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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I find it interesting that the communication indicates what Anet is doing to monitor performance. it was always suspected but the language in the OP confirms it. If there is ever a similar approach to communicating with players about PVE, it will be interesting and concerning if meta is what is being used to drive class changes as the performance of a thing at the play levels where meta is relevant do not hold the same significance at non-meta play levels.

Meta means :
highest reward for the least amount of effort
, I believe it's obviously the best candidate for balance, not once in the history of this game we had a meta with high risk builds.....not once, every balance patch should always target these builds above anything else

Yes, that's the 'interesting' part I'm talking about ... clearly in a game where meta ISN'T the balancing target in PVE, the idea they are even looking at it should be concerning because of how it will impact new content. Like always, I suspect that Anet has their own definition for what meta is, based on the language used in the OP; I'm sure many people will be bringing torches and pitchforks if we start seeing some contradictions in meta balancing efforts, even in PVP.

Meta is definitely the balancing target in PvE! Heck they massacred ele with nerfs for years due to RAIDS, Dungeons :

-Icebow nerfs due to Dungeon-Fireweaver and Staff due to golem benchmarketc etc etc

And yes I can believe and expect people to be outraged if they nerf anything but meta, I would be one of those people taking up torches and pitchforks, that's how you balance your game....really try to keep it afloat for one more year. The most hilarious part though it's those people getting angry and the balance patches when they don't work in their favor.

Nerf spellbreaker...nerf mirage...nerf weaver...nerf ranger....nerf holosmith and suddenly you see 3 revs per team during an AT final...then they nerf the rev and :"oh now rev is dead...other professions are still OP though"..kitten?!

It's time for people to realize that the more you nerf your counter...the more nerfs you will receive after

The core where it started :

  • You can guess who was responsible and how clever all this was but fact is people were constantly complain about Ele I saw that too.

They always pushed against the cast build who done more dmg in the past at some point the developers were listing to them.To understand this people should know that the cast build have slower ramp up time(burst), lower hp, light armor, complicated rotation, at least this right for ele and mesmer , necro is a bit different.

What they pushed for in result(because you want the opposite) was that heavy armour, simple rota, high hp with high burst make the same dmg or even more dmg then cast builds. Something like Burn DH was what they always wanted . This is not all true all at the same time always a but you can see the direction, Flame-thrower Holo is a similar problem.

Ele Situation :*We are screwed . I mean my main is also ele which I played in all game modes.Only on the edge it is still accepted what I mean with this is :

PvP ) Power Weaver was seen somewhere around 2019 I think since then not, Condi Weaver you see sometimes but to get it to make an impact you need to be an insane good player which needs constantly watch his boons.

Which means it is not an viable option for AT if you take them serious. I play because of the changes to the fire trait/might generation Condi Tempest which I call Ying-Yang Evil Karma build. (You can guess why it got the name)^^

Basically to summarize Power Weaver not viable, Power Tempest not viable, Core ELe not viable, Condi Weaver just viable for a few and not Meta in anyway, My YYEK I would say is viable but not meta (also not public).

WvW.)For Roamer roughly the same as for SPvP and Heal Tempest since the shout nerf not Meta any more(only guild intern). Staff Weaver is also out of meta for the most part because guild with their near perma superspeed can 'evade' all pulsing dmg (which is for the most part come from cast builds). With evade I mean you move straight trough it and the server says there is nobody only when you are unlucky you get hit.(and then you have still aegis on you)

PvE and I go deeper into traits (all modes)) :'( :'( :'(It is still meta for DRM and t4 fractal and open world . The problem is power weaver is out for CM fractals and raids because of the low burst in compare to Soulbeast but also doesn't over boons like others and also needs like no other build. Sound like a mystery?

1.)They lowered the burst of ele by changing how Persisting flames work because it takes 10sec until you have the full 10% extra dmg. Which makes the disadvantage in burst even greater then it already previously already was.

2.) It only a side not Ele has with the wind trait line not a reliable source for fury Raging Storm generate for 2s fury but it internal cooldown is 3s .This is mentionable because HFB also can only give a small burst of fury . Also mentionable is that Stormsoul and raging Storm are equally increase dmg by 10% but Stormsoul is only viable in pre-made groups(static). What this also tells is that golem DPS and real DPS in not comparable because you have perma boons in the trainings area. Other classes in Meta can keep up their fury up on their own

3)On the other side Soulbeast has 2x the bust of most other classes and if we talk about power dmg in fractals. Pre nerf Weaver was able to get to the level of DH and BS by pre buffing tons of stuff which doesn't help to bring it up to this level any more..

4.)I must confess this all comes only hard to case when you play without healer or others said when you really hard optimize which goes further then Arena.Net can imagine. In the past qFB first as condi then as power was used now even this is too fancy qDH is the new kid on the block .

What basically happens it that guilds try to skip more and more on boon duration which hurt potential the ele because low quickness(it still a cast build) and low alacrity(attunement change) hurt the build on the other said the lower and lower burst duration doesn't let play out Weavers sustain dmg so that we have already reach the point where Ele is viable any more for this kind of content.

5) Ah nearly forgot what is with condi builds.? Besides way to complex the different between golem and out there strikes again. In theory condi weaver is really strong but cFB is just stronger with his ability to reset Tomb of Justice and SoJ and what really breaks it with each cFB the dps in general increase because they buff each other with Ash of Justice . I heard in raids they can go up to 30 stacks~. So nobody use Condi Weaver except perhaps for personal challenge.

Summarize: for farming it is till good enough built for everything remotely competitive it is not viable any more

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FIX Ele dagger auto attack plz..........has infinite range and no line of sight

Give the Revs the old Sword 2 (straight line , single target , pierce ) and make it so it does 10% Remaining HP damage per hit , if you have Assasin or Berseker Amulet . Or Rev Speciallized Amulet , with less stats , but increase the effect of 1 major attack to avoid . And a UI icon in the Bar , so we can see which attack it is .Second Amulet with even less stats >>2 attack to worry aboutThe same to , Reaper + Core , Shroud 4 .Both have the most counter-play in all the game - are Slow

They would be easily be hunted by Thieves and Mesmers and any other high mobility from the next expansion (necro or ranger? which is the boring-est bunker and its better to run ?)

edit2: Or the Map have resources >> Increase the effect of Sword 2 , 10 sec cd , 2 chargesIf there are more Revs and all use Sword 2 , than the resource can restore , they dont benefit from the bonus .Or the bonus map, can have 2 extra resources for each user , but when used they put the user in combat>>cannot benefit from out of combat speed for 3 min

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Is this no longer an MMO? If so, why do you keep removing amulets? What is even the point of an attribute system anymore?

