Hammer on Guardian Poll - should it be left alone?

[Ogwom.7940]

This is a poll to just get a general idea of what other people in the community feel about hammer as a weapon on Guardian.Please provide feedback such as examples to support your position if you can.I made a discussion about this topic, but I feel a poll would be better for clarification on this subject, so I can physically see how others react to this weapon as well as give an explanation why.

[Yggranya.5201]

Guardian? How about warrior hammer? By the time you've used all CC abilities on a group of enemies, any other melee weapon would have killed them and the next group, maybe even more. Same for maces. In PvE, they have no purpose except to break the defiance bar. Good? I guess, but i would rather use them exclusively. Besides, warrior has more than enough CC utility. Not like the bar is high enough to require more than that since they are designed for groups, and the cooldown is so long on the bar that you'll have the skills ready again before it can be broken again.

[Linken.6345]

@Yggranya.5201 said:Guardian? How about warrior hammer? By the time you've used all CC abilities on a group of enemies, any other melee weapon would have killed them and the next group, maybe even more. Same for maces. In PvE, they have no purpose except to break the defiance bar. Good? I guess, but i would rather use them exclusively. Besides, warrior has more than enough CC utility. Not like the bar is high enough to require more than that since they are designed for groups, and the cooldown is so long on the bar that you'll have the skills ready again before it can be broken again.

You havent played fractal 100 cm I see.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I use it rarely. There are times where my hands hurt so much that I can't bring myself to bother mashing all of the skills. On those occasions where I just want to one-hand it, I equip Harriers and auto-attack everything to death with a specialized hammer build.

[Tzarakiel.7490]

While I do sometimes use hammer and might even find it useful I would not mind a few changes to make it possible to use as a main weapon and not just a backup/cc tool.

[aspirine.6852]

Hammer on guardian would be great if it was so damn slow. I mean who would get hit by hit? You have time to make a cup of tea before you have to dodge it.

[Cyninja.2954]

When most players say they want changes or improvements to a weapon, 99% of the time all they mean is damage.

Hammer on guardian has a lot of utility on it, at the expense of damage. Give in the damage area, and the utility might have to go.

Meanwhile I would prefer just some small changes to the auto chain. The 1.25s cast time of the 3rd swing is brutal and feels clunky especially after two 1/2s wings. Could use some testing as to what "feels" best, but going with my gut I would try something along the lines of:

1. Hammer Swing 1/2 cast time (1st in the chain)
2. Hammer Bash 3/4 cast time (2nd in the chain, cast time increased by 1/4s)
3. Symbol of Protection 1s cast time (3rd and final in chain, cast time down by 1/4s)

This would keep the overall duration of the chain similar but redistribute the cast times to a more even ramp up. Again this is just going with my gut, obviously this would have to be tested.

[Heizero.9183]

I dont think this poll will get the proper data with those types of polling options

For example, I DO agree that hammer is only useful in some situations and game modes, however, I always use it since I play in those situations and game modes very often.

Also, even though I use hammer very often and enjoy it I still think it could use SOME updating such as making ring of warding castable while moving and increasing the attack speed on the auto attack. I DO NOT want to see the skills fundamentally altered or the mechanics of the weapon changed though because I think it is excellent at what it does with its current functionality and for what I use it for: to lock down and deliver a big burst of damage to a target(s).

[Fueki.4753]

I want guardian hammer to be good or at least decent, but there simply is no way.I don't believe current Arenanet can turn it into a decent weapon.At least it's somewhat fun to play with.

Also, those poll options don't fit your question."Should it be left alone?" is a yes or no question.

[Ogwom.7940]

@"Fueki.4753" said:I want guardian hammer to be good or at least decent, but there simply is no way.I don't believe current Arenanet can turn it into a decent weapon.At least it's somewhat fun to play with.

Also, those poll options don't fit your question."Should it be left alone?" is a yes or no question.

You're right, I overlooked the title not being congruent with the poll options.If you were to pick one of the options, which would you choose?

