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Sorry, but creators are mostly on twitch for personal and self-serving reasons. A free quaggan hat over twitch isn’t going to do squat to market this game or feed the bottom line.

And Anet does advertise and market the game, but they are slow to make meaningful and substantial updates. Xpacs have been way too infrequent, profession development and “balance” updates are infrequent as well and often miss the marks entirely, the pvp and wvw sides are atrocious still, the struggling engine, and other issues... are why GW2 is where it’s at...

And the best marketing Anet could do is addressing issues and updating the game, then advertise those things... not catering to individuals on twitch who are in it for their own personal reasons, who count success by view, clicks and likes on their channel.

Oh... how many things to address in here...

The fact you think Anet does any type of advertising for this game on a meaningful level shows a clear lack of understanding of the field of marketing. As someone who is actually in the marketing field with years of experience, I know how much hard work companies have to put in to make themselves known as well as utilizing influencers to expand their reach even further. Anyone predating the internet will think otherwise, but those of us who watch global trends know that the future is digital and the power of marketing online is huge. Considering this game is played online, Anet can and should tap into these currently unused resources. If Anet is marketing this game, they're doing a poor job of it. If I didn't tell people about the upcoming sales on gems... none of my friends would know. That's not advertising as you claim it to be if five people know about a sale.

You're mad that you're not being catered to. We get it. The game isn't up to your standards, and that's fine. But to then take that pent up anger and accuse other people of just using Anet to get rich on Twitch (lol?) is a bit over the top. When you assume the worst in people, you show the worst in yourself. Writing off an entire community of people because you hate Twitch or Youtube isn't going to gain you players. It's going to show them the dark side of the in-game community and that's really not the goal here. It's amazing to me that something as benign as playing with the community is this abrasive to the GW2 community when other games that tend to be far more toxic actually embrace it. Wild.

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I'm guessing the Marketing Team isn't so unaware that they have not considered Twitch, especially when this very topic has been discussed on the forums before.If a content creator wants goodies to give away to their viewers, I'm sure they are welcome to apply to become an ArenaNet Partner (on Twitch) or an Affiliate (on Twitch).

https://welcome.guildwars2.com/en/partner-programhttps://welcome.guildwars2.com/en/affiliate-program

So, it seems ArenaNet supports Twitch and its content creators; it has yet to find reason to support Loot Drops, which is what the OP suggested.

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@Malchemist.1620 said:so tell me then, would you rather they do nothing on twitch? nothing for marketing?

marketing means bringing people into the game. people lead to money spent on the game, money spent on the game leads to higher profits, higher profits means more money going into developing the game we all love, and hiring more people to make more content. content doesnt just grow on trees.

again and i will continue to repeat myself, this isnt about the individual streamers, but about the collective that will generate more influx into gw2. these actions will lead to that.

also the thought that twitch streamers are deplorable or are in it for their own gain is far from the truth especially when it comes to this community. there are many wonderful content creators that i have had the pleasure of meeting and befriending. Try joining in on some of those communities because it is fun and welcoming.

take some time and think about my post. I just want what is best for GW2. Marketing to something is better than marketing to nothing.

Marketing is promoting or selling a product. And this 10yo aging product is already well know, hence the 10,000,000 accounts created since launch. Twitch gimmicks won’t feed this game, it will only help the twitchers. And yes, most content creators are in it for themselves.

Even if GW2 wasn’t streamed at all, I guarantee that we would still see the same financials and numbers that we do now. Twitch is a negligible contribution to the grand scheme of GW2.

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Then you clearly do not understand the impact of content creators and streamers to a video game. No matter how old a game is, influencers and creators can breathe new life into things. Its a well known fact. Ignoring that and not doing anything "because the game is too old" is basically saying you'd rather give up on it than see it grow just because its no longer a new shiny. If you truly believe in this game you'd do anything for it.

