Don't like the POF expansion area's very much.

[Joote.4081]

@Mungo Zen.9364 said:I am of the mind that this game is really easy including the HoT and PoF areas. Yes there is a jump in difficulty from Core to HoT and PoF but, Core has also gotten easier over the past 5 years so new players might not experience their first real challenge until the Expansion areas.

This game has been designed with all the tools a player needs to be successful in any zone. If the game is too hard then perhaps you aren’t using the tools provided to you in a way that will find you success.

I point to meme builds such as Bearbow Ranger as being very common build that rarely uses the Ranger tools to good effect. A lot of players gravitate towards this playstyle without understanding that it will potentially be harder using a sub optimal build for the content you are playing.

That doesn’t mean using a meta build is at all required, but it does mean knowing what you need from your profession when going to different parts of the game world.

Oh I'm not saying it's hard, after all it is a level 80 zone. What I'm saying in a tea cup if I dare, is that it's a tad boring. Not because of the map biome but more down to it's layout, design and monster placement, spamming plus overbearing skill set .

[maddoctor.2738]

@Joote.4081 said:

@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:I am of the mind that this game is really easy including the HoT and PoF areas. Yes there is a jump in difficulty from Core to HoT and PoF but, Core has also gotten easier over the past 5 years so new players might not experience their first real challenge until the Expansion areas.

This game has been designed with all the tools a player needs to be successful in any zone. If the game is too hard then perhaps you aren’t using the tools provided to you in a way that will find you success.

I point to meme builds such as Bearbow Ranger as being very common build that rarely uses the Ranger tools to good effect. A lot of players gravitate towards this playstyle without understanding that it will potentially be harder using a sub optimal build for the content you are playing.

That doesn’t mean using a meta build is at all required, but it does mean knowing what you need from your profession when going to different parts of the game world.

Oh I'm not saying it's hard, after all it is a level 80 zone. What I'm saying in a tea cup if I dare, is that it's a tad boring. Not because of the map biome but more down to it's layout, design and monster placement, spamming plus overbearing skill set .

I find it interesting that you find a map with actual enemies to fight "boring". Then what about the core maps were you barely press any buttons and everything just disappears?

[Mungo Zen.9364]

@Joote.4081 said:

@Mungo Zen.9364 said:I am of the mind that this game is really easy including the HoT and PoF areas. Yes there is a jump in difficulty from Core to HoT and PoF but, Core has also gotten easier over the past 5 years so new players might not experience their first real challenge until the Expansion areas.

This game has been designed with all the tools a player needs to be successful in any zone. If the game is too hard then perhaps you aren’t using the tools provided to you in a way that will find you success.

I point to meme builds such as Bearbow Ranger as being very common build that rarely uses the Ranger tools to good effect. A lot of players gravitate towards this playstyle without understanding that it will potentially be harder using a sub optimal build for the content you are playing.

That doesn’t mean using a meta build is at all required, but it does mean knowing what you need from your profession when going to different parts of the game world.

Oh I'm not saying it's hard, after all it is a level 80 zone. What I'm saying in a tea cup if I dare, is that it's a tad boring. Not because of the map biome but more down to it's layout, design and monster placement, spamming plus overbearing skill set .

You just called HoT and PoF boring???

What do you want from this game? As in, how would you adjust the game to suit your preference given the complaints you raised in this thread?

[Crono.4197]

Some people say the love core maps but hate expansion ones.Some people say they love HoT maps and not PoF ones.Some people say they love PoF maps and not HoT maps.And then there's me, who loves all of them xD

Different people, different tastes. That doesn't mean the maps are bad. What can I say, Arenanet can't satisfy everyone I guess.

[Joote.4081]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Joote.4081 said:

@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:I am of the mind that this game is really easy including the HoT and PoF areas. Yes there is a jump in difficulty from Core to HoT and PoF but, Core has also gotten easier over the past 5 years so new players might not experience their first real challenge until the Expansion areas.

This game has been designed with all the tools a player needs to be successful in any zone. If the game is too hard then perhaps you aren’t using the tools provided to you in a way that will find you success.

I point to meme builds such as Bearbow Ranger as being very common build that rarely uses the Ranger tools to good effect. A lot of players gravitate towards this playstyle without understanding that it will potentially be harder using a sub optimal build for the content you are playing.

That doesn’t mean using a meta build is at all required, but it does mean knowing what you need from your profession when going to different parts of the game world.

