One picture to encapsulate Revenant in pvp

[otto.5684]

I play condi rev, but it ain’t strong. Renegade is pretty bad. Power rev requires major team support to function.

Rev is surely the weakest class in sPvP. Two builds of which neither is meta and are hard countered by meta classes.

[Buran.3796]

@otto.5684 said:

Rev is surely the weakest class in sPvP. Two builds of which neither is meta and are hard countered by meta classes.

But happens that two of the new meta classes (Spellbreaker and Firebrand) aren't exactly a hard counter to Rev, and if stacking were allowed in tournaments only 3 classes will secure a slot, so the gap between "the weakest class " and five of the others isn't big.

[Amityel.5324]

rev can solo kill firebrand and i think its only class that can kill him thanks to quickness superspeed uptime from shiro.....

[narcx.3570]

@Flauvious.6195 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:Herald isn't bad though. It's just Renegade that is trash.

The problem is unless you are demon condi build, or use ventari (and be completely useless otherwise), herald has literally 0 condi cleanse. You're supposedly "weak to heavy condi pressure", but you can't be weak to a thing 90% of people are using, this just means you're weak.

Well, if you're playing Power Shiro you should never be in a situation where you're fighting more than one person unless you're ganking a team fight, and even then you're in and out. So the condi's aren't exactly unmanageable vs your leadership runes and iframes unless you get +1 bombed by a sneaky mirage or something along those lines.

Although I definitely agree that they need to reassess Rev's weakness being condi's... When rev's first came out, conditions were no where near as strong or as universally viable as they are now, so it was fine. It even sort of made sense--since Revs could do so much burst damage, condi's were a logical weakness for them so that people could drop condis on them and then play pure defense while their conditions continued to do damage since the rev couldn't cleanse. But since that rev burst has been nerfed over and over again so many times, while their weakness has been buffed and reimagined in new and ridiculous ways, we have an insanely difficult landscape for Revs in PvP... Especially since their one real answer for it (just going condi themselves and using resistance) got indirectly nerfed by Spellbreakers/Scourge/Everybody using Boon Strip Sigils now.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

They need to give damage back to equilibrium and surge imo, maybe not all of the damage, but something.

Power revenant needs a team to survive... But is shit in team fight because of all the skills splitting damage on sword. Staff and equilibrium covered that weakness with some blanket AoE (surge is practically an AoE right?), but ever since those huge nerfs to those skills, revenant only shines when you're already winning the team fight and thrashing downs/rezbots with quickness sword autos and glint AoE.

Edit: I think another reasonable buff is to add boonstrip to the 2 unblockable hits given with Phase Traversal. 35 energy for current Phase Traversal is BS, but people probably don't want it being "spammed" like before.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Flauvious.6195 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:Herald isn't bad though. It's just Renegade that is trash.

The problem is unless you are demon condi build, or use ventari (and be completely useless otherwise), herald has literally 0 condi cleanse. You're supposedly "weak to heavy condi pressure", but you can't be weak to a thing 90% of people are using, this just means you're weak.

Except only Necromancer and Mesmer are the only two classes that run condi right now.

I see some burn guardians, but you're right in that the vast majority of professions still use primarily or exclusively power at the moment.

[narcx.3570]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

Edit: I think another reasonable buff is to add boonstrip to the 2 unblockable hits given with Phase Traversal. 35 energy for current Phase Traversal is BS, but people probably don't want it being "spammed" like before.

I think that's a pretty perfect idea... It's not at all OP or unreasonable for 35 energy and is still strong enough to get revs excited without stirring up too much QQ.

[Flauvious.6195]

@Crinn.7864 said:

Except only Necromancer and Mesmer are the only two classes that run condi right now.

Ahahahahahahahaha

[Buran.3796]

@narcx.3570 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

Edit: I think another reasonable buff is to add boonstrip to the 2 unblockable hits given with Phase Traversal. 35 energy for current Phase Traversal is BS, but people probably don't want it being "spammed" like before.

I think that's a pretty perfect idea... It's not at all OP or unreasonable for 35 energy and is still strong enough to get revs excited without stirring up too much QQ.