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@TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

@"Malchemist.1620" said:

Things you could do for twitch prime loot or loot drops:
-Exclusive twitch only skins that the player can equip, which would then drive more of the player base into twitch, creating a swirl of new eyeballs everywhere..

'Exclusive' skins that exclude longtime loyal players will almost certainly be a slap in the face to those players.

The big reason I really think you guys need to branch out on twitch is because I specifically remember streaming one day, going to raid someone and at the very top of the list I saw Summit1g who was trying out GW2 thanks to his community recommending the game.

I'd be curious what % of the GW2 base ever even uses Twitch. Your view is its a large untapped reservoir of potential players - my view is that Twitch is already a niche audience and so is merely a tiny subset of potential players. Maybe the Twitchophiles are better at being evangelists for games they like than the average player? Maybe.

You don't know much about modern gaming if you consider Twitch "niche"...

Nice ideas OP, I've also seen some games let streamers do something called "drops" so by watching gw2 streams you can earn in game drops, and it doesn't have to be anything exclusive/rare but something useful, say, black lion salvage kit, makeover kit, etc. Small tokens of appreciation to player base and ones that will only boost game popularity and hopefully, as consequence, the player base.

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@"Malchemist.1620" said:Then you clearly do not understand the impact of content creators and streamers to a video game. No matter how old a game is, influencers and creators can breathe new life into things. Its a well known fact.That is however very dependant on the game itself - some games are far better for this purpose than others. This is also a known fact.

Ignoring that and not doing anything "because the game is too old" is basically saying you'd rather give up on it than see it grow just because its no longer a new shiny. If you truly believe in this game you'd do anything for it.It's not about this game being too old. It's about this game population consisting mostly of players that do not watch twitch. And will not watch twitch unless you will start giving them legendaries for that (and often not even then).

The thing is, twitch aims mostly for 2 groups of viewers.

One group are those that watch the streamers, not the games those streamers play. Getting that group to watch GW2 streams is not going to help anyone except the streamer. And, if the streamer is popular, it would probably hurt their viewership, which would cause them to move on and take their followers with them.

Second group are people that play certain types of very specific content - generally competitive ones.Those types of content are extremely niche in gw2. They are also not very visually interesting, so they don't lend themselves well to be streamed. And most of players from those modes that could be pulled to twitch are already there.

Additionally, it so happens that those types of content are not only niche in gw2, but are currently for the most part abandoned by devs. Putting some effort into revitalizing those types of content would do far more for twitch viewership than tossing some freebies and marketing there. That's because increasing twitch viewership by a slight amount for a content that is abandoned is not going to translate into greater player numbers. On the contrary, it's likely to translate into even more bad PR and dissatisfaction.

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@Malchemist.1620 said:marketing means bringing people into the game. people lead to money spent on the game, money spent on the game leads to higher profits, higher profits means more money going into developing the game we all love, and hiring more people to make more content.

Does this solve the issue of them ignoring content? You can't make content without money. Getting more devs hired because they make more money quite literally is the solution to bringing content back to PVP.

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Yes. I read about raids and stuff. And that this is popular on Twitch. (And also some something of this exists or existed for GW2.) But you have to keep in mind: The main target audience of GW2 is actually players that do not play PvP and/or raids. Focus should be on the PvE content (story and stuff) then. Especially when new releases happen and maybe when achievements are done.

Even if the general audience on Twitch might be lower ... the conversion "twitch watcher" -> (turnin into a new) "GW2 player" might still be better in the end. I mean if 10k people watch GW2 some raid stuff and say "cool but I'd still prefer the other games that mainly focus on raiding) and maybe only 10 are starting to play GW2 ... it would be worse then 1k watching PvE content and 50 starting to play GW2. (If less people on Twitch watch PvE content ... but the one that might watch ... are more likely to like the game.)

I wonder ... did people like Dulfy and AyinMaiden stream? I saw some of the vids on YouTube and Dulfy always had been popular for PvE - for their guides. At least from AyinMaiden it seems her vids on YouTube were cut from some stream.


