Profession Mechanic for Next Thief Elite Specialization

[Game of Bones.8975]

The Thief had Steal, changing to Swipe with the Daredevil, and Deadeye's mark with the Deadeye. These all deal damage/conditions to a single target.

Sticking with that theme of affecting a single target, I think the next profession mechanic should target the opponent's non-used weapon, strapping it down preventing weapon swapping for 30-45 (or even 60) seconds.

Because Elementalists and Engineers can't weapon swap in combat, this mechanic would affect any skill that is triggered by swapping attunements or kits.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:The Thief had Steal, changing to Swipe with the Daredevil, and Deadeye's mark with the Deadeye. These all deal damage/conditions to a single target.

Sticking with that theme of affecting a single target, I think the next profession mechanic should target the opponent's non-used weapon, strapping it down preventing weapon swapping for 30-45 (or even 60) seconds.

Because Elementalists and Engineers can't weapon swap in combat, this mechanic would affect any skill that is triggered by swapping attunements or kits.

While I wouldn't mind it, there would be absolutely 0 value in PvE for such mechanism. Personally I think the probabilities are higher that thief get a gap opener instead, following this trend:

• Steal: 1200 close gap
• Swipe: 600 close gap
• Deadeye mark: 0 close gap
• [insert name]: 600/1200 gap opener

This would make the mechanism purely defensive for the first time. Beside, stealing and then get the hell out is quite a logical thing to do, isn't it?

[Astyrah.4015]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Game of Bones.8975 said:The Thief had Steal, changing to Swipe with the Daredevil, and Deadeye's mark with the Deadeye. These all deal damage/conditions to a single target.

Sticking with that theme of affecting a single target, I think the next profession mechanic should target the opponent's non-used weapon, strapping it down preventing weapon swapping for 30-45 (or even 60) seconds.

Because Elementalists and Engineers can't weapon swap in combat, this mechanic would affect any skill that is triggered by swapping attunements or kits.

While I wouldn't mind it, there would be absolutely 0 value in PvE for such mechanism. Personally I think the probabilities are higher that thief get a gap opener instead, following this trend:

• Steal: 1200 close gap
• Swipe: 600 close gap
• Deadeye mark: 0 close gap
• [insert name]: 600/1200 gap opener

This would make the mechanism purely defensive for the first time. Beside, stealing and then get the hell out is quite a logical thing to do, isn't it?

i like this idea, kinda like the reverse of what steal does for core thief. gap opener + random debuffing skill

though i can't help but think it'll be more suited to a ranged dps or ranged gameplay (i prefer it if we got a nice melee dps spec for EoD such as something with a greatsword or offhand sword)

[Dadnir.5038]

@Astyrah.4015 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:While I wouldn't mind it, there would be absolutely 0 value in PvE for such mechanism. Personally I think the probabilities are higher that thief get a gap opener instead, following this trend:

• Steal: 1200 close gap
• Swipe: 600 close gap
• Deadeye mark: 0 close gap
• [insert name]: 600/1200 gap opener

This would make the mechanism purely defensive for the first time. Beside, stealing and then get the hell out is quite a logical thing to do, isn't it?

i like this idea, kinda like the reverse of what steal does for core thief. gap opener + random debuffing skill

though i can't help but think it'll be more suited to a ranged dps or ranged gameplay (i prefer it if we got a nice melee dps spec for EoD such as something with a greatsword or offhand sword)

It probably would already work wonder with almost all core weapon combination of the thief (apart from DD) due to the fact that you either get access to a gap closer (Sword MH, D/P) or use a ranged weapon (shortbow, pistol). Which mean that any melee 2H weapon with a gap closer would do and any off-hand would have enough synergy as well.

Personally, I'd like the next e-spec to have either torch or scepter. So either an off-hand which would work anyway or a weapon which is traditionally used at mid-range. One of the aspect of the thief is it's ability to kite and neither DD nor DE really emphasize it. Sure those e-specs can use a lot of hit and run strategy but I believe it can be refined in a more specialized way.

[Game of Bones.8975]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

While I wouldn't mind it, there would be absolutely 0 value in PvE for such mechanism. Personally I think the probabilities are higher that thief get a gap opener instead, following this trend:>This would make the mechanism purely defensive for the first time. Beside, stealing and then get the hell out is quite a logical thing to do, isn't it?

I've been playing WvW for the past week and so that was what was on my mind. I'm sure if I had been working PvE as well that would have been by my focus.

[FelsPinguin.5902]

I personally think that you will be able to to shadowstep freely with the new specialization. If the new specialization would support shadowsteps in any way (e.g. extension of the range, boons/stealth after shadowstepping), this would be in line with the initiative increase on infiltrators Arrow.

