Nerf herald, not dh

Yasai.3549 · January 21, 2021

@Axl.8924 said:My point is you guys seem to have a lot of everything seems pretty annoying to fight you rev players.
I predict a possible nerf in the future to cds of mobility

Yu may wanna quit pvp then, there are way more annoying things to fight than Revenants.

Axl.8924 · January 21, 2021

@Yasai.3549 said:
@Axl.8924 said:My point is you guys seem to have a lot of everything seems pretty annoying to fight you rev players.
I predict a possible nerf in the future to cds of mobility

Yu may wanna quit pvp then, there are way more annoying things to fight than Revenants.

i didn't say i wanted it nerfed just saying i predict a nerf to happen. Look at what happened to ele mobility nerfed, or for thieves their infiltrator arrow costing 8 ini and other nerfs happen repeatedly.

Math.5123 · January 21, 2021

@Yasai.3549 said:
@"Armen.1483" said:If you play rev, you should know that Dragon stance has no issues with energy whatsoever, and along with that broken heal skill it is indeed insanely strong. But I would still ask you which are the cons you are talking about ? I will add that I agree that some points that people brought before about 'no cooldowns" are not taking into consideration the energy part which is kinda wrong. BUT with legendary dragon stance spamming weapon skills which have low coolodwns and sometimes are very strong is still doable. I guess it is exactly the real problem: energy management in Glint is very forgiving and I don't know about any cons there. Not talking about the fact that Glint makes you play as a tank with a full glass cannon build, which is also very brokenly strong.

Oh boy

puts on rubber gloves

time to perform a surgery on this paragraph.

Kuma was addressing OP's claims of a 600 range no cooldown AoE CC, aka Jade Winds. (This is false because Jade Winds cost 50 Energy, essentially putting a ~6 second cooldown on not only itself, but any 30 Energy or higher skill on a 3 second cooldown while Energy refills)
Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier.
The whole Rev weaponskills have Low Cooldowns thing is a thing like, 3 years ago. Rev Weaponskills have actual long cooldowns now.The only Rev weapon which has "low cooldowns" is Mace 2 and Mace 3.Don't believe me? Go look it up on the Wiki.But just for benefit for those who are too lazy to open up a new tab : Sword 2 8s, Sword 3 15s, Sword 4 15s, Sword 5 18sIf anything, Rev's Sword/Sword cooldowns have been normalized, and actually puts Rev in a disadvantage from sharing the same resource pool as their Utilities.But maybe this is why Rev still has high burst damage, because they are sacrificing Energy for it.
Energy Management in Glint is "very forgiving" if yu look at it as if Herald camps Glint.Truth of the matter is if yu use all of Glint actives and are done with Sword Actives, yur basically sitting on a large Energy pool with nothing but Autos and Sword 2 to fill damage. Don't forget, Glint Facets have actual cooldowns like any other class, so what do they do? Swap to Shiro of course, and bam all yur skills have enormous Energy costs.

Oh boy now yu know all of our cons, but for the benefit of the slower players, lemme break down how to beat a Revenant, especially a Power Herald :

Heralds usually start Shiro in order to use Enchanted Blades and PT to facilitate their gap close and burst.This is the only part where yu can't really counter if yu are getting +1, so welp, suck it up, yu just got +1, do yu really expect to see it coming?
If a Herald uses a PT > Sword2/Sword 4 combo to jump anyone, they are left essentially dry for 2s there are alot of things yu can do within this 2s.A. counter by throwing a CC (WOOP DE DOO GUESS WHO AUTOMATICALLY COUNTERS A MELEE AGGRESSOR! DRUMROLL PLEASE : Dragon's Maw)B. retaliate with a burstC. LoS the Rev and try to escape
So now yu survived a majority of the Herald's damage, and yu can start pressuring them because of their low Energy, but they swap to Glint, what do I do?Glint has 1 Stunbreak 2 Actives for damage, and 1 Emergency heal and 1 CC.Goal here is to pressure them into popping their Emergency heal.This is when yu burst with 2 bursts in yur Arsenal.If they use Sword 3, wait for first damage tick and dodge. Yu will negate 80% of the damage from the skill.If they use Sword 5, yu have 10 years to dodge the second hit just by running through their character model, cancelling the second hit. (this is called turning because they are facing their character forward, while their character is trying to turn to hit yu, causing the player to interrupt themselves)
Oh shid oh fug, the Rev is now in trouble, with about 50% health and no more Infuse Light (provided yur not filling their Health up like a noob).They are now in Shiro after expanding Glint and Infuse Light, which means they are in deep trouble due to not having a proper heal with Enchanted Blades, and only Staff left for defense. They are now on the defense.