Edit: Also Astralporing seems to have hinted at this with his "second group" explanation for Twitch. Maybe a reason why I personally never liked streaming. (Couldn't really get into watching them.) I do not like streamers themselves - too much eccentric some of them. I'd rather play a game instead of watching others playing it. And just watching them is not fun. (Group one.) Also I prefer not the content mentioned as being dominant on Twitch (PvP and raids and stuff) but instead the exploration, JPs and doing achievements and story and stuff.

I have always prefered classic reviews where someone just explains the core/interesting parts of the game. Instead of playing hours and hours of stuff where I can't really get a good whole impression of the game when it focuses on one aspect while a good review conveys a lot of info in a short amount of time. Have not watched that many reviews - cause reading (text instead of vid) is even faster and more efficient for me. But TotalBiscuit (saw a few of his vids - a shame he died way too early) had great videos.

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@"Malchemist.1620" said:Then you clearly do not understand the impact of content creators and streamers to a video game. No matter how old a game is, influencers and creators can breathe new life into things. Its a well known fact. Ignoring that and not doing anything "because the game is too old" is basically saying you'd rather give up on it than see it grow just because its no longer a new shiny. If you truly believe in this game you'd do anything for it.

First, you assume most gamers don’t know about gw2, or that it’s free to play, that’s why I brought up the age of the game...

Second, GW2 is almost 10yo and it’s been out long enough for people to know of its existence, but you think twitch and streamers are the holy grail of marketing to bring in players and bring back the millions of players who already started an account that no longer play... wrong.

Third, this game has major issues. Raid development dropped due to lack of player interest. Wvw is in a black hole with no updates or alliances in years. Spvp has always been a mess and dropped long ago by ESL. Been over a year now since we were told major balance updates would come. Balance update mostly miss the marks and create more issue in wvw and spvp. No mirrored wvw rewards as mentioned. Game engine. Limitations due to engine and old coding. Takes forever and a day to produce an xpac. Certain other poor reputations out in the mmo sphere... but you think free stuff over Twitch will be the bee’s knees of marketing, although Anet is already on twitch regularly, streamers already stream gw2, and the team does giveaways and free stuff all the time... yet it still ranks in the 200 range after all these years and has been the 2nd lowest earner in the NC family. But ignore all the facts thinking free stuff over twitch is where it’s at, compared to substantial things that can be used to market the game in meaningful ways.

Lastly, you said you were a twitch streamer so have you streamed GW2? Did you apply to be a partner with Anet to help promote the game? Did you host your own GW2 giveaways like other twitchers and youtubers have done over the years? ... and if you haven’t done those things, then why not? I mean if your intention is to grow GW2, as opposed to just wanting free stuff over twitch, don’t you think you should work on being a community leader on twitch for GW2?

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Yes Ayinmaiden streams and I love her content. I also stream alongside her on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays to do PVE content like raids, fractals, story content, infusion trains and alot more. We stream things as they come out.

This is not about free loot. Im not sure how many times I have to repeat myself its about marketing. Yall still don't listen to what I have to say and still ignore it and keep throwing out the same arguments every single time I check on this thread.

-Some marketing is better than no marketing

-This isn't about free stuff to streamers its about get new people motivated to click the link to try GW2, twitch prime and getting the GW2 higher in the game categories would literally drive more people to watch and get involved. Thats literally how that works.

-If you go to any MMO youtube content creator who covers GW2 you always see people in the comments asking about Gw2, and the fact that they do not know about it.

-It is a well known fact by many, people start playing a game by word of mouth and twitch is a PERFECT place for that

-Your issue of no content for pvp would directly benefit from this move as it will bring in more money, I am not sure why you seem so against it unless you're deliberately trying to be contrary

Are we gate keeping again? Okay here:

-I stream GW2 4 days a week. Things from Story, to fractals, to raids, festivals, achievements and any new content.

