Don't like the POF expansion area's very much.

[Maikimaik.1974]

@"Joote.4081" said:The game hides a great amount of stuff from the player. This could be because of the sheer amount of stuff A-net add is to much to bother educating the player about. When I refer to the amount of stuff I mean for the most part useless fluff and fillers. Take key's for example, there are 10 thousand different keys that generally do the same thing. This filling is added to give the impression of complexity, when in truth all that it does is bog the game down and confuses players, especially new players.Crafting materials are another example. You have a massive amounts of ingredients most of which don't make sense. They don't make sense as it adds to the illusion of complexity.

The new content is a massive time sink, it was built with this in mind. It's to slow the player down so as not to see all there is to see to quickly. The trick is to fool the player into thinking this is necessary.

I don't know if you're new to the genre, but many MMORPGs kinda rely on wikis.If you stumble across something you want to know more about, you can type "/wiki" in the chat and shift-click the item. This will open your browser with the wiki page for that item.This game is 9 years old and contains an insane amount of content. I'd argue that it effectively has even more content than WoW, as most of WoW's content is obsolete. Pretty much every single content update Gw2 has ever received is still more or less relevant today (excluding temporary events of course).Of course there are many different currencies. Of course there are many different mats, keys chests etc., but you don't have to know all those things. Every single MMO I have ever played has been somewhat overwhelming at first, that's just kind of part of the genre. And frankly, that's also why I'm such a huge MMO fan, and why I especially love Gw2. I've spent thousands of hours playing this game, and there is still so much left for me to discover. The complexity of Gw2 is not an illusion, not more than any other MMO out there. Yes, some materials have very niche uses, but just because you're not interested in using them doesn't mean they don't make sense.

[Joote.4081]

@Maikimaik.1974 said:

@"Joote.4081" said:The game hides a great amount of stuff from the player. This could be because of the sheer amount of stuff A-net add is to much to bother educating the player about. When I refer to the amount of stuff I mean for the most part useless fluff and fillers. Take key's for example, there are 10 thousand different keys that generally do the same thing. This filling is added to give the impression of complexity, when in truth all that it does is bog the game down and confuses players, especially new players.Crafting materials are another example. You have a massive amounts of ingredients most of which don't make sense. They don't make sense as it adds to the illusion of complexity.

The new content is a massive time sink, it was built with this in mind. It's to slow the player down so as not to see all there is to see to quickly. The trick is to fool the player into thinking this is necessary.

I don't know if you're new to the genre, but many MMORPGs kinda rely on wikis.If you stumble across something you want to know more about, you can type "/wiki" in the chat and shift-click the item. This will open your browser with the wiki page for that item.This game is 9 years old and contains an insane amount of content. I'd argue that it effectively has even more content than WoW, as most of WoW's content is obsolete. Pretty much every single content update Gw2 has

ever

received is still more or less relevant today (excluding temporary events of course).Of course there are many different currencies. Of course there are many different mats, keys chests etc., but you don't have to know all those things. Every single MMO I have ever played has been somewhat overwhelming at first, that's just kind of part of the genre. And frankly, that's also why I'm such a huge MMO fan, and why I especially love Gw2. I've spent thousands of hours playing this game, and there is still

so much

left for me to discover. The complexity of Gw2 is not an illusion, not more than any other MMO out there. Yes, some materials have very niche uses, but just because you're not interested in using them doesn't mean they don't make sense.

True. and of course the longer you play, the complexity that might have been a hindrance in the first year becomes a virtue.I played the game solid in the first few years of release but then left for many years. When I came back to the game it felt like it was my first time and the complexity was a little overwhelming, so I imagine how it feels for a player trying it out for the very first time.What I'm saying is a great deal of the content is unnecessary but I can understand why they make it so. How do you keep your long term player base happy while at the same time encourage new players? It must be something of a juggling act.

[Joote.4081]

@Maikimaik.1974 said:

@"Joote.4081" said:The game hides a great amount of stuff from the player. This could be because of the sheer amount of stuff A-net add is to much to bother educating the player about. When I refer to the amount of stuff I mean for the most part useless fluff and fillers. Take key's for example, there are 10 thousand different keys that generally do the same thing. This filling is added to give the impression of complexity, when in truth all that it does is bog the game down and confuses players, especially new players.Crafting materials are another example. You have a massive amounts of ingredients most of which don't make sense. They don't make sense as it adds to the illusion of complexity.

The new content is a massive time sink, it was built with this in mind. It's to slow the player down so as not to see all there is to see to quickly. The trick is to fool the player into thinking this is necessary.

