Anyone else feel the 'known issues' list is really lacking?

[Bellbirds.1679]

@"Pacificterror.7805" said:I'll speak from a general perspective in this post - this is not talking about GW2 specifically:

Realistically with any game, there's typically a team to deal with existing content and a team to deal with yet-to-be-released content. The trouble with stuff that's broken, not working as intended or not working the way a player would like is fixing or tweaking it in a way that doesn't cause a million other problems in the process.

There's also the issue that from a dev perspective, fixing stuff tends to be pretty frustrating, boring, and above all unfulfilling. That doesn't mean it shouldn't get done, but it does usually lead to what gets fixed being cherry picked.....the stuff that's easier to fix, the interesting/fun challenge, etc etc - on top of stuff that's seen as an "urgent issue", obviously.

It's really not more complex than that in my opinion. There'll always be people making random excuses like "They're busy working on new content" (even though that kind of stuff has a dedicated team) or "They know what's important and are dealing with stuff in the order that needs to be done" (which can be true in a way....but it's usually more about addressing stuff that you can either get out of the way with less effort or doesn't make you want to quit your job)...and there'll be people on the opposite end of the spectrum thinking absolutely nothing gets done (which is why you ask for transparency, of course).

Next time you look at a particular bug you hate, instead of thinking it's getting ignored, picture a guy that has set aside time for the last x amount of weeks trying to sort it out for you but every fix just causes 1000 worse bugs in that 1 bug's place.

Again, not saying I have an issue with waiting for the fix, I just want to know if it'll be fixed eventually :) I know it's a difficult job

[Bellbirds.1679]

@Svarty.8019 said:Ehm... What if they're trying to fix exploitable issues? Do they tell us there are 20 exploitable issues to encourage nefarious people to look for them, especially if they've previously revealed that the team is extremely small?

On the other hand, what if they've got a BIG team, and aren't fixing bugs to your expectations? What then? It seems silly to be transparent on this issue.

To your first question: A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP, not to mention server rollbacks can and have been done due to exploits, and even if they're unpleasant, they are a way to mitigate damage.

To your second: transparency is a incentive to NOT have this happen. I also really doubt ANET would pay a huge team that isn't getting results. Your argument makes no sense to me.

[mercury ranique.2170]

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Personally, I'd rather they work on the upcoming expansion. /shrug

Lots of things aren't as often as they used to be since the pandemic and the work on the expansion.

But if you don't sort out the bugs, even slowly, they WILL mount up. That's why separate depeartments exist anyway. The group of devs fixing bugs aren't the devs making the new expac.

This is most likely not true. You have a Q/A department who gather and document bugs. they can fix some common bugs that are easy to fix. In many cases the bug fix is done by the department that created the content. I do not think a lot of crunching happen at Arenanet, but when a release approaches the focus will be more and more on the deadline and less on existing content. Obviouly, after the release there is more room to fix all bugs, old and new.

[kharmin.7683]

Weren't we told before that with the state of the old, spaghetti code that fixing some things may very well break other things even worse than the issue that was initially targeted? Or that there is no good idea on what else might break when fixing some other bugs?

[Bellbirds.1679]

@kharmin.7683 said:Weren't we told before that with the state of the old, spaghetti code that fixing some things may very well break other things even worse than the issue that was initially targeted? Or that there is no good idea on what else might break when fixing some other bugs?

That's not really an excuse to not tackle bugs, especially recent ones on thing that have been in the game since launch. If that is the case for a bug they should be open about it.

[Bellbirds.1679]

@mercury ranique.2170 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Personally, I'd rather they work on the upcoming expansion. /shrug

Lots of things aren't as often as they used to be since the pandemic and the work on the expansion.

But if you don't sort out the bugs, even slowly, they WILL mount up. That's why separate depeartments exist anyway. The group of devs fixing bugs aren't the devs making the new expac.

This is most likely not true. You have a Q/A department who gather and document bugs. they can fix some common bugs that are easy to fix. In many cases the bug fix is done by the department that created the content. I do not think a lot of crunching happen at Arenanet, but when a release approaches the focus will be more and more on the deadline and less on existing content. Obviouly, after the release there is more room to fix all bugs, old and new.

