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@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Nothing better illustrates how old the GW2 playerbase is than this topic. Twitch is huge, get one streamer behind your game and you get an influx. Even as an experimental thing, like Summit1G did last year; he decided to play GW2 for all of a week and he had 15-20k active viewers at ONE time. That's a lot of eyes.Those numbers had nothing to do with GW2. In fact, if he was mainly streaming gw2, those numbers would go much lower very fast. It's just not a game that lends itself to good and interetsing twitch streams. Not more than a few times anyway.

It works on youtube, but youtube viewership is different (and so are the types of content that fit that medium).

Twitch is best for competitive types of content (like PvP) - but in order to show that, this content needs to be visually interesting and easy to follow. That's not the case for GW2.

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Twitch actually has more people who follow raid/fractal content than anything else if you look across the majority of the big GW2 streamers and even some of the smaller ones. PvP is next in line, with PvE bringing up the rear (WvW is a footnote but it's not even supported by Anet right now so... expected, sadly).

What this current conversation seems to boil down to is people projecting their own personal - and subjective - opinion on what Twitch is to them and applying it to the greater masses despite that opinion not being true for quite a lot of people. If you want a game to grow and increase the number of eyes on it, what's wrong with utilizing a growing team of players who already are connected to one another and share their love of the game via streaming? We speak passionately about the things we like, the things we want to see, and have meaningful discussions about the state of the game and specialization speculations. When new players wander in to chat and ask for tips, our communities come in to give advice or even offer to team up in game. We help people find raid/fractal statics and pvp partners. There's quite a lot that happens on Twitch, and similar things must happen on Youtube given how several people I know who post there are also very popular and well-known in game.

Just because you personally don't care to use or watch a video/stream doesn't mean it's the worst idea on the planet for Arenanet to find a way to use content creators to breathe new life into the game. No one is forcing you to watch, but there's also little reason to knock those who do enjoy content created outside the game, either.

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@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:Did everyone forgot that time when they gave away purple glowy eyes for linking with twitch account?

Precedence is out there ;)

Man that was a while back...have had mine longer than I can remember! In the other games I've played, like World of Tanks and World of Warships, Twitch has done unique patterns and colors for camos, decals and flags as well as unique commander skins. I don't think players in those games are as in to fashion wars as they are here...Twitch would be better off giving out bland-looking legendaries than anything that borders on pay-to-win in fashion wars... ;)

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@Malchemist.1620 said:Twitch is a massive marketing tool that has a plethora of new customers to bring in. Content creators are also a huge way to bring those people in as they may have people watching them that dont play GW2. a common misconception of streamers is that people watch streams for the game, and while that is somewhat true, most people watch streamers for the streamer/content creator.

I think the one thing that it may have gotten lost in the post is that this isn't all about loot drops, but just getting eyeballs to look towards the prime loot screen is a huge thing on twitch. everyone sees loot there, like for instance I see loot all the time for games like GTA5, Fall Guys, indie games of all types and more. the more people see those notifications the more likely they are to click on the advertisement and redeem the prize you get from it.

It may also get older players who haven't logged into the game in awhile to come back to redeem the skin, and then see oh hey stuff has been added/changed maybe i should check that out.

as for loot drops, its a good way to bring in existing/new/incoming players to content creators that can find a community to join, have questions answered, and get referral links to the game if they decide to buy. I personally know a ton of people who look for streamers/content creators who are playing games they are looking into to watch how the game is in real time.

its a sound decision all around, no matter if some go to twitch or not. but with millions of eyes, you're bound to get a few to try the game out and thats the goal here. :)

Yes, it’s a massive market and GW2 ranks in the 200 viewership rank range. New players come and go all the time, with 10,000,000+ accounts created since launch, but with a fraction of that number for actual players and monthly concurrency numbers.

The devs already do stuff on twitch and some marketing campaign with free stuff won’t make this game, that’s been around for almost 10 years, more popular. And the devs have given out a bunch of free stuff over the years already, so more free stuff won’t do jack for the bottom line.

A more sound decision would have been to release xpacs more frequently and address some of the games very big shortcomings. And twitch is meaningless to that equation. Word of mouth, or in this case words on the web, carry more weight than free stuff on twitch.

Now don’t get me wrong, I spent many years and a lot of $ on this game, but twitch stuff carries far less meaning and weight compared to updates and improvements to the game, along with a few other really important areas that gamers really care about.