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Fueki.4753" said:Also, those poll options don't fit your question."Should it be left alone?" is a yes or no question.

Absolutely! And my answer would be "yes" because the devs already proved that they can make things worse. Better be left alone than benefiting from the wrong kind of attention.

[Fueki.4753]

@Ogwom.7940 said:

@"Fueki.4753" said:I want guardian hammer to be good or at least decent, but there simply is no way.I don't believe current Arenanet can turn it into a decent weapon.At least it's somewhat fun to play with.

Also, those poll options don't fit your question."Should it be left alone?" is a

yes or no

question.

You're right, I overlooked the title not being congruent with the poll options.If you were to pick one of the options, which would you choose?

I chose the RP/Cosplay option, as it's the closest choice to me just sometimes bashing in heads in core Tyria for fun.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Heizero.9183 said:I dont think this poll will get the proper data with those types of polling options

For example, I DO agree that hammer is only useful in some situations and game modes, however, I always use it since I play in those situations and game modes very often.

Also, even though I use hammer very often and enjoy it I still think it could use SOME updating such as making ring of warding castable while moving and increasing the attack speed on the auto attack. I DO NOT want to see the skills fundamentally altered or the mechanics of the weapon changed though because I think it is excellent at what it does with its current functionality and for what I use it for: to lock down and deliver a big burst of damage to a target(s).

This is essentially my thought as well.

I don't pull out hammer that often, but when I do, I'm glad to have it. With the right trait setup, it means you can often just sit in melee and outheal incoming damage even while in a glass cannon setup, which means that in some situations where you don't have a dedicated healer, it can outperform weapons that theoretically have higher DPS, but which don't have hammer's capability to just sit there and shrug off incoming damage. If you're running around like a chook with its head cut off to stay alive, you're probably not getting a lot of DPS out of a sword, axe, or greatsword - sometimes, you're better off with a weapon that just lets you sit there and smack away.

I have seen it used to good effect in sPvP, although I think it got hit particularly hard by the Writ of Persistence nerfs and I don't think I've seen it used in sPvP since.

I could see an argument for QoL improvements, but I don't think I'd want to see a redesign of the weapon.

[Makion.3457]

I find hammer on guardian useful and fun in no situation and game mode. I never use this weapon. It sucks.

[Yggranya.5201]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:Guardian? How about warrior hammer? By the time you've used all CC abilities on a group of enemies, any other melee weapon would have killed them and the next group, maybe even more. Same for maces. In PvE, they have no purpose except to break the defiance bar. Good? I guess, but i would rather use them exclusively. Besides, warrior has more than enough CC utility. Not like the bar is high enough to require more than that since they are designed for groups, and the cooldown is so long on the bar that you'll have the skills ready again before it can be broken again.

You havent played fractal 100 cm I see.

Yes, i have not, and never will. Still, if it's good in one thing, that doesn't mean it's any better in the other, now does it?

[draxynnic.3719]

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:Guardian? How about warrior hammer? By the time you've used all CC abilities on a group of enemies, any other melee weapon would have killed them and the next group, maybe even more. Same for maces. In PvE, they have no purpose except to break the defiance bar. Good? I guess, but i would rather use them exclusively. Besides, warrior has more than enough CC utility. Not like the bar is high enough to require more than that since they are designed for groups, and the cooldown is so long on the bar that you'll have the skills ready again before it can be broken again.

You havent played fractal 100 cm I see.

Yes, i have not, and never will. Still, if it's good in one thing, that doesn't mean it's any better in the other, now does it?

Guardian has the second highest number of weapons after Warrior. It can afford to have one or two that have specialised uses rather than competing for the role of top glass cannon DPS.

[Brokensunday.4098]

The hammer as right bow is borderline usless it has a fews flaws.The simbol is tied to the auto attack in theory this should be the best but in reality the chain is super slow and most of the times you wont land the simbol or they will just walk away. If they merge the simbol on to ring of warding it would be alot better it would be a lock on defensive area or punishement are.Second the auto attack chain is too slow if the last hit was same of the rest or atleast one second it would be alot better, damage is okish.

