Power dmg vs condi dmg

[Sansar.1302]

It feels like condi is the dominant dmg type now,I belive that Power dmg should be way higer or maby eaven the dominant damage type.

Can actualy get burn ticks higer on guardian with full celestial than i can get maul or worldy impact on my almost full maurader ranger ( weapon are soldier )Before the big dmg nerf patch a year ago it where perfect ballance in condi vs power dmg and now it aint eaven close.This is my opinion from smal scale ( 1 to 5 players )

[Cyninja.2954]

Depends on which size of engage you are talking about. Might even be region specific given the US WvW maps are far less populated than EU and thus might see more smaller scale fights.

GvG or BvB you can assume power is dominant, simply due to cleanse and conversion of conditions (either via dedicated support or mass amount of it).

Small scale is more towards condition damage due to often lack of cleanse/convert. Class dependent though.

Roaming I'd say it's an even split with certain classes favoring one over the other. Again with maybe a slight advantage to condition due to simplicity of just putting on tank condi builds.

[Dawdler.8521]

Condi is good 1v1 but power still compete there on pretty much any class. Once above 2 mans power completely dominate. In fact there is basicly only one "meta" condi build and thats torment rev. The rest are niche which often have an equally powerfull or superior power variant. Even if you compare power rev, thats basicly as strong as torment rev.

[Caedmon.6798]

@Sansar.1302 said:It feels like condi is the dominant dmg type now,I belive that Power dmg should be way higer or maby eaven the dominant damage type.

Can actualy get burn ticks higer on guardian with full celestial than i can get maul or worldy impact on my almost full maurader ranger ( weapon are soldier )Before the big dmg nerf patch a year ago it where perfect ballance in condi vs power dmg and now it aint eaven close.This is my opinion from smal scale ( 1 to 5 players )

Now ? It always has been.

[Shroud.2307]

I don't think Burn Guard should be the benchmark at which you measure an imbalance between Power and Condition when said build is broken even by the standards of "normal" Condition builds.

[Yasai.3549]

Power damage can no longer fight outnumbered due to the stats yu need to invest into, sacrificing durability.But in a 1v1?Power can definitely beat a Condi class fair and square.

Condi only stops being useful when yu are confronted with group vs group, and they have supports like Scrapper or Firebrands that remove condi or convert them.Then yu will see Condi become extremely horrible and could even buff the enemy if converted.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

One thing I learned is that the damage types you'll see are dependent on which server you're facing. ATM I can't find any clear cut answer to which is more dominant. Only which one I lose to more often, which is power, but that is build-specific.

It's hard to explain just how dominant power damage can get. Those Marauder builds, they kill before conditions can get stacked up. Condi builds need durability, because otherwise they'd drop before their conditions could do any real damage. Power builds don't need to win a war of attrition, they just need to win the immediate exchange. It's also hard to ambush somebody with conditions, since they leave enough time to be cleansed. However, a volley of Three Round Burst under quickness can drop someone before they know what is going on.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Yasai.3549 said:Condi only stops being useful when yu are confronted with group vs group, and they have supports like Scrapper or Firebrands that remove condi or convert them.Then yu will see Condi become extremely horrible and could even buff the enemy if converted.Which is only about 9 out of 10 small groups at 2 man or above. Everyone has a pocket healer following them like a little lost puppy nowadays. The ones that dont... well he's probably just not logged on yet.

[XenesisII.1540]

Condi is only good if you can get the drop on someone and they're not running cleanses, otherwise with the amount of support and cleanses around these days power is better, especially in zergs where condi's just feeds their boon conversions. I'm playing poison deadeye these days and half the specs I can't barely touch because of this.

[Salt Mode.3780]

not to mention sigil of cleansing in WvW cleanses 3 and if you put antitoxin its 4 on weapon swap.

[Sansar.1302]

@XenesisII.1540 said:Condi is only good if you can get the drop on someone and they're not running cleanses, otherwise with the amount of support and cleanses around these days power is better, especially in zergs where condi's just feeds their boon conversions. I'm playing poison deadeye these days and half the specs I can't barely touch because of this.

hmm when i play condi thief its like easy mode and in 95% of the fights the enemy have no chance, it is the class i have best results with in 1 vs 2-3 too (dont play condi rev bc how op it is)

but some classes have way better tools to be condi than other.