Could you provide sources for this? A lot/all of what you're saying just sounds like speculation.

[kharmin.7683]

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Weren't we told before that with the state of the old, spaghetti code that fixing some things may very well break other things even worse than the issue that was initially targeted? Or that there is no good idea on what else might break when fixing some other bugs?

That's not really an excuse to not tackle bugs, especially recent ones on thing that have been in the game since launch. If that is the case for a bug they should be open about it.

I think that it is if it would take too many resources to make it worth the effort. /shrug

[Bellbirds.1679]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Weren't we told before that with the state of the old, spaghetti code that fixing some things may very well break other things even worse than the issue that was initially targeted? Or that there is no good idea on what else might break when fixing some other bugs?

That's not really an excuse to not tackle bugs, especially recent ones on thing that have been in the game since launch. If that is the case for a bug they should be open about it.

I think that it is if it would take too many resources to make it worth the effort. /shrug

I think companies massively undervalue communication and transparency with the community, as well as showing that they care about the game by keeping it well maintained. You may not think it worth the effort, but as this thread is showing there is a big interest in transparency and honesty.

[kharmin.7683]

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Weren't we told before that with the state of the old, spaghetti code that fixing some things may very well break other things even worse than the issue that was initially targeted? Or that there is no good idea on what else might break when fixing some other bugs?

That's not really an excuse to not tackle bugs, especially recent ones on thing that have been in the game since launch. If that is the case for a bug they should be open about it.

I think that it is if it would take too many resources to make it worth the effort. /shrug

I think companies massively undervalue communication and transparency with the community, as well as showing that they care about the game by keeping it well maintained. You may not think it worth the effort, but as this thread is showing there is a big interest in transparency and honesty.

These forums represent such a small portion of the entire player base that it cannot be said that there is a big interest in anything. Also, I don't know how long you've been around but in the past Anet has been excoriated for communicating to the players and then not providing the stated results. It's bad PR when people on the official forums call Anet devs "liars". I don't fault them for the lack of communication. The community shares a good part of the blame for that.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:Ehm... What if they're trying to fix exploitable issues? Do they tell us there are 20 exploitable issues to encourage nefarious people to look for them, especially if they've previously revealed that the team is extremely small?

On the other hand, what if they've got a BIG team, and aren't fixing bugs to your expectations? What then? It seems silly to be transparent on this issue.

To your first question: A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP, not to mention server rollbacks can and have been done due to exploits, and even if they're unpleasant, they are a way to mitigate damage.

I take it you do not play WvW.

The desert BL was released more than 4 years ago. There are currently exploits available that have been available since it was released that have been reported multiple times. No fewer than two of which could be solved with a small invisible wall, or a tweak to a wall texture.

Then, when you realize how many maps in PvE have been ‘fixed’ to prevent map breaking with invisible walls normally within 2-3 months of the map being released..,

So.. before you say it will :

A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP

Realize that they wont be fixed that quickly. Or at all.

[mercury ranique.2170]

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@mercury ranique.2170 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Personally, I'd rather they work on the upcoming expansion. /shrug

Lots of things aren't as often as they used to be since the pandemic and the work on the expansion.

But if you don't sort out the bugs, even slowly, they WILL mount up. That's why separate depeartments exist anyway. The group of devs fixing bugs aren't the devs making the new expac.

This is most likely not true. You have a Q/A department who gather and document bugs. they can fix some common bugs that are easy to fix. In many cases the bug fix is done by the department that created the content. I do not think a lot of crunching happen at Arenanet, but when a release approaches the focus will be more and more on the deadline and less on existing content. Obviouly, after the release there is more room to fix all bugs, old and new.

Could you provide sources for this? A lot/all of what you're saying just sounds like speculation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITIL

[XenoSpyro.1780]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Personally, I'd rather they work on the upcoming expansion. /shrug

This kind of mentality is why the Font of Rhand event chain used to hang for months on end despite Diessa Plateau being over 5 years old at the time.

