Guardian is the strongest

[Arheundel.6451]

https://www.twitch.tv/mightyteapotIs this Gold rank? ..There are like 5 guardians in a match here , if somebody new would take the forum seriously they'd think that PvP is 10 rangers per match....where each pet can facetank a whole team (minimum) by itself and then the ranger comes in and Maul one shot what's left standing xd

[Ragnar.4257]

@"Arheundel.6451" said:https://www.twitch.tv/mightyteapotIs this Gold rank? ..There are like 5 guardians in a match here , if somebody new would take the forum seriously they'd think that PvP is 10 rangers per match....where each pet can facetank a whole team (minimum) by itself and then the ranger comes in and Maul one shot what's left standing xd

Who are you even talking to? Who was suggesting there are 10 rangers per match?

As someone who has mained power-guardian in P2 EU for the past few seasons, I can tell you that the only 1v1's that I go into knowing I'm almost certainly going to eventually lose, are renegade, weaver, and ranger. Mesmer I go into fully expecting to win, and if I don't then I've been heavily outplayed. This isn't an opinion hastily cobbled together, it's a long-term trend observed over 1000s of games, against top-tier players.

The fact that the rangers you get placed against can't deal with a TORCH guardian...... I mean, anything goes at that level I guess.

[Brokensunday.4098]

@"Arheundel.6451" said:https://www.twitch.tv/mightyteapotIs this Gold rank? ..There are like 5 guardians in a match here , if somebody new would take the forum seriously they'd think that PvP is 10 rangers per match....where each pet can facetank a whole team (minimum) by itself and then the ranger comes in and Maul one shot what's left standing xd

Didn't saw the whole video cuz work but it was pve from what i saw, don't get me wrong you can go to p1 with guard but beyond p1 g3 ur at a disadvantage running a guardian, every one is running guard cuz of how easy is to burst cuz of the trapper runes.

[Armen.1483]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Armen.1483 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:Guardian beats mesmer, engi, thiefActually mesmer counters DH. You can trigger their traps with phantasms if they want to meme trap you on node.

True, but guardian is more than just trapper-DH.

TBH, everything counters trapper-DH. Beating trapper-DH isn't about classes or builds, it's just about applying 3% of brain power. But try telling that to this community....

Right, but it is their only cheesy mechanic that is so hard to deal with, other stuff is easy to outplay. Other than that you can boonrip guardians of their aegis and other boons which is a big deal you can oneshot em like they do to you. I donno when I play mesmer in PVP, guardians are free food for me. It is actually the only reason I play mesmer honestly. But I agree guardians are cheesy and braindead class for PVP.

[Crozame.4098]

@aymnad.9023 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:Guardian beats mesmer, engi, thiefGuardian is 50/50 with necro, warrior, these matchups really come down to skill or 1 lucky hit turning everything around.Guardian loses to rev/ren, ranger, weaver

So, no, guardian is not "the strongest". If you're a mesmer or thief I can imagine you'd think that. But if you're a renegade guardians are free food. Guardian actually has a fairly balanced mix of matchups, with some being easy and some being very hard.

I'm assuming this is a troll post; the above is just an FYI for anyone else reading this. If it isn't a troll post...... yikes. Just try asking anyone in the top 100 what the strongest 1v1 class is. It'll be a looooong time before anyone says "guardian".

Guardian is 50/50 with necro, warrior, these matchups really come down to skill or 1 lucky hit turning everything around.Guardian loses to rev/ren, ranger, weaverDepends on build right?

Again war, FB can win quite easily? Core bunker can not loose to it and can win the node, same for rev?ranger, at least it is super easy to kill the pet for a burn guard?

Well, yes it depends on build. The above is a general guide, not true for every possible combination of builds. FB from a year ago would beat warrior easily.... but you must have missed like 10 balance patches to think that's still true.

Ranger pet will only die in a 1v1 with guard if the ranger isn't paying attention and doesn't make use of pet swap/recall. Obviously if the ranger is bad, the guardian will win. That's not really a valid comparison.

It's possible to pay attention, but if you sawp your pet because it has 100hp and your full pet comes without cd increase, it's possible that it can survive the 15 seconds or it survives 3 seconds because it gets hit by 1 spirit sword

Do tell me more about how a spirit sword, which will do at most 8k burning damage if all 4 hits connect, can insta-kill a pet with 28k-40k hp.

In a 1v1 scenario, if your pet dies its your own fault. Simply no other way of looking at it. Obviously in big fights its different, but 1v1 its very clear.

So you only use 1 skill in 15s? Must be quite challenging… I have had no issue killing most pets on power scourge / bruiser scrapper and recently core power guard. Only a few are really tanky like jacaranda. Since most of the pets cannot dispel conditions I have a hard time seeing condi being worse than power builds…Also the pet only has 2 positions (go for the target or stay close) the only way you can prevent that is to have him close to you and far from the node which would mean a decap.