And ironically enough the skill gap has never been smaller. It's just depressing.You cannot effectively punish bad plays from others since nothing does enough damage nowadays so you just run out of cooldowns (plus ini/energy on thieves, revs), sit there spamming autoattack and using skills on cooldown since they do not have as much of an impact anymore.

Individual skill has almost no impact now because the tools are just bad.

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@"otto.5684" said:I just saw this and thought it was extremely funny. It is admission of failure on every level. “We removed all damage options from the game and it is now too bunkerish to the extent that people are playing decap builds.” Solution? Let’s nerf support builds and remove amulets. How did that work out in the past?

Btw, have you ever played guardian in pve? I dunno how to tell you this, but condi DH is not remotely viable. The fact that it is the prominent guardian build is condi DH using a kitten troll rune, says it all in terms of how much kitten the values damage and sustain in spvp are. How is this not a clear trigger that something is so kitten wrong in the game’s balance system?!

I want to be constructive, but a year after you burned the old spvp system to the ground, you are telling me the new system is not working well, and resulted in a slow kitten bunkerish hell game play, which is exactly what veteran players told you will happen. And your solution is to do continue nerfing and removing things. Do you know the the definition of insanity?

Yep. And some of us knew it would come down to this over 2 years ago and that the problems will only get worse and worse to the point where the game will be stick wars 2. Their balance strategy has always been flawed, and almost nobody has the foresight to see that...

Some folks believe that this transfusion sigil rework, which is the smartest thing they will have done in the past 2 years, will give us hope...

Problem is...does anyone here truly believe that they will make transfusion good enough to actually do meaningful support?

I bet any money, that they will change it from 10% to 15% Outgoing Healing, and call it a day.

They need to STOP talking to the knuckleheads in discord, pull their eyes away from MAT's and they need to do some hardcore mathematical and scientific research on how to balance games...because this "nerf everything" business is not how to balance a game, and these kids CMC is talking to don't have a clue.

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This is painful to watch... I used to love this game, mostly for pvp and wvw, with the story chapters keeping me busy in between...

I don't even know what to say, but I figured if I didn't even voice my complaint on this thread, I'd feel like I didn't even try to save my old favorite mmo.

The pvp has gotten stale, wvw has gotten stale and the content releases have been awful... I'm sorry, I really liked a lot of the people working on this game, most of them are gone now anyway, but I still feel bad being so disappointed with a game I used to hail as the best.

Gonna just leave a video from back when pvp was good, maybe the current devs can use it for inspiration to remember what made the twitch based pvp in gw2 so good.

I wish I had some ideas how to get back there, but I don't know how to fix this anymore, it seems like the company has lost it's steam, but I do appreciate reaching out to the community like this. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother logging in to comment. I'd just be gone. Not coming back, but I hope things improve. If they can bring that intense feeling to pvp again, I'd come back at least for that. But there is no content I enjoy anymore in gw2 sadly.

Great day and thanks for reaching out for feedback. At least, you are doing some good work by communicating with your players.

Edit: I'm not saying season 2 was best at all, but I found this video and it reminded me of the old feeling I used to get in those intense twitch moments that turn games.

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@XxsdgxX.8109 said:Is this no longer an MMO? If so, why do you keep removing amulets? What is even the point of an attribute system anymore?

SPvP isn't an MMO. It's a conquest game mode that requires good balancing to make it fun.But currently it plays like a boring game of standing on node. No fast-paced rotations, no momentum plays, just try and bog down the game - that's the winning strategy. Mender's plays a big part in that. Straight up removing it is sensible if you offer new options to keep support builds viable.

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@"Loboling.5293" said:This is painful to watch... I used to love this game, mostly for pvp and wvw, with the story chapters keeping me busy in between...

I don't even know what to say, but I figured if I didn't even voice my complaint on this thread, I'd feel like I didn't even try to save my old favorite mmo.

The pvp has gotten stale, wvw has gotten stale and the content releases have been awful... I'm sorry, I really liked a lot of the people working on this game, most of them are gone now anyway, but I still feel bad being so disappointed with a game I used to hail as the best.

Gonna just leave a video from back when pvp was good, maybe the current devs can use it for inspiration to remember what made the twitch based pvp in gw2 so good.

I wish I had some ideas how to get back there, but I don't know how to fix this anymore, it seems like the company has lost it's steam, but I do appreciate reaching out to the community like this. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother logging in to comment. I'd just be gone. Not coming back, but I hope things improve. If they can bring that intense feeling to pvp again, I'd come back at least for that. But there is no content I enjoy anymore in gw2 sadly.

Great day and thanks for reaching out for feedback. At least, you are doing some good work by communicating with your players.

Edit: I'm not saying season 2 was best at all, but I found this video and it reminded me of the old feeling I used to get in those intense twitch moments that turn games.

In the beginning, Anet had two main experienced PvP devs : John Peter and Johnatan Sharp , both used feedback from official tournaments and streams with top players at the time....no amulet removals...no hammer nerfes...game was fun.

Then those two devs left and for a good time Anet didn't have a solid direction for PvP.......it was then than Anet made the grave mistake of considering forum feedback, that opened the flood gates for the whiners with removal and hard nerf requests.

GW2 had a decent PvP at the time because the devs then were not afraid to speak the truth: GIT GUD and L2P, once John Peter literally told some players to l2p on stream, that's the kind of devs you need for a healthy game balance, you don't and I repeat you do not balance the game around the low common denominator.

Every major patch since that time is a consequence of the previous balance shift

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Loboling.5293" said:This is painful to watch... I used to love this game, mostly for pvp and wvw, with the story chapters keeping me busy in between...

I don't even know what to say, but I figured if I didn't even voice my complaint on this thread, I'd feel like I didn't even try to save my old favorite mmo.

