We need more GW exposure to the masses

[ixora.3569]

We got cool trailers coming out for ff14 online but nothing for EOD. How cool would it be to see a commercial for gw2 or even an anime?

[Vayne.8563]

How cool would it be if Guild Wars 2 tried to compete with FFXIV Online's ads, when they have a bigger Warchest than we do? The idea that you should advertise while a big competitor is coming out is terribad. You advertise in a window with less competition. Remember FF XIV has console guys to bolster it's numbers and it's massively popular in Asia too. Guild Wars 2 is Guild Wars "2". FFXIV is the 14th game in that series. It's a more entrenched IP that Anet shouldn't be competing with directly. Why would they?

[artcreator.4859]

YES, something would be great, hopefully if they're serious about the future of the game they'll try to garner some hype for EoD.

[Astyrah.4015]

i don't think gw2 needs to compete with ff14, but i do agree the game needs more marketing effort for it's upcoming expansion.

maybe another trailer to tease us or a live stream to update us on how the expansion is doing, like what new features they've already gotten in (or in testing), new elite specs, etc.

[ugrakarma.9416]

normally they spam ads at end of season previous to the xpac, in this case will be at end of Icebrood saga.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Astyrah.4015 said:i don't think gw2 needs to compete with ff14, but i do agree the game needs more marketing effort for it's upcoming expansion.Looking back at all their past advertising campaigns, no, the game really doesn't need more of those.

[Nilkemia.8507]

How did their past advertising campaigns go?...

[Xanadrine.4352]

I think with the next expansion they need to start thinking about new blood. GW2 could be a powerhouse, but its sounding like EoD will be the last. Im sorry but im going to say it, to retain many new players they need to add the LWS when you buy the expansion. This is huge for new players, they feel locked out and feel somewhat cheated when they then have to buy all those LWS remember these are new players. They dont have gold reserves they have to spend cash. Its a turn off when you buy a game with all the expansions but only get part of the story included. Unless they are tired of GW2 and want to move on, because adapt and evolve in order to continue. You have to add new players to get more revenue. The cosmetic shop is fine, and eventually those new players will start to use it, but lets be real here expecting new players to buy all the LWS is kinda harsh considering they think they are buying the game content when they buy the game. People expect to have to pay for skins, but the story lines? and having mounts tied to several LWS is disappointing.

[vonbek.4810]

@"Nilkemia.8507" said:How did their past advertising campaigns go?...

Cringy let's see there was the taxi drivers from Tyria, The launch trailer, The only good thing they ever did imo is the SAB commercial

[Vayne.8563]

@vonbek.4810 said:

@"Nilkemia.8507" said:How did their past advertising campaigns go?...

Cringy let's see there was the taxi drivers from Tyria, The launch trailer, The only good thing they ever did imo is the SAB commercial

There were a couple of other good ones, pre launch. The manifesto and the one that showed the bird in the beginning with the painting feel. Not to mention the first first trailer that started "the dragons have always been here". It's just the bad ones are so bad that people forget there were good ones.

[Dawdler.8521]

If they want to challenge asian MMOs they need more exposure alright but not the kind you wrote.

[Omega.6801]

@ixora.3569 said:even an anime?

lost me right there.No. Nope. No. Rather not. No. Pls no. No.

[Omega.6801]

@"Nilkemia.8507" said:How did their past advertising campaigns go?...

While there is no bad PR but no PR, I know exactly what you mean. ANet went out of their way to produce cringy marketing stunts targeting really strange portions of the playerbase. Just think of the Taxi Ad, the Kung Fu Tea desaster and the horrific Griffon statue that was their "big advertisment gimmick" for PoF.

[AgentMoore.9453]

@lokh.2695 said:

@"ixora.3569" said:even an anime?

lost me right there.No. Nope. No. Rather not. No. Pls no. No.

Remember that time GaiaOnline reskinned one of their NPCs to look like Canach?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

More seriously though, I don't find the current marketing ArenaNet has been doing to be very effective, but I would welcome a nice statue of that noodle dragon from the trailer done in the vein of the Shatterer and Rytlock statues released closer to the launch of the game. Funko Pops and janky tea and sub sandwich shop promos that reward a weird mini just don't do it for me.