Oh I'm not saying it's hard, after all it is a level 80 zone. What I'm saying in a tea cup if I dare, is that it's a tad boring. Not because of the map biome but more down to it's layout, design and monster placement, spamming plus overbearing skill set .

I find it interesting that you find a map with actual enemies to fight "boring". Then what about the core maps were you barely press any buttons and everything just disappears?

I thought I made myself clear, maybe not. It's not the enemy's' it their placement and their usage of projectiles.

[Joote.4081]

@Mungo Zen.9364 said:

@Joote.4081 said:

@Mungo Zen.9364 said:I am of the mind that this game is really easy including the HoT and PoF areas. Yes there is a jump in difficulty from Core to HoT and PoF but, Core has also gotten easier over the past 5 years so new players might not experience their first real challenge until the Expansion areas.

This game has been designed with all the tools a player needs to be successful in any zone. If the game is too hard then perhaps you aren’t using the tools provided to you in a way that will find you success.

I point to meme builds such as Bearbow Ranger as being very common build that rarely uses the Ranger tools to good effect. A lot of players gravitate towards this playstyle without understanding that it will potentially be harder using a sub optimal build for the content you are playing.

That doesn’t mean using a meta build is at all required, but it does mean knowing what you need from your profession when going to different parts of the game world.

Oh I'm not saying it's hard, after all it is a level 80 zone. What I'm saying in a tea cup if I dare, is that it's a tad boring. Not because of the map biome but more down to it's layout, design and monster placement, spamming plus overbearing skill set .

You just called HoT and PoF boring???

What do you want from this game? As in, how would you adjust the game to suit your preference given the complaints you raised in this thread?

Seeing that it's may goto mmo I would say overall that I'm happy with the game. That does not mean it doesn't have flaws. It's those flaws I wish to discuss. Scratch that. Flaws that I THINK the game contains.I would adjust those maps by rethinking the flaws I brought up.I know people have said the expansion maps are not dead but I run overland on the old maps and always get sucked up by large groups every night, and NO, they are not all new players. Then I go to one of the expansion maps and I'm lucky if I see 3 or 4 players. (Not including the city). So unless they are playing parts of HOTs or POF that I have not visited then I don't know .

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Joote.4081 said:

@Mungo Zen.9364 said:

@Joote.4081 said:

@Mungo Zen.9364 said:I am of the mind that this game is really easy including the HoT and PoF areas. Yes there is a jump in difficulty from Core to HoT and PoF but, Core has also gotten easier over the past 5 years so new players might not experience their first real challenge until the Expansion areas.

This game has been designed with all the tools a player needs to be successful in any zone. If the game is too hard then perhaps you aren’t using the tools provided to you in a way that will find you success.

I point to meme builds such as Bearbow Ranger as being very common build that rarely uses the Ranger tools to good effect. A lot of players gravitate towards this playstyle without understanding that it will potentially be harder using a sub optimal build for the content you are playing.

That doesn’t mean using a meta build is at all required, but it does mean knowing what you need from your profession when going to different parts of the game world.

Oh I'm not saying it's hard, after all it is a level 80 zone. What I'm saying in a tea cup if I dare, is that it's a tad boring. Not because of the map biome but more down to it's layout, design and monster placement, spamming plus overbearing skill set .

You just called HoT and PoF boring???

What do you want from this game? As in, how would you adjust the game to suit your preference given the complaints you raised in this thread?

Seeing that it's may goto mmo I would say overall that I'm happy with the game. That does not mean it doesn't have flaws. It's those flaws I wish to discuss. Scratch that. Flaws that I THINK the game contains.I would adjust those maps by rethinking the flaws I brought up.I know people have said the expansion maps are not dead but I run overland on the old maps and always get sucked up by large groups every night, and NO, they are not all new players. Then I go to one of the expansion maps and I'm lucky if I see 3 or 4 players. (Not including the city). So unless they are playing parts of HOTs or POF that I have not visited then I don't know .

HoT metas occur on a set timer every couple of hours. This leads to an ebb and flow of the map population such that maps tend to fill up during the big events. So, if you show up while the meta is in progress or shortly after it completes you will often encounter dead maps (maps that are closing due to low population). This is because the game opens new map instances as players flow in and closes them as players flow out.

If you are unaware of this it may seem that maps are dead, but it's just megaserver adjusting to the population shift.

