WvW the Absolutely Broken Mess

Svarty.8019 · February 2, 2021

I've said over and over and over that handicaps are the way to go. Nobody ever listens, and yet everything gets worse. Coincidence?

Henry.5713 · February 2, 2021

WvW is basically the combination of multiple PvP modes in one. It includes roaming and ganking (both solo or in groups), small skirmishes, organized GvGs, Open Field guilds of different sizes fighting eachother, server blobs, sieging, defending and more. Where would you even begin to balance this mess? Not to mention that different builds shine at different places and different skill levels. And there is no pleasing everyone no matter what you do.

Let's say we try to go for a fully balanced WvW. Everyone has a different opinion on what needs to be changed, balanced or removed about WvW. So, which part of the community do we listen to? Do we listen to the solo roamer who wants more mobility after being chased down by blobs or do we listen to the blob players who can't do anything against roamers or gankers without outnumbering them?The mount was such a big controversy for this very reason. Half of the community felt like they aren't being heard, that the content they enjoy no longer has a place in WvW. A little overdramatic of course but they still had a point. ArenaNet needed change quite a few things about the mount to make sure it is even remotely balanced across all forms of WvW content. And people still continue to complain about the mount.

Galmac.4680 · February 2, 2021

For me it's just "permanent stealth" together with a portal. Who was that?

asterix.9614 · February 2, 2021

@"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:Now, imagine how broken must be next e-speces to even "compete" with current kitten.

Bwahaha, new condi that has a 50% chance to insta kill (1200 ranged ofc), new guard elite is now immortal, thie____ ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽▬▬ι═══════ﺤx_x

Nikola.3841 · February 2, 2021

50 vs 5 at 1 corner of spawn on EBG, no siege allowed at spawn, how do you win? Please elaborate..

Hard in any MMO out there. But, in tower/keep fights, easy in DAOC...even in open field. My best ever score was killing 96 with group of 8, in just few seconds. beauty of unrestricted AOE. Its fun because it makes cry people who want to win solely by sheer numbers...it either makes them quit, or learn to play, and both are good in a long run for a game

tippolit.3591 · February 2, 2021

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
@tippolit.3591 said:
@"yoni.7015" said:I enjoy WvW. if you don’t like it just don’t play it. It’s that simple.

Fact is, WvW is geared to the lowest common denominator relative to skill. Hence the totally out of control application of conditions . .. run around in a blob, drop a kitten load of them in a general direction without really targeting anything or anyone and hope for a kill. A chimp could be trained to do that kitten. Anyone who thinks different is really not being honest with themselves, or anyone else for that matter. That said, if you like it, fine. but try not being dismissive of those who find fault with it.

spoken like a true kitten who never ran in a solid group... people like you on their rangers are one big problem wvw has. you guys sadly have really no effect at all in a "Blob", bc u think everything happens automatically. then u die somewhere a billion miles from the tag on your ranger and /s "res pls", often even before the battle is done yet.

then again, people with that kinda believe are great bag providers.

Like I said, you are just kidding yourself and have no clue what you are talking about.

tippolit.3591 · February 2, 2021

@Svarty.8019 said:
@tippolit.3591 said:
@yoni.7015 said:I enjoy WvW. if you don’t like it just don’t play it. It’s that simple.

Fact is, WvW is geared to the lowest common denominator relative to skill.

Skill? IMHO that shouldn't be regarded as something positive in a game - it should surely appeal to a broader audience than just the elite? As such, skill shouldn't be seen as something to be lauded or rewarded. I think the Arenanet who made the game might have known this.

Skill shouldn't be lauded or rewarded?? I rest my case. Lolol.

Svarty.8019 · February 2, 2021

@tippolit.3591 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@tippolit.3591 said:
@yoni.7015 said:I enjoy WvW. if you don’t like it just don’t play it. It’s that simple.

Fact is, WvW is geared to the lowest common denominator relative to skill.

Skill? IMHO that shouldn't be regarded as something positive in a game - it should surely appeal to a broader audience than just the elite? As such, skill shouldn't be seen as something to be lauded or rewarded. I think the Arenanet who made the game might have known this.

Skill shouldn't be lauded or rewarded?? I rest my case. Lolol.

Absolutely it shouldn't. If you do this, you end up with one person having fun at the expense of many. That appeals to a minority = poor design values.