Third banish..... no damage on a knockback (feb patch) even before that was mediocre, even if it has damage its a cc utilty that trows people away and on a guarian with practically 0 mobility it would be better if it was a kockdown so you can combo with simbols etc.These changes would make the weappon viable probably in all game modes.

As of right now i find the wep as a meme tier usefull in rare ocasions but see almost no play because of the way its design.Even on the radiant hammer build era the hammer was just used for its skill 2 that is super fine as right now

[Brokensunday.4098]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:Guardian? How about warrior hammer? By the time you've used all CC abilities on a group of enemies, any other melee weapon would have killed them and the next group, maybe even more. Same for maces. In PvE, they have no purpose except to break the defiance bar. Good? I guess, but i would rather use them exclusively. Besides, warrior has more than enough CC utility. Not like the bar is high enough to require more than that since they are designed for groups, and the cooldown is so long on the bar that you'll have the skills ready again before it can be broken again.

You havent played fractal 100 cm I see.

Yes, i have not, and never will. Still, if it's good in one thing, that doesn't mean it's any better in the other, now does it?

Guardian has the second highest number of weapons after Warrior. It can afford to have one or two that have specialised uses rather than competing for the role of top glass cannon DPS.

Staff is utility, shileld is utility, focus is combo damage and utility, mace is utility mostly, hammer is supposed to be damage and utily but is lacking the damage excluding the skill 2.Guarian need a change on gammer because even as an “utility” weappon as is right now is mostly useless outside of some super rare ocassions.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Brokensunday.4098 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:Guardian? How about warrior hammer? By the time you've used all CC abilities on a group of enemies, any other melee weapon would have killed them and the next group, maybe even more. Same for maces. In PvE, they have no purpose except to break the defiance bar. Good? I guess, but i would rather use them exclusively. Besides, warrior has more than enough CC utility. Not like the bar is high enough to require more than that since they are designed for groups, and the cooldown is so long on the bar that you'll have the skills ready again before it can be broken again.

You havent played fractal 100 cm I see.

Yes, i have not, and never will. Still, if it's good in one thing, that doesn't mean it's any better in the other, now does it?

Guardian has the second highest number of weapons after Warrior. It can afford to have one or two that have specialised uses rather than competing for the role of top glass cannon DPS.

Staff is utility, shileld is utility, focus is combo damage and utility, mace is utility mostly, hammer is supposed to be damage and utily but is lacking the damage excluding the skill 2.Guarian need a change on gammer because even as an “utility” weappon as is right now is mostly useless outside of some super rare ocassions.

Hammer is tanking and crowd control. With Writ of Persistence, you've got pretty much permanent protection and healing, which makes it very useful for situations when running sword, greatsword, or axe will mean you don't have the durability to remain in melee with whatever it is you're fighting.

[Cromx.3941]

Objectively its pretty bad. I tried to make this weapon work but I fail to see where the offset is for the dismal damage it does. It really only has two damage skills on it. The knockback is decent but for PVE dps that is more annoying than helpful. It has some utility I guess has PvP weapon. But if you ask me the greatsword has much more going for it. Better AA, better damage skills, and even a KD that pulls to you and not blasts away.

To begin with the third attack on the hammer should be at MOST a 1 second windup. That is really the heart of the matter.

[Cromx.3941]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Brokensunday.4098 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:Guardian? How about warrior hammer? By the time you've used all CC abilities on a group of enemies, any other melee weapon would have killed them and the next group, maybe even more. Same for maces. In PvE, they have no purpose except to break the defiance bar. Good? I guess, but i would rather use them exclusively. Besides, warrior has more than enough CC utility. Not like the bar is high enough to require more than that since they are designed for groups, and the cooldown is so long on the bar that you'll have the skills ready again before it can be broken again.

You havent played fractal 100 cm I see.

Yes, i have not, and never will. Still, if it's good in one thing, that doesn't mean it's any better in the other, now does it?