The pvp has gotten stale, wvw has gotten stale and the content releases have been awful... I'm sorry, I really liked a lot of the people working on this game, most of them are gone now anyway, but I still feel bad being so disappointed with a game I used to hail as the best.

Gonna just leave a video from back when pvp was good, maybe the current devs can use it for inspiration to remember what made the twitch based pvp in gw2 so good.
I wish I had some ideas how to get back there, but I don't know how to fix this anymore, it seems like the company has lost it's steam, but I do appreciate reaching out to the community like this. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother logging in to comment. I'd just be gone. Not coming back, but I hope things improve. If they can bring that intense feeling to pvp again, I'd come back at least for that. But there is no content I enjoy anymore in gw2 sadly.

Great day and thanks for reaching out for feedback. At least, you are doing some good work by communicating with your players.

Edit: I'm not saying season 2 was best at all, but I found this video and it reminded me of the old feeling I used to get in those intense twitch moments that turn games.

In the beginning, Anet had two main experienced PvP devs : John Peter and Johnatan Sharp , both used feedback from official tournaments and streams with top players at the time....no amulet removals...no hammer nerfes...game was fun.

Then those two devs left and for a good time Anet didn't have a solid direction for PvP.......it was then than Anet made the grave mistake of
considering forum feedback
, that opened the flood gates for the whiners with removal and hard nerf requests.

GW2 had a decent PvP at the time because the devs then
were not afraid to speak the truth: GIT GUD and L2P
, once John Peter literally told some players to l2p on stream, that's the kind of devs you need for a healthy game balance, you don't and I repeat you do not balance the game around the low common denominator.

Every major patch since that time is a consequence of the previous balance shift

I miss Johnathan Sharp , and Josh Peters. :anguished: Also how can you forget Josh Davis aka Grouch, he was sort of a pillar to the Spvp community back then too. A moment of silence for remembrance of the Devs that left the game. :sadpepe:

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@otto.5684 said:

@"Cal Cohen.2358" said:Hi everyone,

Today’s update included a handful of PvP balance changes and we wanted to share some context behind the decisions we’ve made to the Guardian, Necromancer, and Revenant professions. At the very end of this post, we’ll also talk about areas we’re investigating for future updates.

Condition Guardian Variants
  • Permeating Wrath: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
  • Eternal Armory: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
  • Sword of Justice: Reduced ammunition count from 3 to 2 in PvP only. Increased cooldown between skill uses from 1 second to 5 seconds in PvP only.

Dragonhunter is the most prevalent version of condition Guardian, but Core also sees a fair amount of play with similar levels of success in the ranked environment. We’re starting with some adjustments to Permeating Wrath, Eternal Armory, and Sword of Justice to tone down the AoE burning pressure that both of these builds bring. Eternal Armory in particular is a trait that we’re evaluating for a game-wide functional change to better normalize the burning potential of all spirit weapons, but until then we’re reducing the duration to help mitigate the overperforming case with sword.

Rune of the Trapper is notably unscathed, but it’s high on our watchlist and depending on the impact of today’s changes it may see some adjustment in the future.

Minion Necromancer
  • Flesh of the Master: Reduced minion health bonus from 50% to 25% in PvP only.
  • Death Nova: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.45 in PvP only.

We made some small adjustments to minion builds last month, and we’re making a couple more today to bring it more inline. While it’s somewhat interesting how minionmancer matches up against some of the meta side-noders in higher tier play, from a balance philosophy point of view we don’t want AI-heavy builds to be a pillar of the PvP meta. Minionmancer has also been overperforming in ranked for quite a while, and as condition Guardians get brought down in power level we want to make sure that players can keep enemy minions in check - so we’re shaving down their overall health and slightly reducing the punishment of killing them in melee range.

Support Core Guardian
  • "Stand Your Ground!": Increased cooldown from 45 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only.
  • Pure of Heart: Reduced heal scaling from 0.3 to 0.15 in PvP only.
  • Virtue of Resolve: Reduced heal scaling from 1.4 to 1.0 in PvP only.
  • Shield of Judgment: Reduced protection duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.

Last month we shaved down support Spellbreaker a bit more, which left Core Guardian as the premier support build in the meta. We consider the current state of Core Guardian overtuned relative to where we want support builds to be, and so we’re shaving a few pieces before looking at potential buffs to Tempest and Spellbreaker supports. Part of this decision is due to the general slowness of the meta right now, and as that shifts over time we’ll continue to evaluate the sweet spot for support builds.

Ventari Revenant
  • Energy Expulsion: Reduced knockback distance from 450 to 100 in PvP only.
  • Blinding Truths: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds in PvP only.
  • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

Ventari Revenant is getting a similar adjustment to its knockback that we made to ranger greatsword - maintaining its crowd control while reducing the decap threat. We’re also taking this opportunity to clean up a troublesome interaction between the low cooldown Ventari heal and Blinding Truths by adding an internal cooldown. Lastly, Surge of the Mists is getting a slight cooldown increase as a general defensive shave across all revenant builds. There are some additional concerns about the overall bulk and sustain of the build even outside of its decap potential - we’ll touch a little more on our plans there near the end of the post.

Shiro Renegade
  • Charged Mists: Reduced energy gain from 25 to 10 in PvP only.
  • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
  • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

Renegade has continued to perform well after the changes to its might generation, and we’re making a few follow-up adjustments. Charged Mists stands out as the trait that enables a lot of Renegade’s most powerful sequences while generally breaking the expectations of Revenant energy costs, and we want to bring it down a bit before further evaluating other key pieces of the build. We were considering whether 10 or 15 energy was the right number (or even some unusual numbers in the middle like 12), but we leaned a bit on the heavier side here while not touching too much else. It’s a number that can come back up a little as we evaluate the impact and look at other potential changes. Phase Traversal is getting a slight cooldown increase to reduce both the chase potential and overall map mobility of both Renegade and Herald.

