Can we have back the second dodge on Power Mirage?

[Yoci.2481]

Well okay but they are not going to nerf 8 classes down to the level of Mesmer. So either we get a big boost or we stay bottom of the barrel forever.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

@Yoci.2481 said:Well okay but they are not going to nerf 8 classes down to the level of Mesmer. So either we get a big boost or we stay bottom of the barrel forever.

8 classes don't need to be nerfed.

What the games needs is healthy balance. Balance around skillful input by the player, not who can build the setup that sustains the longest by doing nothing. The game is just in an unhealthy state, and adding more unhealthy changes because other stuff is unhealthy is not the way to do it.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

@Yoci.2481 said:Well okay but they are not going to nerf 8 classes down to the level of Mesmer. So either we get a big boost or we stay bottom of the barrel forever.

8 classes don't need to be nerfed.

What the games needs is healthy balance. Balance around skillful input by the player, not who can build the setup that sustains the longest by doing nothing. The game is just in an unhealthy state, and adding more unhealthy changes because other stuff is unhealthy is not the way to do it.

what skillfull imput of the player is there in 1 dodge? you are forced to dodge first attack that comes your way or you are wasting endurance, its the opposite of skill-full.using dodge for mobility or damage is no longer low risk-low reward by low reward-huge riskthis opens up loads of stupid scenarios where you use dodge for mobility ooc and oh hey surprise you got attacked, better waste insane long cds as basic dodge lul

[Veprovina.4876]

Just stop trying to defend the removal of a freaking dodge, if this happened to a Firebrand or a Warrior because "ooh 5 seconds weapon switch cooldown is too OP - we need a trade off", Anet would be out of business by the next day how much abuse the cummunity would give them.

There is no valid reason to have 1 dodge when the entire game is based on everyone having 2. If they really thought this was a good idea they would have removed it in PvE too, but in PvE, mirage can still dodge twice. I wonder why...

[Sobx.1758]

@"Veprovina.4876" said:Just stop trying to defend the removal of a freaking dodge, if this happened to a Firebrand or a Warrior because "ooh 5 seconds weapon switch cooldown is too OP - we need a trade off", Anet would be out of business by the next day how much abuse the cummunity would give them.

It's almost as if that dodge is directly related to the espec mechanics and its problematic areas, but suddenly you're comming up with "taking away a dodge because of weapon swap cd", what are you even talking about right now? :D

There is no valid reason to have 1 dodge when the entire game is based on everyone having 2.

No, it's not, what is this random claim you came up with?

If they really thought this was a good idea they would have removed it in PvE too, but in PvE, mirage can still dodge twice. I wonder why...

PvE is not competitive, mobs don't care. So no, that's just another weirdly disconnected theory.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

@Yoci.2481 said:Well okay but they are not going to nerf 8 classes down to the level of Mesmer. So either we get a big boost or we stay bottom of the barrel forever.

8 classes don't need to be nerfed.

What the games needs is healthy balance. Balance around skillful input by the player, not who can build the setup that sustains the longest by doing nothing. The game is just in an unhealthy state, and adding more unhealthy changes because other stuff is unhealthy is not the way to do it.

what skillfull imput of the player is there in 1 dodge? you are forced to dodge first attack that comes your way or you are wasting endurance, its the opposite of skill-full.using dodge for mobility or damage is no longer low risk-low reward by low reward-huge riskthis opens up loads of stupid scenarios where you use dodge for mobility ooc and oh hey surprise you got attacked, better waste insane long cds as basic dodge lul

Skillfull impact is making use of blind on f2, interrupt on f3, blurred frenzy, blind on torch 4, block on scepter 2, axe 3 to dodge an attack, distortion on f4. It is really cool we get these interactions with our skills. These are skillful interactions, not 2 dodge IH cheese builds. I am someone who plays Mesmer 90% of the time. I would rather other classes be built around having to use skill than us getting mechanics that are unhealthy for the game.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

@"Yoci.2481" said:Well okay but they are not going to nerf 8 classes down to the level of Mesmer. So either we get a big boost or we stay bottom of the barrel forever.

8 classes don't need to be nerfed.