-I have applied for partner, and I am currently a GW2 affiliate. I have my own link and have shoutouts on stream to promote gw2 when I can especially when sales happen.

-I retweet and promote any upcoming events, sales and other things on twitter, discord, and more.

-I host a biweekly giveaway to promote any upcoming events or content in GW2 by creating a coloring page of said topic so that my community can relax and do something fun and calming. If they can't color, or don't want to, I provide 2 other ways to enter and even have an entry on my stream in case they don't have twitter. I provide a prize for whichever name is drawn randomly, to provide a fair chance to all who get involved.

-I also host giveaways on live streams when I can provide them to my community almost every day.

-I have a discord where all gw2 news is posted, dialogue is had about the game and is where I post all giveaways and news.

-I run a 9 year old guild that started PRE Beta for GW2, and I do my best to run events and get people involved.

-I also help with a charity group that is based in Guild Wars 2, gamersgivingback, and im the art manager for the team. We do charity events inside Guild Wars 2 throughout the year, and also a stream team event where we fundraise for charities like the Canadian Cancer Society, Multiple Sclerosis Society of Canada, Rainbow Road, and our stream team raises money for World Child Cancer. We do giveaways and prizes throughout these events to promote the event and GW2.

'I am also a commander and partner with the TP Overflow Guild, where I run infusion trains and METAs twice a week, and lead trains for them and a sister guild of TP.

-We are also about to start a raid training group for our community and the GW2 community, and getting other GW2 streamers involved.

Lastly:-I love Guild Wars 2. I want it to succeed.

-I stream, and know the inner workings of content creation because I'm in it. I've been streaming for Guild Wars 2 for 2.5 years, played it since BETA

-I do giveaways out of my own pocket, and have no monetary gain from doing so.

-I create coloring pages that take time and effort to draw, but get no return for it because I can't, but that doesn't stop me from posting a new one. The coloring page event is now 1.5 years old.

-I do not want more free stuff to giveaway. I want a concerted effort to bring in more people and to grow the game further than what it is now.

Please don't assume that everyone is in it for their own gain. That is far from the truth.

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@Redfeather.6401 said:Two of the games I play do twitch drops and whenever drops are enabled it is quite a boost to viewers and that gets streams noticed by people who don't know what the game is like.

Exactly :) thank you for this and I agree completely. More eyeballs on the game is the end goal and getting gw2 up there on top categories will only help <3

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@Malchemist.1620 said:

@Redfeather.6401 said:Two of the games I play do twitch drops and whenever drops are enabled it is quite a boost to viewers and that gets streams noticed by people who don't know what the game is like.

Exactly :) thank you for this and I agree completely. More eyeballs on the game is the end goal and getting gw2 up there on top categories will only help <3

Yes, YOUR end game goal is more views, and the more popular a game is your viewership goes up. YOU benefit more directly from that. Views don’t mean paying customers, and I guarantee the trickledown from viewer to paying customer is negligible.

Meanwhile, the end goal of Anet and NC soft isn’t twitch eyeballs, it’s $$$ on their monthly financial reports. And that’s achieved by fixing the game, following through on years old words and promises, updating professions more frequently, balancing professions more frequently, not burning bridges with players, putting out substantial updates and Xpacs in more timely manners... Those are marketable, generate web words of mouth, and translate to $$$... and it’s those things that indirectly increase twitch views at the end of the day. Not the other way around.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Redfeather.6401" said:Two of the games I play do twitch drops and whenever drops are enabled it is quite a boost to viewers and that gets streams noticed by people who don't know what the game is like.

Exactly :) thank you for this and I agree completely. More eyeballs on the game is the end goal and getting gw2 up there on top categories will only help <3

Yes, YOUR end game goal is more views, and the more popular a game is your viewership goes up. YOU benefit more directly from that. Views don’t mean paying customers, and I guarantee the trickledown from viewer to paying customer is negligible.

