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How to define unwinnable games


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As title mentioned. To me, the final score serves a quite objective measure. Of course, it has issues. But:if a lost is 400or more - 500, then maybe it can be carriable but did not perform well.On the other hand, if games are 250 or less - 500, then to me it is an uncarriable/unwinnable game.

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I think we can talk about the first sign of an unwinnable situation when you get +1ed somewhere, survive through kiting, bind them and your team still manages to lose the rest of the map in a 4v3. But then again, every game can be winnable - happens all the time that a team gets a grip halfway through the match in games that most would consider unwinnable

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@Avatar.3568 said:Not Tru, when game ends 250 to 500 its because your team started hard snowballing

Thats one possible explanation, but if you are in a team that does not understand regrouping, doesn't this mean its uncarriable?

Also snowballing is relatively subjective, and need to be reviewed after the match. But the final score is objective.

You say not 250, what about 200 - 500? 100 - 500?

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@snoow.1694 said:I think we can talk about the first sign of an unwinnable situation when you get +1ed somewhere, survive through kiting, bind them and your team still manages to lose the rest of the map in a 4v3. But then again, every game can be winnable - happens all the time that a team gets a grip halfway through the match in games that most would consider unwinnable

I disagree that every game can be winnable. But its off topic.

Yes, kiting 1v2 for a long time, yet you team still looses. But this is maybe because the other team also has a very good sidenoder and maybe kiting 1v3 for a long time. And in this case, maybe rotating to TFs might be a better option. Kiting 1v2 and still loosing can also be the fact that the opponent has a supporter (Thanks ANET for ignoring core support guard~) but you do not. In this case, that supporter can very well offset your effort in 1v2ing. IN this case, maybe also do something else.

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For me its like:200> we had no chance at all (bad comp, no regroup, no rota, no skill, no class knowledge)400> we had the chance but we screwed it (mostly no regroup, no rota, no class knowledge)500> they were better (well anything missing, that the opponent did correctly)

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i think best way to tell is recording your matches and watching them after, when you carried by emotions more games will look uncarriable.

Sometimes a small tweak on your build would have done it, sometimes a build that you play but not so well was better fit for that game giving you a more favorable results.

Sometimes you pile up small mistakes that made you lose the game.

A few days ago i was playing ranked, i've made a poor choice of playing lightning rod LR, after first duo lost against a DH it was clear i should've played fire. But some games are not easy to tell what went wrong.

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I consider any game unwinnable if :The enemy is snowballing with double our score and at least one member already gave up and is afk in spawn.

I've won games where the score seemed pretty skewed early at 200 - 100 and then we turned it around and won with 300~ - 500It's not impossible to win games from an initial loss, but when ranked matches can easily tilt in any side's favor based on a good +1 which asserts dominance or good rotation with decaps, having one dude which goes afk will lower yur chances of winning drastically.

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@snoow.1694 said:I think we can talk about the first sign of an unwinnable situation when you get +1ed somewhere, survive through kiting, bind them and your team still manages to lose the rest of the map in a 4v3. But then again, every game can be winnable - happens all the time that a team gets a grip halfway through the match in games that most would consider unwinnable

I hate this when I’m on a point and manage to kill 2 of their team after a 3 minute fight then smiling to myself and look at the map expecting a full cap and see my team are all dead and the map is for the enemy team haha.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have seen many games make a comeback or get thrown away with a 350 pt lead, beyond that is very unlikely. I don't get why teammates give up after losing one team fight, but then I don't ever give up until the match is over, might as well get some practice surviving and fighting a better team in before then.

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Depends on comp on how the team should recover. If you have good support options, doubling down on home and mid is good. If you have solid damage then zerging points is good. If you have mobility and the other team doesnt then decapping is good. Recovering is impossible if your team consistently loses the team fights and you lack the ability to pressure the map.

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The lopsided games are winnable, I've seen very high ranked players in some of my matches meme around for off-point kills while their team falls behind 300-100. Then they stop memeing and play a very tight point denial game while still managing to make kills, and end up winning 500-400.

Very few teams have what it takes to turn around that kind of deficit though. At minimum, it takes (1) players who can actually win fights, (2) a team that knows how to rotate to deny node points while still keeping theirs active and ticking, and (3) an enemy team that doesn't know how to counter that.

A 100 point deficit is easy to turn around, 200 is harder but doable, but beyond that it takes uncommon skill or a throw to turn things around in my experience.

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@voltaicbore.8012 said:but beyond that it takes uncommon skill or a throw to turn things around in my experience.

I agree with your post but the throws at that point are more common than many people would think, I think. Not so much on account of having a team that is amazingly good at comebacks, but because the enemy team starts to make mistakes and the losing team still plays alright. Especially when both teams don't have the best communication, many teams get overconfident and over extend at that point, and sometimes the lagging team winning a team fight or two against them at point throws the leading team completely off.

