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Champions Chapter 3 [spoiler discussion]


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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Except they do. As already stated by many people, the Destroyer's actions are no more intelligent then normal animals. They show now truly intelligent moves or tactics. And Taimi's claim was proven by the very DRM she said it in because the Destroyer champion took the unintelligent action of going AWAY from the population center instead of toward it.

Could this also be a trait of the Kralkatorrik’s Fury sphere being displayed as it appears to be an effect of the “feedback loop”, which makes the destroyers rabid or in a fury? Even if the destroyers had any sort of intelligence or in most animal cases, instincts, maybe it’s being overwritten by the Fury Sphere, which could explain why the destroyers are almost attacking at random.

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There is a distinct difference between "lacking higher intelligence" and "lacking any intelligence", which: That points to the latter, not the former. I'm not doing anything "just to perpetuate an arg

@Tyson.5160 said:Could this also be a trait of the Kralkatorrik’s Fury sphere being displayed as it appears to be an effect of the “feedback loop”, which makes the destroyers rabid or in a fury? Even if the destroyers had any sort of intelligence or in most animal cases, instincts, maybe it’s being overwritten by the Fury Sphere, which could explain why the destroyers are almost attacking at random.I would find that unlikely given that Kralkatorrik, and the branded, showed more overall intelligence then the destroyers have shown.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:Could this also be a trait of the Kralkatorrik’s Fury sphere being displayed as it appears to be an effect of the “feedback loop”, which makes the destroyers rabid or in a fury? Even if the destroyers had any sort of intelligence or in most animal cases, instincts, maybe it’s being overwritten by the Fury Sphere, which could explain why the destroyers are almost attacking at random.I would find that unlikely given that Kralkatorrik, and the branded, showed more overall intelligence then the destroyers have shown.

Maybe, but the branded might be more accustomed to this sphere then the destroyers are. Taimi also advised that the destroyers are becoming more rabid, which could be the Fury Sphere as this appears to be gained from Kralkatorrik magic.

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@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@"Teratus.2859" said:

Yeah that's why I said it was more like a stain than partial corruption.. kinda like an infection, not corrupted/sick but doomed to be once it finally spreads.Also kinda like how a Warewolf curse is showcased in most media if you think about it.. if the change was permanent rather than only on a full moon thing.

Well this could fit if we wee talking about uncurable viral infection of sorts, like yeah you aren't technically speaking dead yet, but there is nothing you can do to prevent that virus from killing you off.

Yeah pretty much what I was thinking, though a virus tends to be transmissible which is why I thought stain would be a better word or curse..Not sure if Kellah corrupted others.. can't remember, but he did murder people.

There were undead following everywhere he went :P

That being said tho I think Kellah's condition could be explained by the fact that Zhaitan minions were, well, undead. And Kellah got corrupted alive, instead of usuall for zhaitan "risen have killed him, and he got risen".....

Anyway it's still precedence xD

Yea he was like a beacon for them.. or a magnet.They could sense the corruption in him, their masters magic and probably got confused and mistook him for some kind of higher risen or something.Some of Zhaitans stronger minions seemed to have a higher level of intelligence than your basic risen.. perhaps that was a factor as well.Or it could be that they were just protecting him until he turned completely.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Teratus.2859" said:Yeah that's why I said it was more like a stain than partial corruption.. kinda like an infection, not corrupted/sick but doomed to be once it finally spreads.Also kinda like how a Warewolf curse is showcased in most media if you think about it.. if the change was permanent rather than only on a full moon thing.Well this could fit if we wee talking about uncurable viral infection of sorts, like yeah you aren't technically speaking dead yet, but there is nothing you can do to prevent that virus from killing you off.In Bloodtide Coast there's a heart where you can help with a
. Those which die and are exposed further to the disease
. In Sparkfly Fen, Zhaitan's corruption spread to wildlife in
.

The virus comparison for Zhaitan's corruption on the living isn't that far off.

