Phantasmal Berserker (mainly PvP)

[Crossroads.5174]

Greetings!

For context, I find myself playing between platinum1 and platinum2, so I am not a mesmer god, don't roast me.Recently I have been playing power mesmer again for a change; as we all know, greatsword is a rather clunky weapon, so to speak, but honestly, what really bugs me is the 4th skill.Skill #3 is good, skill #5 is pretty good as well, skill #2 is tolerable in a +1 scenario, but the phantasm skill is really, really bad.Right now, between the swing animation, the pink swirling greatsword and the delayed, not controllable phantasm attack, this skill just feels like a time-gated two (provided you pick the trait) clones summoning and a dodge bait.In my opinion, a good start would be to change the animation back to the previous one (the same of Mirror heal cast), while obviously removing the illusionary greatsword throw (which, honestly, has a really weird feeling to it when cast, but maybe it's just me).If devs are concerned about the ability to cast skill #4 while stealthed, which I suppose is understandable in PvP, just make the animation reveal the mesmer, just like Death Judgment reveal the deadeye at the start of the cast.I know that there are also other problems, like quickness not affecting the phantasm, but still, I feel like this change would at least make the skill less upfront enough to actually land the berserkers, while still maintaining a fair, visible animation (its cast time could also be changed accordingly, if necessary).

What do you think?

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I still remember when Phantasmal Berserker was changed people though it was a buff because 300 damage increase of the throw. =)In reality it was, like you said, a nerf to prevent remaining in stealth while the phantasm was attacking.I agree with you.

That being said:All phantasms are trash, some of them were pretty awesome before the "buff".

[Veprovina.4876]

Every phantasm needs a fix, not just the berserker. It's tragic how buggy they are really...

[Zoser.7245]

Now that i'm playing other professions i also watch how bad phantasms are today when they are supposed to be our best and most determining skills. Or, at least, the most powerful. You can't count on them, they are unreliable in many scenarios and they are not determinative at all.

After many tests i even ended using one phantasm that, in theory, is not ideal for the build I use, but in practice it is much better than the one that is supposed to be the right one. After that it was very clear for me that they do not work as they should. And I am currently not happy with any of them. They are clearly improvable, both the skills themselves and some of the traits associated with them or that affect them.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Zoser.7245 said:Now that i'm playing other professions i also watch how bad phantasms are today when they are supposed to be our best and most determining skills. Or, at least, the most powerful. You can't count on them, they are unreliable in many scenarios and they are not determinative at all.

After many tests i even ended using one phantasm that, in theory, is not ideal for the build I use, but in practice it is much better than the one that is supposed to be the right one. After that it was very clear for me that they do not work as they should. And I am currently not happy with any of them. They are clearly improvable, both the skills themselves and some of the traits associated with them or that affect them.

The traits are fine in theory, the problems are the skills themselves. I mean, half the time, the phantasms don't even show up, especially on shield 4. They're impossible to summon in WvW, and if you do, they're useless because by the time the casting animation finishes, then some time for the phantasm to appear, then for the AI to kick in and do it's job, the person you're targeting is already dead and you did nothing but waste time.

So just in WvW, ALL of the phantamsms are useless. That's a lot of skills you're missing compared to literally any other class. And yes, sometimes they work 1v1 but you can't 100% be sure ever that they'll do what they're supposed to...

I think mesmer needs a serious overhaul.

Clones should be on a timer, and both phantasms and clones should be unlocked from the enemy player/mob so that if they didn't do their attack when you summoned them because of no target, they don't just disappear but wait for a new one to become available.

[K THEN.5162]

I actually really liked what they did with the animation change on GS 4 (shows off your gs skin a little bit more than the old animation)! The biggest issue I have with it is how long it takes for the phantasm to turn into a clone after its attack

[Yoci.2481]

Phantasms should be invulnerable, switch targets when their original target dies or uses a detarget and always turn into a clone quickly. They should never just despawn and do nothing.