Power Herald
  • Infuse Light: Reduced duration of damage inversion effect from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
  • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
  • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

In addition to the other general Revenant changes, Herald is also getting a minor adjustment to Infuse Light. Infuse Light is another case that we’re evaluating for a functional change, but in the meantime, we’re taking the opportunity to slightly reduce the duration as another shave to their defensive capabilities.We’re being a bit cautious with directly reducing Revenant damage (both here and with Renegade) while looking at speeding up the general pace of the meta.

Looking Ahead
The thing most notably missing from today’s update is Scourge. When today’s changes were being finalized internally, Mender Scourge was starting to show some strong results in automated tournaments, but it wasn’t too widely played yet. There was some consideration to whether it warranted early adjustments, but we usually like to gather more data (including reviewing future win rate statistics and observing gameplay) before acting. Ultimately, we decided against rushing anything in for today. Given what we’ve seen since then, it’s something that we want to address sooner rather than later and we’re currently looking into some adjustments for the next release.

Something else that we’ve been evaluating is the state of Mender Amulet. The general pace of the game right now is slower than we’d like to see. Mender plays a big part in this, both through the strength of the bulkier support builds that have been meta recently (both Spellbreaker and now Core Guardian, compared to previous metas with Tempest) as well as the more sustain-oriented side node builds that tend to stalemate fights. The other main component of combat pacing is the amount of damage available. Looking back at something like pre-nerf grenade Holosmith, for all of the problems it had, it was very good at pushing damage and combating bunker play. We’re wary of bringing damage back up to that level and want to start with some adjustments to sustain before re-evaluating damage.

To that end, we’re looking at removing Mender and Marshal amulets and adding an improved version of Sigil of Transference (increased outgoing healing) to make up some of the healing loss for support builds. This would also include a few adjustments for healing sources that are most heavily impacted by this shift (notable among those are Selfless Daring and Elemental Bastion, as well as Call of Valor which does not benefit from transference). Overall, some sources would heal allies for a bit more and some would heal for a bit less than they do with Mender, but the self-healing of support builds would be lower. Side node builds that currently play Mender would also be pushed into Avatar amulet, hopefully resulting in fewer stalemates and increased kill potential. We still want dedicated support builds to be a viable choice, and we’d be keeping a close eye on the impact of these changes going forward, but we think that given the current state of the game Mender creates more problems than it solves and it's worth looking at.

That’s all for today. Thanks for reading, and we’ll see you in-game!

-The Systems Team

I just saw this and thought it was extremely funny. It is admission of failure on every level. “We removed all damage options from the game and it is now too bunkerish to the extent that people are playing decap builds.” Solution? Let’s nerf support builds and remove amulets. How did that work out in the past?

Trying to prove what here exactly? You had quite the expectation to imagine the game would be super a-okay from the start of this balance. Let's completely ignore that nothing outside cooldowns were done to healing/sustain skills and that base health pools haven't changed (That's actually what goes above most people head.).

You're overly confident into claiming like many that everything is wrong and nothing ever worked when we're not even at the final stage. As if you or anyone would know how the game should exactly be. (Certainly not like it used to be.)

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Having Health Pools to be identical as before keeps a consistent foundation within the game, it's not hard to figure out.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Loboling.5293" said:This is painful to watch... I used to love this game, mostly for pvp and wvw, with the story chapters keeping me busy in between...

I don't even know what to say, but I figured if I didn't even voice my complaint on this thread, I'd feel like I didn't even try to save my old favorite mmo.

The pvp has gotten stale, wvw has gotten stale and the content releases have been awful... I'm sorry, I really liked a lot of the people working on this game, most of them are gone now anyway, but I still feel bad being so disappointed with a game I used to hail as the best.

Gonna just leave a video from back when pvp was good, maybe the current devs can use it for inspiration to remember what made the twitch based pvp in gw2 so good.
I wish I had some ideas how to get back there, but I don't know how to fix this anymore, it seems like the company has lost it's steam, but I do appreciate reaching out to the community like this. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother logging in to comment. I'd just be gone. Not coming back, but I hope things improve. If they can bring that intense feeling to pvp again, I'd come back at least for that. But there is no content I enjoy anymore in gw2 sadly.

Great day and thanks for reaching out for feedback. At least, you are doing some good work by communicating with your players.

Edit: I'm not saying season 2 was best at all, but I found this video and it reminded me of the old feeling I used to get in those intense twitch moments that turn games.

In the beginning, Anet had two main experienced PvP devs : John Peter and Johnatan Sharp , both used feedback from official tournaments and streams with top players at the time....no amulet removals...no hammer nerfes...game was fun.

Then those two devs left and for a good time Anet didn't have a solid direction for PvP.......it was then than Anet made the grave mistake of
considering forum feedback
, that opened the flood gates for the whiners with removal and hard nerf requests.

GW2 had a decent PvP at the time because the devs then
were not afraid to speak the truth: GIT GUD and L2P
, once John Peter literally told some players to l2p on stream, that's the kind of devs you need for a healthy game balance, you don't and I repeat you do not balance the game around the low common denominator.

Every major patch since that time is a consequence of the previous balance shift

As if people didn't just play whatever the meta gave them. It's possible to play w/e you wish now, not something we could before. We didn't have meaningful skill splits nor was there any reason to keep stats combo's that would create more problems, you can easily tell from WvW how toxic and overly used some stats are, grateful they don't exist or were removed from PvP so we can actually have fun.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@"Cal Cohen.2358" said:Hi everyone,

Today’s update included a handful of PvP balance changes and we wanted to share some context behind the decisions we’ve made to the Guardian, Necromancer, and Revenant professions. At the very end of this post, we’ll also talk about areas we’re investigating for future updates.

Condition Guardian Variants
  • Permeating Wrath: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
  • Eternal Armory: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
  • Sword of Justice: Reduced ammunition count from 3 to 2 in PvP only. Increased cooldown between skill uses from 1 second to 5 seconds in PvP only.

Dragonhunter is the most prevalent version of condition Guardian, but Core also sees a fair amount of play with similar levels of success in the ranked environment. We’re starting with some adjustments to Permeating Wrath, Eternal Armory, and Sword of Justice to tone down the AoE burning pressure that both of these builds bring. Eternal Armory in particular is a trait that we’re evaluating for a game-wide functional change to better normalize the burning potential of all spirit weapons, but until then we’re reducing the duration to help mitigate the overperforming case with sword.