I don't know if you're new to the genre, but many MMORPGs kinda rely on wikis.If you stumble across something you want to know more about, you can type "/wiki" in the chat and shift-click the item. This will open your browser with the wiki page for that item.This game is 9 years old and contains an insane amount of content. I'd argue that it effectively has even more content than WoW, as most of WoW's content is obsolete. Pretty much every single content update Gw2 has

ever

received is still more or less relevant today (excluding temporary events of course).Of course there are many different currencies. Of course there are many different mats, keys chests etc., but you don't have to know all those things. Every single MMO I have ever played has been somewhat overwhelming at first, that's just kind of part of the genre. And frankly, that's also why I'm such a huge MMO fan, and why I especially love Gw2. I've spent thousands of hours playing this game, and there is still

so much

left for me to discover. The complexity of Gw2 is not an illusion, not more than any other MMO out there. Yes, some materials have very niche uses, but just because you're not interested in using them doesn't mean they don't make sense.

Ha! I must have 15 or more wiki pages open in my browser covering everything. I read some stuff then drop into the game to experiment.I feel people read this post and get the wrong idea. This was about the how I felt about the expansion maps were a bit poo, nothing else. Then I went on to describe stuff within the maps that was drawing me to that conclusion.Thing is I can take down a boss or mob as well as most, what I'm trying to say here is that it isn't fun. I get shot of my mount or jumped by something 2 miles away, I fight and kill the little **d, but it isn't fun. It's not hard, it's unfair ,making it unfun.Since opening this post years ago, the HOT's map has grown on me, but I still can't enjoy POF.

[Joote.4081]

@Atomos.7593 said:I just started HoT again on my engineer and most of the maps do feel so much better than PoF in my opinion. Exploration in the HoT maps with a skyscale that has all the masteries unlocked feels so much more fun to me than in the PoF maps. The multiple levels/layers of zones in the HoT maps means I keep discovering new areas and things that I had previously missed during my time there.

Looks as your going through the same experience as me. You know they will tweak POF until it hits the pleasure bone. Same as they did with HOT's. One does not create another silver wastes overnight. :)

[Mickey.4207]

I did a little happy dance when I finished HOT. It was the most frustrating gaming experience for me. I haven't been there since I finished it a month ago other than occassional dragon stand meta and I don't miss it. I prefer POF exploration and I can finally solo hero points without begging in general for help only to be ignored.

[Rex.3602]

@Joote.4081 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:I just started HoT again on my engineer and most of the maps do feel so much better than PoF in my opinion. Exploration in the HoT maps with a skyscale that has all the masteries unlocked feels so much more fun to me than in the PoF maps. The multiple levels/layers of zones in the HoT maps means I keep discovering new areas and things that I had previously missed during my time there.

Looks as your going through the same experience as me. You know they will tweak POF until it hits the pleasure bone. Same as they did with HOT's. One does not create another silver wastes overnight. :)

I played through the PoF maps with the engineer again and most of them still don't appeal to me much. Most of it is just the map design I guess. It isn't awful, but not that great either. Other than the Elon Riverlands, the rest of the maps were forgettable to me.

I happened to also being playing in Thanalan in Final Fantasy XIV around the same time and that area in FFXIV does desert-style maps much better in my opinion. The rest of the GW2 maps, generally speaking, are great though.

[Joote.4081]

@Atomos.7593 said:

@Joote.4081 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:I just started HoT again on my engineer and most of the maps do feel so much better than PoF in my opinion. Exploration in the HoT maps with a skyscale that has all the masteries unlocked feels so much more fun to me than in the PoF maps. The multiple levels/layers of zones in the HoT maps means I keep discovering new areas and things that I had previously missed during my time there.

Looks as your going through the same experience as me. You know they will tweak POF until it hits the pleasure bone. Same as they did with HOT's. One does not create another silver wastes overnight. :)

I played through the PoF maps with the engineer again and most of them still don't appeal to me much. Most of it is just the map design I guess. It isn't awful, but not that great either. Other than the Elon Riverlands, the rest of the maps were forgettable to me.

I happened to also being playing in Thanalan in Final Fantasy XIV around the same time and that area in FFXIV does desert-style maps much better in my opinion. The rest of the GW2 maps, generally speaking, are great though.

I too am putting a few hours into FFXIV. It's a good game if not a bit of a slog. I must be some sort of MMO junkie as I have 3 going at once, GW3. FFXIV and TESO. I mostly play GW2 though. GW2 is the sort of game you can jump in and get right to the action, so that makes it perfect for long and short term sessions.