Clones might need a small HP buff. Killing a clone that wants to shatter should trigger that shatter effect at the position of the dead clone as if the clone had successfully shattered. I think a trait that gives clones superspeed should be more accessable. With those changes in mind Protected Phantasms should give aegis to clones instead of phantasms, together with a few seconds of protection and and retaliation.

I think these changes would help shatter builds in blob fights.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Yoci.2481 said:Phantasms should be invulnerable, switch targets when their original target dies or uses a detarget and always turn into a clone quickly. They should never just despawn and do nothing.

Clones might need a small HP buff. Killing a clone that wants to shatter should trigger that shatter effect at the position of the dead clone as if the clone had successfully shattered. I think a trait that gives clones superspeed should be more accessable. With those changes in mind Protected Phantasms should give aegis to clones instead of phantasms, together with a few seconds of protection and and retaliation.

I think these changes would help shatter builds in blob fights.

A small HP buff on clones wouldn't do anything, no matter how much HP they have (unless they have quadruple what players have) will result in them being instantly killed by the AOE spam in WvW. They have no defense unlike players and any damage from AOE is going to be full on them. The only way to get around that is make them invulnerable and make them on a timer, like 30-45 seconds depending, so that you have enough time to generate them with even the lowest generation setup, but you're forced to shatter them eventually. They, and phatnasms shouldn't also die if your target dies, they need to be unbound for any of the mesmer's core mechanics to be consistent. Because again, in WvW (and PvE to an extent), players in blob fights (and PvE trash mobs) die so easily that you end up wasting most of your clones, even if they do survive the AOE spam in WvW. If you could summon them while targeting 1 person, then after that player dies, be able to direct them to another one for shattering, that would be a fully consistent mechanic on par with what other classes have.

No other class has to deal with their F skills or weapon/utility skills not having an effect or not working.

[phokus.8934]

I wish clones worked differently. Instead of floating around and getting killed, they queue up in your shatters. If you have 2 and then use a shatter, they spawn from the Mesmers location and go to the target.

I think we can all come up with a better mechanism but I’m not holding my breath that they will be changed globally. Maybe with an elite spec but not across the board.

[Justine.6351]

I think they are fine.Its illusions + shatters, not just another pet build.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Justine.6351 said:I think they are fine.Its illusions + shatters, not just another pet build.

You must not play a lot of WvW then. :tongue:

[Justine.6351]

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Justine.6351 said:I think they are fine.Its illusions + shatters, not just another pet build.

You must not play a lot of WvW then. :tongue:

That's all I play anymore. They run people over if you cc them first.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Justine.6351 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Justine.6351 said:I think they are fine.Its illusions + shatters, not just another pet build.

You must not play a lot of WvW then. :tongue:

That's all I play anymore. They run people over if you cc them first.

I was talking about big fights. It's impossible to summon them in big fights. They either don't get summoned because fo the pathing issues like Illusionary leap and phantasmal swordsman have, or they get summoned only to instantly die to damage. And since they have no armor, it's like hitting a rat mob, they die in 1 hit. There is no way for you to strategically use them or even rely on them. So in WvW blob fights - you're basically gimped compared to all classes since you can't use your profession mechanic. Self shatters still work but those are weak.

In roaming and 1v1 they work but still very unreliably.

[Justine.6351]

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Justine.6351 said:I think they are fine.Its illusions + shatters, not just another pet build.

You must not play a lot of WvW then. :tongue:

That's all I play anymore. They run people over if you cc them first.

I was talking about big fights. It's impossible to summon them in big fights. They either don't get summoned because fo the pathing issues like Illusionary leap and phantasmal swordsman have, or they get summoned only to instantly die to damage. And since they have no armor, it's like hitting a rat mob, they die in 1 hit. There is no way for you to strategically use them or even rely on them. So in WvW blob fights - you're basically kitten compared to all classes since you can't use your profession mechanic. Self shatters still work but those are weak.

In roaming and 1v1 they work but still very unreliably.

Don't cast them on the blob, cast them on the backliners freecasting.

[Yasai.3549]

Make Clones and Phantasms invul and untargetable first.