Ms Necronymph.1094 · February 2, 2021

Svarty nailed it!!! Only the newest players should have an uphanded advantage against vets and skilled players in a competitive mode because they need help. Even if the 200 people helping them along isn't help enough.... Bring back no downstate to revive wvw...

kamikharzeeh.8016 · February 3, 2021

skill is knowing what u klick when. it got "nerfed" by stripping a billion of dmg of everything but kitten roamerclasses.. but it's still fine. i can still drown a small pepeguild with my wells... we good.

yet, skill should be rewarding. it's absolutely annoying how many people think they can dodge the meta stuff and bring the most random of sh*ts to one of the most endgame formats that gw2 has... and then complain that they get rolled.

it's fundamentally wrong to think u can "chill hide afk farm" in a blob, if the enemy also has one. rather, with that kinda stuff + clouding in kinda situation, you basically help the enemy and kill your own people indirectly (examples: group stealthes and jumps of a wall towards enemy... kitten glides and reveals everyone or is mounted up and does the same stuff). also, if u dont actively fight u'll get less loot... this isn't openworld metas.

the "reward" kinda is to gain levels faster, and with increasing rank u gain more pips = reward track loot faster. (surely the system is a bit flawed, bc old player have a massive advantage from the EotM farm times. some very high ranks seem to come from metas very long ago. hard to imagine how fights even looked without revenants and firebrand and all other elite specs.

@asterix.9614 i mean, core guard even has immortality for a short time :bleep_bloop:

@"Henry.5713" also nailed it. exactly that... balancing chaos, what for? i'd say let's make it more chaos. fractal styled events happening (not 24/7... maybe 3 days a week, randomly 2 different effects) would make the whole mode more interesting again i feel.

the new e-specs will shake up everything nicely as well. will be both, scary and funny.

and hopefully we get a new map as well. a far bigger one would be nice with a more openworldish character. the closer part of queensdale for example would make a great map, if u just put gates into the fortresses (and broaden the walls surely).

plus, the "temporary solution" named "links" needs to be dropped sooner than later. so many people are currently really annoyed by Wvw. might be bc we play so much and therefore all the problem are even more visual than normally...

LordTemujin.5498 · March 1, 2021

nothing beats the enjoyment of destroying a larger force with 15 elites... WvW is pure adrenaline . Of course large scale blobs a pain in the ass tho... breaks the fun .

cobbah.3102 · March 2, 2021

Addendum to first post ANET fix your kitten game. End of Dragons is not on my list of purchases,

Helicity.3416 · March 2, 2021

@Svarty.8019 said:
@tippolit.3591 said:
@"yoni.7015" said:I enjoy WvW. if you don’t like it just don’t play it. It’s that simple.

Fact is, WvW is geared to the lowest common denominator relative to skill.

Skill? IMHO that shouldn't be regarded as something positive in a game - it should surely appeal to a broader audience than just the elite? As such, skill shouldn't be seen as something to be lauded or rewarded. I think the Arenanet who made the game might have known this.

fixed that for you

Aeolus.3615 · March 2, 2021

@asterix.9614 said:
@"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:Now, imagine how broken must be next e-speces to even "compete" with current kitten.

Bwahaha, new condi that has a 50% chance to insta kill (1200 ranged ofc), new guard elite is now immortal, thie____ ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽▬▬ι═══════ﺤx_x

Perma blue fire S/S guardian :) with unblocable burns played like a D/D elementalist but with more burn blinks and mobility :bleep_bloop:Theres actually a charr we players fought with this theme :P i assume will be next guard spec.

ugrakarma.9416 · March 2, 2021

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:
@"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:Now, imagine how broken must be next e-speces to even "compete" with current kitten.

The only thing I'm looking forward to with the new expac >:)

Very curious as to what they will pull, how op the specs will be and how some specs which underperform rn, will probably be blown out of the water forever (as a warrior main, I believe that Berserker may never have a place in the roaming meta. No matter how hard someone tries to build it, so if something equal or

better

than SPB appears, I'll know what that means).

the same old "in this patch we are looking to adapt the existing traits to be in line with new professions". last time i heard this, they changed for example the guardian staff #1, because after years they decided its is "overperforming".

Sobx.1758 · March 2, 2021

@Svarty.8019 said:
@tippolit.3591 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@tippolit.3591 said:
@"yoni.7015" said:I enjoy WvW. if you don’t like it just don’t play it. It’s that simple.

Fact is, WvW is geared to the lowest common denominator relative to skill.

Skill? IMHO that shouldn't be regarded as something positive in a game - it should surely appeal to a broader audience than just the elite? As such, skill shouldn't be seen as something to be lauded or rewarded. I think the Arenanet who made the game might have known this.

Skill shouldn't be lauded or rewarded?? I rest my case. Lolol.

Absolutely it shouldn't. If you do this, you end up with one person having fun at the expense of many. That appeals to a minority = poor design values.

If you don't want "skill" to be rewarding for the players, then switch the game to one that's fully/almost fully randomized. It's pretty funny to me, because literally even as a child I didn't like games like "war" (probably the most basic card game in existance?), where you have absolutely no influence on the outcome. It sounds like it's something you'd be interested in, because anything more than that would actually require you to show some kind of limited "skill" to win.I'm not saying you're wrong about liking games like that -to each their own. But if you don't want skill to influence the outcome then... pick the games accordingly instead of going for a fairly complex mmorpgs and then claiming that skill = bad design. Because no, it is not.