[Rex.3602]

@Joote.4081 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:

@Joote.4081 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:I just started HoT again on my engineer and most of the maps do feel so much better than PoF in my opinion. Exploration in the HoT maps with a skyscale that has all the masteries unlocked feels so much more fun to me than in the PoF maps. The multiple levels/layers of zones in the HoT maps means I keep discovering new areas and things that I had previously missed during my time there.

Looks as your going through the same experience as me. You know they will tweak POF until it hits the pleasure bone. Same as they did with HOT's. One does not create another silver wastes overnight. :)

I played through the PoF maps with the engineer again and most of them still don't appeal to me much. Most of it is just the map design I guess. It isn't awful, but not that great either. Other than the Elon Riverlands, the rest of the maps were forgettable to me.

I happened to also being playing in Thanalan in Final Fantasy XIV around the same time and that area in FFXIV does desert-style maps much better in my opinion. The rest of the GW2 maps, generally speaking, are great though.

I too am putting a few hours into FFXIV. It's a good game if not a bit of a slog. I must be some sort of MMO junkie as I have 3 going at once, GW3. FFXIV and TESO. I mostly play GW2 though. GW2 is the sort of game you can jump in and get right to the action, so that makes it perfect for long and short term sessions.

Hehe I am playing all 3 of them at once too. =) They are all good in different ways.

However, what makes exploring maps especially great for GW2, in my opinion, are the mounts. The mounts are something very unique in the MMO industry. You may, like me, even find yourself going back to explore through maps you like less than the others in the game again, just because the mounts are so fun to use.

[frareanselm.1925]

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Joote.4081 said:I have nothing against desert or jungle areas it's just I don't think HOT nor POF were designed with a mmo play style in mind. More like something you might expect from a single player exploration game.

That I fully disagree with. HoT is entirely designed around multiplay far more than solo play with group events, group hero points, stringer mobs etc. Dragons Stand alone is clearly not a solo map. It is very mmo

HoT is still pretty well populated for that very reason whilst PoF is a lot sparser because it is more solo orientated - or less geared to repeatable content

Ultimately the reductions in population are due to the spread of people to a lot of game areas and a focus on newer content.

But baffled by the Grenade launcher issue - not heard that complaint before. Can you elaborate?

The grenade issue is: how vines can have the intelligence to target you and throw you attacks? Like every damn living being wants to kill you, its very annoying. Next step will be the grass will poison you.

[Follyfoot.2803]

@Atomos.7593 said:

@Joote.4081 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:

@Joote.4081 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:I just started HoT again on my engineer and most of the maps do feel so much better than PoF in my opinion. Exploration in the HoT maps with a skyscale that has all the masteries unlocked feels so much more fun to me than in the PoF maps. The multiple levels/layers of zones in the HoT maps means I keep discovering new areas and things that I had previously missed during my time there.

Looks as your going through the same experience as me. You know they will tweak POF until it hits the pleasure bone. Same as they did with HOT's. One does not create another silver wastes overnight. :)

I played through the PoF maps with the engineer again and most of them still don't appeal to me much. Most of it is just the map design I guess. It isn't awful, but not that great either. Other than the Elon Riverlands, the rest of the maps were forgettable to me.

I happened to also being playing in Thanalan in Final Fantasy XIV around the same time and that area in FFXIV does desert-style maps much better in my opinion. The rest of the GW2 maps, generally speaking, are great though.

I too am putting a few hours into FFXIV. It's a good game if not a bit of a slog. I must be some sort of MMO junkie as I have 3 going at once, GW3. FFXIV and TESO. I mostly play GW2 though. GW2 is the sort of game you can jump in and get right to the action, so that makes it perfect for long and short term sessions.

Hehe I am playing all 3 of them at once too. =) They are all good in different ways.

However, what makes exploring maps especially great for GW2, in my opinion, are the mounts. The mounts are something very unique in the MMO industry. You may, like me, even find yourself going back to explore through maps you like less than the others in the game again, just because the mounts are so fun to use.

Totally agree. Mounts took a bog standard mmo and turned it into a joy. And, they didn't just stick in a pony that comes in 10 different colours, they gave us one of the best mounts every created in any game. They get the full 5 stars for that little beauty, no make that 6 stars.

[Randulf.7614]

@frareanselm.1925 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Joote.4081 said:I have nothing against desert or jungle areas it's just I don't think HOT nor POF were designed with a mmo play style in mind. More like something you might expect from a single player exploration game.