Then we talk.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Justine.6351 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Justine.6351 said:I think they are fine.Its illusions + shatters, not just another pet build.

You must not play a lot of WvW then. :tongue:

That's all I play anymore. They run people over if you cc them first.

I was talking about big fights. It's impossible to summon them in big fights. They either don't get summoned because fo the pathing issues like Illusionary leap and phantasmal swordsman have, or they get summoned only to instantly die to damage. And since they have no armor, it's like hitting a rat mob, they die in 1 hit. There is no way for you to strategically use them or even rely on them. So in WvW blob fights - you're basically kitten compared to all classes since you can't use your profession mechanic. Self shatters still work but those are weak.

In roaming and 1v1 they work but still very unreliably.

Don't cast them on the blob, cast them on the backliners freecasting.

I know how to "exploit" them to make them kind of behave, i don't cast them mid the spike, but i shouldn't be forced to exploit my profession mechanic and half my skills when everyone elses just works and works 100% of the time. And for that matter, i should be able to cast them mid blob, 3 clones and and a certain trait heals for a bunch plus strips boons, why is that even an option if i can't use it reliably? Right now i have to rely on Null field which is the only boonstripping skill that can be blocked and completely negated! All other profession boonstrips are unblockable!

I mean, i get what you're trying to say, but we shoudn't have to work around our profession mechanic, we should work with it. Everything else is wrong.Which brings me to my next point:

@Yasai.3549 said:Make Clones and Phantasms invul and untargetable first.

Then we talk.

This. I suggested this also in a few threads, and this is the only way to make clones and phantasms reliable. That and fix their AI, cast times, conversion times and pathing bugs. It's the only way Mesmer will ever be close to other professions, and it has so many problems that even that won't fix all of them, but it's a necessary start.

[Yoci.2481]

Imagine if Guardian skills just didn't go off and went on full cool down near an enemy blob.

[Justine.6351]

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Justine.6351 said:I think they are fine.Its illusions + shatters, not just another pet build.

You must not play a lot of WvW then. :tongue:

That's all I play anymore. They run people over if you cc them first.

I was talking about big fights. It's impossible to summon them in big fights. They either don't get summoned because fo the pathing issues like Illusionary leap and phantasmal swordsman have, or they get summoned only to instantly die to damage. And since they have no armor, it's like hitting a rat mob, they die in 1 hit. There is no way for you to strategically use them or even rely on them. So in WvW blob fights - you're basically kitten compared to all classes since you can't use your profession mechanic. Self shatters still work but those are weak.

In roaming and 1v1 they work but still very unreliably.

Don't cast them on the blob, cast them on the backliners freecasting.

I know how to "exploit" them to make them kind of behave, i don't cast them mid the spike, but i shouldn't be forced to exploit my profession mechanic and half my skills

when everyone elses just works and works 100% of the time

. And for that matter, i should be able to cast them mid blob, 3 clones and and a certain trait heals for a bunch plus strips boons, why is that even an option if i can't use it reliably? Right now i have to rely on Null field which is the only skill boonstripping skill that can be blocked and completely negated! All other profession boonstrips are unblockable!

I mean, i get what you're trying to say, but we shoudn't have to work around our profession mechanic, we should work with it. Everything else is wrong.Which brings me to my next point:

@Yasai.3549 said:Make Clones and Phantasms invul and untargetable first.

Then we talk.

This. I suggested this also in a few threads, and this is the only way to make clones and phantasms reliable. That and fix their AI, cast times, conversion times and pathing bugs. It's the only way Mesmer will ever be close to other professions, and it has so many problems that even that won't fix all of them, but it's a necessary start.

rofl ok,Apparently never used CoR or any of the renegade summons. But yes only mesmer has issues.

[Yasai.3549]

@Yoci.2481 said:Imagine if Guardian skills just didn't go off and went on full cool down near an enemy blob.

Renegade Summons and old Scrapper Gyros.

They phased Gyros out, only time will tell if they will do the same for Clones.