What the games needs is healthy balance. Balance around skillful input by the player, not who can build the setup that sustains the longest by doing nothing. The game is just in an unhealthy state, and adding more unhealthy changes because other stuff is unhealthy is not the way to do it.

what skillfull imput of the player is there in 1 dodge? you are forced to dodge first attack that comes your way or you are wasting endurance, its the opposite of skill-full.using dodge for mobility or damage is no longer low risk-low reward by low reward-huge riskthis opens up loads of stupid scenarios where you use dodge for mobility ooc and oh hey surprise you got attacked, better waste insane long cds as basic dodge lul

Skillfull impact is making use of blind on f2, interrupt on f3, blurred frenzy, blind on torch 4, block on scepter 2, axe 3 to dodge an attack, distortion on f4. It is really cool we get these interactions with our skills. These are skillful interactions, not 2 dodge IH cheese builds. I am someone who plays Mesmer 90% of the time. I would rather other classes be built around having to use skill than us getting mechanics that are unhealthy for the game.

you are mistaking 2 dodges for 2 IH dodges.Right now 1 dodge promotes spamming it off cooldown to dodge attacks, and filling the gaps with skills.As I said, with only 1 dodge, LOADS of endurance remains wasted, and if you try to " hold " onto the dodge for " right " things it gets wasted even more.Top it off with inability to resustain that mesmer has and you are forced to avoid any and all damage, and thus spam defensive cooldowns.Bad bad bad design.

[JazzXman.7018]

what leonidrex said and i will just add this copy pasta here:ih is not the problem for anything. the roots of the problems are in the condi ambush design (not being mainly utility based and ih also should be a pure utility trait what you can do by designing clone ambushes in that way). ih is quite the opposite, its even a good trait bc it add a lot more active and skillful combos and outplay moves (as long as ambushes are designed well/ correct) and with that adds way more skill requirement but also more incentive/ need to dodge offensive what balance out/ trade off/ limit the usage of the very strong defensive mc abilities (dodge while stun, covercasting). power ih mes proves that pretty well, thats why i understand even less that anet balance only cares for condi mirage while the mechanic for condi failed so hard that they had to butcher, contradict and dumb down the whole spec to make condi mirage not broken.

the long version of analysing and explaining mirage and general dodge mechanics can be found on my youtube channel (PvP Podcast interview) in case someone is interested and has that much free time muha :grin:

[Salt Mode.3780]

truth be told condi application just needs a nerf...and condi mirage will be less oppressive make clones ambush stack lower condis then the main ambush but ofc this might be too much work then to just remove 1 dodge...

[JazzXman.7018]

@Salt Mode.3780 said:truth be told condi application just needs a nerf...and condi mirage will be less oppressive make clones ambush stack lower condis then the main ambush but ofc this might be too much work then to just remove 1 dodge...

ironically anet never expressed any balance issue they see with the ih condi spam. they only expressed problems with mc itself. lucky both are linked to the same root problems (wrong ambush design on scepter/staff/axe), but it seems anet didnt understand that (just that they didnt understand that mirrors cant replace on demand, tactical usable and with that more skillful endurance dodges). in general it feels like the last dev with clue about mesmer left around 3 years ago or something. now we have ppl in charge need more than 1 year to get that shattermes needs instant shatters as basic design and finally gave ip back to chrono... and we most likely only got it back bc some pve ppl complained.

but the thing is, even when you lower condi dmg on clones and mesmers own ambush to zero you still have the problem that condimirage doesnt need to dodge offensive and with that has a way lower cd on the strong defensive mc abilities anet complains about than power mirage. and rly solving instead just covering this problem you only can do with reworking condi ambush design into something that creates the need and incentive to dodge offensive for skillful well timed combos and outplay moves with ambushes by offensive dodging. nerfing endurance reggen even more would be another way but you always have the problem that you will overlimit mirage general defensive uptime (2 dodge mirage got already otudodged by 6 other classes pre feb patch and those classes dont even need to dodge offensive for dmg or utility rewards by spec design) and esp the skillful tactical uses of ambushes by offensive dodging too much on power mirage during that. while also not adding any tactical usage and brainneed into ambush/ih gameplay for condimirage.

anet in the end did the worst but easiest: deleting one dodge and contradict and with that dumb down the general dodge management but also the whole spec without even solving any underlying problems with the condi ambushes/ condi ih mirage and the general lower cooldown on defensive mc uses on condimirage. big fat gg