Other options:

• More community rush events that get advertised on social media to attract new players
• Sales (they do these and they're advertised well enough I suppose)
• Bonus XP weekends (they happen from time to time and should be advertised to potential new blood)
• Teased content (just nothing too detailed, that always leads to disappointment)
• Web ads (someone still exists who browses without an adblocker; might as well slap them with Tyria)
• Clever cross-promotion (there was one with Dell not too long ago that involved GW2-themed mini-games on the Dell site which seemed classy and functioned well)
• Unexpected promotion (once upon a time Arby's posted a promotional Rytlock made of meat and cheese on their social media page; it was horrifying, but effective at generating interest)
• Silly videos using GW2 assets (they did this
  or
  long ago and I still think about it)
• Cryptic dev posts on the forums/social media that generate hype (can also do this with temporary websites or timers with an unclear purpose)
• Generate a simple 'we made this in a month' app/mobile game that uses GW2 things to announce GW2's existence to the mobile crowd who can then play it when they get home (think Candy Crush, but with little Quaggans and Choya, etc.)

EDIT: My mistake, not Denny's, it was Arby's who was responsible for the terrifying Meatlock Gristlestone.

[Firebeard.1746]

@"Vayne.8563" said:How cool would it be if Guild Wars 2 tried to compete with FFXIV Online's ads, when they have a bigger Warchest than we do? The idea that you should advertise while a big competitor is coming out is terribad. You advertise in a window with less competition. Remember FF XIV has console guys to bolster it's numbers and it's massively popular in Asia too. Guild Wars 2 is Guild Wars "2". FFXIV is the 14th game in that series. It's a more entrenched IP that Anet shouldn't be competing with directly. Why would they?

How do you get big or entrenched in the first place? Advertising and making splashes, both in the airwaves and among communities. The OP said nothing about timing, but I think they're on spot in not doing a good job of occupying any sort of presence. This game is something you have to look for. I found it while looking for a replacement to my MOBA addiction. sPVP wasn't so horrid back then and was my primary activity. But I only even considered it because I knew it was a WoW competitor and felt done with WoW at the time and knew I wanted to get into an MMO. I also completely missed the end game systems and didn't stay long. Like I toyed with them, but they didn't really suck me in until after I came back after WoW and realized I wanted to push deeper.

[Game of Bones.8975]

Why does the promotion have to be centered around a new expansion?Why not just a promotion about GW2 the MMO in general?Ads on specific YouTube channels would be a good start.

[Fuchslein.8639]

They' ve done advertising before?I've NEVER seen GW2 advertised anywhere and I get ads for games and MMO's all the time on Youtube and co.I found GW2 only through a German youtuber, but she has not really played it for a long time.I always thought that was the problem. There is only word of mouth.

Why don't they advertise with the great trailers they always post on Twitter? These are always so pretty.Advertise properly, not just hope that the community will shout it out into the world.

[Astyrah.4015]

@AgentMoore.9453 said:

• Web ads (someone still exists who browses without an adblocker; might as well slap them with Tyria)

@Fuchslein.8639 said:I've NEVER seen GW2 advertised anywhere and I get ads for games and MMO's all the time on Youtube and co.

on my sandbox/VM (that runs windows 7) when i use the web browser (internet explorer) on reddit and other sites i always get those little ads on the side that promote games like world of warships/tanks, tera, bdo, insert_newest_mobilegame_cashgrab, etc....i mean i will never ever click those but even so i know about them or atleast their title because i saw them once-twice-three times on a random adspace.

~i never see them on my main system though since everything is adblocked and script blocked lol =)

[Vayne.8563]

@Firebeard.1746 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:How cool would it be if Guild Wars 2 tried to compete with FFXIV Online's ads, when they have a bigger Warchest than we do? The idea that you should advertise while a big competitor is coming out is terribad. You advertise in a window with less competition. Remember FF XIV has console guys to bolster it's numbers and it's massively popular in Asia too. Guild Wars 2 is Guild Wars "2". FFXIV is the 14th game in that series. It's a more entrenched IP that Anet shouldn't be competing with directly. Why would they?

How do you get big or entrenched in the first place? Advertising and making splashes, both in the airwaves and among communities. The OP said nothing about timing, but I think they're on spot in not doing a good job of occupying any sort of presence. This game is something you have to look for. I found it while looking for a replacement to my MOBA addiction. sPVP wasn't so horrid back then and was my primary activity. But I only even considered it because I knew it was a WoW competitor and felt done with WoW at the time and knew I wanted to get into an MMO. I also completely missed the end game systems and didn't stay long. Like I toyed with them, but they didn't really suck me in until after I came back after WoW and realized I wanted to push deeper.

Advertising at the right time in the right place makes splashes. Random advertising at the wrong time doesn't. When you take an advertising class, you'll find you can start advertising too early and too late, particularly if you're working on a budget. If you can't pay for regular advertising all along (and most games can't) they have to save the budget for when it makes the most sense to advertise.