Rune of the Trapper is notably unscathed, but it’s high on our watchlist and depending on the impact of today’s changes it may see some adjustment in the future.

Minion Necromancer
  • Flesh of the Master: Reduced minion health bonus from 50% to 25% in PvP only.
  • Death Nova: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.45 in PvP only.

We made some small adjustments to minion builds last month, and we’re making a couple more today to bring it more inline. While it’s somewhat interesting how minionmancer matches up against some of the meta side-noders in higher tier play, from a balance philosophy point of view we don’t want AI-heavy builds to be a pillar of the PvP meta. Minionmancer has also been overperforming in ranked for quite a while, and as condition Guardians get brought down in power level we want to make sure that players can keep enemy minions in check - so we’re shaving down their overall health and slightly reducing the punishment of killing them in melee range.

Support Core Guardian
  • "Stand Your Ground!": Increased cooldown from 45 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only.
  • Pure of Heart: Reduced heal scaling from 0.3 to 0.15 in PvP only.
  • Virtue of Resolve: Reduced heal scaling from 1.4 to 1.0 in PvP only.
  • Shield of Judgment: Reduced protection duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.

Last month we shaved down support Spellbreaker a bit more, which left Core Guardian as the premier support build in the meta. We consider the current state of Core Guardian overtuned relative to where we want support builds to be, and so we’re shaving a few pieces before looking at potential buffs to Tempest and Spellbreaker supports. Part of this decision is due to the general slowness of the meta right now, and as that shifts over time we’ll continue to evaluate the sweet spot for support builds.

Ventari Revenant
  • Energy Expulsion: Reduced knockback distance from 450 to 100 in PvP only.
  • Blinding Truths: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds in PvP only.
  • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

Ventari Revenant is getting a similar adjustment to its knockback that we made to ranger greatsword - maintaining its crowd control while reducing the decap threat. We’re also taking this opportunity to clean up a troublesome interaction between the low cooldown Ventari heal and Blinding Truths by adding an internal cooldown. Lastly, Surge of the Mists is getting a slight cooldown increase as a general defensive shave across all revenant builds. There are some additional concerns about the overall bulk and sustain of the build even outside of its decap potential - we’ll touch a little more on our plans there near the end of the post.

Shiro Renegade
  • Charged Mists: Reduced energy gain from 25 to 10 in PvP only.
  • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
  • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

Renegade has continued to perform well after the changes to its might generation, and we’re making a few follow-up adjustments. Charged Mists stands out as the trait that enables a lot of Renegade’s most powerful sequences while generally breaking the expectations of Revenant energy costs, and we want to bring it down a bit before further evaluating other key pieces of the build. We were considering whether 10 or 15 energy was the right number (or even some unusual numbers in the middle like 12), but we leaned a bit on the heavier side here while not touching too much else. It’s a number that can come back up a little as we evaluate the impact and look at other potential changes. Phase Traversal is getting a slight cooldown increase to reduce both the chase potential and overall map mobility of both Renegade and Herald.

Power Herald
  • Infuse Light: Reduced duration of damage inversion effect from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
  • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
  • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

In addition to the other general Revenant changes, Herald is also getting a minor adjustment to Infuse Light. Infuse Light is another case that we’re evaluating for a functional change, but in the meantime, we’re taking the opportunity to slightly reduce the duration as another shave to their defensive capabilities.We’re being a bit cautious with directly reducing Revenant damage (both here and with Renegade) while looking at speeding up the general pace of the meta.

Looking Ahead
The thing most notably missing from today’s update is Scourge. When today’s changes were being finalized internally, Mender Scourge was starting to show some strong results in automated tournaments, but it wasn’t too widely played yet. There was some consideration to whether it warranted early adjustments, but we usually like to gather more data (including reviewing future win rate statistics and observing gameplay) before acting. Ultimately, we decided against rushing anything in for today. Given what we’ve seen since then, it’s something that we want to address sooner rather than later and we’re currently looking into some adjustments for the next release.

Something else that we’ve been evaluating is the state of Mender Amulet. The general pace of the game right now is slower than we’d like to see. Mender plays a big part in this, both through the strength of the bulkier support builds that have been meta recently (both Spellbreaker and now Core Guardian, compared to previous metas with Tempest) as well as the more sustain-oriented side node builds that tend to stalemate fights. The other main component of combat pacing is the amount of damage available. Looking back at something like pre-nerf grenade Holosmith, for all of the problems it had, it was very good at pushing damage and combating bunker play. We’re wary of bringing damage back up to that level and want to start with some adjustments to sustain before re-evaluating damage.

To that end, we’re looking at removing Mender and Marshal amulets and adding an improved version of Sigil of Transference (increased outgoing healing) to make up some of the healing loss for support builds. This would also include a few adjustments for healing sources that are most heavily impacted by this shift (notable among those are Selfless Daring and Elemental Bastion, as well as Call of Valor which does not benefit from transference). Overall, some sources would heal allies for a bit more and some would heal for a bit less than they do with Mender, but the self-healing of support builds would be lower. Side node builds that currently play Mender would also be pushed into Avatar amulet, hopefully resulting in fewer stalemates and increased kill potential. We still want dedicated support builds to be a viable choice, and we’d be keeping a close eye on the impact of these changes going forward, but we think that given the current state of the game Mender creates more problems than it solves and it's worth looking at.

That’s all for today. Thanks for reading, and we’ll see you in-game!

-The Systems Team

I just saw this and thought it was extremely funny. It is admission of failure on every level. “We removed all damage options from the game and it is now too bunkerish to the extent that people are playing decap builds.” Solution? Let’s nerf support builds and remove amulets. How did that work out in the past?

Trying to prove what here exactly? You had quite the expectation to imagine the game would be super a-okay from the start of this balance. Let's completely ignore that nothing outside cooldowns were done to healing/sustain skills and that base health pools haven't changed (That's actually what goes above most people head.).

You're overly confident into claiming like many that everything is wrong and nothing ever worked when we're not even at the final stage. As if you or anyone would know how the game should exactly be. (Certainly not like it used to be.)

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Having Health Pools to be identical as before keeps a consistent foundation within the game, it's not hard to figure out.

