Why dose anet hate the ele class? (Wvw chat)

[Jski.6180]

@Helicity.3416 said:Buff support Tempest, nerf support scrapper.

That is all.

That has a lot to do with the problem of wvw game play. Its still kind of crazy that anet went after tempest 10 target effects before going after ANY thing on scrapper. With the talk that there going to be another set of nerf coming to the tempest class though core ele nerfs (aura clears seems to be what getting hit) shows us as a player base there is active hate by anet for the ele class.

Just the super speed support alone is game braking of a tempest vs scrapper support mach up of usefulness.

When it comes to dmg weaver vs rev its about cd cast times and cc effects. MS is on a some what low cd but its cast time alone with out any means of making it faster cast but the need to use part cast just to make it viable vs endless super speed from rev and scrappers is just sad balancing on anet end (ele should be rewarded for doing a full cast not punished).

Arck dps is a joke to tell you your playing well when it should be wining fights and getting downs that you KNOW is from your skills.

Still no good reason why anet hates ele classes over all. Every suggestion of balance for ele up to this point has too much to do with other classes then ele it self showing there may even be hate from the over all gw2 community. Or the community realy has no ideal what they understand about wvw combat getting too much into bech marks and numbers with out looking at the moment to moment combat of a fight getting ppl down ccing them or even stopping groups from pulling off bombs (all witch you cant see from program numbers). Auras effects are a good example of all of this and sums up anet feelings for the class an effect that only ele for the most parts gets and no one knows if they are doing any thing in a fight. All because anet chose to hid ele effects causing massive underestimation and over all pushing ppl out of the class. Its goes a bit beyond hate to try to delete the class from the game with out deleting it.

[Downstate.4697]

10 targets was a stupid idea to begin with

[zinkz.7045]

@"Jski.6180" said:Still no good reason why anet hates ele classes over all.

Ele was meta in WvW for most of the life of this game, where as engy for example did not have a proper meta build for the first 6 or so years of this game, until they eventually reworked scrapper. The notion that Anet "hates" ele is absolutely laughable.

[Jski.6180]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:Still no good reason why anet hates ele classes over all.

Ele was meta in WvW for most of the life of this game, where as engy for example did not have a proper meta build for the first 6 or so years of this game, until they eventually reworked scrapper. The notion that Anet "hates" ele is absolutely laughable.

Right but that soon to be chasing as time progress the more we move away from the core gw2 game and we move into most of gw2 being power creeped out of old effects and skills. Even then there were massive nerfs to the ele class in wvw because of both spvp and pve that was never fixed when they made the balancing split. To not call that hate is beyond me.

I mean most pAoE are 5+ targets effects and as well as cone skills and realty any pulsing effects also lines still are very much 10 target effects both support and aggressive. In a wvw environment classes that have 1 hit skills only being 5 targets are weaker then 5 target pulsing effect and cone effects are far better then pAoE. Tempest lost a lot of this in the last few nerfs but other classes like eng still have there effects as well as just strate power creep effects that tempest has but massively stronger and lower cd (in what world is eye of the storm super speed on part with any thing scrapper gives out as well as boons healing clears).

[HappyHubris.1096]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"The Boz.2038" said:They

really

messed up the skill selection with the weapons. They almost had a good idea with the "you can't swap weapons, you got elements", but then they messed it up with the skills.Every weapon combination in water provides area healing. There is no condition damage weapon set; just dance around between fire and earth, using weapons that either suck or not. Earth? Defense, CC, bleeds in every set. Air? Damage and single target CC in every set. Always. You can't design around it!Elements should have their identities, their niches, yeah sure, but every single weapon doesn't have to have all of them. It would have been perfectly acceptable if, say, scepter/focus water had no heals, but emphasized the chill/vulnerability side of the element more.

This guy gets it.