So you can find ways to deal with the pet.On deadeye I didn't go for the pet. When there is a high ground I just hit the ranger, go down before the pet reaches me, then tp back up.

Its just hard to communicate with those who really love their main class~

[ollbirtan.2915]

Please nerf teeeeef! Thanks!

[Buran.3796]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

Yeah ok thank you for laugh..oh my god and how the hell does a well played guardian lose to a renegade when all they have for burst is shortbow and no access to Glint heal to cover for condi burst?

How a well played Renegade loses to a Guardian? The Renegade has 5 condition cleanses in Shooting Stone, 2 in Renewing Wave, 1 on Cleansing Channel and 1 in the weapon swap. That's 11 cleanses each 30 seconds, have plenty of sustain in Jalis and can disengage at will because at every time has 12 skills which cost them energy and provide 6 seconds of enhanced swiftness (not even counting Shiro's mobility). Guardians felt like sitting ducks...

[felix.2386]

@"Ragnar.4257" said:Guardian beats mesmer, engi, thiefGuardian is 50/50 with necro, warrior, these matchups really come down to skill or 1 lucky hit turning everything around.Guardian loses to rev/ren, ranger, weaver

So, no, guardian is not "the strongest". If you're a mesmer or thief I can imagine you'd think that. But if you're a renegade guardians are free food. Guardian actually has a fairly balanced mix of matchups, with some being easy and some being very hard.

I'm assuming this is a troll post; the above is just an FYI for anyone else reading this. If it isn't a troll post...... yikes. Just try asking anyone in the top 100 what the strongest 1v1 class is. It'll be a looooong time before anyone says "guardian".

theres no way burn guard is 50/50 with power war lol.power war isnt viable even 1v1 on point at this very moment

[Crab Fear.1624]

@"Ragnar.4257" said:Guardian beats mesmer, engi, thiefGuardian is 50/50 with necro, warrior, these matchups really come down to skill or 1 lucky hit turning everything around.Guardian loses to rev/ren, ranger, weaver

So, no, guardian is not "the strongest". If you're a mesmer or thief I can imagine you'd think that. But if you're a renegade guardians are free food. Guardian actually has a fairly balanced mix of matchups, with some being easy and some being very hard.

I'm assuming this is a troll post; the above is just an FYI for anyone else reading this. If it isn't a troll post...... yikes. Just try asking anyone in the top 100 what the strongest 1v1 class is. It'll be a looooong time before anyone says "guardian".

So basically, you are saying you are not top 100? I thought you said one must be top 100 to have an opinion, a paradox as I know you main guardian....> @Khalisto.5780 said:

Fire weaver don't lose to any guardian build i think, you may not kill dh if they are smart. But they will eventually give you node while stealth

This guy brought up another problem class in the current game state.

Weaver is under the radar OP thanks to the Feb 2020 patch

[Sylvari.2916]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:Guardian beats mesmer, engi, thiefGuardian is 50/50 with necro, warrior, these matchups really come down to skill or 1 lucky hit turning everything around.Guardian loses to rev/ren, ranger, weaver

So, no, guardian is not "the strongest". If you're a mesmer or thief I can imagine you'd think that. But if you're a renegade guardians are free food. Guardian actually has a fairly balanced mix of matchups, with some being easy and some being very hard.

I'm assuming this is a troll post; the above is just an FYI for anyone else reading this. If it isn't a troll post...... yikes. Just try asking anyone in the top 100 what the strongest 1v1 class is. It'll be a looooong time before anyone says "guardian".

Guardian is 50/50 with necro, warrior, these matchups really come down to skill or 1 lucky hit turning everything around.Guardian loses to rev/ren, ranger, weaverDepends on build right?

Again war, FB can win quite easily? Core bunker can not loose to it and can win the node, same for rev?ranger, at least it is super easy to kill the pet for a burn guard?

Well, yes it depends on build. The above is a general guide, not true for every possible combination of builds. FB from a year ago would beat warrior easily.... but you must have missed like 10 balance patches to think that's still true.

Ranger pet will only die in a 1v1 with guard if the ranger isn't paying attention and doesn't make use of pet swap/recall. Obviously if the ranger is bad, the guardian will win. That's not really a valid comparison.

It's possible to pay attention, but if you sawp your pet because it has 100hp and your full pet comes without cd increase, it's possible that it can survive the 15 seconds or it survives 3 seconds because it gets hit by 1 spirit sword

Do tell me more about how a spirit sword, which will do at most 8k burning damage if all 4 hits connect, can insta-kill a pet with 28k-40k hp.

In a 1v1 scenario, if your pet dies its your own fault. Simply no other way of looking at it. Obviously in big fights its different, but 1v1 its very clear.