Meanwhile, the end goal of Anet and NC soft isn’t twitch eyeballs, it’s $$$ on their monthly financial reports. And that’s achieved by fixing the game, following through on years old words and promises, updating professions more frequently, balancing professions more frequently, not burning bridges with players, putting out substantial updates and Xpacs in more timely manners... Those are marketable, generate web words of mouth, and translate to $$$... and it’s those things that indirectly increase twitch views at the end of the day. Not the other way around.

Then tell me how they should fix that?

If your answer is "put in more work" or "just get it done" developers need what to survive? What do they need to work on those things? How are anet able to bring on more employees?

Money.

They have an income and that is why we get updates. Its why the game is still here. But you know how they get more done? Market more. Do more on twitch. Get more eyeballs to the game website and get more people to play.

Then and only then can they put the devs who are working on the current game and keeping us entertained to other areas, like alliances, or new pvp maps or changes that will bring the very thing you want.

These changes do not happen without money. They do not happen because the playerbase tells them to do it. The devs have to live and eat and work and they have to be paid.

I did not make this post to benefit me. I did not make this post for clout. I did not make this post to get free stuff, and I did not make this post for any gain whatsoever.

I made this post so that I can voice my opinion and the opinion of the many content creators I play with, some of who have marketing degrees, so that I can try and give some feedback to the devs because I love them, and I love the game and its community and I want it to prosper.

There was no intention even a little bit that this was to promote me or anyone else, and that is why I never even included any links to any of my sites because that isn't why I'm here.

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@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:Did everyone forgot that time when they gave away purple glowy eyes for linking with twitch account?

Precedence is out there ;)

Sure it is. And if that trail yielded postive results, I'm thinking they would have done it again. But if they didn't see results from that, they might not be so fast to waste time and energy doing it. My guess is, they tried it, it didn't work and they moved on. I could be wrong of course, but I don't see why they wouldn't do it again if it worked.

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@Malchemist.1620 said:so tell me then, would you rather they do nothing on twitch? nothing for marketing?

marketing means bringing people into the game. people lead to money spent on the game, money spent on the game leads to higher profits, higher profits means more money going into developing the game we all love, and hiring more people to make more content. content doesnt just grow on trees.

again and i will continue to repeat myself, this isnt about the individual streamers, but about the collective that will generate more influx into gw2. these actions will lead to that.

also the thought that twitch streamers are deplorable or are in it for their own gain is far from the truth especially when it comes to this community. there are many wonderful content creators that i have had the pleasure of meeting and befriending. Try joining in on some of those communities because it is fun and welcoming.

take some time and think about my post. I just want what is best for GW2. Marketing to something is better than marketing to nothing.

I think there are ways to advertise this game that don't involve twitch that I'd prefer. You say they're doing nothing but it's not the case. I'm getting ads when I go to various sites. They even put up giant billboards in cities a year or two ago. But this game has really always worked on word of mouth.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Malchemist.1620 said:so tell me then, would you rather they do nothing on twitch? nothing for marketing?

marketing means bringing people into the game. people lead to money spent on the game, money spent on the game leads to higher profits, higher profits means more money going into developing the game we all love, and hiring more people to make more content. content doesnt just grow on trees.

again and i will continue to repeat myself, this isnt about the individual streamers, but about the collective that will generate more influx into gw2. these actions will lead to that.

also the thought that twitch streamers are deplorable or are in it for their own gain is far from the truth especially when it comes to this community. there are many wonderful content creators that i have had the pleasure of meeting and befriending. Try joining in on some of those communities because it is fun and welcoming.

take some time and think about my post. I just want what is best for GW2. Marketing to something is better than marketing to nothing.

I think there are ways to advertise this game that don't involve twitch that I'd prefer. You say they're doing nothing but it's not the case. I'm getting ads when I go to various sites. They even put up giant billboards in cities a year or two ago. But this game has really always worked on word of mouth.