And out of curiosity, how long have you played gw2? Do you own the 2 xpacs? How much $ have you spent on this game?

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@Aerial Melodies.4938 said:Twitch actually has more people who follow raid/fractal content than anything else if you look across the majority of the big GW2 streamers and even some of the smaller ones. PvP is next in line, with PvE bringing up the rear (WvW is a footnote but it's not even supported by Anet right now so... expected, sadly).

What this current conversation seems to boil down to is people projecting their own personal - and subjective - opinion on what Twitch is to them and applying it to the greater masses despite that opinion not being true for quite a lot of people. If you want a game to grow and increase the number of eyes on it, what's wrong with utilizing a growing team of players who already are connected to one another and share their love of the game via streaming? We speak passionately about the things we like, the things we want to see, and have meaningful discussions about the state of the game and specialization speculations. When new players wander in to chat and ask for tips, our communities come in to give advice or even offer to team up in game. We help people find raid/fractal statics and pvp partners. There's quite a lot that happens on Twitch, and similar things must happen on Youtube given how several people I know who post there are also very popular and well-known in game.

Just because you personally don't care to use or watch a video/stream doesn't mean it's the worst idea on the planet for Arenanet to find a way to use content creators to breathe new life into the game. No one is forcing you to watch, but there's also little reason to knock those who do enjoy content created outside the game, either.

This is an important sentiment, I agree. More eyeballs is better, and getting more of those on GW2 always increases the chances of snagging a new player. Twitch can definitely help with that.

What I hate to see though, is Twitch being thrown around as some magic solution. It isn't, and if incorporating Twitch more centrally into a marketing strategy for ANet requires more effort than the team can spare, I'd say it's a dumb idea to pursue.

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@TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

@"Malchemist.1620" said:

Things you could do for twitch prime loot or loot drops:
-Exclusive twitch only skins that the player can equip, which would then drive more of the player base into twitch, creating a swirl of new eyeballs everywhere..

'Exclusive' skins that exclude longtime loyal players will almost certainly be a slap in the face to those players.They already do this, giving away the "Ascended Aurene" T-shirt outfit via their own or partner streams.Is your face currently being slapped?

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@TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

Things you could do for twitch prime loot or loot drops:
-Exclusive twitch only skins that the player can equip, which would then drive more of the player base into twitch, creating a swirl of new eyeballs everywhere..

'Exclusive' skins that exclude longtime loyal players will almost certainly be a slap in the face to those players.

Twitch doesnt exclude anything, only way to be excluded is if you want to exclude yourself.

The big reason I really think you guys need to branch out on twitch is because I specifically remember streaming one day, going to raid someone and at the very top of the list I saw Summit1g who was trying out GW2 thanks to his community recommending the game.

I'd be curious what % of the GW2 base ever even uses Twitch. Your view is its a large untapped reservoir of potential players - my view is that Twitch is already a niche audience and so is merely a tiny subset of potential players. Maybe the Twitchophiles are better at being evangelists for games they like than the average player? Maybe.

Its very easy to setup a twitch acount. It takes a minute maybe 2 tops and its actually very big marketing tool.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Nothing better illustrates how old the GW2 playerbase is than this topic. Twitch is huge, get one streamer behind your game and you get an influx. Even as an experimental thing, like Summit1G did last year; he decided to play GW2 for all of a week and he had 15-20k active viewers at ONE time. That's a lot of eyes.

But how many converted to long time players and how many just followed him to the next game?

More than there would be if he never streamed the game because they wouldnt be introduced to it in the first place.

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I know little about Twitch Loot. Do people really suddenly start watching streamers because they are giving out loot...for a game they don't play? Seems like mostly only current players would be interested.

The idea is that ppl who play check out the streams, that inflates viewership starts and bumbs the game higher in the directory which inherently puts it in the forefront. The higher a game is in the directory that higher the chances someone whill check it out.

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@"mindcircus.1506" said:They already do this, giving away the "Ascended Aurene" T-shirt outfit via their own or partner streams.Is your face currently being slapped?

I am not aware of this one, do you maybe have any link that would point me in direction of how it works? (and/or how the T-shirt outfit looks like)

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@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:They already do this, giving away the "Ascended Aurene" T-shirt outfit via their own or partner streams.Is your face currently being slapped?

