to hit 5 monster at once with AOE? (if the monster are standing next to each other) Do the monster take more than 50% dmg from that 1 attack?I can hit up to 20 enemies at once if i go full aoe. From my typical attacks usually 3-8 monster die instantly

  • Are you very often in lvl 1-70 areas? And if yes, with ungeared lower lvl character or with geared lvl 80 character?Im often in core tyria, because i think they r nicely designed. If i go there, i just go there as i am, with my real gear main character. If i see other player i switch my gear to not steal the kills from other player. Another reason why im there is that im playing builds, that are cant be played in lvl 80 maps. (Pure water elementalist)

  • If you are in lower level areas, do you like making every event you see, or do u just run around where you want to be and only sometimes do events?I run around where ever i like. But i love fighting more than 4 monster at once the best, so i always rush to an event if i see one.

  • What are your expectations towards events in these areas?They should be fun! I want to play with others and support them. I always play solo, so events are an oppertunity to come together and fight for the same goal. (And i like loot ... :D I love seeing numbers on the whole monster group)

So...if i play how i want and like, i will kill everything instantly and steal everything from others. So this gone be a clear X1 from myside. Only if i spend some time to gear myself better (or worse here :)) i can make it to X2.

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The problem seems to be that whilst the scaling is better for health and defence, due to the upper echelons of what a person can grind for the damage potential isn't scaled enough. This is what happens when you appeal to that kind of power creep by adding options via harder content—it alienates casual players who're on other content as any raider with good equipment can roll in and decimate the place.

I can see why this is a problem for ArenaNet. If they reduce the damage potential across the board then that means that the majority of players who aren't raiders will be far too underpowered in lower-level areas, probably even way more underpowered than when they initially went through that content. The only thing I can think is that some sort of curved scaling for older content is needed—where higher potential merits a far greater reduction of damage output to create a more level playing field. So the more damage you can put out, the harder you get hit by the scaling. This may upset a small number of players but with the way things are now it's only going to alienate new players coming into the game and that's bad for the long-term survival of the game. This thread demonstrably shows this problem exists.

At this point I'm given to wonder sometimes if it would be healthier for the game to do something equivalent to what The Elder Scrolls Online did and scale-up, or effectively just make all players level 80 out of the gate. It would lose some money on boosts but it would also fix a lot of problems. It would also make it far simpler for ArenaNet to then introduce more playable races, which would further increase the appeal of the game considering that they could target other demographics.

I'm not sure what's reasonable for them to do to be honest but... the game has lasted this long, they're smart, I'm sure they'll figure something out.

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@moony.5780 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:How would Anet benefit from this proposed change?

Well as many before me already wrote: The current situation is frustrating for new player...So people who test the free version dont even buy the expansion.It is always good to be new player and beginner friendly.

More new player = more money

Where is your statistical evidence? What you have is anecdotal. Your friends as new players is not indicative of a problem that affects all new players. If you would be able to back up your claim with hard facts, I would be more inclined to listen.

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The current situation is only good for vetrans who have good gear and are familiar to the event system. So they see the monster faster, attack with AOE, and have super nice loot.With my chart before i tried to show how things could be balanced. The medium lvl is marked as very easy casual but fun gameplay, because they r starter areas. The lvl for Raids is even far above this chart.Beeing easy is good, but it have also some kind of saturation. If the fastest kill is 1 second, then haveing more dmg is still 1 second. But better would be at least 3 seconds, so that more player can react to it, and also attack. And honestly, 3 seconds with only autoattacking is not much at all. But thats during Coop-gameplay. I dont care if someone 1 shot a sleeping drake :) But stealing kills from other player is kinda bad.

This game is a coop game....the nice thing is, you can play it solo, and if someone joins the fun just gets better (but not more difficult!) But if during a coop thing (here the events) 1 player is able to dominate everything and steal everything from many other player, this just ruins the whole event!

If im wrong with my assumption, feel free to correct me :) i want to make this game better by discussing and not just force others my oppinion. I write really huge Comments sometimes and i fear people dont read everything and maybe misunderstand :( But as with every good discussion my opinion changes bcs i learn from you guys :3

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:How would Anet benefit from this proposed change?