[Pacificterror.7805]

@Joote.4081 said:I understand now why these areas are usually empty with most players on the old maps.

That's interesting....I primarily play on HoT maps at the moment (slowly working through completing them) and they tend to have a lot of players on them. Although the evening time I play does tend to coincide with the time that meta events are running, so I guess that could have something to do with it.

If nothing else, the maps are very beautiful. I find myself in awe as I go into a new area for the first time.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Joote.4081 said:I only go back to them to farm now and even that isn't all that good. It looks like quite a few of you agree that the detection range is to great, this in itself poses a lot of the problems. Every time you stop or pause something slimy comes along and starts licking your neck or you see that *** red circle appear around you.With POF I think they need to remove a lot of the wandering creatures and make them more territorial. If anything it would make the map feel more real.In HOT you have creatures right next to camps which doesn't feel right. They never wander into the camp and stick to the boundary's. As for the rest of the map it's as if they have just dropped or scattered random creatures all over the place.

In HoT you have monsters in the camps because of story integration: The Pact Fleet is destroyed, its armies scattered across hostile territory. Depending on which part of the event cycle you find yourself in, you will generally be recovering camps from either jungle natives or mordrem. Again, the entire concept is that you are supposed to feel like you're in hostile territory. This is why the enemies are positioned inside the camps and next to the waypoints and also why many of the waypoints are contested until you complete the events to reclaim that area of the map. However, once you push the enemies out the waypoints should mostly be safe in HoT (until the event cycle changes, of course!).

[radda.8920]

hot maps are a masterpiece, one of the best things I have ever explored in a mmo. Especially the meta events, it's really awesome, I would like so much that arena come back to this level with EOD

overall the expansion maps are all well above those added in living story At all levels: design, artistic, events, variety of monsters, incorporation of lore ...so I really don't understand this topic but all tastes are in nature

[Joote.4081]

Ah! So the lack of players could be down to the times I visit these expansion area's. That is something I never thought of but could very well be why I'm seeing dead maps. I will have to change the times I visit and test this out.On a side note I am in the process of playing through the story for the very first time (all chapters). I'm hoping this will cast light on some of the things that confuse me about this game.

[Pirogen.9561]

Core is for leveling. Hot/PoF is 80+ levels. So like "end game". In most other MMOs people do raid. In GW2, in open world, metas are end game. Those maps are more raid-like when it comes to difficulty. HoT/PoF maps can be very busy if some profitable meta event is going on.

Gear: in GW2 its super easy to get max damage gear(exotic/ascendend). So traditional gear is not "end game". But mounts are. No "gear" progression. But "progression" does exists in GW2.

For HoT/PoF maps get griphon or skyscale. End game "gear" for end game content. Most(tho not all) problems will be gone.

Griphon is the fastest to get(if you have 250g). 1 day if you push it hard, over the weekend if you are more casual. Skyscale can be cheaper on gold, but takes longer.

Improve travel options, mounts, related masteries and it gets much better.

[firedragon.8953]

I like core maps, HoT maps, and PoF maps. Sure there are specific maps in each that I hate or find boring, but overall I like them all. I think HoT can feel frustrating for sure, especially tangled depths. I spent probably more than an hour trying to find out how to get a my last couple POIs for map completion in tangled depths. I recently got my skyscale and now I may say HoT maps are some of my favorite. The frustration has dropped and I just realize how wild the maps really are. I also really love some of the core maps because they just have that "vanilla medieval fantasy" feel, that I think the game kind of does away with in higher level zones and enters the realm of horror a bit more (sometimes too much for my personal taste).

Content is definitely more difficult, and the learning curve may be steep at first, but after a bit I find I enjoy the challenge or have to rely on help from other players more to complete content. Which I'm fine with.

[Joote.4081]

@"firedragon.8953" said:I like core maps, HoT maps, and PoF maps. Sure there are specific maps in each that I hate or find boring, but overall I like them all. I think HoT can feel frustrating for sure, especially tangled depths. I spent probably more than an hour trying to find out how to get a my last couple POIs for map completion in tangled depths. I recently got my skyscale and now I may say HoT maps are some of my favorite. The frustration has dropped and I just realize how wild the maps really are. I also really love some of the core maps because they just have that "vanilla medieval fantasy" feel, that I think the game kind of does away with in higher level zones and enters the realm of horror a bit more (sometimes too much for my personal taste).