[Salt Mode.3780]

well spvp i understand the need of offensively dodging and combo but in wvw its a difference case because of how sigil of cleansing works. in spvp it only clears 1 condi whereas wvw it clears 3. in spvp yes the condi spam can be seen an issue but in wvw because burn torment and confusions are in the priority of cleanse essentially first dodge is to bait out the weapon swap for sigil of cleanse to make sure the 2nd ambush condi sticks.and the reason why i mention wvw is because this nerf isnt exclusive to only spvp but it affects wvw as well.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@JazzXman.7018 said:

@Salt Mode.3780 said:truth be told condi application just needs a nerf...and condi mirage will be less oppressive make clones ambush stack lower condis then the main ambush but ofc this might be too much work then to just remove 1 dodge...

ironically anet never expressed any balance issue they see with the ih condi spam. they only expressed problems with mc itself. lucky both are linked to the same root problems (wrong ambush design on scepter/staff/axe), but it seems anet didnt understand that (just that they didnt understand that mirrors cant replace on demand, tactical usable and with that more skillful endurance dodges). in general it feels like the last dev with clue about mesmer left around 3 years ago or something. now we have ppl in charge need more than 1 year to get that shattermes needs instant shatters as basic design and finally gave ip back to chrono... and we most likely only got it back bc some pve ppl complained.

but the thing is, even when you lower condi dmg on clones and mesmers own ambush to zero you still have the problem that condimirage doesnt need to dodge offensive and with that has a way lower cd on the strong defensive mc abilities anet complains about than power mirage. and rly solving instead just covering this problem you only can do with reworking condi ambush design into something that creates the need and incentive to dodge offensive for skillful well timed combos and outplay moves with ambushes by offensive dodging. nerfing endurance reggen even more would be another way but you always have the problem that you will overlimit mirage general defensive uptime (2 dodge mirage got already otudodged by 6 other classes pre feb patch and those classes dont even need to dodge offensive for dmg or utility rewards by spec design) and esp the skillful tactical uses of ambushes by offensive dodging too much on power mirage during that. while also not adding any tactical usage and brainneed into ambush/ih gameplay for condimirage.

anet in the end did the worst but easiest: deleting one dodge and contradict and with that dumb down the general dodge management but also the whole spec without even solving any underlying problems with the condi ambushes/ condi ih mirage and the general lower cooldown on defensive mc uses on condimirage. big fat gg

dont forget that GS ambush is no better then axe/staff/scepter.It does the same shit the other do but also gives might/vulnerability, in fact right now power ambushes are much better then condi, both in damage AND utility.

[JazzXman.7018]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@JazzXman.7018 said:

@Salt Mode.3780 said:truth be told condi application just needs a nerf...and condi mirage will be less oppressive make clones ambush stack lower condis then the main ambush but ofc this might be too much work then to just remove 1 dodge...

ironically anet never expressed any balance issue they see with the ih condi spam. they only expressed problems with mc itself. lucky both are linked to the same root problems (wrong ambush design on scepter/staff/axe), but it seems anet didnt understand that (just that they didnt understand that mirrors cant replace on demand, tactical usable and with that more skillful endurance dodges). in general it feels like the last dev with clue about mesmer left around 3 years ago or something. now we have ppl in charge need more than 1 year to get that shattermes needs instant shatters as basic design and finally gave ip back to chrono... and we most likely only got it back bc some pve ppl complained.

but the thing is, even when you lower condi dmg on clones and mesmers own ambush to zero you still have the problem that condimirage doesnt need to dodge offensive and with that has a way lower cd on the strong defensive mc abilities anet complains about than power mirage. and rly solving instead just covering this problem you only can do with reworking condi ambush design into something that creates the need and incentive to dodge offensive for skillful well timed combos and outplay moves with ambushes by offensive dodging. nerfing endurance reggen even more would be another way but you always have the problem that you will overlimit mirage general defensive uptime (2 dodge mirage got already otudodged by 6 other classes pre feb patch and those classes dont even need to dodge offensive for dmg or utility rewards by spec design) and esp the skillful tactical uses of ambushes by offensive dodging too much on power mirage during that. while also not adding any tactical usage and brainneed into ambush/ih gameplay for condimirage.

anet in the end did the worst but easiest: deleting one dodge and contradict and with that dumb down the general dodge management but also the whole spec without even solving any underlying problems with the condi ambushes/ condi ih mirage and the general lower cooldown on defensive mc uses on condimirage. big fat gg

dont forget that GS ambush is no better then axe/staff/scepter.It does the same kitten the other do but also gives might/vulnerability, in fact right now power ambushes are much better then condi, both in damage AND utility.