I am not aware of this one, do you maybe have any link that would point me in direction of how it works? (and/or how the T-shirt outfit looks like)!. Anet or their partners give away codes on the streams the codes are DMed to the winners. They give them away in a variety of different ways. Partners give them away in any ways they choose. Codes are redeemed like any other codes in game.
  1. Wiki the outfit when the wiki is back up. Screenshots are there.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Malchemist.1620 said:Twitch is a massive marketing tool that has a plethora of new customers to bring in. Content creators are also a huge way to bring those people in as they may have people watching them that dont play GW2. a common misconception of streamers is that people watch streams for the game, and while that is somewhat true, most people watch streamers for the streamer/content creator.

I think the one thing that it may have gotten lost in the post is that this isn't all about loot drops, but just getting eyeballs to look towards the prime loot screen is a huge thing on twitch. everyone sees loot there, like for instance I see loot all the time for games like GTA5, Fall Guys, indie games of all types and more. the more people see those notifications the more likely they are to click on the advertisement and redeem the prize you get from it.

It may also get older players who haven't logged into the game in awhile to come back to redeem the skin, and then see oh hey stuff has been added/changed maybe i should check that out.

as for loot drops, its a good way to bring in existing/new/incoming players to content creators that can find a community to join, have questions answered, and get referral links to the game if they decide to buy. I personally know a ton of people who look for streamers/content creators who are playing games they are looking into to watch how the game is in real time.

its a sound decision all around, no matter if some go to twitch or not. but with millions of eyes, you're bound to get a few to try the game out and thats the goal here. :)

Yes, it’s a massive market and GW2 ranks in the 200 viewership rank range. New players come and go all the time, with 10,000,000+ accounts created since launch, but with a fraction of that number for actual players and monthly concurrency numbers.

The devs already do stuff on twitch and some marketing campaign with free stuff won’t make this game, that’s been around for almost 10 years, more popular. And the devs have given out a bunch of free stuff over the years already, so more free stuff won’t do jack for the bottom line.

A more sound decision would have been to release xpacs more frequently and address some of the games very big shortcomings. And twitch is meaningless to that equation. Word of mouth, or in this case words on the web, carry more weight than free stuff on twitch.

Now don’t get me wrong, I spent many years and a lot of $ on this game, but twitch stuff carries far less meaning and weight compared to updates and improvements to the game, along with a few other really important areas that gamers really care about.

And out of curiosity, how long have you played gw2? Do you own the 2 xpacs? How much $ have you spent on this game?

Im a beta veteran who has played with no breaks in the game and have spent thousands on the game. Im scared to know that number honestly lol

I have both expacs and at max mastery. I've been here for awhile.

The end goal is to get more new players to try the game. And this is a smart way to do so.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Malchemist.1620" said:

Things you could do for twitch prime loot or loot drops:
-Exclusive twitch only skins that the player can equip, which would then drive more of the player base into twitch, creating a swirl of new eyeballs everywhere..

'Exclusive' skins that exclude longtime loyal players will almost certainly be a slap in the face to those players.They already do this, giving away the "Ascended Aurene" T-shirt outfit via their own or partner streams.Is your face currently being slapped?

I never said they never did, and im not talking about randomly throwing codes to streamers. Im talking about a concerted effort to market to those who have yet to play.

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I still don't see how giving away in-game items markets to those who have 'yet to play'.I get emails often about this or that game giving away a code for this or that (no idea what the item is or what it is for), but it doesn't make me want to try the game.

You know, some of our most popular Content Creators/Partners/etc. have tried Twitch streaming, and it seems they never do it for long. /shrug

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@Malchemist.1620 said:

@Malchemist.1620 said:Twitch is a massive marketing tool that has a plethora of new customers to bring in. Content creators are also a huge way to bring those people in as they may have people watching them that dont play GW2. a common misconception of streamers is that people watch streams for the game, and while that is somewhat true, most people watch streamers for the streamer/content creator.

I think the one thing that it may have gotten lost in the post is that this isn't all about loot drops, but just getting eyeballs to look towards the prime loot screen is a huge thing on twitch. everyone sees loot there, like for instance I see loot all the time for games like GTA5, Fall Guys, indie games of all types and more. the more people see those notifications the more likely they are to click on the advertisement and redeem the prize you get from it.