@"Loboling.5293" said:This is painful to watch... I used to love this game, mostly for pvp and wvw, with the story chapters keeping me busy in between...

I don't even know what to say, but I figured if I didn't even voice my complaint on this thread, I'd feel like I didn't even try to save my old favorite mmo.

The pvp has gotten stale, wvw has gotten stale and the content releases have been awful... I'm sorry, I really liked a lot of the people working on this game, most of them are gone now anyway, but I still feel bad being so disappointed with a game I used to hail as the best.

Gonna just leave a video from back when pvp was good, maybe the current devs can use it for inspiration to remember what made the twitch based pvp in gw2 so good.
I wish I had some ideas how to get back there, but I don't know how to fix this anymore, it seems like the company has lost it's steam, but I do appreciate reaching out to the community like this. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother logging in to comment. I'd just be gone. Not coming back, but I hope things improve. If they can bring that intense feeling to pvp again, I'd come back at least for that. But there is no content I enjoy anymore in gw2 sadly.

Great day and thanks for reaching out for feedback. At least, you are doing some good work by communicating with your players.

Edit: I'm not saying season 2 was best at all, but I found this video and it reminded me of the old feeling I used to get in those intense twitch moments that turn games.

In the beginning, Anet had two main experienced PvP devs : John Peter and Johnatan Sharp , both used feedback from official tournaments and streams with top players at the time....no amulet removals...no hammer nerfes...game was fun.

Then those two devs left and for a good time Anet didn't have a solid direction for PvP.......it was then than Anet made the grave mistake of
considering forum feedback
, that opened the flood gates for the whiners with removal and hard nerf requests.

GW2 had a decent PvP at the time because the devs then
were not afraid to speak the truth: GIT GUD and L2P
, once John Peter literally told some players to l2p on stream, that's the kind of devs you need for a healthy game balance, you don't and I repeat you do not balance the game around the low common denominator.

Every major patch since that time is a consequence of the previous balance shift

As if people didn't just play whatever the meta gave them. It's possible to play w/e you wish now, not something we could before. We didn't have meaningful skill splits nor was there any reason to keep stats combo's that would create more problems, you can easily tell from WvW how toxic and overly used some stats are, grateful they don't exist or were removed from PvP so we can actually have fun.

Who is actually having fun?Certainly not those using low HP professions that need to juggle between dmg, HP and sustain. It easy to talk when the profession you love to play does not relies on stats to be competitive when you don't have access to stealth and fancy blocks, 1200 range teleport and ranged weapon swap. Yeah I can jump on ranger or necro and who gives a damn about stats, am I right?

They should have designed the game accordingly to their current balance ideology.

If you want curb to the ground anything healing power related...be my guest but then they MUST re-evaluate the elementalist as it was designed with such deficiencies as a result of the healing to allies ability and with that gone...there would be no justification for a lot of stuff...keep that in mind

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@Shao.7236 said:

@"Cal Cohen.2358" said:Hi everyone,

Today’s update included a handful of PvP balance changes and we wanted to share some context behind the decisions we’ve made to the Guardian, Necromancer, and Revenant professions. At the very end of this post, we’ll also talk about areas we’re investigating for future updates.

Condition Guardian Variants
  • Permeating Wrath: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
  • Eternal Armory: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
  • Sword of Justice: Reduced ammunition count from 3 to 2 in PvP only. Increased cooldown between skill uses from 1 second to 5 seconds in PvP only.

Dragonhunter is the most prevalent version of condition Guardian, but Core also sees a fair amount of play with similar levels of success in the ranked environment. We’re starting with some adjustments to Permeating Wrath, Eternal Armory, and Sword of Justice to tone down the AoE burning pressure that both of these builds bring. Eternal Armory in particular is a trait that we’re evaluating for a game-wide functional change to better normalize the burning potential of all spirit weapons, but until then we’re reducing the duration to help mitigate the overperforming case with sword.

Rune of the Trapper is notably unscathed, but it’s high on our watchlist and depending on the impact of today’s changes it may see some adjustment in the future.

Minion Necromancer
  • Flesh of the Master: Reduced minion health bonus from 50% to 25% in PvP only.
  • Death Nova: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.45 in PvP only.

We made some small adjustments to minion builds last month, and we’re making a couple more today to bring it more inline. While it’s somewhat interesting how minionmancer matches up against some of the meta side-noders in higher tier play, from a balance philosophy point of view we don’t want AI-heavy builds to be a pillar of the PvP meta. Minionmancer has also been overperforming in ranked for quite a while, and as condition Guardians get brought down in power level we want to make sure that players can keep enemy minions in check - so we’re shaving down their overall health and slightly reducing the punishment of killing them in melee range.

Support Core Guardian
  • "Stand Your Ground!": Increased cooldown from 45 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only.
  • Pure of Heart: Reduced heal scaling from 0.3 to 0.15 in PvP only.
  • Virtue of Resolve: Reduced heal scaling from 1.4 to 1.0 in PvP only.
  • Shield of Judgment: Reduced protection duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.

Last month we shaved down support Spellbreaker a bit more, which left Core Guardian as the premier support build in the meta. We consider the current state of Core Guardian overtuned relative to where we want support builds to be, and so we’re shaving a few pieces before looking at potential buffs to Tempest and Spellbreaker supports. Part of this decision is due to the general slowness of the meta right now, and as that shifts over time we’ll continue to evaluate the sweet spot for support builds.

Ventari Revenant
  • Energy Expulsion: Reduced knockback distance from 450 to 100 in PvP only.
  • Blinding Truths: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds in PvP only.
  • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

Ventari Revenant is getting a similar adjustment to its knockback that we made to ranger greatsword - maintaining its crowd control while reducing the decap threat. We’re also taking this opportunity to clean up a troublesome interaction between the low cooldown Ventari heal and Blinding Truths by adding an internal cooldown. Lastly, Surge of the Mists is getting a slight cooldown increase as a general defensive shave across all revenant builds. There are some additional concerns about the overall bulk and sustain of the build even outside of its decap potential - we’ll touch a little more on our plans there near the end of the post.