[Leo G.4501]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Game of Bones.8975 said:The Thief had Steal, changing to Swipe with the Daredevil, and Deadeye's mark with the Deadeye. These all deal damage/conditions to a single target.

Sticking with that theme of affecting a single target, I think the next profession mechanic should target the opponent's non-used weapon, strapping it down preventing weapon swapping for 30-45 (or even 60) seconds.

Because Elementalists and Engineers can't weapon swap in combat, this mechanic would affect any skill that is triggered by swapping attunements or kits.

While I wouldn't mind it, there would be absolutely 0 value in PvE for such mechanism. Personally I think the probabilities are higher that thief get a gap opener instead, following this trend:

• Steal: 1200 close gap
• Swipe: 600 close gap
• Deadeye mark: 0 close gap
• [insert name]: 600/1200 gap opener

This would make the mechanism purely defensive for the first time. Beside, stealing and then get the hell out is quite a logical thing to do, isn't it?

Would this hypothetical Steal require to be within 300 range of the target? And would it be a teleport or a leap? Or could you spec it to be either or depending on your spec? Making the base gap opener a 1200 leap would be pretty amazing while the teleport could be 600 TP away from target and break stun.

Possible names: Loot?

[Astyrah.4015]

@Leo G.4501 said:And would it be a teleport or a leap?

going by core thief and daredevil, i would assume it would be a teleport (shadowstep) but there's nothing stopping arenanet from turning it into a leap (i mean this is all if the next F1 for thief would be a gap opener)

jumping/leaps look cooler while shadowstepping is faster

[borgs.6103]

Swap. - Change positions with your target. Oh the fun memes to be had.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:While I wouldn't mind it, there would be absolutely 0 value in PvE for such mechanism. Personally I think the probabilities are higher that thief get a gap opener instead, following this trend:

• Steal: 1200 close gap
• Swipe: 600 close gap
• Deadeye mark: 0 close gap
• [insert name]: 600/1200 gap opener

This would make the mechanism purely defensive for the first time. Beside, stealing and then get the hell out is quite a logical thing to do, isn't it?

Would this hypothetical Steal require to be within 300 range of the target? And would it be a teleport or a leap? Or could you spec it to be either or depending on your spec? Making the base gap opener a 1200 leap would be pretty amazing while the teleport could be 600 TP away from target and break stun.

Possible names: Loot?

Let's not get ahead of ourselve, there is no way devs would be this generous. Personally, what I envisionned was more something like mesmer's phase retreat, so a teleport, with a "steal" range of 180 or 120. movement of the gap opener either 600, 900 or 1200 would be fiting in my opinion.

"Pilfer" might be nice as well as a name. "Loot" might be a word that see a bit to much use in gaming term already.

[Fueki.4753]

If the next Elite Specialization turned out to be support, I'd like Steal to be replaced by a 10 target support ability without any movement involved at all.

[hatsamu.4327]

But besides the F1, wouldn't there be a new main mechanic as well? The function of deadeye mark is to serve the malice mechanic, and daredevil didn't even launch with a different F1. There are parts of the class that haven't been touched by elite specs yet, so maybe like altered initiative or a mechanic enhancing dual-wield skills.

@Fueki.4753 said:If the next Elite Specialization turned out to be support, I'd like Steal to be replaced by a 10 target support ability without any movement involved at all.

Even if it's a support skill it would probably still need to affect enemies, could be an aoe damage pulse maybe, otherwise a bunch of Steal-related traits wouldn't work.

[Game of Bones.8975]

How about a Steal ability that grabs from an AoE filling F2-F4?

[Yasai.3549]

I think a unique mechanic for next Espec would be to give a more unique Area control style "Steal"The thief will be able to cast their "Steal" and drop a "mine" which triggers when enemies step into it, applying Steal's effects to 1 target, while stripping boons from 4 other enemies.

This "mine" will then become an Area which pulses out Heals to allies and Damage to enemies based on how many enemies were hit.Range : 900Radius : 450Targets : 5Target affected by Steal traits : 1Boon removed per target : 1Base pulses : 1Additional pulse : 1 per target hitHeal per pulse : 500 (0.6)Damage per pulse : 140 (0.4)Cooldown : 20s PvE, 30s PvP, 50s WvW

I mean alot of people want a support for next Espec, so something like this will be fitting.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Steal now causes a aoe pulse around thief at 450 radius the pulses 3x quickly inflicting poison, bleed and vulnerability while stealing up to 2x boons from afflicted enemies which are also given to teammates. Now that be a good teamfight mechanic lol.