This is when yu slap on pressure with auto attacks to force them to use Staff block and Staff 5 to negate their damage.

After they do this, they are basically dead.

This post is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen; let me explain why.

Some classes can't not fully heal a rev during IL. Take power guard as an example. The moment i drop a symbol, it's a sure full heal for the rev. This means, I either don't use my most damaging abilities (imagine playing rev without using sword 2 and 3) or I fully heal them once every 30 seconds.

This means i have to approach the mu one of two ways, I either try to kill them within the 30s window (where i still have to either dodge or pressure through/ out-trade Shiro heal) or slowly but surely whittle them down using autos or cancelable skills (see sword 3) to not fully heal them.In addition to having way higher consistent pressure, almost twice the basehealth (11k vs 18k) and I kid you not when i say half the mobility, unless we go speed runes retreat. They also have way superior sustain through blocks and evades.

But at least it's weak to condis, so that's nice.

@Crozame.4098 said:Lost an AT against prolly a stacked team and then complain on forum. There is a reason there are no shiro/herald prev in MATs for quite a while. If I remember correctly, even Obindo is forced to play crev in the MOTA. It still requires skill to play tbh, more than many other braidead classes that are still plauging the sPVP environment -- flamethrower, pewpew cthief, any class that abuse trapper rune, and some sort of ranger/druid/ that abuse the kitten kitten immo pet.

Imagine using a 7 month old tournament as an argument. That also banned specstacking.

Disney.7826 · January 21, 2021

@Arheundel.6451 said:
@Filip.7463 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:
@Filip.7463 said:
@Pati.2438 said:@Filip.7463 sure a herald that is glassy as hell is less balanced than a renedate doing 5k damage + on a heal amulet while being on a conditon e-spec xd

Herald glassy?

Herald is not a problem spec...it hasn't been for quite a long time after

the off hand sword dmg nerf

, what you're complaining about must be renegade running Jalis/shiro or Jalis/Mallyx for PvP....in WvW we have condi herald which still hasn't received nerfs like the PvP counterpart but.......overall both specs become an issue majorly when in company, they can be dealt with somehow on their own

Also you said that heralds are not the problem....did you notice how TOP teams run double renegade and not double herald?....There is a reason for that....

Im not gold, ik what im talking about. If i said herald, i mean herald not rene.Idc about wvw.

Main problem is infuse light - full hp back and not taking damage for seconds.

Also im not talking about 1v1 but teamfight and too fast +1 (tp through wall)

Not interested in your rank....

Smart revs will use IL as a semi-invulnerability during teamfights or to avoid certain death, all professions have that sort of skills, do realize that once a herald use IL and does that at the wrong time, it will have close to no defenses against a sudden condi/power burst ( save swapping to shiro and stunbreak/dodge)

Maybe this video will help you out...but I still suggest to make a rev yourself to learn main mechanics/CD...it's just 3 main builds to learn so it's not hard.

Don't take me wrong I make nerf threads too from time to time but I always target specific traits/skill doing more than they need to to do for their intended purpose, other than that I play all professions minus thieves and mesmers which I fought to death for hours, each time I log in...for the last 8 years so I memorized their CD/skill/animation by proxy.

There are things to tone down on rev atm like renegade and condi rev( few changes to wvw version) but power herald is pretty much where it should be, the difference between a good and bad rev is like night and day

Pls understand.... i can 1v1 any rev but if another 2 port through wall to me im dead. If there are 2-3 revs in team you cant have a single 1v1 fight. Herald has better healing skill, better burst, another stun.. thats why herald is bigger problem than renegade

ArthurDent.9538 · January 21, 2021

@Filip.7463 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:
@Filip.7463 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:
@Filip.7463 said:
@Pati.2438 said:@Filip.7463 sure a herald that is glassy as hell is less balanced than a renedate doing 5k damage + on a heal amulet while being on a conditon e-spec xd

Herald glassy?

Herald is not a problem spec...it hasn't been for quite a long time after

the off hand sword dmg nerf

, what you're complaining about must be renegade running Jalis/shiro or Jalis/Mallyx for PvP....in WvW we have condi herald which still hasn't received nerfs like the PvP counterpart but.......overall both specs become an issue majorly when in company, they can be dealt with somehow on their own

Also you said that heralds are not the problem....did you notice how TOP teams run double renegade and not double herald?....There is a reason for that....

Im not gold, ik what im talking about. If i said herald, i mean herald not rene.Idc about wvw.

Main problem is infuse light - full hp back and not taking damage for seconds.

Also im not talking about 1v1 but teamfight and too fast +1 (tp through wall)

Not interested in your rank....