actually no, that is exactly the difference ;) that gs ambush has a mainly utility purpose and that stacking short might and vuln duration randomly on defensive dodges (means when you are forced to dodge an attack) makes way less sense, you want to use your and your clone ambushes also on gs in preparation of a burst combo and with that in combination with your other shatter and weaponsskills, means by mostly offensive dodges (the direct dmg on mesmers own gs needs to be a bit lower when getting 2 dodges back tho, to prevent too rewarding dodge+1 spam gameplay and to make clear that the utility buff is the main purpose of the ambushes here). while condi ambushes have no utility effect worth dodging offensive for, also they dont enable tactical or skillful combos/ outplay moves and so dont add brain-need for the mesmer, just dodging defensive and getting some free extra dmg you dont need to think about is all. so the main problem exactly is, that condi ambushes are only about dmg and nothing else. thats why nerfing condi ambush dmg for the mesmer and clones to 0 doesnt even solve the problems with the lower defensive mc cooldowns on condimirage. thats why condi ambushes need a mechanical rework and not just fine tuning by dmg adjustments. i rly thought i explained that well meeeh :(

[Leonidrex.5649]

@JazzXman.7018 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@JazzXman.7018 said:

@Salt Mode.3780 said:truth be told condi application just needs a nerf...and condi mirage will be less oppressive make clones ambush stack lower condis then the main ambush but ofc this might be too much work then to just remove 1 dodge...

ironically anet never expressed any balance issue they see with the ih condi spam. they only expressed problems with mc itself. lucky both are linked to the same root problems (wrong ambush design on scepter/staff/axe), but it seems anet didnt understand that (just that they didnt understand that mirrors cant replace on demand, tactical usable and with that more skillful endurance dodges). in general it feels like the last dev with clue about mesmer left around 3 years ago or something. now we have ppl in charge need more than 1 year to get that shattermes needs instant shatters as basic design and finally gave ip back to chrono... and we most likely only got it back bc some pve ppl complained.

but the thing is, even when you lower condi dmg on clones and mesmers own ambush to zero you still have the problem that condimirage doesnt need to dodge offensive and with that has a way lower cd on the strong defensive mc abilities anet complains about than power mirage. and rly solving instead just covering this problem you only can do with reworking condi ambush design into something that creates the need and incentive to dodge offensive for skillful well timed combos and outplay moves with ambushes by offensive dodging. nerfing endurance reggen even more would be another way but you always have the problem that you will overlimit mirage general defensive uptime (2 dodge mirage got already otudodged by 6 other classes pre feb patch and those classes dont even need to dodge offensive for dmg or utility rewards by spec design) and esp the skillful tactical uses of ambushes by offensive dodging too much on power mirage during that. while also not adding any tactical usage and brainneed into ambush/ih gameplay for condimirage.

anet in the end did the worst but easiest: deleting one dodge and contradict and with that dumb down the general dodge management but also the whole spec without even solving any underlying problems with the condi ambushes/ condi ih mirage and the general lower cooldown on defensive mc uses on condimirage. big fat gg

dont forget that GS ambush is no better then axe/staff/scepter.It does the same kitten the other do but also gives might/vulnerability, in fact right now power ambushes are much better then condi, both in damage AND utility.

actually no, that is exactly the difference ;) that gs ambush has a mainly utility purpose and that stacking short might and vuln duration randomly on defensive dodges (means when you are forced to dodge an attack) makes way less sense, you want to use your and your clone ambushes also on gs in preparation of a burst combo and with that in combination with your other shatter and weaponsskills, means by mostly offensive dodges (the direct dmg on mesmers own gs needs to be a bit lower when getting 2 dodges back tho, to prevent too rewarding dodge+1 spam gameplay and to make clear that the utility buff is the main purpose of the ambushes here). while condi ambushes have no utility effect worth dodging offensive for, also they dont enable tactical or skillful combos/ outplay moves and so dont add brain-need for the mesmer, just dodging defensive and getting some free extra dmg you dont need to think about is all. so the main problem exactly is, that condi ambushes are only about dmg and nothing else. thats why nerfing condi ambush dmg for the mesmer and clones to 0 doesnt even solve the problems with the lower defensive mc cooldowns on condimirage. thats why condi ambushes need a mechanical rework and not just fine tuning by dmg adjustments. i rly thought i explained that well meeeh :(

I disagree and let me explain why.1 staff/axe/scepter ambush does damage ONLY2 GS ambush does damage AND vuln AND might.IF the dmg from GS ambush is lower then staff/axe/scepter then yes, its more skill-full.But as it is right now, gs is the most damaging ambush off them all AND it gives might/vuln, making it better for both passive bullshit damage AND proper skill-expresive use. Only ambush that can rival it is axe ambush, but you know... that one has other issues.