It may also get older players who haven't logged into the game in awhile to come back to redeem the skin, and then see oh hey stuff has been added/changed maybe i should check that out.

as for loot drops, its a good way to bring in existing/new/incoming players to content creators that can find a community to join, have questions answered, and get referral links to the game if they decide to buy. I personally know a ton of people who look for streamers/content creators who are playing games they are looking into to watch how the game is in real time.

its a sound decision all around, no matter if some go to twitch or not. but with millions of eyes, you're bound to get a few to try the game out and thats the goal here. :)

Yes, it’s a massive market and GW2 ranks in the 200 viewership rank range. New players come and go all the time, with 10,000,000+ accounts created since launch, but with a fraction of that number for actual players and monthly concurrency numbers.

The devs already do stuff on twitch and some marketing campaign with free stuff won’t make this game, that’s been around for almost 10 years, more popular. And the devs have given out a bunch of free stuff over the years already, so more free stuff won’t do jack for the bottom line.

A more sound decision would have been to release xpacs more frequently and address some of the games very big shortcomings. And twitch is meaningless to that equation. Word of mouth, or in this case words on the web, carry more weight than free stuff on twitch.

Now don’t get me wrong, I spent many years and a lot of $ on this game, but twitch stuff carries far less meaning and weight compared to updates and improvements to the game, along with a few other really important areas that gamers really care about.

And out of curiosity, how long have you played gw2? Do you own the 2 xpacs? How much $ have you spent on this game?

Im a beta veteran who has played with no breaks in the game and have spent thousands on the game. Im scared to know that number honestly lol

I have both expacs and at max mastery. I've been here for awhile.

The end goal is to get more new players to try the game. And this is a smart way to do so.

Anet gives free stuff already and this is where we are at almost 10 years later, so why is it “a smart way to do so”?

GW2 has some great elements, but the reputation isn’t stellar in the mmo sphere, so how important is a free X compared to, let’s say, a substantial update?

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I still don't see how giving away in-game items markets to those who have 'yet to play'.I get emails often about this or that game giving away a code for this or that (no idea what the item is or what it is for), but it doesn't make me want to try the game.

You know, some of our most popular Content Creators/Partners/etc. have tried Twitch streaming, and it seems they never do it for long. /shrug

Havent Mukluk done it quite awhile ?

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A more sound decision would have been to release xpacs more frequently and address some of the games very big shortcomings. And twitch is meaningless to that equation. Word of mouth, or in this case words on the web, carry more weight than free stuff on twitch.

Now don’t get me wrong, I spent many years and a lot of $ on this game, but twitch stuff carries far less meaning and weight compared to updates and improvements to the game, along with a few other really important areas that gamers really care about.

And out of curiosity, how long have you played gw2? Do you own the 2 xpacs? How much $ have you spent on this game?

Another person who played since beta, was in the playtests for the new WvW maps - both, to be exact!, and owns both expansions at launch as well as having spent quite a bit on gems to help support the game. Since we seem to need credentials now, there's mine. (For the record, I'm firmly against this type of gatekeeping.)

Saying that Twitch is irrelevant while touting word of mouth is a pretty terrible example. Twitch is, quite literally, word of mouth. Just today I had 2 people wander into stream asking about the game and who decided to download the free to play to test it out. Last month I had several people drop by and I know at least converted to a full game. Other streamers I know have seen the same. Is it thousands of players a month? No. But some fresh faces is still better than none, and those are just the people who talk in chat. There are a lot of people who lurk and may get into the game from watching people play. I use Twitch a lot to discover new games I might like to try.

Again, no one is saying just give gem codes out on Twitch and move on. Asking Anet to better utilize a free marketing tool doesn't have to mean buying off players. A lot of spend time every stream reading off the sales or talking about the lore or discussing upcoming content to help hype it up. Having Anet back that with information we have access to and can share with our communities is free for them and can help them expand their reach.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I still don't see how giving away in-game items markets to those who have 'yet to play'.I get emails often about this or that game giving away a code for this or that (no idea what the item is or what it is for), but it doesn't make me want to try the game.

You know, some of our most popular Content Creators/Partners/etc. have tried Twitch streaming, and it seems they never do it for long. /shrug

Havent Mukluk done it quite awhile ?

He has! I know of several partners who have streamed the game for a couple of years now, and plenty more who are not partners that also actively stream the game a lot.

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@Aerial Melodies.4938 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:I still don't see how giving away in-game items markets to those who have 'yet to play'.I get emails often about this or that game giving away a code for this or that (no idea what the item is or what it is for), but it doesn't make me want to try the game.