Well as many before me already wrote: The current situation is frustrating for new player...So people who test the free version dont even buy the expansion.It is always good to be new player and beginner friendly.

More new player = more money

Where is your statistical evidence? What you have is anecdotal. Your friends as new players is not indicative of a problem that affects all new players. If you would be able to back up your claim with hard facts, I would be more inclined to listen.

Im really sorry, i have a job and i only play this game for fun. I can only tell you what i notice myself. Thats why at the beginning of this conversation i asked others how their experience is, or not? You didnt share your experience about someone stealing your kills...so maybe u tell me what u noticed? :)

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@moony.5780 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:How would Anet benefit from this proposed change?

Well as many before me already wrote: The current situation is frustrating for new player...So people who test the free version dont even buy the expansion.It is always good to be new player and beginner friendly.

More new player = more money

Where is your statistical evidence? What you have is anecdotal. Your friends as new players is not indicative of a problem that affects all new players. If you would be able to back up your claim with hard facts, I would be more inclined to listen.

Im really sorry, i have a job and i only play this game for fun. I can only tell you what i notice myself. Thats why at the beginning of this conversation i asked others how their experience is, or not? You didnt share your experience about someone stealing your kills...so maybe u tell me what u noticed? :)I don't have this issue. I don't see other players stealing my kills.
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@kharmin.7683 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:How would Anet benefit from this proposed change?

Well as many before me already wrote: The current situation is frustrating for new player...So people who test the free version dont even buy the expansion.It is always good to be new player and beginner friendly.

More new player = more money

Where is your statistical evidence? What you have is anecdotal. Your friends as new players is not indicative of a problem that affects all new players. If you would be able to back up your claim with hard facts, I would be more inclined to listen.

Im really sorry, i have a job and i only play this game for fun. I can only tell you what i notice myself. Thats why at the beginning of this conversation i asked others how their experience is, or not? You didnt share your experience about someone stealing your kills...so maybe u tell me what u noticed? :)I don't have this issue. I don't see other players stealing my kills.

Have you tried a new character after the release of PoF? Check and look for lvl 80 player. Especially in queensdale this problem is huge. Or maybe just go with ur main character to queensdale with your best build and best dmg/aoe. And go make the escort event https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escort_the_trading_post_caravan_to_ClaypoolThen you maybe will see the problem i see.

And again..as i said...i regulary take random new palyer (who i dont know, just someone who come from the tutorial with less then 40 AP) and i run together with them and explain the game. And usually at this event i have to say "pls dont 1 shot stuff". Some vetrans understand and even apologize. But some just ignore and even wait at the next spawn.

If you want, i can mail you ingame the name from someone who i met yesterday, and he tells you how he feels :)

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@kharmin.7683 said:I'm not saying that your idea/concept is without any merit.Then thanks for that ;) And also thanks for your comments :) The truth is always a mix of many views, so i really appreciate your effort in writeing comments.

@kharmin.7683 said:I just don't see convincing evidence that it is something that Anet would want or need to fix.

Unluckily i can only come up with the more player = more money reason. I think this really need to be investigated more..especially that my number are only based on my own experience. But that is not my job, I as a player can only report what I notice.So all i want is actually..that someone from Anet just check this. Is this really an issue? Am i and a few the only ones that have this problem? If yes, why do i see it everytime im in queensdale?

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@moony.5780 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:How would Anet benefit from this proposed change?

Well as many before me already wrote: The current situation is frustrating for new player...So people who test the free version dont even buy the expansion.It is always good to be new player and beginner friendly.

More new player = more money

Where is your statistical evidence? What you have is anecdotal. Your friends as new players is not indicative of a problem that affects all new players. If you would be able to back up your claim with hard facts, I would be more inclined to listen.

Im really sorry, i have a job and i only play this game for fun. I can only tell you what i notice myself. Thats why at the beginning of this conversation i asked others how their experience is, or not? You didnt share your experience about someone stealing your kills...so maybe u tell me what u noticed? :)I don't have this issue. I don't see other players stealing my kills.