If it's impossible for a build to exclude some stuff (like area healing, CC, etc.), then you also shouldn't be allowed to exceed at any of your tasks. Why should you do comparable damage like a build that is completely dedicated to damage, while you also provide so much other stuff like group healing, CC?

This is the underlying problem of the elementalist. All weapons are doing this stuff you mention there, just with different flavour.

The flaw with this line of thinking is that being able to do a bit of everything is that it means that you're only doing a bit of anything at a given time.Let's say for example that you're in full Celestial gear with well-rounded talents that you let do 40% of a healer's healing in water and 40% of a damage-dealer's DPS in fire and air. You can't do them all at once, so you'd only be 40% as good as a more specialized player. Content generally doesn't reward "being able to do a bit of multiple things in the same fight" as much as "doing one thing really, really well."

WoW had the same argument about druids for years.

[Jski.6180]

A missing class over all from the game is an good example of how anet hates the ele class is the lack of an "mages" support class. The ideal of an "mages" support is a glass canon class (low hp /low def) but they do not do dmg they heal stronger then any "tankly" support class.

Gw2 sadly only has tankly support as the system of support in gw2 is very rudimentary and the ability to have tankly gear and support gear at the same time and nearly a requirement to play any thing but all in dmg. All of ele strongest healing effects are 600 or less with only a few being 1,200 what is long range in gw2. All of the class boon support is 240 ranged with a very few 600 ish. This is not bad just for the ele class but bad for over all game play (an example of how anet hates to ele class is causing harm to the wvw game type over all).

The question is WHY this balancing chose WHY this endless hate for any thing ele or ele related?

[Arheundel.6451]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:Still no good reason why anet hates ele classes over all.

Ele was meta in WvW for most of the life of this game, where as engy for example did not have a proper meta build for the first 6 or so years of this game, until they eventually reworked scrapper. The notion that Anet "hates" ele is absolutely laughable.

Given how scrapper was released in 2015 and GW2 launched in 2012...I call it BS garbage your statement as scrapper was pretty much wvw meta since day 1 of launch and briefly dropped down to good rank after few gyro nerfs, only to be buffed back to full force some months later.

Ele was meta staff probably for 2 years after launch, in 2015 staff ele got shafted left and right with nerfs and ele was not meta anymore till the release of tempest with which the class stayed afloat for a good while before the obvious wagon of nerfs claimed the class once again

Overall you may want to take your selective memory and compare it with the actual facts

[Jobber.6348]

Ele is designed to be a master of all but at the same time, the game limits them from being a master of all anyway due to gear stating.It's bad design combined with armor stating that makes them so weak, but then again makes them so volatile to balance.

Ironically, Anet introduces another master of all : Firebrand. Lol.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Yasai.3549 said:Ele is designed to be a master of all but at the same time, the game limits them from being a master of all anyway due to gear stating.It's bad design combined with armor stating that makes them so weak, but then again makes them so volatile to balance.

Ironically, Anet introduces another master of all : Firebrand. Lol.

Ele was designed to be master of nothing and trader of different sets and other professions were supposed to be able to specialize only in one thing at the same time at the expense of other parameters like this :

ele - Attack 5 Defense 5 and Support 5Other professions - Attack 8 Defense 3 and Support 3

But with time through the addition of elites and overbuffing due to whining we have :

ele - Attack 4 Defense 4 and Support 4Other professions - Attack 7 Defense 5 and Support 6

The end result is that other professions got overbuffed while ele has been left mostly in the gutter, what make it worst is that many aspects deemed to powerful to have on ele ( sustain and mobility or super burst) got applied later to the power of 10 to other professions

Double standards and bias at its finest

[pikachu.2510]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:Still no good reason why anet hates ele classes over all.

Ele was meta in WvW for most of the life of this game, where as engy for example did not have a proper meta build for the first 6 or so years of this game, until they eventually reworked scrapper. The notion that Anet "hates" ele is absolutely laughable.

Given how scrapper was released in 2015 and GW2 launched in 2012...