That said, this doesn't relate to Jormag's blood, or even Zhaitan's blood, since the Orrian relic that corrupted Kellach was an Orrian Sword.

Zhaitan does have plague like tactics that is true but I don't think they apply in Kellach's case of corruption.It seems like an isolated event.. he didn't corrupt others to my knowledge, as far as I can tell he only attracted Risen to follow him around and attack places that he had been.Unless I am overlooking something, it's been a while since I played that story content but I don't recall any case of Kellach corrupting others or making people sick.. his corruption seemed to only effect him.

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@"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:Except they do. As already stated by many people, the Destroyer's actions are no more intelligent then normal animals. They show now truly intelligent moves or tactics. And Taimi's claim was proven by the very DRM she said it in because the Destroyer champion took the unintelligent action of going AWAY from the population center instead of toward it.

Your argument of "animals are dumb dumbs" aside, how is it smarter to go at the major population center floating in the sky when you're injured and outnumbered? Versus going to a location of magic to heal and strengthen. As it stands, I'm very glad you're not a military leader, because your definition of smart tactics is apparently "just keep throwing soldiers at the enemy".

Besides, that's not what Taimi said - she wasn't saying it was stupid for going to the arena, she said:

Taimi: How do you—that doesn't even make any sense: the portal's over here.Taimi: Destroyers definitely do not have reason... New algorithm's almost locked on. Hold just a sec—

She says it doesn't make sense because she expects the destroyers to not have reason.

@Teratus.2859 said:Zhaitan does have plague like tactics that is true but I don't think they apply in Kellach's case of corruption.It seems like an isolated event.. he didn't corrupt others to my knowledge, as far as I can tell he only attracted Risen to follow him around and attack places that he had been.Unless I am overlooking something, it's been a while since I played that story content but I don't recall any case of Kellach corrupting others or making people sick.. his corruption seemed to only effect him.I was pointing out that the relation of Kellach's situation to being like a (non-transmitting) virus that kills him may not be far off given other situations of Zhaitan's corruption interacting with the living.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:She says it doesn't make sense because she expects the destroyers to not have reason.It never ceases to amaze me how you manage to warp incredibly basic wording into something entirely different from what is plainly there.

She says the destroyers don't have any reason because the action its taking doesn't make sense, not because she expects them to not have reason. Hence her pointing out that Rata sum's gateway is in the other direction. Its actions not making sense is the reason why she used the word "definitely". Its illogical actions are affirming that it has no reason.

Its like when someone makes the comment of "I wonder if I forgot to turn off the stove" then they turn around and see their house on fire and go "yep, definitely forgot to turn off the stove". They didn't expect their house to be on fire, or that they forgot to turn off the stove, it was a question about a possibility. The direct evidence of their house being on fire is the confirmation, thus the use of the word definitely.

This is plain English, and a common phrasing used all over the place.

I also love how you deliberately remove the context of Taimi's words by not including Braham's previous comment about the destroyer going to the arena, which is what Taimi was responding to. She didn't make the comment out of thin air, she made the comment as a response to Braham pointing out where its going. That isn't her saying something based off of expectation, that is her saying something based on a current hard fact.

Your argument of "animals are dumb dumbs" asideThat isn't the actual argument.

Versus going to a location of magic to heal and strengthenExceptA. Rata Sum has more magic then the literally magicless arena, and destroyers almost overran the city earlier that day. So its not exactly a hard target to breach.B. The destroyer doesn't heal itself, or get any stronger.Now you are just bold face making things up.

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@"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:It never ceases to amaze me how you manage to warp incredibly basic wording into something entirely different from what is plainly there.

She says the destroyers don't have any reason because the action its taking doesn't make sense, not because she expects them to not have reason. Hence her pointing out that Rata sum's gateway is in the other direction. Its actions not making sense is the reason why she used the word "definitely". Its illogical actions are affirming that it has no reason.

