Rifle

[Leo G.4501]

This is the first I'm hearing of War Rifle having an ammo mechanic. How does that work?

If I'm hearing this right, the weapon could still use some improvements so why not instead of just simply ammo charges, they work like flip skills too that vary in range? You can even have the close range versions have faster cast times. If it's possible to have the skills flip automatically depending on the nearest range charge you have available.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Leo G.4501 said:This is the first I'm hearing of War Rifle having an ammo mechanic. How does that work?

If I'm hearing this right, the weapon could still use some improvements so why not instead of just simply ammo charges, they work like flip skills too that vary in range? You can even have the close range versions have faster cast times. If it's possible to have the skills flip automatically depending on the nearest range charge you have available.

Wow! It's been over a year now!

They gave aimed shot, volley, and brutal shot 2 ammo charges with lowish CDs and then cut their damage in half, and then reduced the damage further for competitive 'balance.'

Riflebutt now recharges one ammo charge on each of the above skills if it hits. The flow is a lot better, and with crack shot and martial cadence you barely have to auto attack. It all just hits low unless it's volley, kill shot, or gunflame. If they didn't do the competitive damage nerf then it would be fine.

It works okay as a meme 1 shot weapon with the bursts, or as a backline dps support. By that I mean you setup the real DPS for their burst while applying pressure. The stat combo to really make that role shine don't exist though.

[Sifu.9745]

I don't understand why Longbow (condition or hybrid stats) is better than power Rifle in all aspect of the game: better single and aoe dmg. Rifle doesn't even have one single aoe attack. I would expect that a pure single target weapon would deal at least 20% more single target dmg than aoe weapon. But nope, Longbow single target dmg is just superior to Rifle. Rifle has one of the weakest AA in the game, while Longbow AA, if traited with Crack Shot, is way higher dmg (at least 2 times higher than Rifle's aa crit dmg or four times non crit). I am talking about condi Longbow vs Power Rifle.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Sifu.9745 said:I don't understand why Longbow (condition or hybrid stats) is better than power Rifle in all aspect of the game: better single and aoe dmg. Rifle doesn't even have one single aoe attack. I would expect that a pure single target weapon would deal at least 20% more single target dmg than aoe weapon. But nope, Longbow single target dmg is just superior to Rifle. Rifle has one of the weakest AA in the game, while Longbow AA, if traited with Crack Shot, is way higher dmg (at least 2 times higher than Rifle's aa crit dmg or four times non crit). I am talking about condi Longbow vs Power Rifle.

Well Killshot and Volley Pierce , so are essentially Line AoEs, but I get your meaning.

Longbow as a hybrid weapon can function as a power weapon, and does have more AoE. Combustive Shot is rather weak though since the damage only pulses every 3s rather than ever 1s like most other AoEs in the game. That said it is a 1.0 scaling in all game modes and can hit up to 4 times over 9 seconds.

Dual Shot does indeed do higher damage even without Crack Shot than Fierce Shot, but it also attacks more slowly.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Sifu.9745 said:I don't understand why Longbow (condition or hybrid stats) is better than power Rifle in all aspect of the game: better single and aoe dmg. Rifle doesn't even have one single aoe attack. I would expect that a pure single target weapon would deal at least 20% more single target dmg than aoe weapon. But nope, Longbow single target dmg is just superior to Rifle. Rifle has one of the weakest AA in the game, while Longbow AA, if traited with Crack Shot, is way higher dmg (at least 2 times higher than Rifle's aa crit dmg or four times non crit). I am talking about condi Longbow vs Power Rifle.In all aspects except where it matters - single target focus, duh.

Rifle is vastly superior in WvW smallscale. In fact nobody even run longbow in WvW anywhere because its complete kitten - and thats compared to a rifle thats already very rare due to melee strength. Nobody run condi warrior because its complete kitten compared to a power warrior.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Rifle is good for single target focus. The vulnerability and immobilize will help someone on an actual damage weapon kill the target quickly. You can do it solo, it just takes forever. I've killed a pretty decent weaver with rilfe before and out pew-pewed longbow rangers with it before, but those weren't typical matchups. That weaver took forever to kill, and the rangers I out pew pew'd were just bad players.