[JazzXman.7018]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@JazzXman.7018 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@JazzXman.7018 said:

@Salt Mode.3780 said:truth be told condi application just needs a nerf...and condi mirage will be less oppressive make clones ambush stack lower condis then the main ambush but ofc this might be too much work then to just remove 1 dodge...

ironically anet never expressed any balance issue they see with the ih condi spam. they only expressed problems with mc itself. lucky both are linked to the same root problems (wrong ambush design on scepter/staff/axe), but it seems anet didnt understand that (just that they didnt understand that mirrors cant replace on demand, tactical usable and with that more skillful endurance dodges). in general it feels like the last dev with clue about mesmer left around 3 years ago or something. now we have ppl in charge need more than 1 year to get that shattermes needs instant shatters as basic design and finally gave ip back to chrono... and we most likely only got it back bc some pve ppl complained.

but the thing is, even when you lower condi dmg on clones and mesmers own ambush to zero you still have the problem that condimirage doesnt need to dodge offensive and with that has a way lower cd on the strong defensive mc abilities anet complains about than power mirage. and rly solving instead just covering this problem you only can do with reworking condi ambush design into something that creates the need and incentive to dodge offensive for skillful well timed combos and outplay moves with ambushes by offensive dodging. nerfing endurance reggen even more would be another way but you always have the problem that you will overlimit mirage general defensive uptime (2 dodge mirage got already otudodged by 6 other classes pre feb patch and those classes dont even need to dodge offensive for dmg or utility rewards by spec design) and esp the skillful tactical uses of ambushes by offensive dodging too much on power mirage during that. while also not adding any tactical usage and brainneed into ambush/ih gameplay for condimirage.

anet in the end did the worst but easiest: deleting one dodge and contradict and with that dumb down the general dodge management but also the whole spec without even solving any underlying problems with the condi ambushes/ condi ih mirage and the general lower cooldown on defensive mc uses on condimirage. big fat gg

dont forget that GS ambush is no better then axe/staff/scepter.It does the same kitten the other do but also gives might/vulnerability, in fact right now power ambushes are much better then condi, both in damage AND utility.

actually no, that is exactly the difference ;) that gs ambush has a mainly utility purpose and that stacking short might and vuln duration randomly on defensive dodges (means when you are forced to dodge an attack) makes way less sense, you want to use your and your clone ambushes also on gs in preparation of a burst combo and with that in combination with your other shatter and weaponsskills, means by mostly offensive dodges (the direct dmg on mesmers own gs needs to be a bit lower when getting 2 dodges back tho, to prevent too rewarding dodge+1 spam gameplay and to make clear that the utility buff is the main purpose of the ambushes here). while condi ambushes have no utility effect worth dodging offensive for, also they dont enable tactical or skillful combos/ outplay moves and so dont add brain-need for the mesmer, just dodging defensive and getting some free extra dmg you dont need to think about is all. so the main problem exactly is, that condi ambushes are only about dmg and nothing else. thats why nerfing condi ambush dmg for the mesmer and clones to 0 doesnt even solve the problems with the lower defensive mc cooldowns on condimirage. thats why condi ambushes need a mechanical rework and not just fine tuning by dmg adjustments. i rly thought i explained that well meeeh :(

I disagree and let me explain why.1 staff/axe/scepter ambush does damage ONLY2 GS ambush does damage AND vuln AND might.IF the dmg from GS ambush is lower then staff/axe/scepter then yes, its more skill-full.But as it is right now, gs is the most damaging ambush off them all AND it gives might/vuln, making it better for both passive kitten damage AND proper skill-expresive use. Only ambush that can rival it is axe ambush, but you know... that one has other issues.

as explained that is exactly the issue, that condi ambushes ONLY have dmg and with that dont create the need or incentive to dodge offensive. dmg number adjustments are just fine tuning while atm with current mechanical condi ambush design not even zero condi dmg on the ambushes would solve the problems anet has with the too low cooldown on defensive mc uses. you look on it from the wrong side ;) its not about the overall power lvl of ambushes its about the mechanical design that adds need/ incentive to dodge offensive and skill requirement in terms of tactical outplays and combo-need with other shatter and weapons skills by having a mainly utility reward on ambushes. with ONLY dmg ambushes the weapons have none of that.