Shiro Renegade
  • Charged Mists: Reduced energy gain from 25 to 10 in PvP only.
  • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
  • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

Renegade has continued to perform well after the changes to its might generation, and we’re making a few follow-up adjustments. Charged Mists stands out as the trait that enables a lot of Renegade’s most powerful sequences while generally breaking the expectations of Revenant energy costs, and we want to bring it down a bit before further evaluating other key pieces of the build. We were considering whether 10 or 15 energy was the right number (or even some unusual numbers in the middle like 12), but we leaned a bit on the heavier side here while not touching too much else. It’s a number that can come back up a little as we evaluate the impact and look at other potential changes. Phase Traversal is getting a slight cooldown increase to reduce both the chase potential and overall map mobility of both Renegade and Herald.

Power Herald
  • Infuse Light: Reduced duration of damage inversion effect from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
  • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
  • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

In addition to the other general Revenant changes, Herald is also getting a minor adjustment to Infuse Light. Infuse Light is another case that we’re evaluating for a functional change, but in the meantime, we’re taking the opportunity to slightly reduce the duration as another shave to their defensive capabilities.We’re being a bit cautious with directly reducing Revenant damage (both here and with Renegade) while looking at speeding up the general pace of the meta.

Looking Ahead
The thing most notably missing from today’s update is Scourge. When today’s changes were being finalized internally, Mender Scourge was starting to show some strong results in automated tournaments, but it wasn’t too widely played yet. There was some consideration to whether it warranted early adjustments, but we usually like to gather more data (including reviewing future win rate statistics and observing gameplay) before acting. Ultimately, we decided against rushing anything in for today. Given what we’ve seen since then, it’s something that we want to address sooner rather than later and we’re currently looking into some adjustments for the next release.

Something else that we’ve been evaluating is the state of Mender Amulet. The general pace of the game right now is slower than we’d like to see. Mender plays a big part in this, both through the strength of the bulkier support builds that have been meta recently (both Spellbreaker and now Core Guardian, compared to previous metas with Tempest) as well as the more sustain-oriented side node builds that tend to stalemate fights. The other main component of combat pacing is the amount of damage available. Looking back at something like pre-nerf grenade Holosmith, for all of the problems it had, it was very good at pushing damage and combating bunker play. We’re wary of bringing damage back up to that level and want to start with some adjustments to sustain before re-evaluating damage.

To that end, we’re looking at removing Mender and Marshal amulets and adding an improved version of Sigil of Transference (increased outgoing healing) to make up some of the healing loss for support builds. This would also include a few adjustments for healing sources that are most heavily impacted by this shift (notable among those are Selfless Daring and Elemental Bastion, as well as Call of Valor which does not benefit from transference). Overall, some sources would heal allies for a bit more and some would heal for a bit less than they do with Mender, but the self-healing of support builds would be lower. Side node builds that currently play Mender would also be pushed into Avatar amulet, hopefully resulting in fewer stalemates and increased kill potential. We still want dedicated support builds to be a viable choice, and we’d be keeping a close eye on the impact of these changes going forward, but we think that given the current state of the game Mender creates more problems than it solves and it's worth looking at.

That’s all for today. Thanks for reading, and we’ll see you in-game!

-The Systems Team

I just saw this and thought it was extremely funny. It is admission of failure on every level. “We removed all damage options from the game and it is now too bunkerish to the extent that people are playing decap builds.” Solution? Let’s nerf support builds and remove amulets. How did that work out in the past?

Trying to prove what here exactly? You had quite the expectation to imagine the game would be super a-okay from the start of this balance. Let's completely ignore that nothing outside cooldowns were done to healing/sustain skills and that base health pools haven't changed (That's actually what goes above most people head.).

Uh, they did a few things to healing/sustain. It just wasnt enough because of powerdip.

You're overly confident into claiming like many that everything is wrong and nothing ever worked when we're not even at the final stage. As if you or anyone would know how the game should exactly be. (Certainly not like it used to be.)

Actually, how it used to be is better.

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

Having Health Pools to be identical as before keeps a consistent foundation within the game, it's not hard to figure out.

All it does is make powerdip as bad as it is. Which is to say, leading to a glacial pace in which no one ever dies without being outnumbered, and an utterly skillless gameplay loop.

@"Loboling.5293" said:This is painful to watch... I used to love this game, mostly for pvp and wvw, with the story chapters keeping me busy in between...

I don't even know what to say, but I figured if I didn't even voice my complaint on this thread, I'd feel like I didn't even try to save my old favorite mmo.

The pvp has gotten stale, wvw has gotten stale and the content releases have been awful... I'm sorry, I really liked a lot of the people working on this game, most of them are gone now anyway, but I still feel bad being so disappointed with a game I used to hail as the best.

Gonna just leave a video from back when pvp was good, maybe the current devs can use it for inspiration to remember what made the twitch based pvp in gw2 so good.
I wish I had some ideas how to get back there, but I don't know how to fix this anymore, it seems like the company has lost it's steam, but I do appreciate reaching out to the community like this. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother logging in to comment. I'd just be gone. Not coming back, but I hope things improve. If they can bring that intense feeling to pvp again, I'd come back at least for that. But there is no content I enjoy anymore in gw2 sadly.

Great day and thanks for reaching out for feedback. At least, you are doing some good work by communicating with your players.

Edit: I'm not saying season 2 was best at all, but I found this video and it reminded me of the old feeling I used to get in those intense twitch moments that turn games.

In the beginning, Anet had two main experienced PvP devs : John Peter and Johnatan Sharp , both used feedback from official tournaments and streams with top players at the time....no amulet removals...no hammer nerfes...game was fun.

Then those two devs left and for a good time Anet didn't have a solid direction for PvP.......it was then than Anet made the grave mistake of
considering forum feedback
, that opened the flood gates for the whiners with removal and hard nerf requests.

GW2 had a decent PvP at the time because the devs then
were not afraid to speak the truth: GIT GUD and L2P
, once John Peter literally told some players to l2p on stream, that's the kind of devs you need for a healthy game balance, you don't and I repeat you do not balance the game around the low common denominator.