The weapon right now is decent as a backline offense support weapon, except the stats that would make it really shine do not exist.

[felix.2386]

5 should be 240 radius aoe knockback around the character

also longbow outdamage rifle in power in wvw.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@felix.2386 said:5 should be 240 radius aoe knockback around the character

also longbow outdamage rifle in power in wvw.

volley is more reliable than Arcing Arrow though, but fan of fire in melee (lol) is a pretty great damage skill. I've out shot rangers before with power Longbow, but then those rangers weren't particularly good players fwiw.

[Touchme.1097]

Rifle warrior is strong as it is, it needs no buffs. It's very bursty, maybe too much considering it doesn't have an elite specialization built around rifle and puts Deadeye's burst to shame.Rifle warrior in PvP ->

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@"Touchme.1097" said:Rifle warrior is strong as it is, it needs no buffs. It's very bursty, maybe too much considering it doesn't have an elite specialization built around rifle and puts Deadeye's burst to shame.Rifle warrior in PvP ->

That video was from 2018, pre Feb2020 nerf patch and before Rifle 2-4 were given the ammo system and had their damages halved on top of the nerf patch. Come back with recent footage in the current competitive environment if this is the argument you really want to make.

[Touchme.1097]

March 27 2020, Rifle Warrior vs Boneskinner. Definitely not in a bad spot right now, the damage is ok. Rifle warrior is one of those things that a buff could shift it from ok to OP due to the insane burst of a button. Rifle warriors were still able to 1 shot players in full hp before the feb 2020 patch

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Touchme.1097 this discussion is primarily centered on competitive play, so posting a PvE video still does not help your argument. Of course Berserker's were one shotting people before the Feb 2020 patch. That is irrelevant to the current meta. Again, if you are going to post a video trying to prove Rifle is OP, then go find one made in PvP or WvW post Feb. 2020 with 1-Shots against equally skilled/geared players.

[Yasai.3549]

I've read some of the comments and I kinda agree :Warrior Rifle should move away from "Burst" and take a "Consistent damage" approach.

Auto with staggered hits (3 hit bursts) could do the trick.I think we can keep current rifle 2, 3 and 4.

Could use a Rifle 5 change which makes it a Utility skill tbh.Thinking of something like an active which gives Swiftness and Fury while reloading 1 Ammo.

As for Burst, could make it a 400 conal range spray and pray skill which deals multihit in an area.(something like Level 1 : 10 hits, Level 2 : 15 hits, Level 3 20 hits)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@"Yasai.3549" said:I've read some of the comments and I kinda agree :Warrior Rifle should move away from "Burst" and take a "Consistent damage" approach.

Auto with staggered hits (3 hit bursts) could do the trick.So the current cast time, but a 3 round burst? Damage the same per hit (so stronger than the current AA) or divide the current damage across the three hits?I think we can keep current rifle 2, 3 and 4.

Could use a Rifle 5 change which makes it a Utility skill tbh.Thinking of something like an active which gives Swiftness and Fury while reloading 1 Ammo.Reload: Regain 1 ammo charge on your rifle skills. Gain 5s of swiftness and 5s of fury per ammo recharged. (so 0 - 15s depending on ammo recharged).

As for Burst, could make it a 400 conal range spray and pray skill which deals multihit in an area.(something like Level 1 : 10 hits, Level 2 : 15 hits, Level 3 20 hits)Not against it, just not sure if 20 hits is something that should be in the game. Or is this more like a shotgun blast where T1 hits up to 5 targets 2 times and T3 hits up to 5 targets 4 times?

[Yasai.3549]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

So the current cast time, but a 3 round burst? Damage the same per hit (so stronger than the current AA) or divide the current damage across the three hits?P'much same damage divided over 3 hits, but with increased attack speed compared to current Auto.Idea is no move away from chunk burst hits, but chipping multi hits.But imo it could be quite strong if the range is still 1200.900 Range would be okayish.