Guardian has the second highest number of weapons after Warrior. It can afford to have one or two that have specialised uses rather than competing for the role of top glass cannon DPS.

Staff is utility, shileld is utility, focus is combo damage and utility, mace is utility mostly, hammer is supposed to be damage and utily but is lacking the damage excluding the skill 2.Guarian need a change on gammer because even as an “utility” weappon as is right now is mostly useless outside of some super rare ocassions.

Hammer is tanking and crowd control. With Writ of Persistence, you've got pretty much permanent protection and healing, which makes it very useful for situations when running sword, greatsword, or axe will mean you don't have the durability to remain in melee with whatever it is you're fighting.

Problem is I can get protection from other sources, and the same for healing.

[Obtena.7952]

@Cromx.3941 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Brokensunday.4098 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:Guardian? How about warrior hammer? By the time you've used all CC abilities on a group of enemies, any other melee weapon would have killed them and the next group, maybe even more. Same for maces. In PvE, they have no purpose except to break the defiance bar. Good? I guess, but i would rather use them exclusively. Besides, warrior has more than enough CC utility. Not like the bar is high enough to require more than that since they are designed for groups, and the cooldown is so long on the bar that you'll have the skills ready again before it can be broken again.

You havent played fractal 100 cm I see.

Yes, i have not, and never will. Still, if it's good in one thing, that doesn't mean it's any better in the other, now does it?

Guardian has the second highest number of weapons after Warrior. It can afford to have one or two that have specialised uses rather than competing for the role of top glass cannon DPS.

Staff is utility, shileld is utility, focus is combo damage and utility, mace is utility mostly, hammer is supposed to be damage and utily but is lacking the damage excluding the skill 2.Guarian need a change on gammer because even as an “utility” weappon as is right now is mostly useless outside of some super rare ocassions.

Hammer is tanking and crowd control. With Writ of Persistence, you've got pretty much permanent protection and healing, which makes it very useful for situations when running sword, greatsword, or axe will mean you don't have the durability to remain in melee with whatever it is you're fighting.

Problem is I can get protection from other sources, and the same for healing.

That's not a problem though. There are MULTIPLE sources of EVERYTHING in this game. These things people labels are problems ... aren't.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Cromx.3941 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Brokensunday.4098 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:Guardian? How about warrior hammer? By the time you've used all CC abilities on a group of enemies, any other melee weapon would have killed them and the next group, maybe even more. Same for maces. In PvE, they have no purpose except to break the defiance bar. Good? I guess, but i would rather use them exclusively. Besides, warrior has more than enough CC utility. Not like the bar is high enough to require more than that since they are designed for groups, and the cooldown is so long on the bar that you'll have the skills ready again before it can be broken again.

You havent played fractal 100 cm I see.

Yes, i have not, and never will. Still, if it's good in one thing, that doesn't mean it's any better in the other, now does it?

Guardian has the second highest number of weapons after Warrior. It can afford to have one or two that have specialised uses rather than competing for the role of top glass cannon DPS.

Staff is utility, shileld is utility, focus is combo damage and utility, mace is utility mostly, hammer is supposed to be damage and utily but is lacking the damage excluding the skill 2.Guarian need a change on gammer because even as an “utility” weappon as is right now is mostly useless outside of some super rare ocassions.

Hammer is tanking and crowd control. With Writ of Persistence, you've got pretty much permanent protection and healing, which makes it very useful for situations when running sword, greatsword, or axe will mean you don't have the durability to remain in melee with whatever it is you're fighting.

Problem is I can get protection from other sources, and the same for healing.

There are other sources, sure, but hammer isn't THAT big of a DPS loss, so having it gives you the option to do other things with the rest of your loadout. It also gives you sustain that comes naturally as part of your DPS (which, incidentally, is very AoE-focused, which can be advantageous in situations where there are adds to deal with as well) rather than needing to interrupt your DPS for sustain options.