So you're saying my interpretation is invalid, while your interpretation is valid. Fair opinion, but I literally quoted what Taimi said and she said that destroyers don't have reason and that's why she thinks it's going after Rata Sum. Because attacking Rata Sum would be illogical in the destroyer's state - injured and alone, attacking a heavily fortified chokepoint? Only something mindless would do that.

There's also a bit of irony with you quoting Taimi as infalible here...

People have a bad habit of taking everything every NPC says as some word of god, 100% literal, undeniable, truth, when no writer writes NPCs that way. Everything is written from the perspective of that character, at tat time, with the knowledge they have at that moment.

You had this issue when Taimi went and proclaimed "but dragon minions can't be corrupted!" back in Season 4.

@"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:I also love how you deliberately remove the context of Taimi's words by not including Braham's previous comment about the destroyer going to the arena, which is what Taimi was responding to.I didn't remove that context at all though, I specifically mention what the destroyer was going to.

Your argument of "animals are dumb dumbs" asideThat isn't the actual argument.You have a weird way to argue otherwise, given you repeatedly say that.

ExceptA. Rata Sum has more magic then the literally magicless arena, and destroyers almost overran the city earlier that day. So its not exactly a hard target to breach.B. The destroyer doesn't heal itself, or get any stronger.Now you are just bold face making things up.A. The arena has countless magical artifacts being used in it, there has to be residual magic, not to mention in the DRM's beginning there are dozens of golems around it too. The city, counterly, is literally out of reach given the fact
it's floating
except through asura gate and both the gate and city are heavily defended and obviously so.B. Because we get on it immediately.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:I was pointing out that the relation of Kellach's situation to being like a (non-transmitting) virus that kills him may not be far off given other situations of Zhaitan's corruption interacting with the living.

I'm not very informed on viruses but I was under the assumption that part of what defines a virus is that it is transmittable within the same species.The only non transmittable viruses I am aware of are ones that can't transcend the species barrier from X species to humans.That's why the virus comparison seemed odd to me.. if Kellach's corruption was like a virus i'd expect it to spread to others he interacted with like we've seen happen with other examples you provided.That's why I associated it more with a curse/stain, because it wasn't transmittable and Kellach was the only direct victim.

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@Teratus.2859 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:I was pointing out that the relation of Kellach's situation to being like a (non-transmitting) virus that kills him may not be far off given other situations of Zhaitan's corruption interacting with the living.

I'm not very informed on viruses but I was under the assumption that part of what defines a virus is that it is transmittable within the same species.The only non transmittable viruses I am aware of are ones that can't transcend the species barrier from X species to humans.That's why the virus comparison seemed odd to me.. if Kellach's corruption was like a virus i'd expect it to spread to others he interacted with like we've seen happen with other examples you provided.That's why I associated it more with a curse/stain, because it wasn't transmittable and Kellach was the only direct victim.

I'm pretty sure that the use of the term "virus" in reference to Kellach isn't meant to be literal, but merely a comparison. Curse isn't a bad comparison either, imo, just that virus better described a specific aspect of Zhaitan's corruption.

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@Teratus.2859 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:I was pointing out that the relation of Kellach's situation to being like a (non-transmitting) virus that kills him may not be far off given other situations of Zhaitan's corruption interacting with the living.

I'm not very informed on viruses but I was under the assumption that part of what defines a virus is that it is transmittable within the same species.The only non transmittable viruses I am aware of are ones that can't transcend the species barrier from X species to humans.That's why the virus comparison seemed odd to me.. if Kellach's corruption was like a virus i'd expect it to spread to others he interacted with like we've seen happen with other examples you provided.That's why I associated it more with a curse/stain, because it wasn't transmittable and Kellach was the only direct victim.

In addition to what Greyhawk said, Zhaitan's corruption very much is transmittable, even if Kellach himself didn't noticeably transmit. Wielding corrupted artifacts seems to be the method of tranmission (as seen with Rissa's amulets and the fact Kellach never let go of his Orrian sword). If it were a literal disease and not a magical one, then it would be via direct contact or liquid transmission, rather than being air-born.