Bigger companies do advertise all year around and smaller companies tend to do their big ads when it does them the most good. Christmas time, back to school, tax return or whatever. I know this from first hand experience. If you go up in advertising against someone with deeper pockets then you, you get drowned out.

I'm not saying don't advertise. I'm saying spend your money when it will do the most good. 3 months before release of your product, which should be timed to avoid other major competitive releases. Anet has often done this in the past.

[Fuchslein.8639]

@Astyrah.4015 said:

@AgentMoore.9453 said:

• Web ads (someone still exists who browses without an adblocker; might as well slap them with Tyria)

@Fuchslein.8639 said:I've NEVER seen GW2 advertised anywhere and I get ads for games and MMO's all the time on Youtube and co.

on my sandbox/VM (that runs windows 7) when i use the web browser (internet explorer) on reddit and other sites i always get those little ads on the side that promote games like world of warships/tanks, tera, bdo, insert_newest_mobilegame_cashgrab, etc....i mean i will never ever click those but even so i know about them or atleast their title because i saw them once-twice-three times on a random adspace.

~i never see them on my main system though since everything is adblocked and script blocked lol =)

I don't see any ads on my PC either. But I am often outside on the cell phone or at home on the tablet. There I always see ads on Youtube and Co. and they bother me very little (especially because I'm someone who jumps on many things and has already bought / played some things from ads after a bit research).My very first MMO I got to know through an add that was switched over a forum which I visited regularly and through which they financed themselves.

And this Youtuberin from which I got to know GW2, I only got to know because a very large German Youtuber had made advertising for her :).Advertising can set a lot movement.

[Stormcrow.7513]

With the current path of meh being produced lately I am probably only going to get EOD because of pure gw1 nostalgia.

[Jokubas.4265]

The problem with Guild Wars 2's exposure isn't just a lack of marketing, but I'm honestly not really sure what it is.

When Guild Wars 2 first came out, we had the most friends and acquaintances we've ever had migrate to any MMO right away. We had a huge guild of real life friends, including people who we didn't know bought the game right away but joined our server by coincidence.

All of them but two stopped playing after the first month or so. Why? To this day I'm not really sure. They're not really sure. Every once and awhile we try to talk one of them into coming back. They're super excited to play for the session we bring them in for, then they go right back to forgetting this game even exists. When prodded, they have no answer as to why they do this with the game.

To be honest, I'm technically of one of them. If it wasn't for the one person who remained obsessed with the game, I probably would have forgotten this game a long time ago, or at least not bothered to keep up with it. I'd love to say I'd be a good litmus test of this phenomenon, because I'm affected by it but have been kept close enough to the game to bother talking about it. The problem is, I can't place it.

In theory, I like this game. I really, really appreciate a lot of what it does. I appreciate the game never having raised the level cap. I appreciate the horizontal progression. I appreciate almost everything being account-wide unlocks. I appreciate the buy-to-play model. I appreciate the Living World giving me a little something to do every once and awhile. I appreciate the dynamic combat that eschews hard-coded roles for actual tactics. I appreciate the movement and dodging and jumping puzzles. I appreciate the way gliders and mounts reinvented movement instead of just being movement speed upgrades. Every time I play Guild Wars 2 around the time I'm playing something else, I always wonder why that other game can't do things the way Guild Wars does.

And yet I usually consider myself more of an active fan of anything else. I just don't know why. I wish I did because I'd love to relate that to help this game, because I really do appreciate it.

It makes me concerned that as things are, though, that even a bigger marketing push would only just create a new generation of people who hop into the game once and then never return on their own.

[Leo G.4501]

If I were Anet, I definitely wouldn't be taking advice from their own forum. To them, Anet is a failure and trying anything appropriate or costly is only going to end in more failure...words worthy to be uttered by a failure.

Lol if you want to win, you have to have confidence your product is novel and worthy for everyone to beat their neighbors' kids in order to obtain. Don't compete!? Capitalistic economies don't get that luxury. The game is actually pretty fun too, so you should probably advertise like you're one of the most known MMOs of the previous era that is still on the market and never listen to the jaded disgruntled forums.

FYI, this isn't advice to Anet but rather criticism for the forums goers: you're too salty for your own good lol so any advice taken from you should come with a light shaving of "forum goer trimmings".

[Jokubas.4265]

The point about Living World Seasons coming packaged with their respective expansion is a good one. That I can support without any narrowing down of player engagement. It's definitely a good example of "it sounds good on paper to have more revenue sources, but ultimately backfires when it becomes a deterrent to a new player being invested enough to spend money."