I would like most to see a reduction in the PT cost. 35 for a build that is mostly a melee fighter and lacks ranger viable weapons is madness. Isn't as hard in PvP because if the enemy retreats loses the control point, but in WvW I'm tired of chasing classes which has more disengage tools than we have close gaps, only to see how they restart a fight after poor management and mediocre skill displayed...

[Aenaos.8160]

Revenant is nicely balanced atm.It's got it's powers,defensive and offensive,spread out,it has proper resource management.It's a great class for PvP,and requires a brain to play.This is how all classes should be.it's just that all the other classes are so overpowered,and require so little skill to play optimally,that make Rev seem trash.

[Amityel.5324]

@Aenaos.8160 said:Revenant is nicely balanced atm.It's got it's powers,defensive and offensive,spread out,it has proper resource management.It's a great class for PvP,and requires a brain to play.This is how all classes should be.it's just that all the other classes are so overpowered,and require so little skill to play optimally,that make Rev seem trash.

and tell me whats easier to bring one class to be OP as others or to fix other 8 classes to its level? :D

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@Aenaos.8160 said:Revenant is nicely balanced atm.It's got it's powers,defensive and offensive,spread out,it has proper resource management.It's a great class for PvP,and requires a brain to play.This is how all classes should be.it's just that all the other classes are so overpowered,and require so little skill to play optimally,that make Rev seem trash.

"Nicely balanced"

Full Counter hits harder than Equilibrium on a shorter CD and with more utility.

We've heard "it's not underpowered, others are OP" before, and they buffed thief and warrior like crazy when people said the same about them. I guess the difference is it seems like Anet wants to kill off rev and pretend it doesn't exist (have you seen renegade? Made by intern or what?) so we'll see if revenant ever gets godly buffs like thief and warrior did (adrenal health and 25% dagger auto buff).

[Buran.3796]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

"Nicely balanced"

Full Counter hits harder than Equilibrium on a shorter CD and with more utility.

Well Equilibrium usually does 0 damage because you oftenly change legend when your energy is low.

Herald currently is better than Renegade, Deadeye and Weaver, can hold against Holosmith, Soulbeast and power Firebrand and can fight Spellbreaker for a while (albeit at the same skill level SB will end winning). From the PoF specs the only hard counters are condi Mirage and Scourge, and yet probably the next week patch won't harm the Herald, so is far from being bad or unplayable.

[Aenaos.8160]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Aenaos.8160 said:Revenant is nicely balanced atm.It's got it's powers,defensive and offensive,spread out,it has proper resource management.It's a great class for PvP,and requires a brain to play.This is how all classes should be.it's just that all the other classes are so overpowered,and require so little skill to play optimally,that make Rev seem trash.

"Nicely balanced"

Full Counter hits harder than Equilibrium on a shorter CD and with more utility.

We've heard "it's not underpowered, others are OP" before, and they buffed thief and warrior like crazy when people said the same about them. I guess the difference is it seems like Anet wants to kill off rev and pretend it doesn't exist (have you seen renegade? Made by intern or what?) so we'll see if revenant ever gets godly buffs like thief and warrior did (adrenal health and 25% dagger auto buff).

Renegade is properly set up for PvP.People complain about classes being able to spam powerfull attacks,spam numerous conditions,have insane amounts of blocks and evades,etc.Renegade does none of these.The "intern" is not the dev that designed Renegade,but the ones that designed SB and Scourge and all theother brainless builds that have turned PvP in GW2 to spamadan haven.In order to improve combat quality in PvP,and make this game mode more reliant on player skill and lesson classes and builds,Revenant should stay as it is,and all the over performing builds should be nerfed.

[Sereath.1428]

@Aenaos.8160 said:Revenant is nicely balanced atm.It's got it's powers,defensive and offensive,spread out,it has proper resource management.It's a great class for PvP,and requires a brain to play.This is how all classes should be.it's just that all the other classes are so overpowered,and require so little skill to play optimally,that make Rev seem trash.