That I fully disagree with. HoT is entirely designed around multiplay far more than solo play with group events, group hero points, stringer mobs etc. Dragons Stand alone is clearly not a solo map. It is very mmo

HoT is still pretty well populated for that very reason whilst PoF is a lot sparser because it is more solo orientated - or less geared to repeatable content

Ultimately the reductions in population are due to the spread of people to a lot of game areas and a focus on newer content.

But baffled by the Grenade launcher issue - not heard that complaint before. Can you elaborate?

The grenade issue is: how vines can have the intelligence to target you and throw you attacks? Like every kitten living being wants to kill you, its very annoying. Next step will be the grass will poison you.

If memory serves, the vines are part of Mordremoth itself. So whilst no individual intelligence, they are growths that ultimately either come from it or controlled by it or its corruption. Plus, in a world governed by magic and weird happenings, it's not really beyond the realms of believability for flora to be able to attack people by sensing them not being Mordrem

[Joote.4081]

Another day in the desert and another day of frustration. You know you can't even talk to a npc or use a merchant without some bug or whatnot attacking you. It's beyond awful. I'm trying to listen to what someone is telling me, not a chance in POF. What they are saying is drowned out by bug farts or some fool bad guy telling me how he's going to kill me.Everywhere you go, everything you do and there is something on your a***. What was it they were trying to do here? Well it didn't work.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Joote.4081 said:Another day in the desert and another day of frustration. You know you can't even talk to a npc or use a merchant without some bug or whatnot attacking you. It's beyond awful. I'm trying to listen to what someone is telling me, not a chance in POF. What they are saying is drowned out by bug farts or some fool bad guy telling me how he's going to kill me.Everywhere you go, everything you do and there is something on your a***. What was it they were trying to do here? Well it didn't work.

But...but...somebody might be able to ride through mounted without being dismounted!

[Maikimaik.1974]

@Joote.4081 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:I just started HoT again on my engineer and most of the maps do feel so much better than PoF in my opinion. Exploration in the HoT maps with a skyscale that has all the masteries unlocked feels so much more fun to me than in the PoF maps. The multiple levels/layers of zones in the HoT maps means I keep discovering new areas and things that I had previously missed during my time there.

Looks as your going through the same experience as me. You know they will tweak POF until it hits the pleasure bone. Same as they did with HOT's. One does not create another silver wastes overnight. :)

@Joote.4081 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:I just started HoT again on my engineer and most of the maps do feel so much better than PoF in my opinion. Exploration in the HoT maps with a skyscale that has all the masteries unlocked feels so much more fun to me than in the PoF maps. The multiple levels/layers of zones in the HoT maps means I keep discovering new areas and things that I had previously missed during my time there.

Looks as your going through the same experience as me. You know they will tweak POF until it hits the pleasure bone. Same as they did with HOT's. One does not create another silver wastes overnight. :)

PoF has been out for three and a half years now, I highly doubt there will be any tweaking anymore.

[Joote.4081]

Just one instance: I'm trying to do the quests, role-play the little valley between the Oasis and the Riverland's. Every time I tried to talk with a NPC I was targeted by a missile, had a fool spawn next to me and start mouthing off, or a stray pig would wander up from 2 miles down the road and bite me. I gave up in the end and moved on. You try to talk with any heart in the desert and you can guarantee that you will be joined by a couple of sand worms and/or a few fart bugs. And that's if your lucky.That was one instance of far to many.The overbearing detection ranges don't work. I have learned, as probably everyone else has by now that you can always stay in the saddle by leaping at the right time.

I've mostly coved the POF maps now and can see that it could so easily become a favourite if only they would take it back to the table and make a few alterations and fixes.

[BlueJin.4127]

Joote, Aliam, and Maiki, I thought you were quoting and talking to yourself, then I realized it was 3 users with the same avatar. XD

And, yes, PoF aggro range is awful. It’s like you’re trying to eat at a restaurant with flies constantly buzzing around you.

[Joote.4081]

@BlueJin.4127 said:Joote, Aliam, and Maiki, I thought you were quoting and talking to yourself, then I realized it was 3 users with the same avatar. XD

And, yes, PoF aggro range is awful. It’s like you’re trying to eat at a restaurant with flies constantly buzzing around you.

We are all members of the skritt lovers fan club.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@BlueJin.4127 said:Joote, Aliam, and Maiki, I thought you were quoting and talking to yourself, then I realized it was 3 users with the same avatar. XD

And, yes, PoF aggro range is awful. It’s like you’re trying to eat at a restaurant with flies constantly buzzing around you.