Content is definitely more difficult, and the learning curve may be steep at first, but after a bit I find I enjoy the challenge or have to rely on help from other players more to complete content. Which I'm fine with.

I suppose this is were I will eventually end up. My bad experience with the new zones could all be down to not liking what you don't understand. I'm going to wipe the slate clean and look on them in a new light.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"Joote.4081" said:Ah! So the lack of players could be down to the times I visit these expansion area's. That is something I never thought of but could very well be why I'm seeing dead maps. I will have to change the times I visit and test this out.On a side note I am in the process of playing through the story for the very first time (all chapters). I'm hoping this will cast light on some of the things that confuse me about this game.

Unlike core maps, you have to pay some attention to the time and what other players on the map are doing. For instance, a map with a large HP train squad running through it might appear dead if you aren't in the squad because most of the players filling that map instance are with the squad. Or if you're trying to complete HPs during the meta, you will probably not find many other players around because they'll all be in Tarir participating in the big event.

Then there is like I mentioned before with the maps opening and closing. So many new players are confused by that. They just see "map closing", hit accept, then "map closing" again, etc. Why are all the maps dead!? Well, it's because the server opened several new maps as tons of players rolled in to participate in the meta! A lot of this kind of stuff isn't really obvious until you understand why it's happening.

[voltaicbore.8012]

@"Joote.4081" said:

With POF I think they need to remove a lot of the wandering creatures and make them more territorial. If anything it would make the map feel more real.In HOT you have creatures right next to camps which doesn't feel right. They never wander into the camp and stick to the boundary's. As for the rest of the map it's as if they have just dropped or scattered random creatures all over the place.

This is one of the only things you've claimed in this thread that I actually agree with. I think the greatest visible offender is the hydra, which is a huge creature just lumbering around for absolutely no reason. At least the sand lion packs (prides?) are usually around rocks or trees, so there's some sense of "okay, that's kind of their shelter amid the sand, they're getting territorial." Sand sharks are a bit worse than the lions in terms of randomness, but given that the sand is their habitat I guess that can't be helped.

[Sobx.1758]

@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@"Joote.4081" said:

With POF I think they need to remove a lot of the wandering creatures and make them more territorial. If anything it would make the map feel more real.In HOT you have creatures right next to camps which doesn't feel right. They never wander into the camp and stick to the boundary's. As for the rest of the map it's as if they have just dropped or scattered random creatures all over the place.

This is one of the only things you've claimed in this thread that I actually agree with. I think the greatest visible offender is the hydra, which is a huge creature just lumbering around for absolutely no reason. At least the sand lion packs (prides?) are usually around rocks or trees, so there's some sense of "okay, that's kind of their shelter amid the sand, they're getting territorial." Sand sharks are a bit worse than the lions in terms of randomness, but given that the sand is their habitat I guess that can't be helped.

I think it feels better and looks "more alive" if the creature is actually roaming around instead of just camping its spawn point waiting for who-knows-what tbh.

[Randulf.7614]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@"Joote.4081" said:

With POF I think they need to remove a lot of the wandering creatures and make them more territorial. If anything it would make the map feel more real.In HOT you have creatures right next to camps which doesn't feel right. They never wander into the camp and stick to the boundary's. As for the rest of the map it's as if they have just dropped or scattered random creatures all over the place.

This is one of the only things you've claimed in this thread that I actually agree with. I think the greatest visible offender is the hydra, which is a huge creature just lumbering around for absolutely no reason. At least the sand lion packs (prides?) are usually around rocks or trees, so there's some sense of "okay, that's kind of their shelter amid the sand, they're getting territorial." Sand sharks are a bit worse than the lions in terms of randomness, but given that the sand is their habitat I guess that can't be helped.

I think it feels better and looks "more alive" if the creature is actually roaming around instead of just camping its spawn point waiting for who-knows-what tbh.

100% agree. This was something they highlighted back at game launch and has been mixed in delivery. I like seeing mobs wandering wide and sometimes even suddenly engaging with other mobs

Hydra is a perfect example of getting it right

[ASP.8093]

I like the PoF aggro range, it makes me feel like the mobs aren't just static cut-outs waiting for me to gank them in three hits.

[voltaicbore.8012]

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@"Joote.4081" said:

With POF I think they need to remove a lot of the wandering creatures and make them more territorial. If anything it would make the map feel more real.In HOT you have creatures right next to camps which doesn't feel right. They never wander into the camp and stick to the boundary's. As for the rest of the map it's as if they have just dropped or scattered random creatures all over the place.