Granted often when you have that kind of a gap usually the winning team will win, but last season I'd say a good third the games I was in (gold ranking) where there was a 300-350 pt lead got flipped. 400 or more was almost always a write off, I don't know anymore if we won any of those, I don't think we did.

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@Drakonhammer.2148 said:

@voltaicbore.8012 said:but beyond that it takes uncommon skill or a throw to turn things around in my experience.

I agree with your post but the throws at that point are more common than many people would think, I think. Not so much on account of having a team that is amazingly good at comebacks, but because the enemy team starts to make mistakes and the losing team still plays alright. Especially when both teams don't have the best communication, many teams get overconfident and over extend at that point, and sometimes the lagging team winning a team fight or two against them at point throws the leading team completely off.

Granted often when you have that kind of a gap usually the winning team will win, but last season I'd say a good third the games I was in (gold ranking) where there was a 300-350 pt lead got flipped. 400 or more was almost always a write off, I don't know anymore if we won any of those, I don't think we did.

You know what, you have a very good point here - I was mostly focused on actively making a comeback, but having a shaky team passively lose their winning margin is all too common. And you're right, it doesn't take super skilled winners to flip things sometimes, it's often just that one team keeps trying to do the right things moderately well, and the other team slowly fritters away their lead by overextending, taking unnecessary risks and getting killed more, going for full caps instead of decaps when necessary, etc.

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@Crozame.4098 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:Not Tru, when game ends 250 to 500 its because your team started hard snowballing

Thats one possible explanation, but if you are in a team that does not understand regrouping, doesn't this mean its uncarriable?

Also snowballing is relatively subjective, and need to be reviewed after the match. But the final score is objective.

You say not 250, what about 200 - 500? 100 - 500?

If it's sub 100 it means the enemy's where snowballing your team and the majority of the players where better , if you have 250 points you needed at least to be able to secure some kills for the team, but 1 bad fight, probably with a try to rez and 2 players go directly down and than they can push all 3 nodes, especially on legacy, and farm all players by pure outnumbering and if you don't regroup than you have mostly lost

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@Zodi.8932 said:

@snoow.1694 said:I think we can talk about the first sign of an unwinnable situation when you get +1ed somewhere, survive through kiting, bind them and your team still manages to lose the rest of the map in a 4v3. But then again, every game can be winnable - happens all the time that a team gets a grip halfway through the match in games that most would consider unwinnable

I hate this when I’m on a point and manage to kill 2 of their team after a 3 minute fight then smiling to myself and look at the map expecting a full cap and see my team are all dead and the map is for the enemy team haha.

my fav is when you take roamer but your sidenoder ignores close and goes mid, forcing you into bad 1v1, after a win you see 4 enemies run to you as your entire team is fucking dead. somehow 3 people stay close and try to hit you through walls/kite spots. after 3min of monkey dancing around los you finally succumb to sweet release off death only to realize your you are 3 capped and your team tries to kill enemy guard 3man style and fails on enemy node.You respawn knowing full well that bunker monkey enemy is waiting at your node and it will take you 3min to do any harm to this thing and it makes you wonder if doing chores would be more fun.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@snoow.1694 said:I think we can talk about the first sign of an unwinnable situation when you get +1ed somewhere, survive through kiting, bind them and your team still manages to lose the rest of the map in a 4v3. But then again, every game can be winnable - happens all the time that a team gets a grip halfway through the match in games that most would consider unwinnable

I hate this when I’m on a point and manage to kill 2 of their team after a 3 minute fight then smiling to myself and look at the map expecting a full cap and see my team are all dead and the map is for the enemy team haha.

my fav is when you take roamer but your sidenoder ignores close and goes mid, forcing you into bad 1v1, after a win you see 4 enemies run to you as your entire team is kitten dead. somehow 3 people stay close and try to hit you through walls/kite spots. after 3min of monkey dancing around los you finally succumb to sweet release off death only to realize your you are 3 capped and your team tries to kill enemy guard 3man style and fails on enemy node.You respawn knowing full well that bunker monkey enemy is waiting at your node and it will take you 3min to do any harm to this thing and it makes you wonder if doing chores would be more fun.

U forgot to mention as the roamer atleast one person on ur team will blame u in game chat, after all its ur fault u can't carry them.

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Reminds me of the good-ol days when my team would start snowballing the other so hard that there was a 400 point gap. Then I would switch teams and snowball the team I was just on for the victory. That way I sorta got to play 2 games at once!

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Hard to say. I have been in games where the score ended in less than 50 points, but I knew it was unwinnable and I did not win. Other games with wider scores have been competitive.

When I see most of my team wipe mid in under 30 secs of combat, I know this game is dead. Cuz no matter what I do, it is hopeless.

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