This is true word of mouth works, but thats like the soul of twitch :) I misspoke with that, didn't mean that they don't market, they just don't market on twitch. I think that may have gotten lost in my post though and I apologize.

If they can find another way to market thats great, this was just a post to provide an opinion on why I think twitch is a good option :)

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@Malchemist.1620 said:

@Malchemist.1620 said:so tell me then, would you rather they do nothing on twitch? nothing for marketing?

marketing means bringing people into the game. people lead to money spent on the game, money spent on the game leads to higher profits, higher profits means more money going into developing the game we all love, and hiring more people to make more content. content doesnt just grow on trees.

again and i will continue to repeat myself, this isnt about the individual streamers, but about the collective that will generate more influx into gw2. these actions will lead to that.

also the thought that twitch streamers are deplorable or are in it for their own gain is far from the truth especially when it comes to this community. there are many wonderful content creators that i have had the pleasure of meeting and befriending. Try joining in on some of those communities because it is fun and welcoming.

take some time and think about my post. I just want what is best for GW2. Marketing to something is better than marketing to nothing.

I think there are ways to advertise this game that don't involve twitch that I'd prefer. You say they're doing nothing but it's not the case. I'm getting ads when I go to various sites. They even put up giant billboards in cities a year or two ago. But this game has really always worked on word of mouth.

This is true word of mouth works, but thats like the soul of twitch :) I misspoke with that, didn't mean that they don't market, they just don't market on twitch. I think that may have gotten lost in my post though and I apologize.

If they can find another way to market thats great, this was just a post to provide an opinion on why I think twitch is a good option :)

Maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon (actually there's no maybe about it lol), but I'd rather not see a bunch of twitch viewers rocking up in here. I've sat and watched twitch chat during promotions and streams and I find that as a whole it's just disruptive bordering on rude. Again it might be a generational thing, but there's are people who'd make this community better and people who'd make this community less welcoming and friendly. It happened a bit when the game went free to play.

At the end of the day, I'd rather have more people who are community minded and less people who are disruptive. Again, I could be completely wrong. But Twitch is filled with people who are essentially there to watch a train wreck. I'm not sure how healthy it would be for the game.

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It depends on the streamer and yeah there are a good bit of negative/rude people, it kinda goes with any community. But in communities that I've been apart of or have seen they are super supportive, down to earth and I love coming into those chats. Like I said its dependent on how the streamer deals with things.

Guild Wars 2 fostered a great community, and I don't think a few bad apples coming in will ruin that, I think more than likely new players will find something they like, and grow into the game like we all have :)

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I think that the general view is different.They can use their main Gw2 twitch channel for that but it will only attract existing or returning players not new.Those big big channels are big because of the streamer not the game they are playing.If someone small will play and has a giveaway will be only his regular viewers, the rest of the world wouldnt know.

The problem with Gw2 is that the game doesnt have new players, for new people its not attractive, its an old 2012 game with not updated graphics. People can agree or disagree but that's the truth that a new player see.Postponing Steam release for the new expansion...bad idea, good for the already players but that wont increase the numbers of new players, the visibility of being in Steam and release the new expansion there, could attract many people.

Uploading videos to youtube is the best way to catch people and re direct them to a twitch channel as youtube videos many times are randomly recommended or associated to another mmo.

What its for sure is that Anet needs money to continue in the business and they need to invest on marketing, improve their engine and create something new if they want to grow as a company.

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just to through my two cents in here, i discovered GW2 by getting a Mukluk stream vod recommended in my youtube home page. if not for his twitch stream they would not have sold both expansions(Ultimate ed.) and 100USD in gems. banner ads and email blasts are a fart in the wind compared to happening accross a person showing you why their game is amazing. and i do think it is amazing... so much that i quit my 13 year old account in WoW because Muk showed me how fun the game could be. if he hadn't showed me i would not have made it past lv 10. This can go for any streamer as well.

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