[Salt Mode.3780]

@Sansar.1302 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:Condi is only good if you can get the drop on someone and they're not running cleanses, otherwise with the amount of support and cleanses around these days power is better, especially in zergs where condi's just feeds their boon conversions. I'm playing poison deadeye these days and half the specs I can't barely touch because of this.

hmm when i play condi thief its like easy mode and in 95% of the fights the enemy have no chance, it is the class i have best results with in 1 vs 2-3 too (dont play condi rev bc how op it is)

but some classes have way better tools to be condi than other.

its because condi thieves can engage and disengage at well as well as chase and lock down. Not to mention the condi dmg coming from thief is poison which is the low priority list in terms of cleansing. I'm pretty sure it is last on the list in terms of order it needs to be cleanse which im not sure why considering it hinders healing.

[XenesisII.1540]

@Sansar.1302 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:Condi is only good if you can get the drop on someone and they're not running cleanses, otherwise with the amount of support and cleanses around these days power is better, especially in zergs where condi's just feeds their boon conversions. I'm playing poison deadeye these days and half the specs I can't barely touch because of this.

hmm when i play condi thief its like easy mode and in 95% of the fights the enemy have no chance, it is the class i have best results with in 1 vs 2-3 too (dont play condi rev bc how op it is)

but some classes have way better tools to be condi than other.

lol I didn't say it was hard, I'm saying condi is handled easily by certain specs, mainly scrappers and firebrand, tempest/ele, some rangers and warriors, sometimes even certain necros. I ran into a mm scourge that threw back all my condis and then some at me, couldn't do much to them. But when I get to dump my torment and confusion to the unaware they can drop like a rock easily. But there's a high number of pocket healers around these days which shuts down condi easier than power.

[Choppy.4183]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:Condi builds need durability, because otherwise they'd drop before their conditions could do any real damage. Power builds don't need to win a war of attrition, they just need to win the immediate exchange. It's also hard to ambush somebody with conditions, since they leave enough time to be cleansed.

That used to be the way a long time ago, but honestly, some condi builds can burst harder than some power builds, and often with less risk.

I don't really have a dog in the fight though.... I've traditionally gravitated toward full zerk power builds, but have played around with condi too and had fun doing it. I regularly kill (and am killed by) both power and condi builds all the time. Both have counterplay, and how much the deck is stacked towards one or the other seems to depend more on the circumstances of the fight (e.g. how many on each side, builds in play, use of terrain, and just how trash I am relative to the other player(s)).

[Jski.6180]

Condi dmg skills are over stack with condi effects and not enofe stacking of 1 condi type.

Power dmg needs too much to make it viable there needs to be a non crit power dmg build type.

[KrHome.1920]

@Salt Mode.3780 said:Not to mention the condi dmg coming from thief is poison which is the low priority list in terms of cleansing. I'm pretty sure it is last on the list in terms of order it needs to be cleanse which im not sure why considering it hinders healing.There is no priority list. Condi cleansing is: last in - first out, which means the last applied condition is the first you cleanse. Exceptions are only certain cleanses that cleanse specific conditions.

Condi vs. power: the moment a cleanse support joins a team, condi damage becomes extremely underwhelming, because one cleanse has the potential of cleansing the damage of multiple enemies, as a cleanse cleanses a whole stack.

I avoid running condi builds in team fights. The damage is too situational and too unreliable.

[Infusion.7149]

Unless it's burning good luck trying to kill something in less than 5 seconds with conditions. Even burning in PVE ticks for 1K damage running full glass condi builds with 25 might.Edit: and no, 5 seconds is not an arbitrary number. It's the length of time a well of corruption or winds of disenchantment lasts.

[Fueki.4753]

Given that Power damage depends on four stats (Power precision, Ferocity, enemy Toughness) and Conditions only depend on two stats (Condition Damage, Expertise) I agree that power damage should be higher.

[Svez Poizon XD.5268]

Reason why power is fine is because it is instant health cut, while conditions are cutting health every second.