I had this avatar first! These others are imposters!

Having said that, this is one complaint I've had since PoF released. The aggro range is simply obnoxious and completely unnecessary. If this is such a necessary thing, why is it not necessary in earlier content? If being threatened while mounted is so critical to gameplay, why introduce the skyscale and griffon, which can simply fly over enemies? Why give us a skill for 8s mounted stealth on a short cooldown? Why allow us to refill our endurance bar? Bypassing trash mobs in open world using mounts was already trivial before all of these additions.

So what exactly is the purpose of the obnoxious aggro range in PoF/LS4? Apparently, it's to ensure that you're harassed at waypoints, vendors, and other inappropriate places. And don't even think about stopping to farm those worthless lentils because you're going to have to fight every stupid forged sniper, jacaranda, and iboga within 50 square miles of your position! Just...why??

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

For me, still like often said: I dislike PoF areas because they are overcrowded with foes in every little corners. So yes, of course, we can kill again and again. And yes, of course too, we can fly with skyscale over the area. But the killing at each step is by far too boring to me, and flying over is for me not really exploring. I simply gave up enjoying free explorable there a long while ago. I return to those areas only for specific objectives.

[The Fear.3865]

@Joote.4081 said:For me the 2 new area's that come with the expansions, Heart of thorns and Path of fire both suffer from the same problems.1 - To maze like, so everything is stop and start.2 - Trash mobs are to spread out, meaning you can't walk 2 steps without falling over a killer worm or something.3 - Things detect you from really far away and are stitched together, pull one, pull ten.4 - The thing I dislike the most is that the majority of the creatures have grenade launchers. Who thought that would be fun? It started with Heart of thorns with those bloody annoying vines spamming grenades on you continuously.

That is exactly why these maps are the best, especially hot ones.

If kaineng city is not a maze, trust me I instant uninstal the game.

[Joote.4081]

@Dreamy Lu.3865 said:For me, still like often said: I dislike PoF areas because they are overcrowded with foes in every little corners. So yes, of course, we can kill again and again. And yes, of course too, we can fly with skyscale over the area. But the killing at each step is by far too boring to me, and flying over is for me not really exploring. I simply gave up enjoying free explorable there a long while ago. I return to those areas only for specific objectives.

Exactly my point. It could be so good but spoiled for no other reason but to spoil it. It would be very interesting to hear from the dev's their reasons for making it like this. We have already covered the 'to disrupt mounts' theory. That for one doesn't work and secondly if it did it would only enrage and frustrate the player.Only the other night I wanted somewhere safe to alter my skills. Nowhere in the desert was safe so I tried a waypoint. No good, I was jumped on straight away. In the end I warped back to the city and to no surprise the city came under attack. :)Whatever their reason it must be a strong one to keep it in such a sorry state.

[Mickey.4207]

@Joote.4081 said:Another day in the desert and another day of frustration. You know you can't even talk to a npc or use a merchant without some bug or whatnot attacking you. It's beyond awful. I'm trying to listen to what someone is telling me, not a chance in POF. What they are saying is drowned out by bug farts or some fool bad guy telling me how he's going to kill me.Everywhere you go, everything you do and there is something on your a***. What was it they were trying to do here? Well it didn't work.

Yesterday in desert highland all I wanted to do was chop a tree for mats but somehow aggroed the entire island. That's POF gameplay in nutshell. Lol

[Joote.4081]

This morning I wanted to buy gems. I stopped at 3 different camps in POF and each time I was interrupted while trying to enter my details. These long range detecting creatures are costing A-net money.

[Abelisk.5148]

One big issue I have with some of the maps is there's too much clutter. Dunkey made a video on a topic similar to this saying how too many details on the screen obscures the goal a player has in mind. HoT maps contain way too much foliage and platforming that makes it stressful to navigate from point A to point B. The masteries and glider don't solve that issue.

[mungozen.2379]

@Joote.4081 said:This morning I wanted to buy gems. I stopped at 3 different camps in POF and each time I was interrupted while trying to enter my details. These long range detecting creatures are costing A-net money.

You mean to say you wanted to buy Gems from the BLTC and stopped in an area where mobs could attack you? Repeatedly? If you want to be annoyed by the mobs then definitely go to places where they are and they will annoy you. If you want to browse the Gem Store or BLTC, you might find it easier to do so in a safe area. As you have proven, just because you are in a camp doesn't mean that it is a safe area.