Blockhead Magee.3092 · March 3, 2021

The forgotten game mode of Anet will not be changing. Get over its glaring flaws in balance (player distribution and class skills), rewards and variety and it still fun to play. otherwise it just gets annoying and its time to step away.

Svarty.8019 · March 3, 2021

@Sobx.1758 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@tippolit.3591 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@tippolit.3591 said:
@"yoni.7015" said:I enjoy WvW. if you don’t like it just don’t play it. It’s that simple.

Fact is, WvW is geared to the lowest common denominator relative to skill.

Skill? IMHO that shouldn't be regarded as something positive in a game - it should surely appeal to a broader audience than just the elite? As such, skill shouldn't be seen as something to be lauded or rewarded. I think the Arenanet who made the game might have known this.

Skill shouldn't be lauded or rewarded?? I rest my case. Lolol.

Absolutely it shouldn't. If you do this, you end up with one person having fun at the expense of many. That appeals to a minority = poor design values.

If you don't want "skill" to be rewarding for the players, then switch the game to one that's fully/almost fully randomized. It's pretty funny to me, because literally even as a child I didn't like games like "war" (probably the most basic card game in existance?), where you have absolutely no influence on the outcome. It sounds like it's something you'd be interested in, because anything more than that would actually require you to show some kind of limited "skill" to win.I'm not saying you're wrong about liking games like that -to each their own. But if you don't want skill to influence the outcome then... pick the games accordingly instead of going for a fairly complex mmorpgs and then claiming that skill = bad design. Because no, it is not.

We can debate that all day and night. I can understand why anybody would defend the notion, but there's definitely a strong counter-case that many people are all too keen to dismiss out of hand.

Sobx.1758 · March 3, 2021

@Svarty.8019 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@tippolit.3591 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@tippolit.3591 said:
@"yoni.7015" said:I enjoy WvW. if you don’t like it just don’t play it. It’s that simple.

Fact is, WvW is geared to the lowest common denominator relative to skill.

Skill? IMHO that shouldn't be regarded as something positive in a game - it should surely appeal to a broader audience than just the elite? As such, skill shouldn't be seen as something to be lauded or rewarded. I think the Arenanet who made the game might have known this.

Skill shouldn't be lauded or rewarded?? I rest my case. Lolol.

Absolutely it shouldn't. If you do this, you end up with one person having fun at the expense of many. That appeals to a minority = poor design values.

If you don't want "skill" to be rewarding for the players, then switch the game to one that's fully/almost fully randomized. It's pretty funny to me, because literally even as a child I didn't like games like "war" (probably the most basic card game in existance?), where you have absolutely no influence on the outcome. It sounds like it's something you'd be interested in, because anything more than that would actually require you to show some kind of limited "skill" to win.I'm not saying you're wrong about liking games like that -to each their own. But if you don't want skill to influence the outcome then... pick the games accordingly instead of going for a fairly complex mmorpgs and then claiming that skill = bad design. Because no, it is not.

We can debate that all day and night. I can understand why anybody would defend the notion, but there's definitely a strong counter-case that many people are all too keen to dismiss out of hand.

"We can debate that all day and night, but instead I'll give you this non-answer and pretend I've answered".Ok.

If this post of yours had literally any point at all, I've missed it.

Noted.

Please allow me to rephrase.

I believe we're at the stage where we're just going to contradict one another.

I'm still as convinced as ever that a very high-skill system is poor design when aiming at as broad an audience as possible.

It seems that there is a pervasive atmosphere around the game that wants to dismiss this as a fiction without any consideration or debate.

Ok -from my understanding you weren't talking about "very high-skill system". You were talking about general idea of "skill rewarding the player = poor design". But if that's what you really think, then the only "poor" decision here seems to be the one you've made when you've picked up a fairly complex action mmorpg. If you expected anything else, you probably should pick a different genre of the game (or stayed in pve mode, which is more of a co-op than player vs player -meanwhile you pack yourself into competitive modes of a complex game and then complain that it's complex, which is unfair because better players are better).

Nobody needs to just "contradict one another", you've never bothered responding to what I said in the first place, which is pretty much: pick games (and their overal genre) according to your expectations. Don't want skill? Pick an "rng" game that's equivalent to flipping a coin (or the war game I've mentioned before) for the win. Anything that requires any kind of knowledge, reflex or skill will apparently be bad design for you, because it's pretty much a guaranteed case of some people being better than "majority". If action mmorpg doesn't reward some kind of "skill" then it's a failure and I'm not sure why you'd expect anything else.

Svarty.8019 · March 3, 2021

@Sobx.1758 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@tippolit.3591 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@tippolit.3591 said:
@"yoni.7015" said:I enjoy WvW. if you don’t like it just don’t play it. It’s that simple.