Have you tried a new character after the release of PoF? Check and look for lvl 80 player. Especially in queensdale this problem is huge. Or maybe just go with ur main character to queensdale with your best build and best dmg/aoe. And go make the escort event
Then you maybe will see the problem i see.

And again..as i said...i regulary take random new palyer (who i dont know, just someone who come from the tutorial with less then 40 AP) and i run together with them and explain the game. And usually at this event i have to say "pls dont 1 shot stuff". Some vetrans understand and even apologize. But some just ignore and even wait at the next spawn.

If you want, i can mail you ingame the name from someone who i met yesterday, and he tells you how he feels :)

I have all of the characters that I want, so no, I haven't leveled anything lately.

I do spend an inordinate amount of time in Queensdale and Wayfarer Foothills, though, helping out new players or low-level characters. I don't often see the problem that you mention (The caravan escort for example. Heck, I'm usually the one who starts the escort when I'm there. :) ) unless the zone is marked for daily events. That isn't to say that I haven't seen it happen -- just not to the extent that I believe that you have.

I wonder, though, if your proposal would have other, maybe adverse effects on players in those zones? There is a reason why Anet set up scaling in the way that they did, although I agree that they don't seem to have re-tuned scaling after the introduction of mounts. If I recall, Anet did tune down the mount dismounting skill in low zones, but that doesn't seem to help during daily events when several players dismount on mobs at the same time.

To me, this is more of a player responsibility than a developer change. Sadly, many players are selfish and don't care about anything more than their immediate needs. I feel it is that culture that needs to change; advocating for code changes may not be the right answer or even provide the result(s) that you would like. Anet could change the scaling, but players would find ways to continue to selfishly play the game.

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@kharmin.7683 said:unless the zone is marked for daily events. That isn't to say that I haven't seen it happen -- just not to the extent that I believe that you have.

Specifically, the daily event map makes this so wide spread you'll be lucky to get anything done without resorting to the same rushing in with mount to attack as quickly as possible at the expense of everyone else. It's enough for people to see one person mounts up, then everyone gets worried about missing out, and here we go again. It sucks.

@kharmin.7683 said:To me, this is more of a player responsibility than a developer change. Sadly, many players are selfish and don't care about anything more than their immediate needs. I feel it is that culture that needs to change; advocating for code changes may not be the right answer or even provide the result(s) that you would like.

Yeah, good luck with that... For most people: stop being selfish = stop being human, or so it would seems from playing MMOs.

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@"Yggranya.5201" said:

kharmin.7683" said:To me, this is more of a player responsibility than a developer change. Sadly, many players are selfish and don't care about anything more than their immediate needs. I feel it is that culture that needs to change; advocating for code changes may not be the right answer or even provide the result(s) that you would like.

Yeah, good luck with that... For most people: stop being selfish = stop being human, or so it would seems from playing MMOs.I agree which is why I don't believe that the proposal will solve anything.

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@Yggranya.5201 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:unless the zone is marked for daily events. That isn't to say that I haven't seen it happen -- just not to the extent that I believe that you have.

Specifically, the daily event map makes this so wide spread you'll be lucky to get anything done without resorting to the same rushing in with mount to attack as quickly as possible at the expense of everyone else. It's enough for people to see one person mounts up, then everyone gets worried about missing out, and here we go again. It sucks.

@kharmin.7683 said:To me, this is more of a player responsibility than a developer change. Sadly, many players are selfish and don't care about anything more than their immediate needs. I feel it is that culture that needs to change; advocating for code changes may not be the right answer or even provide the result(s) that you would like.

Yeah, good luck with that... For most people: stop being selfish = stop being human, or so it would seems from playing MMOs.

Excetly this is why i think it would be great if vetrans get more rewards while helping others or makeing less DMG. So if u have a volenteer debuff (so everyone choose freely) which provides a bit better loot, then more people would use it. Honestly, if GW2 would not give the option to let me play side by side with new player as it is now, and i still get my near normal drops, i would not play lower lvl areas so often + new player will sometimes be worried to ask me for help, bcs they think they waste my time.