Summons should also get the invul treatment, but only if their effects are reduced because Darkrazor and Icerazor are troublesome if untouchable.

[Tseison.4659]

@Justine.6351 said:

rofl ok,Apparently never used CoR or any of the renegade summons.

But yes only mesmer has issues.

Our class has been nerfed and crippled the most than other professions out there so yes, Mesmers DO have a lot of issues that still have yet to be fixed...

I still don’t see why they haven’t given the class a complete or minor overhaul.

[Tseison.4659]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Yoci.2481 said:Imagine if Guardian skills just didn't go off and went on full cool down near an enemy blob.

Renegade Summons and old Scrapper Gyros.

They phased Gyros out, only time will tell if they will do the same for Clones.

Summons should also get the invul treatment, but only if their effects are reduced because Darkrazor and Icerazor are troublesome if untouchable.

I agree and I actually was thinking that IF they ever decided to abandon clones/phantasms all together or perhaps just tie them into utility skills. I think they should maybe perhaps looking into replacing them with some form of “Phantasmal Weapon attacks.”

So something along the lines of the original Guild Wars: Mesmer “Illusionary Weapon” and the Ritualists “Weapon Spells.”

[Veprovina.4876]

@Justine.6351 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Justine.6351 said:I think they are fine.Its illusions + shatters, not just another pet build.

You must not play a lot of WvW then. :tongue:

That's all I play anymore. They run people over if you cc them first.

I was talking about big fights. It's impossible to summon them in big fights. They either don't get summoned because fo the pathing issues like Illusionary leap and phantasmal swordsman have, or they get summoned only to instantly die to damage. And since they have no armor, it's like hitting a rat mob, they die in 1 hit. There is no way for you to strategically use them or even rely on them. So in WvW blob fights - you're basically kitten compared to all classes since you can't use your profession mechanic. Self shatters still work but those are weak.

In roaming and 1v1 they work but still very unreliably.

Don't cast them on the blob, cast them on the backliners freecasting.

I know how to "exploit" them to make them kind of behave, i don't cast them mid the spike, but i shouldn't be forced to exploit my profession mechanic and half my skills

when everyone elses just works and works 100% of the time

. And for that matter, i should be able to cast them mid blob, 3 clones and and a certain trait heals for a bunch plus strips boons, why is that even an option if i can't use it reliably? Right now i have to rely on Null field which is the only skill boonstripping skill that can be blocked and completely negated! All other profession boonstrips are unblockable!

I mean, i get what you're trying to say, but we shoudn't have to work around our profession mechanic, we should work with it. Everything else is wrong.Which brings me to my next point:

@Yasai.3549 said:Make Clones and Phantasms invul and untargetable first.

Then we talk.

This. I suggested this also in a few threads, and this is the only way to make clones and phantasms reliable. That and fix their AI, cast times, conversion times and pathing bugs. It's the only way Mesmer will ever be close to other professions, and it has so many problems that even that won't fix all of them, but it's a necessary start.

rofl ok,Apparently never used CoR or any of the renegade summons. But yes only mesmer has issues.

Well then they should fix all of those too!

But i was talking mostly about profession mechanic. It's like, if you couldn't switch legends on Revenant or can't press F2 for the legend's ability. That's what the Mesmer is dealing with.

[Fueki.4753]

@Yasai.3549 said:Make Clones and Phantasms invul and untargetable first.

If clones become unkillable they will need to lose all their damage and condition application, so they can only be used as distractions and Shatter resources.

[Yasai.3549]

@Fueki.4753 said:

If clones become unkillable they will need to lose all their damage and condition application, so they can only be used as distractions and Shatter resources.

Condi is fine, if it is nerfed for duration, which is not too bad.The Daze from Mirage ambush definitely has to go.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Make Clones and Phantasms invul and untargetable first.

If clones become unkillable they will need to lose all their damage and condition application, so they can only be used as distractions and Shatter resources.

No need for that if they're on a timer. Like 30 seconds duration of clones. Then you can't abuse them for any condi or damage applications since you have to shatter them within the time frame.