As for my last post, I guess the closest we've gotten to an answer is "I don't know what to do", and this even applies to leveling. To the hardcore fans it sounds like nonsense. There's a million things to do in the game. It might have more, actually meaningful, currently relevant options for what to do than any other MMO. When leveling, just about everything gives experience, from combat to crafting to gathering to even just reviving allies.

Where to StartThe problem has to be the Quicksand Box problem. When there's too many options, it's very often paralyzing.

I remember hating leveling the first time I did it, and always felt like I was behind (now I have so many boosts and level setting items that it'll never be a problem again). It's been so long that I can't entirely trust my memory, but I recall it being a bit twofold. The first is that there's a lot I didn't want to do. I wanted to be able to make my way through a zone, do the Renown Hearts, and move on. This was never enough to actually meet the threshold for the next zone range. I didn't want to do Crafting. I usually hate Crafting. Even in this game, while I appreciate some interesting aspects to crafting, I still find it too fiddly and grindy to care about (which, incidentally, is punishing in the reward system, which is a topic I'll get to later).

The other problem was with Dynamic Events. Dynamic Events are great. They're one of the main draws of the game. They're also unpredictable, especially for a new player who may have no concept of what events appear, when, and what timers they have. I would constantly find myself annoyed with Dynamic Events. I didn't want to drop what I was already in the middle of to go run off to an event I knew nothing about. And I'd have to drop what I was doing in progress if I even wanted to do the event, because too often I'd head over to an event only to not make it in time, making the whole journey a waste of time. I'd feel bad if I missed an event, though, because I'd always wonder if it had some unique element to it or granted progress to some achievement. Sometimes I'd be confused by the icons on the map. Sometimes an icon is actually the destination of an escort event, sometimes it would be something you would have to interact with to start an event. Too often I'd rather just stick to what I understood about the game, which wasn't enough to keep me on the leveling curve.

I think this uncertainty helps contribute to the number of options, even at max level, being paralyzing as well.

There are a million things you can go and earn in this game. Titles, cosmetics, Legendaries, and there's a decent variety of challenge for them as well. The problem is it's not easy to even know that they exist to go after. Most can be found in the Achievement panel, but this is not something other games do, so that itself is a bit unintuitive. The second problem is that even if you know to look there, they're scattered all over the place, and many are intentionally hidden until you find how they start, which you're not likely going to do without already knowing about the thing and looking up a guide for it. It's like needing a key to open a door, but the key is on the other side of the door. Even that, I think, is overshadowed by something else.

Reward StructureEven if you know where to look for a goal to make for yourself and how to start on the path, almost every goal you can have is daunting. I think to best illustrate this, I need to admit something that I realized I've been completely taking for granted. You see, I'm a veteran of this game. I've been around since day one. I'm maxed out on (non-raid) Mastery. And yet, whenever a new patch comes out, I've just come to accept that I will earn nothing that doesn't come as part of the main story and map exploration path of the update. I don't even bother trying anymore. I've been enjoying the patches well enough, but I ignore absolutely anything about whatever secret weapon or armor skin or title is in the patch, because I know I'm never going to get it.

It seems every new goal that's added, whether it be a title or weapon skin, or emote, is treated like a Legendary. My assumption is that this is done on purpose in order to keep the really hardcore players busy who are caught up on everything. Unfortunately, this means that for everyone who's not caught up on everything, you just have this endless list of lifetime goals to pursue, so nothing feels attainable. I don't feel like spending hundreds of hours of gameplay or hundreds of hard-earned gold (since I'm casual, despite being a veteran, and don't regularly make money) just for some weapon skins that aren't really that special in the long run. I'd love to have more options and I'd be willing to work for them, but there's a difference between dedicating some effort to earning something new, and doing a Herculean effort for just anything.

It's also telling that, I'm a player who's super into cosmetics, in a game ostensibly about cosmetics. And yet, after all these years I still have only a little more than a handful of skin options for any given slot. If something is not an absolute, one-in-a-million, perfect for my character, must have, the time (or gem) investment is just too daunting to bother with.

If a new player is told that some moderately cool weapon skin they see someone using requires buying their way into a specific patch, making their way through it, and then grinding for hours and hours and spending tens or hundreds of gold, they're just going to give up on that idea. When everything is like that, they're going to say "I don't know what to do".

It's a bit of a paradox, but I think things like this need to be addressed before a serious marketing push will matter. Otherwise it might even make things worse, just widening the game's unusual reputation.