[Bellbirds.1679]

@mercury ranique.2170 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@mercury ranique.2170 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Personally, I'd rather they work on the upcoming expansion. /shrug

Lots of things aren't as often as they used to be since the pandemic and the work on the expansion.

But if you don't sort out the bugs, even slowly, they WILL mount up. That's why separate depeartments exist anyway. The group of devs fixing bugs aren't the devs making the new expac.

This is most likely not true. You have a Q/A department who gather and document bugs. they can fix some common bugs that are easy to fix. In many cases the bug fix is done by the department that created the content. I do not think a lot of crunching happen at Arenanet, but when a release approaches the focus will be more and more on the deadline and less on existing content. Obviouly, after the release there is more room to fix all bugs, old and new.

Could you provide sources for this? A lot/all of what you're saying just sounds like speculation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITIL

With all due respect, as interesting as that read is, it's still just a wikipedia page. It's a possibility Anet is set up like that, but not a certainty. Still, good read! Learned something new

[Bellbirds.1679]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:Ehm... What if they're trying to fix exploitable issues? Do they tell us there are 20 exploitable issues to encourage nefarious people to look for them, especially if they've previously revealed that the team is extremely small?

On the other hand, what if they've got a BIG team, and aren't fixing bugs to your expectations? What then? It seems silly to be transparent on this issue.

To your first question: A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP, not to mention server rollbacks can and have been done due to exploits, and even if they're unpleasant, they are a way to mitigate damage.

I take it you do not play WvW.

The desert BL was released more than 4 years ago. There are currently exploits available that have been available since it was released that have been reported multiple times. No fewer than two of which could be solved with a small invisible wall, or a tweak to a wall texture.

Then, when you realize how many maps in PvE have been ‘fixed’ to prevent map breaking with invisible walls normally within 2-3 months of the map being released..,

So.. before you say it will :

A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP

Realize that they wont be fixed that quickly. Or at all.

I do play WvW and I was mostly thinking of PvE in this post.

[Bellbirds.1679]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Weren't we told before that with the state of the old, spaghetti code that fixing some things may very well break other things even worse than the issue that was initially targeted? Or that there is no good idea on what else might break when fixing some other bugs?

That's not really an excuse to not tackle bugs, especially recent ones on thing that have been in the game since launch. If that is the case for a bug they should be open about it.

I think that it is if it would take too many resources to make it worth the effort. /shrug

I think companies massively undervalue communication and transparency with the community, as well as showing that they care about the game by keeping it well maintained. You may not think it worth the effort, but as this thread is showing there is a big interest in transparency and honesty.

These forums represent such a small portion of the entire player base that it cannot be said that there is a big interest in anything. Also, I don't know how long you've been around but in the past Anet has been excoriated for communicating to the players and then not providing the stated results. It's bad PR when people on the official forums call Anet devs "liars". I don't fault them for the lack of communication. The community shares a good part of the blame for that.

It may be a small portion of the playerbase but it's not that far fetched to extrapolate that people outside the forums will have equal interest. I see similar sentiments on GW2/reddit youtube channels as well. I've been around practically since launch so I know the history Anet has. I don't think some people calling them liars is a valid reason to shut down communications. That only makes their image suffer more.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:Ehm... What if they're trying to fix exploitable issues? Do they tell us there are 20 exploitable issues to encourage nefarious people to look for them, especially if they've previously revealed that the team is extremely small?

On the other hand, what if they've got a BIG team, and aren't fixing bugs to your expectations? What then? It seems silly to be transparent on this issue.

To your first question: A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP, not to mention server rollbacks can and have been done due to exploits, and even if they're unpleasant, they are a way to mitigate damage.

I take it you do not play WvW.

The desert BL was released more than 4 years ago. There are currently exploits available that have been available since it was released that have been reported multiple times. No fewer than two of which could be solved with a small invisible wall, or a tweak to a wall texture.

Then, when you realize how many maps in PvE have been ‘fixed’ to prevent map breaking with invisible walls normally within 2-3 months of the map being released..,

So.. before you say it will :

A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP

Realize that they wont be fixed that quickly. Or at all.

I do play WvW and I was mostly thinking of PvE in this post.