Reload: Regain 1 ammo charge on your rifle skills. Gain 5s of swiftness and 5s of fury per ammo recharged. (so 0 - 15s depending on ammo recharged).cool.

Not against it, just not sure if 20 hits is something that should be in the game. Or is this more like a shotgun blast where T1 hits up to 5 targets 2 times and T3 hits up to 5 targets 4 times?

Ehhh I guess 20 may be abit much.Maybe :Level 1 : 5 HitsLevel 2 : 7 HitsLevel 3 : 10 Hits

Targets : 5?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

So the current cast time, but a 3 round burst? Damage the same per hit (so stronger than the current AA) or divide the current damage across the three hits?P'much same damage divided over 3 hits, but with increased attack speed compared to current Auto.Idea is no move away from chunk burst hits, but chipping multi hits.But imo it could be quite strong if the range is still 1200.900 Range would be okayish.

Reload:

Regain 1 ammo charge on your rifle skills. Gain 5s of swiftness and 5s of fury per ammo recharged. (so 0 - 15s depending on ammo recharged).cool.

Not against it, just not sure if 20 hits is something that should be in the game. Or is this more like a shotgun blast where T1 hits up to 5 targets 2 times and T3 hits up to 5 targets 4 times?

Ehhh I guess 20 may be abit much.Maybe :Level 1 : 5 HitsLevel 2 : 7 HitsLevel 3 : 10 Hits

Targets : 5?More reasonable. Damage level? Same as current but spread out across all hits or more overall damage. I'm okay with more, but not much, since there would be better ability to mitigate portions of the attack. Since it is an AoE would it be a projectile skill?

[jesronne.8156]

With the recent patch... is there a place for a rifle warrior in wvw or still a meme? Thanks

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 minutes ago, jesronne.8156 said:

With the recent patch... is there a place for a rifle warrior in wvw or still a meme? Thanks

Spec into Expertise, take Leg Specialist. Run with a team. Use the new Explosive shell to ping high value targets from the back line so that your teammates can use the 20 stacks of vuln, cripple, and immobilize to kill the target.

[felix.2386]

Leg Specialist says damage increase

[felix.2386]

just take berserker's power, you get plenty of damage

 

also just take leg specialist, because it says damage increase.

Edited May 12, 2021 by felix.2386

[jesronne.8156]

Any sample build?

[jesronne.8156]

Ive read the patch the leg specialist increase from 7 to 10% is for PVE only

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 hours ago, jesronne.8156 said:

Ive read the patch the leg specialist increase from 7 to 10% is for PVE only

You are correct. Kind of sad that change didn't make it into WvW/PvP.

 

You also asked for a sample build. There really isn't 'one' build as far as this thread goes, just a reassessment of priorities when you run rifle.

 

With the change to the AA chain you could run something other than Forceful Greatsword if you used it for might generation, like the new Great Fortitude for more ferocity. Paired with Phalanx Strength you can be a might bot to further help setup the spike. If you're looking to be more annoying, then Celestial stats now offer expertise and concentration, so you can run those along with whatever rune suits you and have longer immobilizes and longer might durations. There are several ways you can play it, even full Memeshot/Memeflame which honestly got a buff with the new Great Fortitude.

[DKRathalos.9625]

17 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Spec into Expertise, take Leg Specialist. Run with a team. Use the new Explosive shell to ping high value targets from the back line so that your teammates can use the 20 stacks of vuln, cripple, and immobilize to kill the target.

Is there any stat combi like Power/Precision/Ferocity/Expertise? Usually expertise not matched with power, or do we go celestial 😄

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

49 minutes ago, DKRathalos.9625 said:

Is there any stat combi like Power/Precision/Ferocity/Expertise? Usually expertise not matched with power, or do we go celestial 😄

That would be the exact combination to complement rifle and I hope we see it in EoD. But yeah... Either Viper or Celestial if you want to focus on the immobilize duration, neither would be ideal though.