This is one of the only things you've claimed in this thread that I actually agree with. I think the greatest visible offender is the hydra, which is a huge creature just lumbering around for absolutely no reason. At least the sand lion packs (prides?) are usually around rocks or trees, so there's some sense of "okay, that's kind of their shelter amid the sand, they're getting territorial." Sand sharks are a bit worse than the lions in terms of randomness, but given that the sand is their habitat I guess that can't be helped.

I think it feels better and looks "more alive" if the creature is actually roaming around instead of just camping its spawn point waiting for who-knows-what tbh.

100% agree. This was something they highlighted back at game launch and has been mixed in delivery. I like seeing mobs wandering wide and sometimes even suddenly engaging with other mobs

Hydra is a perfect example of getting it right

I'd agree that the results are mixed, and that in general moving and "alive" mobs are much better than static ones that are just waiting in stationary spots. It's why I appreciate that the forged have patrols outside of of their bases in the desert, and whenever you do find them just kind of standing around in the open, they're actually trying to hold a strategic point in force.

The hydra... is just kind of there. Sure, it moves, and I agree it's better than having it stand still. However, they just seem placed for pure inconvenience, rather than any respect for building an environment. Doesn't matter if it's in the branded zone of the riverlands, or 3 randomly walking around a sandy dune outside Amnoon. As I said, sand sharks cover a wide space but 'swim' in sand, and such occupy sandy areas. Sand lions almost always mill about at least some rocks and foliage. Scarabs also have a thing for vegetation, harpies stick to elevated areas, jacaranda are either burrowed or blend in with foliage. Non-branded hydras are just plopped anywhere it seems, and we never see them hunting wildlife or doing anything other than waiting to hop in on the nearest HP fight.

I'm not saying that they're hard to kill, but they feel bolted-on relative to everything else. "Getting it right" is the last thing I'd say about them.

[Joote.4081]

Well I have played POF all day and my final verdict is 'I hate it'. Use to just not like it but now I hate it. I can lose myself in GW2 and the hours fly by, but today in the POF region it was torture. I feel as if my brain has been molested by a smoothie maker then had it's bum smacked with a round of warm toast.The only reason I will go back there is if the story takes me there.

[Atomos.7593]

@Joote.4081 said:Well I have played POF all day and my final verdict is 'I hate it'. Use to just not like it but now I hate it. I can lose myself in GW2 and the hours fly by, but today in the POF region it was torture. I feel as if my brain has been molested by a smoothie maker then had it's bum smacked with a round of warm toast.The only reason I will go back there is if the story takes me there.

I don't like the PoF expansion maps much either. The living world season 4 maps are much better in my opinion. The PoF maps feel too bland and empty for me, but I realize it is meant to have this feel being a desert and all. Elon Riverlands is a fairly populated area most of the time though and has some fun events.

[Sobx.1758]

@Joote.4081 said:Well I have played POF all day and my final verdict is 'I hate it'. Use to just not like it but now I hate it. I can lose myself in GW2 and the hours fly by, but today in the POF region it was torture. I feel as if my brain has been molested by a smoothie maker then had it's bum smacked with a round of warm toast.The only reason I will go back there is if the story takes me there.

...so you're a new player that haven't even played through the story yet? Not sure why you're trying to rush the content so hard, but you do what you want I guess.

[Joote.4081]

Yeah, a large empty and bland area that is packed wall to wall with uninteresting trash mobs[ that can knock you from your mount and very little else. I hate it when that happens, it means I have to fight the boring things.I'm going to have nightmares to night about sand slug shark things and death rays BS bogies rolling endlessly over a hill.

One good thing has come out of this though, HOTs now feels like a masterpiece in comparison.

[Eraden.8740]

I really hate the HoT areas but that is because it is so confusing to try and figure out how to get to a location that is literally only 100 feet away but could be 1000 feet above or below. The mini map seems to do a really subpar job of actually showing the differences in elevation and that makes using the mini map in those zones even more frustrating in terms of trying to plan out a route. Fortunately, A little bit of time and acquisition of some of the base mounts (Springer most notably) has softened my hatred of those zones and now they are much more palatable. I guess it would be too much to ask for an isomorphic view of the main map? One other thing.....I am a botanist by trade (or used to be as I am now retired) and never has a set of game zones ever made me love the concept of Agent Orange so much, as the HoT zones have!