Haha wat pet has 28k hp let alone 40k??? Wtf lol in spvp ? I wish likely your gonna have a mix of 16k-22k hp pets at the very best for viable builds

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@"Ragnar.4257" said:Guardian beats mesmer, engi, thiefGuardian is 50/50 with necro, warrior, these matchups really come down to skill or 1 lucky hit turning everything around.Guardian loses to rev/ren, ranger, weaver

So, no, guardian is not "the strongest". If you're a mesmer or thief I can imagine you'd think that. But if you're a renegade guardians are free food. Guardian actually has a fairly balanced mix of matchups, with some being easy and some being very hard.

I'm assuming this is a troll post; the above is just an FYI for anyone else reading this. If it isn't a troll post...... yikes. Just try asking anyone in the top 100 what the strongest 1v1 class is. It'll be a looooong time before anyone says "guardian".

A good thief scams guardian in WvW, I wouldn't draw conclusions based on PvP alone (even if this is the PvP-sub). If anything, however, this is a fine proof of thief's sad state in PvP overall.

Guardian's by no means the apex of PvP power scale - limited mobility and lack of passive defense traits see to that.

[Crozame.4098]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@"Ragnar.4257" said:Guardian beats mesmer, engi, thiefGuardian is 50/50 with necro, warrior, these matchups really come down to skill or 1 lucky hit turning everything around.Guardian loses to rev/ren, ranger, weaver

So, no, guardian is not "the strongest". If you're a mesmer or thief I can imagine you'd think that. But if you're a renegade guardians are free food. Guardian actually has a fairly balanced mix of matchups, with some being easy and some being very hard.

I'm assuming this is a troll post; the above is just an FYI for anyone else reading this. If it isn't a troll post...... yikes. Just try asking anyone in the top 100 what the strongest 1v1 class is. It'll be a looooong time before anyone says "guardian".

A good thief scams guardian in WvW, I wouldn't draw conclusions based on PvP alone (even if this is the PvP-sub). If anything, however, this is a fine proof of thief's sad state in PvP overall.

Guardian's by no means the apex of PvP power scale - limited mobility and lack of passive defense traits see to that.

No, you cannot draw any conclusions from WvW to sPvP, especially for thief. Thief is not killable in WvW, can reset any times they want. This is not true in sPvP, where there are other objectives.

Core support guardian is becoming popular, bunker guards are also unkillable in 1v1 or even 2v1, burn core guard and burn trapper DH can potentially wipe out 3-4 opponents.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Crozame.4098 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@"Ragnar.4257" said:Guardian beats mesmer, engi, thiefGuardian is 50/50 with necro, warrior, these matchups really come down to skill or 1 lucky hit turning everything around.Guardian loses to rev/ren, ranger, weaver

So, no, guardian is not "the strongest". If you're a mesmer or thief I can imagine you'd think that. But if you're a renegade guardians are free food. Guardian actually has a fairly balanced mix of matchups, with some being easy and some being very hard.

I'm assuming this is a troll post; the above is just an FYI for anyone else reading this. If it isn't a troll post...... yikes. Just try asking anyone in the top 100 what the strongest 1v1 class is. It'll be a looooong time before anyone says "guardian".

A good thief scams guardian in WvW, I wouldn't draw conclusions based on PvP alone (even if this is the PvP-sub). If anything, however, this is a fine proof of thief's sad state in PvP overall.

Guardian's by no means the apex of PvP power scale - limited mobility and lack of passive defense traits see to that.

No, you cannot draw any conclusions from WvW to sPvP, especially for thief. Thief is not killable in WvW, can reset any times they want. This is not true in sPvP, where there are other objectives.

Core support guardian is becoming popular, bunker guards are also unkillable in 1v1 or even 2v1, burn core guard and burn trapper DH can potentially wipe out 3-4 opponents.

When the OP is phrased as overarchingly as "what is stronger than guardian", it becomes difficult to forego mentioning other game modes in order to provide a satisfactory perspective.

Besides, your post contains a few fallacies: 1) thief is killable in WvW - it varies from extremely hard (further varying based on player skill on either side) to nigh' impossible, and is matchup-dependent. 2) Thief cannot reset "any time they want" - there's still 3 seconds of reveal time that any spec 'part from DE has to deal with. Usually not an issue, it can become a factor when fighting multiple people (ofc I cannot speak on the behalf of others on how they want to play their game).

Regarding trapper DH - yes, it can wipe out multiple opponents, but under a very specific set of circumstances (against capable players, at least). The larger issue, in my opinion, comes from a similar set of dilemmas Rune of the Trapper provides when compared to thief's WvW performance - but amplified: it is too low risk compared to the rewards it reaps - on top of being of notably lower skill floor and ceiling than thief in general.