Every major patch since that time is a consequence of the previous balance shift

As if people didn't just play whatever the meta gave them. It's possible to play w/e you wish now, not something we could before. We didn't have meaningful skill splits nor was there any reason to keep stats combo's that would create more problems, you can easily tell from WvW how toxic and overly used some stats are, grateful they don't exist or were removed from PvP so we can actually have fun.

Exactly incorrect. It used to be possible to play (almost) whatever you want before. Now its absolutely impossible. Build diversity went down across the board. Also its funny you talk shit about WvW when WvW is much more enjoyable than PvP, just for the simple reason that they only did one bad change to it with the february megapatch, rather than constantly doubling down on the powerdip. At this point I just hope they never do a single balance change to WvW until they finally acknowledge that the february patch was a mistake.

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@"UNOwen.7132" said:

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

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@razaelll.8324 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

I’d overwhelmingly would agree, personally, that the ‘feb’ patch was the worst ever. Making stuff useless has not made anything more fun yet and that’s what the patch did in addition to a power dip.

I also noticed that a lot of people came back to the game for this patch and every single one said it was the worst patch ever and all the experienced players generally agree it was terrible.Note: that just what I noticed among people I know and see which would be basically all high level competitive players on Na and whomever I know from Eu on discord.

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@razaelll.8324 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

We had a few polls, from around the time, and a fair bit later. At the time it was something like 55-45 in favour of pre-patch meta, a few months later it was 66-33 in favour of pre-patch meta. I'll see if I can track them down. But no, its actually a silent majority thats against it, and a vocal minority in favour of it.

Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

Again, because of the polls we had. And the pace right now is glacial, if you don't get a +1, neither dies, thats boring as hell.

Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

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@razaelll.8324 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107420/do-you-find-the-game-more-fun-to-play-now-or-before-revamp/p158% in favour of pre-patch.

And one from November: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118841/how-about-we-get-the-pre-february-meta-back-and-call-it-a-day

63% in favour ofpre-patch.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June:
58% in favour of pre-patch.

And one from November:

63% in favour ofpre-patch.

Thank you for the links and the info

It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

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@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

I’d overwhelmingly would agree, personally, that the ‘feb’ patch was the worst ever. Making stuff useless has not made anything more fun yet and that’s what the patch did in addition to a power dip.

I also noticed that a lot of people came back to the game for this patch and every single one said it was the worst patch ever and all the experienced players generally agree it was terrible.Note: that just what I noticed among people I know and see which would be basically all high level competitive players on Na and whomever I know from Eu on discord.

Thanks for the info!

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:It's time for people to realize that the more you nerf your counter...the more nerfs you will receive after^This.

There will always be a new meta. Always! What history has taught us so far is that once something becomes dominant it gets "tuned down". I am in favor of adjusting under used skills / builds so that they become competitive not vice versa. How balancing in this game works is horrible in my opinion. I think when people look at the patch notes they should be thinking "hey this update I'm going to try this, this, and this because this update made it interesting" not "oh look they nerfed the class / build I like to play" updates should not make people want to leave.

It takes time to learn any class and to get your own style of play. So when things tend to go away so do the players playing them in most cases. So why is the player being punished? Was it the players fault that the build they were running was meta? Not really, sure they probably knew it was good but it was not their fault it was. Right now play is boring because its predictable. Its predictable because there is not a variety of builds that work in pvp. So instead of reducing the options they need to focus on making so many builds viable that it is hard to chose between them.

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@razaelll.8324 said:

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June:
58% in favour of pre-patch.

And one from November:

63% in favour ofpre-patch.

Thank you for the links and the info

It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

The forums always will be a small portion. But, well, if you want to see what the people not on the forum thought, well, just consider most of them left. The february patch caused the largest drop in players in a while.

To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

You're welcome.

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@razaelll.8324 said:

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June:
58% in favour of pre-patch.

And one from November:

63% in favour ofpre-patch.

Thank you for the links and the info

It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

They should nerf stealth across across all classes in WvWvW . Every few months , it attracts numerous amount of conversations and Views (more than the entire pvp population , lol)

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June:
58% in favour of pre-patch.

And one from November:

63% in favour ofpre-patch.

Thank you for the links and the info

It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

They should nerf stealth across across all classes in WvWvW . Every few months , it attracts numerous amount of conversations and Views (more than the entire pvp population , lol)

Which has turned out to be the vocal minority. Stealth already isnt particularly good, nowadays you barely see thieves, its all holos and all kinds of necros and rangers.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June:
58% in favour of pre-patch.

And one from November:

63% in favour ofpre-patch.

Thank you for the links and the info

It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

They should nerf stealth across across all classes in WvWvW . Every few months , it attracts numerous amount of conversations and Views (more than the entire pvp population , lol)

Which has turned out to be the vocal minority. Stealth already isnt particularly good, nowadays you barely see thieves, its all holos and all kinds of necros and rangers.

As you already said :The forums always will be a small portion. But, well, if you want to see what the people not on the forum thought, well, just consider most of them leftThe existance of such mechanics caused the largest drop in WvWvW players in a while.

If 63% wants the Pre-Feb patch and 700 people wants the Stealth to behave as other games , then by nerfing the stealth in WvW and increase the damage in PvP , it will lead in a Win-Win situation for the game

Whatever the forums chooses , so the company should follow , right ? :)

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June:
58% in favour of pre-patch.

And one from November:

63% in favour ofpre-patch.

Thank you for the links and the info

It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

They should nerf stealth across across all classes in WvWvW . Every few months , it attracts numerous amount of conversations and Views (more than the entire pvp population , lol)

Which has turned out to be the vocal minority. Stealth already isnt particularly good, nowadays you barely see thieves, its all holos and all kinds of necros and rangers.

As you already said :
The forums always will be a small portion. But, well, if you want to see what the people not on the forum thought, well, just consider most of them left
The existance of such mechanics caused the largest drop in WvWvW players in a while.

If 63% wants the Pre-Feb patch and 700 people wants the Stealth to behave as other games , then by nerfing the stealth in WvW and increase the damage in PvP , it will lead in a Win-Win situation for the game

Where are you getting 700 people from? Besides, they dont. Ask them closer, and you realise their idea of stealth is self-contradictory.

Whatever the forums chooses , so the company should follow , right ? :)

They should choose what the players want. And the players clearly didnt want the february megapatch.

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