You know, some of our most popular Content Creators/Partners/etc. have tried Twitch streaming, and it seems they never do it for long. /shrug

Havent Mukluk done it quite awhile ?

He has! I know of several partners who have streamed the game for a couple of years now, and plenty more who are not partners that also actively stream the game a lot.

Yeah there are a ton of content creators who have been streaming awhile. alot of new ones too.

i also think its silly to gatekeep, its like when someone on twitter says your opinion doesnt matter because you dont have a lot of followers. it doesnt make my opinion any less viable.

trust us guys, there are content creators in here talking and trying to tell you, me included, that know that marketing on twitch will help. its not "free loot" but a way to get new people motivated to click on links and give things a try.

any marketing is better than no marketing.

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@"Malchemist.1620" said:

any marketing is better than no marketing.

nd1kEwj.jpg

Twitch and YouTube are both awful platforms. YouTube is geared towards people not tech-savvy enough to use ad blockers and is full of low quality clickbait for that reason. Twitch used to be about gaming but has since shifted to focus on selling parasocial relationships since the big bucks come from people who think they are establishing a genuine connection with streamers by throwing money at them. Those eyeballs on big name streamers are there not because of the game but because of the streamer and unless the streamer is an active player of the game (instead of streaming it a few times then moving on to something else) the eyeballs don't get converted to players, much less payers.

Twitch drops on their own won't convince them to go through the process of creating an account and downloading gigabytes of data just so they could check out what the reward is. Active players who have the stream going for the drops do boost the ranking of the game but once again that's not enough on its own unless some bigshot streamer becomes an active player and herds their flock of sheep towards the game.

To be frank with you, and I admit that this is cynical of me, I'm glad this game doesn't attract those folk. WoW has plenty of them and they're very fair-weather players who exclusively flock around their streamer of choice and engage in questionable behaviour, often to the detriment of other players, so that "senpai" notices them.

/edit/

Speaking of terrible advertisement, I just remembered this sad video. Never forgetti that regretti.

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@Malchemist.1620 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:I still don't see how giving away in-game items markets to those who have 'yet to play'.I get emails often about this or that game giving away a code for this or that (no idea what the item is or what it is for), but it doesn't make me want to try the game.

You know, some of our most popular Content Creators/Partners/etc. have tried Twitch streaming, and it seems they never do it for long. /shrug

Havent Mukluk done it quite awhile ?

He has! I know of several partners who have streamed the game for a couple of years now, and plenty more who are not partners that also actively stream the game a lot.

Yeah there are a ton of content creators who have been streaming awhile. alot of new ones too.

i also think its silly to gatekeep, its like when someone on twitter says your opinion doesnt matter because you dont have a lot of followers. it doesnt make my opinion any less viable.

trust us guys, there are content creators in here talking and trying to tell you, me included, that know that marketing on twitch will help. its not "free loot" but a way to get new people motivated to click on links and give things a try.

any marketing is better than no marketing.

Sorry, but creators are mostly on twitch for personal and self-serving reasons. A free quaggan hat over twitch isn’t going to do squat to market this game or feed the bottom line.

And Anet does advertise and market the game, but they are slow to make meaningful and substantial updates. Xpacs have been way too infrequent, profession development and “balance” updates are infrequent as well and often miss the marks entirely, the pvp and wvw sides are atrocious still, the struggling engine, and other issues... are why GW2 is where it’s at...

And the best marketing Anet could do is addressing issues and updating the game, then advertise those things... not catering to individuals on twitch who are in it for their own personal reasons, who count success by view, clicks and likes on their channel.

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so tell me then, would you rather they do nothing on twitch? nothing for marketing?

marketing means bringing people into the game. people lead to money spent on the game, money spent on the game leads to higher profits, higher profits means more money going into developing the game we all love, and hiring more people to make more content. content doesnt just grow on trees.

again and i will continue to repeat myself, this isnt about the individual streamers, but about the collective that will generate more influx into gw2. these actions will lead to that.

also the thought that twitch streamers are deplorable or are in it for their own gain is far from the truth especially when it comes to this community. there are many wonderful content creators that i have had the pleasure of meeting and befriending. Try joining in on some of those communities because it is fun and welcoming.

take some time and think about my post. I just want what is best for GW2. Marketing to something is better than marketing to nothing.

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