Though I tend to relate magic more to radiation than diseases, given that there's a large amount of relating magical corruption to permeation and duration of contact such as the Ossuary of the Unquiet Dead instance, CoE, and Thaumanova.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Maybe the elder dragons all die and somehow ressurect Zaihtan as he was made of the corpses of other dragons in the first place. Maybe that's how the imbalance corrects itself. His existence suggests this happened some time way in the past too. Just a crazy theory I've had stuck in my head for a few days now. Seems appropriate for an undead dragon... He could be the primary villian in EoD though even I admit that is a stretch.

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@Super Hayes.6890 said:Maybe the elder dragons all die and somehow ressurect Zaihtan as he was made of the corpses of other dragons in the first place. Maybe that's how the imbalance corrects itself. His existence suggests this happened some time way in the past too. Just a crazy theory I've had stuck in my head for a few days now. Seems appropriate for an undead dragon... He could be the primary villian in EoD though even I admit that is a stretch.

This quite annoyed me in the past as well, Undead Dragon gets booms in the face and he just dies...

I really wanted Zhaitan to be more along the lines of a Lich.. something that keeps coming back until we find a way to put him down for good.

Joko kinda displayed this a little in Gw2 though only the once before he got Ate.But back in Gw1 we killed Khilbron several times before his soul was finally consumed by the Soul Batteries through a Bloodstone.That was a good way to kill a Lich and I wish Zhaitan had come back at least once so we could have had a better fight with him, even if he was flightless and crippled now and we had to fight him on the ground, that would have been cool.

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@Teratus.2859 said:

@Super Hayes.6890 said:Maybe the elder dragons all die and somehow ressurect Zaihtan as he was made of the corpses of other dragons in the first place. Maybe that's how the imbalance corrects itself. His existence suggests this happened some time way in the past too. Just a crazy theory I've had stuck in my head for a few days now. Seems appropriate for an undead dragon... He could be the primary villian in EoD though even I admit that is a stretch.

This quite annoyed me in the past as well, Undead Dragon gets booms in the face and he just dies...

I really wanted Zhaitan to be more along the lines of a Lich.. something that keeps coming back until we find a way to put him down for good.

Joko kinda displayed this a little in Gw2 though only the once before he got Ate.But back in Gw1 we killed Khilbron several times before his soul was finally consumed by the Soul Batteries through a Bloodstone.That was a good way to kill a Lich and I wish Zhaitan had come back at least once so we could have had a better fight with him, even if he was flightless and crippled now and we had to fight him on the ground, that would have been cool.

If they were ever gonna do it, now would be a good time. I highly doubt they would but I want to fight him again. Every time I take an alt through the story I can't help but think they should not have killed the undead elder dragon first. IBS could use a twist like this right at the end imo.

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@Super Hayes.6890 said:

@Super Hayes.6890 said:Maybe the elder dragons all die and somehow ressurect Zaihtan as he was made of the corpses of other dragons in the first place. Maybe that's how the imbalance corrects itself. His existence suggests this happened some time way in the past too. Just a crazy theory I've had stuck in my head for a few days now. Seems appropriate for an undead dragon... He could be the primary villian in EoD though even I admit that is a stretch.

This quite annoyed me in the past as well, Undead Dragon gets booms in the face and he just dies...

I really wanted Zhaitan to be more along the lines of a Lich.. something that keeps coming back until we find a way to put him down for good.

Joko kinda displayed this a little in Gw2 though only the once before he got Ate.But back in Gw1 we killed Khilbron several times before his soul was finally consumed by the Soul Batteries through a Bloodstone.That was a good way to kill a Lich and I wish Zhaitan had come back at least once so we could have had a better fight with him, even if he was flightless and crippled now and we had to fight him on the ground, that would have been cool.

If they were ever gonna do it, now would be a good time. I highly doubt they would but I want to fight him again. Every time I take an alt through the story I can't help but think they should not have killed the undead elder dragon first. IBS could use a twist like this right at the end imo.