[Math.5123]

@Crozame.4098 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@"Ragnar.4257" said:Guardian beats mesmer, engi, thiefGuardian is 50/50 with necro, warrior, these matchups really come down to skill or 1 lucky hit turning everything around.Guardian loses to rev/ren, ranger, weaver

So, no, guardian is not "the strongest". If you're a mesmer or thief I can imagine you'd think that. But if you're a renegade guardians are free food. Guardian actually has a fairly balanced mix of matchups, with some being easy and some being very hard.

I'm assuming this is a troll post; the above is just an FYI for anyone else reading this. If it isn't a troll post...... yikes. Just try asking anyone in the top 100 what the strongest 1v1 class is. It'll be a looooong time before anyone says "guardian".

A good thief scams guardian in WvW, I wouldn't draw conclusions based on PvP alone (even if this is the PvP-sub). If anything, however, this is a fine proof of thief's sad state in PvP overall.

Guardian's by no means the apex of PvP power scale - limited mobility and lack of passive defense traits see to that.

No, you cannot draw any conclusions from WvW to sPvP, especially for thief. Thief is not killable in WvW, can reset any times they want. This is not true in sPvP, where there are other objectives.

Core support guardian is becoming popular, bunker guards are also unkillable in 1v1 or even 2v1, burn core guard and burn trapper DH can potentially wipe out 3-4 opponents.

Get on this unkillable core bunker guard and I'll 2v1 you. See if you actually last 10 seconds.

Spite reaper can also potentially wipe out 3-4 opponents. Trapper runes are the only issue. Once they go, burn guard is dead. Where it should be.

[Crozame.4098]

@Math.5123 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@"Ragnar.4257" said:Guardian beats mesmer, engi, thiefGuardian is 50/50 with necro, warrior, these matchups really come down to skill or 1 lucky hit turning everything around.Guardian loses to rev/ren, ranger, weaver

So, no, guardian is not "the strongest". If you're a mesmer or thief I can imagine you'd think that. But if you're a renegade guardians are free food. Guardian actually has a fairly balanced mix of matchups, with some being easy and some being very hard.

I'm assuming this is a troll post; the above is just an FYI for anyone else reading this. If it isn't a troll post...... yikes. Just try asking anyone in the top 100 what the strongest 1v1 class is. It'll be a looooong time before anyone says "guardian".

A good thief scams guardian in WvW, I wouldn't draw conclusions based on PvP alone (even if this is the PvP-sub). If anything, however, this is a fine proof of thief's sad state in PvP overall.

Guardian's by no means the apex of PvP power scale - limited mobility and lack of passive defense traits see to that.

No, you cannot draw any conclusions from WvW to sPvP, especially for thief. Thief is not killable in WvW, can reset any times they want. This is not true in sPvP, where there are other objectives.

Core support guardian is becoming popular, bunker guards are also unkillable in 1v1 or even 2v1, burn core guard and burn trapper DH can potentially wipe out 3-4 opponents.

Get on this unkillable core bunker guard and I'll 2v1 you. See if you actually last 10 seconds.

Spite reaper can also

potentially

wipe out 3-4 opponents. Trapper runes are the only issue. Once they go, burn guard is dead. Where it should be.

Well, the rune, amulet etc are part of a build. But yea, Trapper rune needs to go, and I am happy that DH get compensated a bit for that. But that also depends on how ANET balance other classes.

But yea, I will be surprised that there are players still believing ANET or CMC can actually do good balance...

[Pimsley.3681]

most dmg I've gotten from a burn guard was 56K, weaver, over 80K. I was cleansing like a mofo but couldn't keep up. Please stop attacking DH and core burn guards. They are not the problem. Cheers.

[Pimsley.3681]

Talkin' Pvp, k? <3

[Crackers.9628]

@Pimsley.3681 said:most dmg I've gotten from a burn guard was 56K, weaver, over 80K. I was cleansing like a mofo but couldn't keep up. Please stop attacking DH and core burn guards. They are not the problem. Cheers.

Most I got from a guard was about 120-150k burn.

[Brokensunday.4098]

@Crackers.9628 said:

@Pimsley.3681 said:most dmg I've gotten from a burn guard was 56K, weaver, over 80K. I was cleansing like a mofo but couldn't keep up. Please stop attacking DH and core burn guards. They are not the problem. Cheers.

Most I got from a guard was about 120-150k

Counting downstate?

[Crackers.9628]

@Brokensunday.4098 said:

@Crackers.9628 said:

@Pimsley.3681 said:most dmg I've gotten from a burn guard was 56K, weaver, over 80K. I was cleansing like a mofo but couldn't keep up. Please stop attacking DH and core burn guards. They are not the problem. Cheers.

Most I got from a guard was about 120-150k

Counting downstate?

Could be, doesn´t really matter though.