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Granting more rewards for this behavior would only encourage it for the sake of said rewards. It might also create a chasm between new and veteran players.

I've seen a lot of players asking for help in starter zones with many other players answering questions or going to where the new player is to help with content. The bandit hero point in Queensdale comes to mind as a specific example.

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@moony.5780 said:Well, the rewards are only for beeing nice to others ;) so making far less dmg on events, if there r others

Today is queensdale daily..and its a disaster x)

Why does it need rewards to be nice to others?And as I mentioned above, something like this would not lead to people being 'nicer' but simply that they would farm the sh* from the low lvl areas. Because that's how people are.

The players who at the moment already pay attention to their environment, help others ect. do not do that for rewards.

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@Fuchslein.8639 said:

@moony.5780 said:Well, the rewards are only for beeing nice to others ;) so making far less dmg on events, if there r others

Today is queensdale daily..and its a disaster x)

Why does it need rewards to be nice to others?Pls give me 1000 Gw2 player Names that use a weaker weapon everytime they enter a 1 shot zone. Do you think that less or more player will help if it gives more rewards?

@Fuchslein.8639 said:And as I mentioned above, something like this would not lead to people being 'nicer' but simply that they would farm the sh* from the low lvl areas. Because that's how people are.It should be balanced in a way that its not possible to abuse it. If they cant abuse because the system dont let them, then they just simply cant abuse. And even if its abused, but in a way, that it will actually help new player and they get also a lot of befifits from it..then i think it should be ok, or not?

@Fuchslein.8639 said:The players who at the moment already pay attention to their environment, help others ect. do not do that for rewards.I do ... :) Its low reward but still materials that i need

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@moony.5780 said:

@moony.5780 said:Well, the rewards are only for beeing nice to others ;) so making far less dmg on events, if there r others

Today is queensdale daily..and its a disaster x)

Why does it need rewards to be nice to others?Pls give me 1000 Gw2 player Names that use a weaker weapon everytime they enter a 1 shot zone. Do you think that less or more player will help if it gives more rewards?

@Fuchslein.8639 said:And as I mentioned above, something like this would not lead to people being 'nicer' but simply that they would farm the sh* from the low lvl areas. Because that's how people are.It should be balanced in a way that its not possible to abuse it. If they cant abuse because the system dont let them, then they just simply cant abuse. And even if its abused, but in a way, that it will actually help new player and they get also a lot of befifits from it..then i think it should be ok, or not?

@Fuchslein.8639 said:The players who at the moment already pay attention to their environment, help others ect. do not do that for rewards.I do ... :) Its low reward but still materials that i need

And how do you balance that in a way that it's fair but can't be exploited?

And what exactly do small players get advantages of it? That tons of veteran players clear the maps?

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@Fuchslein.8639 said:

@moony.5780 said:Well, the rewards are only for beeing nice to others ;) so making far less dmg on events, if there r others

Today is queensdale daily..and its a disaster x)

Why does it need rewards to be nice to others?Pls give me 1000 Gw2 player Names that use a weaker weapon everytime they enter a 1 shot zone. Do you think that less or more player will help if it gives more rewards?

@Fuchslein.8639 said:And as I mentioned above, something like this would not lead to people being 'nicer' but simply that they would farm the sh* from the low lvl areas. Because that's how people are.It should be balanced in a way that its not possible to abuse it. If they cant abuse because the system dont let them, then they just simply cant abuse. And even if its abused, but in a way, that it will actually help new player and they get also a lot of befifits from it..then i think it should be ok, or not?

@Fuchslein.8639 said:The players who at the moment already pay attention to their environment, help others ect. do not do that for rewards.I do ... :) Its low reward but still materials that i need

And how do you balance that in a way that it's fair but can't be exploited?Thats what developer should find out

@Fuchslein.8639 said:And what exactly do small players get advantages of it? That tons of veteran players clear the maps?When i played the game at release, i was happy for every other player i saw. Playing in events with others is nicer than running around all alone. It just should be balanced correctly..
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