I think it's way too late now with the whole other Dragons having the Death spectrum magic but I do agree with you that Zhaitan probably shouldn't have been first to go.

Should probably have been Kralk or Jormag maybe.. but I don't think either of those Dragons would have been done half as well as they were if they had been first to go either.

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In retrospect, given where we are currently and how the dragons have evolved.. it really does seem pretty silly to think about how Zhaitan just kind of.. got beamed down and that was that. I mean I know there was the whole starving him of magic and killing of his eyes and mouth thing but the fact that we haven't been able to do that with any other elder dragons sense and seemingly always had to go into their mind or some other domain to be able to damage them like we did with Kralk makes the whole fight seem even more lackluster and fake in a sense.

But I feel like that's more of a symptom of the writing in this game in general. I mean I know they've mentioned several times about x has led to y or they've been building up to something or a long time - and it's true they may have some rough general outline of major plot events.. but the details in between and how they get to certain points has always felt like an afterthought leaving the story susceptible to a lot of things that feel contradictory or out of place.

I mean, given the format they're trying to tell the story in and the story they're trying to tell, I'm not sure they really could have done it much differently and some of these devices may have been necessary to push the story forward, but it can definitely be frustrating sometimes when you're paying really close attention and feel as though something should have gone more in depth or in a different direction.

I think the most frustrating thing for me is less about the inconsistences and more about the fact that there's just so much more story they could tell and the world they have to pull from is so rich just in the context we currently have but it's always so linear and focused. I think that's why I liked the little collection achievement books like the Parables in Siren's Landing and the books on Joko, etc. It gave us just a taste of something more without having to deviate from the main plot.

I think in general IBS has really just been the most disappointing though. There's so much I was expecting to see in this chapter, in this region. The cryptic stone circle regarding the facets in Valajar Fells? Is that the name? I never saw it in Guild Wars 1 but it always seemed like it could be a really cool mystery to discover in this game. There's also the origin of Jotun and discovering potential ruins and learning more about what they were like before they fell. The Eye of the North, who built it, and potentially finding some non-extinct Seers. The being in the Deepstone Fractal that seems to speak the same language that's on those tablets in the stone circle. The origin of the Spirits of the Wild. Even the prophecy with Braham was pretty much just concluded in a few lines of dialogue as "Oh - Braham's just becoming the champion of another elder dragon." And I'm sure they'll get more into this in the next chapter but still.

It feels like we just spent WAY too much time dealing with Charr politics and having Bangar and Ryland as this weird plot device to pull us to Jormag. I don't know. Maybe some people liked that. And I did like Grothmar. Just preference for me. I'm more of a origin story, mysticism and such kind of lore nut versus some people that are more about present story/dialogue driven.