another point: on gs the mesmers own ambush not the ih clones ambushes does the big dmg part that is another difference why ih on condi is a problem while on power it even balance out defensive mc cooldowns even more by creating even more need/ incentive to dodge offensive by providing even more active outplay moves/ gameplay combos which require offensive dodges to be timed well depending of what the opponent is doing or when the mesmer or his team wants to burst a target (means offensive moves), the reason why i said ih needs to be a pure (or at least mainly) utility trait, ideal is nearly zero dmg on clones, that ofc also includes the insanely overperforming condi clone normal autoattacks compared to the dmg power clones do with normal autoattacks.

you talk about the simple power lvl of ambushes what completely misses the point and leads to the missunderstanding (that is exactly the main fallacy also anet does and leads to overnerfs in power lvl of condi ambushes or dodge resource what doesnt solve most of the problems)

[Yoci.2481]

When comparing these we have to keep in mind the difference between PvP and WvW. PvP is a bit more balanced. In WvW Mesmer has to deal with a lot of OP cute little kittens that just don't exist in PvP, while WvW Mesmer itself is pretty close to PvP Mesmer.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Yoci.2481" said:When comparing these we have to keep in mind the difference between PvP and WvW. PvP is a bit more balanced. In WvW Mesmer has to deal with a lot of OP cute little kittens that just don't exist in PvP, while WvW Mesmer itself is pretty close to PvP Mesmer.

yes, well when my full berserker sic em soulbeast crits people for 500 with max range long range shot, what hopes does mesmer have to deal dmg to those " people "bunch of bunkers throwing chip damage everywhere, mesmer doesnt deal with chip damage well, or bunkers for that matter. WvW just seems like a shit game-mode for mesmer

[Jables.4659]

@"whoknocks.4935" said:

So basically you kill greatsword power combo with this change, I don't like much.

Just a heads up, Anet made a change a good while back that drastically bridged the gap between 1, 2, and 3 clone Mind Wracks. Great-sword Mesmer is absolutely capable of sending people to the shadow realm with one or two clone shatter bursts.

I present exhibit A: Laggy Post Feb. 2020 footage (not sure what was up with Geforce Experience that day).

To be clear, I'm not in favor of Anet reducing Mirage's clone count. My vote still goes to removing IH altogether when restoring Mirage's dodge. There are plenty of workarounds that could preserve the PvE Cdps builds that are way outclassed by Cfb anyway.

[Salt Mode.3780]

IH is the reason why power mirage had sustain dmg rather then just full on burst instead of removing IH reduce the dmg modifiers on clones, the might stack, the vuln. For condi treatment reduce the condi stacks and duration that clones can apply.

[Axl.8924]

If the second dodge is problematic then they seriously need to redo those abilities that come with it then.

Also mirage cloak:What are you batman?

Also that one guy arguing that core don't matter only elites: That is a terrible terrible argument.

All the specs should be balanced. I seriously dislike the idea of punishing peeps who want to play core mes because chronomancer and mirage exist.

[Jables.4659]

@Salt Mode.3780 said:IH is the reason why power mirage had sustain dmg rather then just full on burst instead of removing IH reduce the dmg modifiers on clones, the might stack, the vuln. For condi treatment reduce the condi stacks and duration that clones can apply.

Why do you think Mesmer was still the number one target of nerf threads after Anet had basically drugged the profession in preparation for its Feb. 2020 neutering? For 6 years Mesmer behaved in a very specific way. There was never more than 4 targets on the field and clones walked forward and auto attacked at a slow rate. Things were manageable. Fast forward to just before the Feb. 2020 patch and we have the mirage with its three clones, phantasms are now separate so its not uncommon to have 6 enemies to sort through. The Mesmer no longer dodges with an animation, so that very obvious giveaway is gone. Mesmer now has straight up target cancelling abilities, and the clones are now leaping around the battlefield or using other flashy attacks. Its information overload. Obviously as I mentioned, IH isn't the only thing that lead to this insanity. Its just a very obvious way to reduce it while also ensuring that 2-dodge-condi-mirage doesn't dominate the spvp meta.

[Salt Mode.3780]

in spvp yea perhaps condi mirage is problematic but in wvw which is another forgotten pvp platform tht isnt the case.