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Guild Siege Crafting (bit of a rant)


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@Svarty.8019 said:

If I'm to be frank

Well, Frank.What would be the point of superior siege if guild varieties were just as plentiful?

What's the point in vanilla siege now that superior siege is ubiquitous?

What's the point of common gear when pretty much nobody should be really using it regardless of character level anyways?Beacuse it's an option, it's there, you can use it for whatever reason, but you absolutely don't need to use it. In case you're using it, the mere fact that's "it there" is irrelevant to anyone, so what's the point of asking this question? Don't want/need to use it? Then don't. Someone might want to -who cares.

Those things aren't the same.

How are they not close enough in this comparison? They're in the game, there exist better versions of them and you pretty much don't need to use the weakest version at any point of the game. Just because you've linked "false equivalence" as a
cheap way out of answering
doesn't make it an actual false equivalence. The principle around existance of weakest version in both cases is pretty much the same. If you don't want to use them, then it's perfectly fine, but it's also irrelevant to those items existing in the game.

I admit it, I cheaped out on the answer and I also think
equivalence, but not as much as you're making out. The best gear doesn't get removed from the system when you use it, but guild siege does - although there is minor time-gating on the crafting side. It's just a messy analogy.

...so if the siege bprints get removed from the system per use, isn't there even more of a reason for lower versions to exist?

The time-gating/tedious nature of the queuing system is what the OP is unhappy about.I suspect they could

  • make the window bigger and add more slots, OR,
  • make it instantly add them to guild decoration storage - (like racetrack parts do? But they're bought from a vendor and aren't crafted - so the bottleneck is where?).

It might be tedious, but due to the existance of weaker versions you still have a choice to make. If the stronger version isn't worth price/time, then use the weaker ones. If it is, then... you know... pretty much deal with it. Right?

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I think Walmart siege would still have a use, and possibly rise in demand/cost if guild siege making was easier. Considering you need 3 Walmart to 1 guild siege, and Walmart siege can be bought with Badges of Tribute as well as getting it from reward tracks, I see it as actually being a good thing for the WvW economy. It'd be an indirect way of making the reward tracks more rewarding. Not to mention, it takes time to level up a guild to the point that you have the upgrades available to make guild siege. Smaller guilds and roamers would still benefit from Walmart and Superior siege if they can't easily obtain guild siege. Not to mention out on the borderlands (idk, say you're at one of the north towers as an attacker), you can just buy Walmart siege from the Portable Provisioner. That's good for people who might not have perms to pull guild siege from the panel as well as those who would lack access due to guild hall level limitations.

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  • 3 months later...

Scribe as seems to have been built with the high level objective of 'the guild' as a whole will contribute, create, manage the assembly device.  But in practice that is not how it works at all.  All practicing Scribes can confirm this.  


1.  Permissions for Scribes are clunky.  Fully practicing Scribes are typically high level guild members.  Because of the needed access to vaults, scribe station, and assembly device requirements.  This prevents rank-and-file members from fully participating.


2. Donations:  What a farce.  Contributions from rank-and-file guild members boarders on useless.  Since they are not the ones doing the scribing they have zero insight into what goes into making any of the final products.  Requests for items go out to the guild and some members do respond.  Typically high level committed guild members are the ones responding, but with quantities that boarder on useless by the time the final Scribe product has been created.  For example, 12 Flax fibers for 1 Linen Supply Sack. 


3. Quantities:  The overall process is functional and tolerable when dealing with small quantities.  Lets say less then a dozen finished products at a time for discussion purposes.  But the process immediately deteriorates when scaling up to full stacks.  We are operating at a guild level (500 possible players) so large quantities are continuously needed to properly supply the guild.  It does not seem unreasonable for core WvW commander to have a full stack of guild siege of each item at her/his disposal in personal inventory.  Meanwhile the Scribes are preparing the next set of stacks at the Guild level for the Commanders to pull from.  


For example 30,000 units of Flax Fiber are needed to make 2,500 units of Tactics/Improvements for WvW.  That works out to less then 119 units for each.  Less even since some require two linen sacks.  Siege, 3-1 ratio for turning basic siege into guild siege.  These numbers go up fast when dealing with multiple stacks. 


The reality is a limited number of guild Scribes shoulder the bulk of the burden when it comes to keeping the guild supplied and stocked.  The process for making that happen has already been well documented. 

My personal experience with Scribe. 


It took me nearly 3 full-time months (8+ hours a day, 5+ days a week) to dress up our guild hall at a real cost of over 4 thousand US Dollars in Gems directly converted to gold for base materials.  Raw materials then had to be rolled up into finished decorations, taking hours upon hours to churn out per session to make then again to assemble.  Basic guild decorations have be purchased individually from the Basic Decorations vendor and Trader.  Yet, tens of thousands of some of these items are needed to make the needed quantities of the final products.   Red Lantern's and Pumpkins to mention just two.   Some finished products require 75 pumpkins to make 1 item.  That's 75 individual clicks for just one of the basic components that roll-up into the finished product.  Guild Halls are huge.  To do it right far more then a handful of items are needed.  Again, the vast majority of guild members do nothing to contribute the basic components.  They have no insights.  So this thinking that the 'Guild' is helping to make all this happen is flat out wrong when scaling up to any meaningful level. 


To keep our core commanders moving, i like to keep about 1,500 items of each piece of guild siege in place.  This gives me sufficient time for buy orders to be filled for badges of tribute, flax, dust. It takes a few hours to move a single stack through the assembly device.  That translates into a full-time job.  Meanwhile tags are withdrawing siege with a click on the other end.


This talk of Bots is unfair.  The current mechanics Anet has in place for Scribe makes basic double-click macros an absolute requirement.  The current cost for a stack of guild catas is 136 gold, busy wvw tags can burn through that stack in a week or less.  I have never sold a single piece of siege.  It is far to precocious for the guild tags.  I welcome Anet closing my account for using a macro.  It would save me a lot of real money.  But i trust they know their is an issue and will allow it to stand until they can update it.


I support (not run) two guilds on one server that have personally cost me over 7,000 US Dollars over the past 12 months in Gems.  I am sharing these numbers because money talks and kitten walks.  Until Anet adjusts the required quantities needed to make guild decorations and siege, Scribe life is pretty unpleasant.  The profession is completely one-sided and by far the most underappreciated of all of the trades.  Once every month or two someone sends me a 250 Flax Fibers or 100 Badges of Tribute and i want to cry.  Because i know they think they are doing good but i need 15,000 flax or a stack of badges before i will even approach the Scribe Station.  Guilds should be throwing praise, vast quantities of materials, and coin at your Scribes.  Because without them you have little more then a dusty cave. 


So if you are considering learning to Scribe be ready to grab a fistful of hundreds, buy a permanent personal trader, a basic macro tool, a stable computer and clear your calendar.  Because anything more then a few token items is not going to get you there. 


For the record our guild hall is pretty amazing.  I enjoy spending time sitting back and having a few beers while enjoying the vistas from any one of our taverns, restaurants, library, war room, fishing docs, and so on.  It beats standing in the crowded markets of Mistlock and Armistice Bastion any day. 

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