[Sansar.1302]

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:Reason why power is fine is because it is instant health cut, while conditions are cutting health every second.

condi burst can be rly hig and almsot instant you know

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Sansar.1302 said:

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:Reason why power is fine is because it is instant health cut, while conditions are cutting health every second.

condi burst can be rly hig and almsot instant you know

Burns are only getting you about 500 dps per stack and they're by far the most threatening. So even a 10 stack burn is going to deal less damage per second than a good power skill, requires multiple skills to apply, usually along with setup, and can be cleansed after the fact. If you are dying to BIG burn ticks you messed up. Plain and simple. Now, if you are dying to 1k damage here, 1k damage there, in a battle of attrition? Well, that's how it usually goes (unless you mess up!) and does that not sound exactly like damage over time?

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

power is still better. every group needs some cleanse-healer anyways. over like 10 ppl groups, there's no serious usage for condi. surely, if ur having 30 condibots against 15 players, they may win... just eh. condi builds aren't legit. they work without much brain, that's why they can do work. pretty big damage, far too big actually, if the opposing group does not run cleansing support(and not, antitoxin runes and sigils are just odd memes, no legit thing anyone would run)

condi smallscale is the same level as the average oneshot ranger build or oneshot mesmer builds... opportunists can make it "work", just it isn't really any value in using these builds. like, every zerker build can gank ppl that are pre-damaged and have no support around. i know some smallscale players think that is some effort, but the only effort is to not go to close to the bigger group that buries your glasscannon under some siege drops, after u failed that gank.

[Salt Mode.3780]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Salt Mode.3780 said:Not to mention the condi dmg coming from thief is poison which is the low priority list in terms of cleansing. I'm pretty sure it is last on the list in terms of order it needs to be cleanse which im not sure why considering it hinders healing.There is no priority list. Condi cleansing is: last in - first out, which means the last applied condition is the first you cleanse. Exceptions are only certain cleanses that cleanse specific conditions.

Condi vs. power: the moment a cleanse support joins a team, condi damage becomes extremely underwhelming, because one cleanse has the potential of cleansing the damage of multiple enemies, as a cleanse cleanses a whole stack.

I avoid running condi builds in team fights. The damage is too situational and too unreliable.

Actually no when a thief applies nearly every condi on you poison is the last to be cleansed that is what it means by priority list. There is a difference between application vs priority.

[Shroud.2307]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Sansar.1302 said:

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:Reason why power is fine is because it is instant health cut, while conditions are cutting health every second.

condi burst can be rly hig and almsot instant you know

Burns are only getting you about 500 dps per stack and they're by far the most threatening. So even a 10 stack burn is going to deal less damage per second than a good power skill, requires multiple skills to apply, usually along with setup, and can be cleansed after the fact. If you are dying to BIG burn ticks you messed up. Plain and simple. Now, if you are dying to 1k damage here, 1k damage there, in a battle of attrition? Well, that's how it usually goes (unless you mess up!) and does that not sound exactly like damage over time?

Literally this.

Condi is not better in the vast majority of encounters. In some 1v1s or small scale fights it can be effective, but due to the high access to Cleanse that everything has, and assuming at least one support is present in a small scale fight, Condi is generally ineffective.

I will agree that Condi builds are more forgiving than Power as they often have much higher innate defenses, but as I'd said some time ago in a similar thread, Condi builds usually have to give up defenses in their traits and utilities. And with Condi damage being a form of attrition, it makes sense that it's allowed to build with more defensive gear since it often cannot afford defenses in other areas.

Also, lets not pretend Power builds are completely helpless. Being a Power build doesn't mean you have no defensive traits or skills, and if you're sacrificing everything to do as much damage as possible you need to be aware of your self imposed vulnerabilities.

There are some Condi builds that are obnoxious, but that doesn't mean Conditions are a problem overall or that Condi builds on every class are a problem.Cleansing Sigil is literally the singular most OP thing in WvW and I encourage everyone to have it on a weapon. Imagine if something existed that blocked all incoming attacks every 9 seconds on weapon swap. It's a little like that.

[Salt Mode.3780]

thanks for explaining why condi is the way it is....