[serow.6524]

Since my wish for the next elite spec is a Dancer support type who uses stances, I hope the Dancer mechanic gives a few different types of dances which has different effects to the targets that the Dancer passes by when active.eg. Dance 1 lasts for 5 secs, all friendlies that the Dancer moves past gains x effect; Dance 2 lasts for 5 secs, all enemies that the Dancer moves past gains y debuff, etc

It's sorta like the Necro who gains a buncha new Function buttons when specced as Scourge.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@"Yasai.3549" said:I think a unique mechanic for next Espec would be to give a more unique Area control style "Steal"The thief will be able to cast their "Steal" and drop a "mine" which triggers when enemies step into it, applying Steal's effects to 1 target, while stripping boons from 4 other enemies.

This "mine" will then become an Area which pulses out Heals to allies and Damage to enemies based on how many enemies were hit.Range : 900Radius : 450Targets : 5Target affected by Steal traits : 1Boon removed per target : 1Base pulses : 1Additional pulse : 1 per target hitHeal per pulse : 500 (0.6)Damage per pulse : 140 (0.4)Cooldown : 20s PvE, 30s PvP, 50s WvW

I mean alot of people want a support for next Espec, so something like this will be fitting.

I like to believe, and I believe, that the next specialization for thief will be duelist -focused. Steal will be replaced by something akin to Mirror Stance from Guild Wars 1; a melee-centric Death Mark -esque class mechanic that copies flavours and traits from other professions it's used on.

Mirror Stance would give thief a building thematic not unlike soulbeast. If used on a warrior, you gain access to skills like Siphon Strength; thief: Siphon Speed; etc.

[Game of Bones.8975]

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

I like to believe, and I believe, that the next specialization for thief will be duelist -focused. Steal will be replaced by something akin to Mirror Stance from Guild Wars 1; a melee-centric Death Mark -esque class mechanic that copies flavours and traits from other professions it's used on.

Mirror Stance would give thief a building thematic not unlike soulbeast. If used on a warrior, you gain access to skills like Siphon Strength; thief: Siphon Speed; etc.

Do all monsters in PvE have an equivalent profession to "mirror"?

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

I like to believe, and I believe, that the next specialization for thief will be duelist -focused. Steal will be replaced by something akin to Mirror Stance from Guild Wars 1; a melee-centric Death Mark -esque class mechanic that copies flavours and traits from other professions it's used on.

Mirror Stance would give thief a building thematic not unlike soulbeast. If used on a warrior, you gain access to skills like Siphon Strength; thief: Siphon Speed; etc.

Do all monsters in PvE have an equivalent profession to "mirror"?

If we go by their stolen skills, Yes.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

I like to believe, and I believe, that the next specialization for thief will be duelist -focused. Steal will be replaced by something akin to Mirror Stance from Guild Wars 1; a melee-centric Death Mark -esque class mechanic that copies flavours and traits from other professions it's used on.

Mirror Stance would give thief a building thematic not unlike soulbeast. If used on a warrior, you gain access to skills like Siphon Strength; thief: Siphon Speed; etc.

Do all monsters in PvE have an equivalent profession to "mirror"?

I'm not sure litterally mirroring stance is exactly what NorthernRedStar meant. I'm pretty sure they think more along the line of getting a "stance" bundle out of steal based on the target stolen from. For example, If we go with aura as stances, it would give something like:

• Elementalist: Heaven stance: Gain shock aura (4s)
• Engineer: Loadstone stance: Gain shock aura (4s)
• Guardian; Dawn stance: Gain light aura (4s)
• Mesmer: Chaotic stance: Gain chaos aura (4s)
• Necromancer: Dusk stance: Gain Dark aura (4s)
• Ranger: Winter stance: Gain Frost aura (4s)
• Thief: Night stance: Gain stealth (4s)
• Revenant: Everchanging stance: Gain random aura (4s)
• Warrior: Warmonger stance: Gain fire aura (4s)

ANet can then "assign" field attribute to mobs in PvE:

• Death attribute/Zaithan minions: Gain dark aura (4s)
• Fire attribute/Primordius minions: Gain Fire aura (4s)
• Ice attribute/Jormag minions: Gain frost aura (4s)
• ... Etc.

You can then have major traits that give stat points when you are under the effect of an aura, maybe a trait that increase aura duration, maybe traits that give the thief specific boons whenever he gain an aura, an aurashare trait... etc.

Could have great synergy with Tempest support. Only real issue in PvE would be a the loss of the Raid/strike boss specific stolen item. Personally I think it could "work".

[Leo G.4501]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:I think a unique mechanic for next Espec would be to give a more unique Area control style "Steal"The thief will be able to cast their "Steal" and drop a "mine" which triggers when enemies step into it, applying Steal's effects to 1 target, while stripping boons from 4 other enemies.

