mrauls.6519 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Barrier as a mechanic has never made sense to me. Some classes need more healing than others, that's fine. That healing should be integrated into healing skills, regen, etc. I think removing menders amulet would be a good first step, but it doesn't make sense to me how certain barrier savvy classes can "over-heal" themselves by so much. I believe barrier should not be shareable. It should only affect the caster. If barrier was supposed to be scourges form of shroud, then make it only effect them... and tone down how much is appliedEdit: Why is Blood Bank a real trait??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymerdown.4103 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Totally agree that the biggest issue in the current meta isn't AOE prot, which is fairly vital given the low toughness on today's support amulets. Its the high AOE healing + barrier possible in teamfights slowing the game to a crawl. Reeling in some AOE healing and barrier should bring teamfight length down but be careful not to overnerf solo survivability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrauls.6519 Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 Im going to lose my mind if I keep seeing tanky scourges + supports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 @mes.4607 said:Im going to lose my mind if I keep seeing tanky scourges + supportsI can suggest preemptive theraphy then... because you'll see that a lot. A LOT. Barrierspam will be the next FOTM support build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Barrier is fine.It's Blood Bank + Sanctuary Rune that is making it look broken and OP on Scourge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallic.2397 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Barrier is fine.It's Blood Bank + Sanctuary Rune that is making it look broken and OP on Scourge.This makes sense. Can we focus on certain skills rather than barrier as a whole.I think the mechanic in general is needed, especially for low health classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buran.3796 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Just buff damage across all classes. Makes no sense that long casting easy to tell skills do 0 damage because they have some cc attached. Makes me cry every time I land Backbreaker or Drop the Hammer on a foe to get 10 damage... So much useless weapons and skills due they do 0 damage while blocks, evades, blinds and so on remain the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Barrier is fine.It's Blood Bank + Sanctuary Rune that is making it look broken and OP on Scourge.Remember how the entire necromancer community was complaining that blood bank is useless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 @Kodama.6453 said:@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Barrier is fine.It's Blood Bank + Sanctuary Rune that is making it look broken and OP on Scourge.Remember how the entire necromancer community was complaining that blood bank is useless?Not entire. There were many who disagreed and just got told by the masses/ very vocal individuals that they were wrong...IIRC, one of the quotes that got me I believe was something along the lines of "if you ever want to use a healing skill outside of healing then the skill is poorly designed"Edit: Thread for those who are interested.. Didn't realise there were so many suggestions to turn it to an objectively far more powerful, and oppressive, trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Salazar.5430 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Yeh, look more on skills and rolesgood egzemple is scrapper that have self barrier, but in same time he got -vitality from trait so his hp is around low hp classes, nerfing his barrier wuld make him not inaf good to be front linder bruiser as he will die while try iniciate fight with enemy for your team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelisk.5148 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Barrier is fine.It's Blood Bank + Sanctuary Rune that is making it look broken and OP on Scourge.HahahahahahahahahahaYESAt long last I found the secret build!Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Barrier is fine.It's Blood Bank + Sanctuary Rune that is making it look broken and OP on Scourge.HahahahahahahahahahaYESAt long last I found the secret build!Thank you!lol yeah. I figured it out yesterday after seeking out to discover what was going on with these Scourge builds myself.For some reason Blood Bank + Sanctuary = some seriously broken amplification of barrier.Example:Blood Scourge with Mender and no Blood Bank or Sanctuary uses Dagger 2 = about a 300 barrierBlood Scourge with Mender who is using Blood Bank and Sanctuary uses Dagger 2 = almost a 6000 barrierGo in game, try it yourself, the math is doing something wonky hereI'm not too sure exactly what's going on there, how it's calculating itself, but boy is it busted. I first noticed it a couple days ago when I was in a mixed AT team of p2 and p1+ players and our team comp was like: Soulbeast, DH, Mirage, Holo, Spellbreaker, Weaver, and we had to fight a team of G3ish or lower players who came @ us with: 2x Support Mender Scourges 1x Support Mender Core Guard as a team fight core. We were like Rick Rolling this team all over the place in terms out of skilling them at combat mechanics, but we quickly noticed we simply could not deal damage to them lol. We ended up losing this game because their support core was neigh invulnerable and now after Arenanet has nerfed all the knockback, you can't even knock these guys off a node for decaps. But oh boy can they decap you with fear and bubble spam.Ask @Shao.7236 about it, he was there. He was in the team with us.Along with the cat getting out of the bag on how to break barrier on Scourge, we have another case where some things being nerfed has equated to indirect buffs to other things. The problem with these Scourge comps is a new tier of imbalance we've never seen before. Let me sum this up here:Stack Scourges who are exploiting broken Blood Bank/Sanctuary barriers.Slap a Core Guard Support in the middle of it. His job is to lay down the large big heals to keep Scourge actual life at maximum, so Blood Bank works.Now you have neigh invulnerable team fight.Arenanet removes knockback decap power from everything except Necro fears.Now you have neigh invulnerable team fight that also cannot be decapped, who can decap anything with fear/bubble spam.Now you have team that doesn't need to kill or even deal damage, that can win matches by surviving and decapping only.There are many other broken things about Support Scourge/Core Guard Support comps right now, but the above ^ is the main crux of the problem.But yeah this is really dumb this time. Right now Scourge is transcendent of every other class:Scourge is S+ tier supportScourge is S+ tier side node bunkerScourge is S+ tier decap in a world of B+ decapsScourge wears mender and is comparable team fight damage output to team fight builds wearing full damage like serk or carrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemghool.7613 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 No one ever asked for Blood Bank. Remove it and it removes the problem that who ever created it left behind.ffs just give us back the wells trait that you so foolishly removed and admit it was wrong.Blood Bank is either worthless or broken. nice design Anet. ps: dont delete, kill and slaughter the class while you're at it. this is your own fault compounded by noodle damage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Barrier is fine.It's Blood Bank + Sanctuary Rune that is making it look broken and OP on Scourge.Preemptive healing really isn't fine for anyone except maybe necro. Other classes should preemptive damage negate/reduction. Necro is more of an absorb class with life force/death shroud and of course barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuriGashi.5617 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Barrier will become even more broken once Menders is gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrauls.6519 Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 Remove "Blood Bank" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogen.5071 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 barrier pisses me so much at the moment, great for pve but why the hell should players be rewarded with so much overheal, honestly the rotation you have to do in most games to get barrier is rather long or drains all your mana, i get we dont have mana but why the F is their so much freaking barrier just give them passive heals atleast then poison and stuff can nullify it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 To be fair, if you have an issue with blood bank, you'll probably have the same issue without since the barrier come from the incoming healing. Without BB the heal just need to be timed right, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamble.4580 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Just buff zerker tree for dps vs bar then adding a reason to war.Remember adding counters is better than nurfing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobber.6348 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 What we need is more Barrier pierce or Barrier breaking traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 @Yasai.3549 said:What we need is more Barrier pierce or Barrier breaking traits.And didn't they nerf warrior's trait for that almost as soon as they released it? Shame, would be helpful now wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Yasai.3549 said:What we need is more Barrier pierce or Barrier breaking traits.And didn't they nerf warrior's trait for that almost as soon as they released it? Shame, would be helpful now wouldn't it?If they want to hand out barrier-busting traits I request they rework minor traits which apply barrier passively. It's really not fair, for instance, to have glass weavers taking massively increased damage from warriors just because every dual attack applies a small amount of barrier. That sort of trait is meant to punish builds that invest heavily into barrier with trait selections and utility, but as usual we'll cause the problem for other builds instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 @AliamRationem.5172 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Yasai.3549 said:What we need is more Barrier pierce or Barrier breaking traits.And didn't they nerf warrior's trait for that almost as soon as they released it? Shame, would be helpful now wouldn't it?If they want to hand out barrier-busting traits I request they rework minor traits which apply barrier passively. It's really not fair, for instance, to have glass weavers taking massively increased damage from warriors just because every dual attack applies a small amount of barrier. That sort of trait is meant to punish builds that invest heavily into barrier with trait selections and utility, but as usual we'll cause the problem for other builds instead!Oh I don't disagree. Those traits probably should grant large barrier amounts, but on 10-15s CDs. Then you could have things like unnerfed Warrior's Cunning as a hard counter and be fair.Edit: if they did that, then impact savant should have the vitality penalty removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emberheart.8426 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@AliamRationem.5172 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Yasai.3549 said:What we need is more Barrier pierce or Barrier breaking traits.And didn't they nerf warrior's trait for that almost as soon as they released it? Shame, would be helpful now wouldn't it?If they want to hand out barrier-busting traits I request they rework minor traits which apply barrier passively. It's really not fair, for instance, to have glass weavers taking massively increased damage from warriors just because every dual attack applies a small amount of barrier. That sort of trait is meant to punish builds that invest heavily into barrier with trait selections and utility, but as usual we'll cause the problem for other builds instead!Oh I don't disagree. Those traits probably should grant large barrier amounts, but on 10-15s CDs. Then you could have things like unnerfed Warrior's Cunning as a hard counter and be fair.Edit: if they did that, then impact savant should have the vitality penalty removed.Or they could make the +50% damage only affect the barrier itself, or thry could make it pierce through barrier like unblockable does to blocks. It's really easy, and I don't understand how they botched the design so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 @Ganathar.4956 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@AliamRationem.5172 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Yasai.3549 said:What we need is more Barrier pierce or Barrier breaking traits.And didn't they nerf warrior's trait for that almost as soon as they released it? Shame, would be helpful now wouldn't it?If they want to hand out barrier-busting traits I request they rework minor traits which apply barrier passively. It's really not fair, for instance, to have glass weavers taking massively increased damage from warriors just because every dual attack applies a small amount of barrier. That sort of trait is meant to punish builds that invest heavily into barrier with trait selections and utility, but as usual we'll cause the problem for other builds instead!Oh I don't disagree. Those traits probably should grant large barrier amounts, but on 10-15s CDs. Then you could have things like unnerfed Warrior's Cunning as a hard counter and be fair.Edit: if they did that, then impact savant should have the vitality penalty removed.Or they could make the +50% damage only affect the barrier itself, or thry could make it pierce through barrier like unblockable does to blocks. It's really easy, and I don't understand how they botched the design so much.Because its probably not as easy as you're making out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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