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@Bast.7253 said:I think in general IBS has really just been the most disappointing though. There's so much I was expecting to see in this chapter, in this region. The cryptic stone circle regarding the facets in Valajar Fells? Is that the name? I never saw it in Guild Wars 1 but it always seemed like it could be a really cool mystery to discover in this game.That was already deciphered back in GW1, and it was talking about the dragons, and finding answers in Orr. Which vanilla covered with the Arah explorable paths.There's also the origin of Jotun and discovering potential ruins and learning more about what they were like before they fell.Given that all Jotun ruins are to the south in GW2, and even back in EoTN we never saw any Jotun ruins in the Far Shiverpeaks, why would we have found any answers to the Jotun in a place they demonstrably didn't live in?and potentially finding some non-extinct Seers.Similarly, why would there be Seers up here when nothing suggests they were ever up here?The origin of the Spirits of the Wild.The Eye of the North, who built itBoth of these are things I doubt we would ave ever gotten answers to.-Given what we know of the lore behind the Spirits, every animal, and even natural features/forces like fire, darkness, mountains, and seasons, have spirits associated with them. There is nothing to suggest that these things haven't just existed as naturally forming entities since the early days of the world. They are just entities that exist as part of the natural world.-The Eye is so old that, even back in GW1, it was established that literally no one alive knew its origin, and its design doesn't match any known race. The thing probably dates back multiple cycles, and was made by some race whose name is lost to time. They were likely drawn there by the powers of the water, as Aurene was, and as the Gods were to the Artesian Waters in Orr.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@Bast.7253 said:I think in general IBS has really just been the most disappointing though. There's so much I was expecting to see in this chapter, in this region. The cryptic stone circle regarding the facets in Valajar Fells? Is that the name? I never saw it in Guild Wars 1 but it always seemed like it could be a really cool mystery to discover in this game.That was already deciphered back in GW1, and it was talking about the dragons, and finding answers in Orr. Which vanilla covered with the Arah explorable paths.There's also the origin of Jotun and discovering potential ruins and learning more about what they were like before they fell.Given that all Jotun ruins are to the south in GW2, and even back in EoTN we never saw any Jotun ruins in the Far Shiverpeaks, why would we have found any answers to the Jotun in a place they demonstrably didn't live in?and potentially finding some non-extinct Seers.Similarly, why would there be Seers up here when nothing suggests they were ever up here?The origin of the Spirits of the Wild.The Eye of the North, who built itBoth of these are things I doubt we would ave ever gotten answers to.-Given what we know of the lore behind the Spirits, every animal, and even natural features/forces like fire, darkness, mountains, and seasons, have spirits associated with them. There is nothing to suggest that these things haven't just existed as naturally forming entities since the early days of the world. They are just entities that exist as part of the natural world.-The Eye is so old that, even back in GW1, it was established that literally no one alive knew its origin, and its design doesn't match any known race. The thing probably dates back multiple cycles, and was made by some race whose name is lost to time. They were likely drawn there by the powers of the water, as Aurene was, and as the Gods were to the Artesian Waters in Orr.

How is it talking about the Elder Dragons and Orr? I'm missing that part on the wiki.

As to the Jotun - I was referring to the places we didn't see in Guild Wars 1 that could have became zones in Guild Wars 2. We don't really know enough about them to know much about their origin or their territory.

As to the seers, we have the southern shiverpeaks. I doubt it's that unreasonable to assume there could have been further north.

I mean, I'm really just implying story building and expanding on current knowledge. I'm not sure why we have to follow the first franchise word per word or location per location. It was more or less hoping that exploring new regions in this game would allow them to dive deeper into some of those other races and some of the lore that isn't immediately impactful to the elder dragon plot. But perhaps that stuff is for further down the line.

I don't mind the elder dragon plot, it just feels like they could have tied in some of this other stuff rather than shoehorning Charr politics into the mix. But that's just a personal preference.

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@"Bast.7253" said:How is it talking about the Elder Dragons and Orr? I'm missing that part on the wiki.The message, when translated, mentions answers on distant shores of a land unwaking. That place being Orr, a distant place full of undead, which held answers to the Elder Dragons in it via the knowledge the gods collected.

Even one of the Anet devs suggested this years agohttps://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/02/guild-wars-2-interview/

Kerrsh’s quest line in Eye of the North (ending with the quest The Path to Revelations) is a hotly debated topic on the lore forums. Why are the facets of the human gods depicted as dragons? Can the gods’ cryptic message be explained in terms of Guild Wars 2?Dragons are power, and the facets reflect the nature of the power that the human gods have harnessed. Both the Asuran Central Transfer Chamber and the City of Arah were built on places of power, which turned out to be directly over Elder Dragons.It is possible that the cryptic message refers to the Dragons – “a land unwaking” could be the risen kingdom of Orr, and answers to the origin of the dragons do lie there.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok now the forums are up again, I will say what I want to say but since I already said it somewhere else I'll just copy it and add a bit more detail....

Considering both Ryland and Braham survived the explosion, I suspect the only reason they survived is because they were not connected to Primordus and Jormag on their deaths. During the battle there was dialogue explaining the plan was to sever Ryland and Braham's link to their Elder Dragons so have a chance to survive the aftermath of the Elder Dragon's death. I am curious if they maybe foreshadowing the Commander's connection with Aurene eventually being severed as well now that we know it is possible.