This "mine" will then become an Area which pulses out Heals to allies and Damage to enemies based on how many enemies were hit.Range : 900Radius : 450Targets : 5Target affected by Steal traits : 1Boon removed per target : 1Base pulses : 1Additional pulse : 1 per target hitHeal per pulse : 500 (0.6)Damage per pulse : 140 (0.4)Cooldown : 20s PvE, 30s PvP, 50s WvW

I mean alot of people want a support for next Espec, so something like this will be fitting.

I like to believe, and I believe, that the next specialization for thief will be duelist -focused. Steal will be replaced by something akin to Mirror Stance from Guild Wars 1; a melee-centric Death Mark -esque class mechanic that copies flavours and traits from other professions it's used on.

Mirror Stance would give thief a building thematic not unlike soulbeast. If used on a warrior, you gain access to skills like Siphon Strength; thief: Siphon Speed; etc.

Or what if they played with stealth and just made you straight up impersonate your enemy? So any team beneficial effects your enemy would buff their side with is shared with you while making you immune to their offensive effects as if you were allies.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:I think a unique mechanic for next Espec would be to give a more unique Area control style "Steal"The thief will be able to cast their "Steal" and drop a "mine" which triggers when enemies step into it, applying Steal's effects to 1 target, while stripping boons from 4 other enemies.

This "mine" will then become an Area which pulses out Heals to allies and Damage to enemies based on how many enemies were hit.Range : 900Radius : 450Targets : 5Target affected by Steal traits : 1Boon removed per target : 1Base pulses : 1Additional pulse : 1 per target hitHeal per pulse : 500 (0.6)Damage per pulse : 140 (0.4)Cooldown : 20s PvE, 30s PvP, 50s WvW

I mean alot of people want a support for next Espec, so something like this will be fitting.

I like to believe, and I believe, that the next specialization for thief will be duelist -focused. Steal will be replaced by something akin to Mirror Stance from Guild Wars 1; a melee-centric Death Mark -esque class mechanic that copies flavours and traits from other professions it's used on.

Mirror Stance would give thief a building thematic not unlike soulbeast. If used on a warrior, you gain access to skills like Siphon Strength; thief: Siphon Speed; etc.

Or what if they played with stealth and just made you straight up impersonate your enemy? So any team beneficial effects your enemy would buff their side with is shared with you while making you immune to their offensive effects as if you were allies.

That would be so sweet, like for 20 secs u look like teammate to the enemy lol, could be called the Infiltrator.

[Yasai.3549]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Or what if they played with stealth and just made you straight up impersonate your enemy? So any team beneficial effects your enemy would buff their side with is shared with you while making you immune to their offensive effects as if you were allies.

That would be so sweet, like for 20 secs u look like teammate to the enemy lol, could be called the Infiltrator.

Off the bat, it's never gonna happen because the WvW scene is not going to accept the existence of a Spy-like Thief Espec to portal people into keeps.Even if it's 20s, it's plenty of time for a Thief to wait out the zerg leaving a freshly capped Keep in plain sight before hiding while marked wears off.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Or what if they played with stealth and just made you straight up impersonate your enemy? So any team beneficial effects your enemy would buff their side with is shared with you while making you immune to their offensive effects as if you were allies.

That would be so sweet, like for 20 secs u look like teammate to the enemy lol, could be called the Infiltrator.

Off the bat, it's never gonna happen because the WvW scene is not going to accept the existence of a Spy-like Thief Espec to portal people into keeps.Even if it's 20s, it's plenty of time for a Thief to wait out the zerg leaving a freshly capped Keep in plain sight before hiding while marked wears off.

I know right,id be crazy for a Infiltrator to be able to infiltrate things lol. Just make Portal unusable for anyone but thief, should been that way from start. Porting allies should always been a mesmer only thing anyway.

[Leo G.4501]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Or what if they played with stealth and just made you straight up impersonate your enemy? So any team beneficial effects your enemy would buff their side with is shared with you while making you immune to their offensive effects as if you were allies.

That would be so sweet, like for 20 secs u look like teammate to the enemy lol, could be called the Infiltrator.

Off the bat, it's never gonna happen because the WvW scene is not going to accept the existence of a Spy-like Thief Espec to portal people into keeps.Even if it's 20s, it's plenty of time for a Thief to wait out the zerg leaving a freshly capped Keep in plain sight before hiding while marked wears off.

Yeah, it was kinda just a random idea. But expanding on that, if this effect replaced stealth (so you no longer get to go unseen) could be the trade-off.