Smart revs will use IL as a semi-invulnerability during teamfights or to avoid certain death, all professions have that sort of skills, do realize that once a herald use IL and does that at the wrong time, it will have close to no defenses against a sudden condi/power burst ( save swapping to shiro and stunbreak/dodge)

Maybe this video will help you out...but I still suggest to make a rev yourself to learn main mechanics/CD...it's just 3 main builds to learn so it's not hard.

Don't take me wrong I make nerf threads too from time to time but I always target specific traits/skill doing more than they need to to do for their intended purpose, other than that I play all professions minus thieves and mesmers which I fought to death for hours, each time I log in...for the last 8 years so I memorized their CD/skill/animation by proxy.

There are things to tone down on rev atm like renegade and condi rev( few changes to wvw version) but power herald is pretty much where it should be, the difference between a good and bad rev is like night and day

Pls understand.... i can 1v1 any rev but if another 2 port through wall to me im dead. If there are 2-3 revs in team you cant have a single 1v1 fight. Herald has better healing skill, better burst, another stun.. thats why herald is bigger problem than renegade

So in a balanced world how many heralds should be required to kill you? Because this comment seems to indicate you think it should take at least 4 with the element of surprise included.

Talos.9608 · January 21, 2021

Pls understand.... i can 1v1 any rev but if another 2 port through wall to me im dead. If there are 2-3 revs in team you cant have a single 1v1 fight. Herald has better healing skill, better burst, another stun.. thats why herald is bigger problem than renegade

So a build that is designed to be good at +1ing is doing good job at +1ing? And that is a problem? Also, a build that can benefit a lot from comunication(bc fast rotation) is also great at AT? But honestly, i would agree with infuse light nerf, 3 seconds is bit too long, it should be used skillfully, but it wouldnt make big difference, so whatever. But herald is far from being biggest menace in pvp right now, it is balanced. Also, heralds burst is hard to land/easier to play arround, and revenant as whole has attacks telegraphed from a mile. Before rev, you had thief doing his job, nerfing rev would make pvp dumb as brick, just faceroll bruisers.

Raiden The Beast.3016 · January 21, 2021

@Filip.7463 said:Ports through walls, stun with 600 radius (no cd btw), infuse light op in tramfights, great burst on sword, evade on staff, block on staff.Its not fun playing at vs 3 heralds.
Be honest, dh works only in gold.

Nerf hari & DH , BUFF Teef - makes the game more fun, we all know ?

Kuma.1503 · January 21, 2021

What cons does pherald have?

Little to no pressure from range
Very weak to conditions when IL is down
Most skills are heavily telegraphed.
Does not like boon corrupts (Spinal Shivers vs Heralds go brrr)
Only 1 stunbreak per legend swap.
Low to zero stability uptime.
Cannot customize utilities. What you see is what you get.
Mobility requires target.

Some other things to be aware of.

Herald does not run charged mists so only 50 energy per swap.

This means using Riposting shadows (40 energy) or Jade winds (50 energy) leaves them vulnerable. Got stunned just as you swapped into Shiro? Good luck with your ~10 energy while you wait on your legend swap to come off CD.

Enchanted daggers consumes charges even if evaded or blocked.
IL requires the herald to facetank damage to get value

Asuming a worst case scenario where you've got symbols on the ground and they have IL up. You can knock them out of your AoEs with Shield 5 or force them to dodge the KB during IL and lose value. As power DH you can use this opening to land chain. As GS guard, you can use this opening to land GS5.

Does any of this mean Herald is a weak class? Of course not.However, they have downsides just like any other class, and it would be disingenuous not to acknowledge them when discussing balance.

Megametzler.5729 · January 21, 2021

@"Yasai.3549" said:(...)
Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier.(...)

Just picking this one up:

It is instant.

The facet is not instant, but IL is. It can be activated during CC, any AoE, when any unstowable animation is running. Actually, if revenant does not get significant healing from this skill, the revenant deserve to stay in pleb tier.

Switch the cast time from the facet to IL and the skill is fine. Bringing it actually in line with Defiant Stance.

Downstate.4697 · January 21, 2021

Just dodge roll brah

Swagg.9236 · January 21, 2021

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:it is shiro not herald, also devastation traitline, herald and renegade just give it might for even larger bursts

It's not just Shiro when every Rev build runs the same weapons solely for the purpose of how they can attack and move with complete impunity on a PvE cooldown cycle. Every build has staff. If it's not staff with sword/X, then it's staff with shortbow. It's so easy to make a rev flub its attacks, but it's often difficult to punish it considering how it will just chain its damage/CC mitigation/scripted movement in a straight line away from danger and often survive.