Agreed

Yeah I'd say that Revenant is actually the most balanced class right now. Just because it actually takes brainpower to play, a high risk class with decent reward.However... in comparison to other classes it is actually pretty weak, but only when you put them side to side.

So yeah Instead of buffing Revenant I'd instead nerf everything else, but the problem is that the game is still full of overtuned specs... like, HoT and PoF included and who knows when will they do something about all that.

Now, if the only way is to buff Revenants (which I'd rather not have that) then I'd ask for utility buffs or nerfs to be rolled back:

Enchanted Daggers - Give them back the ability to not be wasted/consumed when you are blinded or if the target is blocking, immune.

Equilibrium - Revert the damage nerf, it's actually a quite hard to use trait. Invoking a legend triggers a burst that damages foes if your energy is above the threshold. (50+)

Facet of Light - The random patch it got its upkeep changed from -1 to -2 ... back to -1 energy

Precision Strike - Give it back its damage, totally uncalled nerf that came along with the Surge of the Mists -50% nerf (that staff 5 nerf alone was more than enough)

The tricky ones, could be just one or two at a time:

Crystal Hibernation - Give it back its full heal, it's absolutely not worth it right now unless it becomes a mobile block. Or give Envoy of Exuberance the ability to clear 2+ conditions. Although to be honest I'd rather not have that just to keep the theme of Revenant being weak to conditions still there.Riposting Shadows - Give it back its full endurance renewal on use, 50. Currently at 25.

Surge of the Mists - Keep the WvW/PvE numbers. Which already have the double -15% damage nerfs which got it it to a pretty fair spot.

Phase Traversal - Not necessarily a reversion to the first version but remove the CD from it or reduce the energy cost from 35 back to 20.

[Flauvious.6195]

@Aenaos.8160 said:Revenant is nicely balanced atm.It's got it's powers,defensive and offensive,spread out,it has proper resource management.It's a great class for PvP,and requires a brain to play.This is how all classes should be.it's just that all the other classes are so overpowered,and require so little skill to play optimally,that make Rev seem trash.

Yea but what's easier, buffing 1 class or nerfing 8 others? I'd rather they nerf others too, giving them meaningful weaknesses like revenant has, but it's just unlikely. The kind of buffs rev needs are mostly stuff to make it feel better in my opinion. Such as lower energy costs on swords. In the world where everyone has loads of evades, blocks, and invulnerability, it just feels terrible when one of your attacks gets whiffed. With every other class, your skill gets blocked or evaded, you can't use that skill for it's cd. With revenant, you aren't just wasting 1 skill, you're wasting your ability to cast any skill.

[narcx.3570]

@Buran.3796 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

Edit: I think another reasonable buff is to add boonstrip to the 2 unblockable hits given with Phase Traversal. 35 energy for current Phase Traversal is BS, but people probably don't want it being "spammed" like before.

I think that's a pretty perfect idea... It's not at all OP or unreasonable for 35 energy and is still strong enough to get revs excited without stirring up too much QQ.

I would like most to see a reduction in the PT cost. 35 for a build that is mostly a melee fighter and lacks ranger viable weapons is madness. Isn't as hard in PvP because if the enemy retreats loses the control point, but in WvW I'm tired of chasing classes which has more disengage tools than we have close gaps, only to see how they restart a fight after poor management and mediocre skill displayed...

Ya, but since they increased it to 35 from 25, I figured they're more likely to add something to it than reverse their previous balance change.

[Buran.3796]

@narcx.3570 said:

Ya, but since they increased it to 35 from 25, I figured they're more likely to add something to it than reverse their previous balance change.

The increase was from 20 units, no 25, and they also added a 5 second internal cooldown. The skill was nerfed two times. In fact the current status was handled like trash: first the added a 5s cd, which is fine for a skill that cost 20 energy units; then they increased the enrgy cost a whopping 75% up to 35, which means that the internal cd no longer has sense due takes you 7 seconds of auto attacking just to refill the energy to recast Phase Traversal. The fun thing is: despite all of the nerfs Shiro is still the second best legend after Glint. The only two ones meant to be played together and which didn't need major reworks and avoided becoming garbage.