 

Ryland's death is the only influencing part for me as the story did build up to this moment. Ryland has always followed the shadow of someone in his entire life and all he wanted to was to prove he was not a shadow of a person. In the end he did not need to prove anything but in his mind he wanted to prove he was better than both Rytlock and Bangar to a point it became a obsession. Even by Charr culture stankittenrds, no parent should have to bury a child they love.

 

Braham surviving was unexpected as I was mostly expecting Anet to kill him off either due to satisfy Braham haters or simply to add drama to members of Dragon's Watch in the future storyline now we are reaching the end of the Elder Dragon Saga. However, Braham surviving when he was severed from his connection with Primordus did confirm a old theory I had about Champions losing their powers from their connect Elder Dragon if their connection are severed from them. This may also apply to the Commander in the future since once they move out of the Elder Dragon Saga into the new storyline for GW2 that is no longer tied to GW1 related lore, this may allow the Commander to start out more fresh on his/her new journey. However, I still am curious if there are any physical issues Braham may experience due to his exposure to Primordus' powers which may still force him to retire from Dragon's Watch since he may no longer be able to fight. Jormag and Primordus death is something I expected since the beginning of GW2.

 

If anything the storyline has followed the basic steps of most storylines being....

1) Introduce the Hero with their goal and give their first victory (Kill all Elder Dragons as the goal with Zhaitan being the first)

2) Introduce consequences for the first victory (Season 1 to HoT)

3) Seek out a solution to that consequence. (HoT)

4) Prepare the solution to work. (Season 3 to Season 4)

5) Doubt if the solution can work (Icebrood Saga)

6) The "we know it will work so lets do this" moment. (Champions)

7) Finish what they started. (Maybe End of Dragons and maybe Season 5)

 

If Jormag and Primordus remained asleep, I fully expect them to be killed off during their sleep by DSD because they are so vulnerable in that state. The main reason why I suspect every Elder Dragons will die is more due to the Final battle in the Elder Dragon Saga. With DSD expected to be the last, I fully expect that DSD has the powers of all Elder Dragons for the final fight with DSD having a hydra like battle with DSD having multiple heads representing each Elder Dragon powers.

 

As for Dragon's Watch, at this point I can't really call it Dragon's Watch anymore since the group has basically been slowly splitting up at this point. Members of the group have been split off doing their own thing and certain members already retired from Dragon's Watch being Rox moved on to be a member of the Olmakham and Kasmeer has retired from the group to become a political representative of Kryta for foreign affairs. They only appear in the storyline because their job brings them to those areas. Taimi already mentioned that her condition has gotten worse so her time is numbered and even if she manage to cure her physical illness, she may have to remain behind so she can go though continued observation for her recovery.

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12 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

This is abit of an aside but I was under the impression that IBS was Season 5.

I can't personally call it Season 5 as the story is not certain yet with what it wanted to be since, if rumors are true, they originally never intended to have Icebrood saga. We will find out after EoD if it is considered Season 5 or not. 

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15 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

I can't personally call it Season 5 as the story is not certain yet with what it wanted to be since, if rumors are true, they originally never intended to have Icebrood saga. We will find out after EoD if it is considered Season 5 or not. 

No offense, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

No offense, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Does not need to make sense since I can't really explain it. 

It will just be better to wait until after End of Dragons when they release the next Living World Season to explain things then when they confirm if Icebrood Saga is meant to be Season 5 or just some extra storyline they put in at the last moment before EoD.

Edited by EdwinLi.1284
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59 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Does not need to make sense since I can't really explain it. 

It will just be better to wait until after End of Dragons when they release the next Living World Season to explain things then when they confirm if Icebrood Saga is meant to be Season 5 or just some extra storyline they put in at the last moment before EoD.

IBS' development predated EoD, it wasn't something thrown in at the last moment.

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