As most people who play GW2, you didn’t think about how it impacts WvW. You aren’t alone.

The point was: they won’t release a list of exploits being worked on because they would have to include all areas, or the outrage from the areas they leave out would be even more palpable than it is now.

And to include those exploits, means people would have a visible way to use them and continue to exploit those issues.

[Bellbirds.1679]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:Ehm... What if they're trying to fix exploitable issues? Do they tell us there are 20 exploitable issues to encourage nefarious people to look for them, especially if they've previously revealed that the team is extremely small?

On the other hand, what if they've got a BIG team, and aren't fixing bugs to your expectations? What then? It seems silly to be transparent on this issue.

To your first question: A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP, not to mention server rollbacks can and have been done due to exploits, and even if they're unpleasant, they are a way to mitigate damage.

I take it you do not play WvW.

The desert BL was released more than 4 years ago. There are currently exploits available that have been available since it was released that have been reported multiple times. No fewer than two of which could be solved with a small invisible wall, or a tweak to a wall texture.

Then, when you realize how many maps in PvE have been ‘fixed’ to prevent map breaking with invisible walls normally within 2-3 months of the map being released..,

So.. before you say it will :

A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP

Realize that they wont be fixed that quickly. Or at all.

I do play WvW and I was mostly thinking of PvE in this post.

As most people who play GW2, you didn’t think about how it impacts WvW. You aren’t alone.

The point was: they won’t release a list of exploits being worked on because they would have to include all areas, or the outrage from the areas they leave out would be even more palpable than it is now.

And to include those exploits, means people would have a visible way to use them and continue to exploit those issues.

I did think of WvW. In fact, this would benefit WvW greatly. There would be a lot less frustration if people in the WvW community knew that while the bug fix was taking a while, it has been acknowledged. If you really want to keep massive exploits more under wraps, fine, just make those the exception. I really don't see how there could be any valid argument against more communication from the devs. There will be outrage eitherway, especially from the sorts of players I most often see in WvW.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:Ehm... What if they're trying to fix exploitable issues? Do they tell us there are 20 exploitable issues to encourage nefarious people to look for them, especially if they've previously revealed that the team is extremely small?

On the other hand, what if they've got a BIG team, and aren't fixing bugs to your expectations? What then? It seems silly to be transparent on this issue.

To your first question: A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP, not to mention server rollbacks can and have been done due to exploits, and even if they're unpleasant, they are a way to mitigate damage.

I take it you do not play WvW.

The desert BL was released more than 4 years ago. There are currently exploits available that have been available since it was released that have been reported multiple times. No fewer than two of which could be solved with a small invisible wall, or a tweak to a wall texture.

Then, when you realize how many maps in PvE have been ‘fixed’ to prevent map breaking with invisible walls normally within 2-3 months of the map being released..,

So.. before you say it will :

A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP

Realize that they wont be fixed that quickly. Or at all.

I do play WvW and I was mostly thinking of PvE in this post.

As most people who play GW2, you didn’t think about how it impacts WvW. You aren’t alone.

The point was: they won’t release a list of exploits being worked on because they would have to include all areas, or the outrage from the areas they leave out would be even more palpable than it is now.

And to include those exploits, means people would have a visible way to use them and continue to exploit those issues.

I did think of WvW. In fact, this would benefit WvW greatly. There would be a lot less frustration if people in the WvW community knew that while the bug fix was taking a while, it has been acknowledged.

Alliances was ‘acknowledged’. And what good has that done? Three years running with the last official update post being two years ago. And you wonder why people who play that mode primarily are... lets just say frustrated.

If you really want to keep massive exploits more under wraps, fine, just make those the exception. I really don't see how there could be any valid argument against more communication from the devs.

This isn’t about communication from the devs. Look at the developer tracker. Just look at it. The posts from developers in official capacities in at least the last two months have been to post game update threads and bug fixes. That’s it. There are plenty of opportunities to ‘communicate’ with us. They have made an organizational decision to not communicate.

There will be outrage eitherway, especially from the sorts of players I most often see in WvW.

So., you’d be OK with a public forum showing ALL of the exploits available in a (admittedly limited) competitive mode?