RedAvenged.5217 · January 21, 2021

The tramfight s part got me

ArthurDent.9538 · January 21, 2021

@Megametzler.5729 said:
@"Yasai.3549" said:(...)
Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier.(...)

Just picking this one up:

It is instant.

The facet is

not

instant, but IL is. It can be activated during CC, any AoE, when any unstowable animation is running. Actually, if revenant does not get significant healing from this skill, the revenant deserve to stay in pleb tier.

Switch the cast time from the facet to IL and the skill is fine. Bringing it actually in line with Defiant Stance.

Yes, defiant stance that skill which despite having a few major advantages over infuse light has always been trash tier and never sees serious use, bring it in line with that. People are doing this all the time, a certain skill on one class that people actually use is similar to trash skill on another class that no one uses, and call for it to be nerfed down to the weaker skills level effectively deleting it. For instance all the people that compare various dps utilities to arcane blast/wave/power, those skills are trash currently, using them as a baseline for balancing dps utilities is dumb, balancing infuse light around defiant stance is dumb.

Megametzler.5729 · January 21, 2021

@ArthurDent.9538 said:
@Megametzler.5729 said:
@"Yasai.3549" said:(...)
Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier.(...)

Just picking this one up:

It is instant.

The facet is

not

instant, but IL is. It can be activated during CC, any AoE, when any unstowable animation is running. Actually, if revenant does not get significant healing from this skill, the revenant deserve to stay in pleb tier.

Switch the cast time from the facet to IL and the skill is fine. Bringing it actually in line with Defiant Stance.

Yes, defiant stance that skill which despite having a few major advantages over infuse light has always been trash tier and never sees serious use, bring it in line with that. People are doing this all the time, a certain skill on one class that people actually use is similar to trash skill on another class that no one uses, and call for it to be nerfed down to the weaker skills level effectively deleting it. For instance all the people that compare various dps utilities to arcane blast/wave/power, those skills are trash currently, using them as a baseline for balancing dps utilities is dumb, balancing infuse light around defiant stance is dumb.

Okay, well, if you compare it to arcane skills, give it a cast time of 3 seconds to make it equally worthless? :lol:

Or buff Defiant Stance, make it instand and see if it is actually trash tier. When arguments don't help, let's go back to random testing.

Yasai.3549 · January 21, 2021

@Megametzler.5729 said:
@ArthurDent.9538 said:
@Megametzler.5729 said:
@"Yasai.3549" said:(...)
Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier.(...)

Just picking this one up:

It is instant.

The facet is

not

instant, but IL is. It can be activated during CC, any AoE, when any unstowable animation is running. Actually, if revenant does not get significant healing from this skill, the revenant deserve to stay in pleb tier.

Switch the cast time from the facet to IL and the skill is fine. Bringing it actually in line with Defiant Stance.

Yes, defiant stance that skill which despite having a few major advantages over infuse light has always been trash tier and never sees serious use, bring it in line with that. People are doing this all the time, a certain skill on one class that people actually use is similar to trash skill on another class that no one uses, and call for it to be nerfed down to the weaker skills level effectively deleting it. For instance all the people that compare various dps utilities to arcane blast/wave/power, those skills are trash currently, using them as a baseline for balancing dps utilities is dumb, balancing infuse light around defiant stance is dumb.

Okay, well, if you compare it to arcane skills, give it a cast time of 3 seconds to make it equally worthless? :lol:

Or buff Defiant Stance, make it instand and see if it is actually trash tier. When arguments don't help, let's go back to random testing.

Why are yu guys fighting over a skill's instant cast feature like its all that matters when it comes to the Herald/Warrior healing off the skill?I've seen plenty of Teamfights where Warrior turns on Defiant Stance and GG heals all the incoming damage, but apparently that's not an issue?

Infuse Light isn't really an issue, it's probably the fact Herald itself has more healing baked into it than Warrior has with just Defiant Stance.

Honestly, just me but I'm gonna be A okay with Facet Heals removed and replaced with something else to help group support.I never liked the "Facet chugging for HP" trait at all.While it heals for little per Facet, it does add up over time in addition to Regens and Siphons.

Also, as I have mentioned earlier, Infuse Light, fine if people are so blind to just free damage it and cry about it in forums later, they should up the aura intensity.If yur so blind that yu can see someone with a blue shining aura and still dps it, it's really no one else's fault.

Megametzler.5729 · January 21, 2021

@Yasai.3549 said:
@Megametzler.5729 said:
@ArthurDent.9538 said:
@Megametzler.5729 said:
@Yasai.3549 said:(...)
Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier.(...)