Could it stand to get a few buffs? Sure. But I think the profession as a whole will be worse off if it had its unique characteristics stripped out.

[Brokensunday.4098]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Brokensunday.4098 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:Guardian? How about warrior hammer? By the time you've used all CC abilities on a group of enemies, any other melee weapon would have killed them and the next group, maybe even more. Same for maces. In PvE, they have no purpose except to break the defiance bar. Good? I guess, but i would rather use them exclusively. Besides, warrior has more than enough CC utility. Not like the bar is high enough to require more than that since they are designed for groups, and the cooldown is so long on the bar that you'll have the skills ready again before it can be broken again.

You havent played fractal 100 cm I see.

Yes, i have not, and never will. Still, if it's good in one thing, that doesn't mean it's any better in the other, now does it?

Guardian has the second highest number of weapons after Warrior. It can afford to have one or two that have specialised uses rather than competing for the role of top glass cannon DPS.

Staff is utility, shileld is utility, focus is combo damage and utility, mace is utility mostly, hammer is supposed to be damage and utily but is lacking the damage excluding the skill 2.Guarian need a change on gammer because even as an “utility” weappon as is right now is mostly useless outside of some super rare ocassions.

Hammer is tanking and crowd control. With Writ of Persistence, you've got pretty much permanent protection and healing, which makes it very useful for situations when running sword, greatsword, or axe will mean you don't have the durability to remain in melee with whatever it is you're fighting.

In reality you will not tank nor heal much with hammer even runnin wop the chain is supper slow to practically use it, is even a dps loss just auto attaking with it, as a cc weappon banish is too predictible and the knockback weakens your dps more, ring of warding is decent but it lack damage inside the ring to force people of running out of it or making them waste their stab.On pve i can see how i can work as a tanking weappon but again guardian has sooo much more ways to do that and even better ways of doing it rendering the weappon useless, and on pvp is just not competitive you wont hit with autos and hammer 2 are supper predictibles. Extreme risk medium reward is the weappon as right now.

[Yggranya.5201]

@Brokensunday.4098 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Brokensunday.4098 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:Guardian? How about warrior hammer? By the time you've used all CC abilities on a group of enemies, any other melee weapon would have killed them and the next group, maybe even more. Same for maces. In PvE, they have no purpose except to break the defiance bar. Good? I guess, but i would rather use them exclusively. Besides, warrior has more than enough CC utility. Not like the bar is high enough to require more than that since they are designed for groups, and the cooldown is so long on the bar that you'll have the skills ready again before it can be broken again.

You havent played fractal 100 cm I see.

Yes, i have not, and never will. Still, if it's good in one thing, that doesn't mean it's any better in the other, now does it?

Guardian has the second highest number of weapons after Warrior. It can afford to have one or two that have specialised uses rather than competing for the role of top glass cannon DPS.

Staff is utility, shileld is utility, focus is combo damage and utility, mace is utility mostly, hammer is supposed to be damage and utily but is lacking the damage excluding the skill 2.Guarian need a change on gammer because even as an “utility” weappon as is right now is mostly useless outside of some super rare ocassions.

Hammer is tanking and crowd control. With Writ of Persistence, you've got pretty much permanent protection and healing, which makes it very useful for situations when running sword, greatsword, or axe will mean you don't have the durability to remain in melee with whatever it is you're fighting.

In reality you will not tank nor heal much with hammer even runnin kitten the chain is supper slow to practically use it, is even a dps loss just auto attaking with it, as a cc weappon banish is too predictible and the knockback weakens your dps more, ring of warding is decent but it lack damage inside the ring to force people of running out of it or making them waste their stab.On pve i can see how i can work as a tanking weappon but again guardian has sooo much more ways to do that and even better ways of doing it rendering the weappon useless, and on pvp is just not competitive you wont hit with autos and hammer 2 are supper predictibles. Extreme risk medium reward is the weappon as right now.

Yeah, wouldn't it be nice if the CC actually made sense? Like, why would i EVER want to launch/push an enemy away from my limited melee reach? So dumb.