Since the answer to that is yes, I guess I have heard enough.

[Bellbirds.1679]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:Ehm... What if they're trying to fix exploitable issues? Do they tell us there are 20 exploitable issues to encourage nefarious people to look for them, especially if they've previously revealed that the team is extremely small?

On the other hand, what if they've got a BIG team, and aren't fixing bugs to your expectations? What then? It seems silly to be transparent on this issue.

To your first question: A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP, not to mention server rollbacks can and have been done due to exploits, and even if they're unpleasant, they are a way to mitigate damage.

I take it you do not play WvW.

The desert BL was released more than 4 years ago. There are currently exploits available that have been available since it was released that have been reported multiple times. No fewer than two of which could be solved with a small invisible wall, or a tweak to a wall texture.

Then, when you realize how many maps in PvE have been ‘fixed’ to prevent map breaking with invisible walls normally within 2-3 months of the map being released..,

So.. before you say it will :

A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP

Realize that they wont be fixed that quickly. Or at all.

I do play WvW and I was mostly thinking of PvE in this post.

As most people who play GW2, you didn’t think about how it impacts WvW. You aren’t alone.

The point was: they won’t release a list of exploits being worked on because they would have to include all areas, or the outrage from the areas they leave out would be even more palpable than it is now.

And to include those exploits, means people would have a visible way to use them and continue to exploit those issues.

I did think of WvW. In fact, this would benefit WvW greatly. There would be a lot less frustration if people in the WvW community knew that while the bug fix was taking a while, it has been acknowledged.

Alliances was ‘acknowledged’. And what good has that done? Three years running with the last official update post being two years ago. And you wonder why people who play that mode primarily are... lets just say frustrated.

If you really want to keep massive exploits more under wraps, fine, just make those the exception. I really don't see how there could be any valid argument against more communication from the devs.

This isn’t about communication from the devs. Look at the developer tracker. Just look at it. The posts from developers in official capacities in at least the last two months have been to post game update threads and bug fixes. That’s it. There are plenty of opportunities to ‘communicate’ with us. They have made an organizational decision to not communicate.

There will be outrage eitherway, especially from the sorts of players I most often see in WvW.

So., you’d be OK with a public forum showing ALL of the exploits available in a (admittedly limited) competitive mode?

Since the answer to that is yes, I guess I have heard enough.

The stuff you are using as an argument against my point is literally the stuff I'm calling for to be fixed. I also said exploits in competitive modes could be left out to avoid them spreading faster, although I don't think it would do much at the point, exploits spread fast. You're also assuming a lot about what my 'answer' would be which doesn't help the discussion.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Bellbirds.1679 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Weren't we told before that with the state of the old, spaghetti code that fixing some things may very well break other things even worse than the issue that was initially targeted? Or that there is no good idea on what else might break when fixing some other bugs?

That's not really an excuse to not tackle bugs, especially recent ones on thing that have been in the game since launch. If that is the case for a bug they should be open about it.

I think that it is if it would take too many resources to make it worth the effort. /shrug

I think companies massively undervalue communication and transparency with the community, as well as showing that they care about the game by keeping it well maintained. You may not think it worth the effort, but as this thread is showing there is a big interest in transparency and honesty.

I don't know....it's seems most of the 'interest' is coming just from one...or a few...players on this particular topic.

Like many cool ideas that ArenaNet has tried, they seem to be in one Dev's 'backyard' (perhaps it was their idea, and told they could run with it), and when that Dev leaves or is moved to another team, it kind of fizzles out.

It would be great to know the status of real game-breaking bugs, but, well, it is what it is. It's not a really big team at ArenaNet, and, according to the Devs, they have more than enough to do to offer us what they can.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@XenoSpyro.1780 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Personally, I'd rather they work on the upcoming expansion. /shrug

This kind of mentality is why the Font of Rhand event chain used to hang for months on end despite Diessa Plateau being over 5 years old at the time.

This kind of mentality? That statement has nothing to do with fixing bugs, but rather with spending the time (away from fixing bugs or working on the bugs that come with creating the expansion) to document the status of bugs.

Each to their own, I guess.