I call it BS garbage

your statement as scrapper was pretty much wvw meta since day 1 of launch and briefly dropped down to good rank after few gyro nerfs, only to be buffed back to full force some months later.

Ele was meta staff probably for 2 years after launch, in 2015 staff ele got shafted left and right with nerfs and ele was not meta anymore till the release of tempest with which the class stayed afloat for a good while before the obvious wagon of nerfs claimed the class once again

Overall you may want to take your selective memory and compare it with the actual facts

Staff ele was meta till HoT, then Tempest took over from HoT to PoF and then Weaver was good until the pve nerfs which anet decided warranted a game wide nerf lol

[Jski.6180]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Ele is designed to be a master of all but at the same time, the game limits them from being a master of all anyway due to gear stating.It's bad design combined with armor stating that makes them so weak, but then again makes them so volatile to balance.

Ironically, Anet introduces another master of all : Firebrand. Lol.

Ele was designed to be master of nothing and trader of different sets and other professions were supposed to be able to specialize only in one thing at the same time at the expense of other parameters like this :

ele - Attack 5 Defense 5 and Support 5Other professions - Attack 8 Defense 3 and Support 3

But with time through the addition of elites and overbuffing due to whining we have :

ele - Attack 4 Defense 4 and Support 4Other professions - Attack 7 Defense 5 and Support 6

The end result is that other professions got overbuffed while ele has been left mostly in the gutter, what make it worst is that many aspects deemed to powerful to have on ele ( sustain and mobility or super burst) got applied later to the power of 10 to other professions

Double standards and bias at its finest

That a lie ppl tell them self at lest gw2 healing was never a thing till HoT even ele had bad support healing before HoT the ideal of being able to do every thing had more to do with being able to self heal not support and even during thoughts time every class was very much able to self heal some what well.

By today def of being able to do every thing the old core ele could NOT do every thing. By today def of being able to do every thing ele is still not able to do every thing as there a massive condi / soft cc meta as well as counter def that ele cant do any thing with real effect.

This is not the reason for anet hates this is what ppl are telling them self. There is something deeper that anet seems to despise the very ideal of ele as a class in the gw2 world.

[pikachu.2510]

@Jski.6180 said:

That a lie ppl tell them self at lest gw2 healing was never a thing till HoT even ele had bad support healing before HoT the ideal of being able to do every thing had more to do with being able to self heal not support and even during thoughts time every class was very much able to self heal some what well.

Core ele in core days could Damage, Drop water fields so your team can blast to heal themselves, Static fields, old unsteady ground it really could do a bit of everything, but it wasn't necerssarily overpowered (and those were the better days of WvW in general)

[Jski.6180]

@pikachu.2510 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

That a lie ppl tell them self at lest gw2 healing was never a thing till HoT even ele had bad support healing before HoT the ideal of being able to do every thing had more to do with being able to self heal not support and even during thoughts time every class was very much able to self heal some what well.

Core ele in core days could Damage, Drop water fields so your team can blast to heal themselves, Static fields, old unsteady ground it really could do a bit of everything, but it wasn't necerssarily overpowered (and those were the better days of WvW in general)

That was back when the ele could not self blast as well and anet had the mind set you play a class who could put fields out OR a class who could combo thoughts fields. The healing amount was always base off of the one blasting not the field maker. It was the gurd who where blasting not the eles so it was the gurds who could do every thing the ele only enabled them but where not doing it on there own. What good balancing looks like not the mess we have now from anet trying to force raids into the game some how effecting wvw and spvp.

BUT anet hates ele a lot and has taken every thing form it and given it to other classes and nerfed ele by doing so to nothing. This is not because ele can kind of do healing dmg and cc partly at the same time. There is something more about the class that some how dose not fit into the gw2 world as seen by anet action to the class it self. That and there is a LOT of form suppression for the talk about ele and ele related effects.

[Jski.6180]

So yes anet HATE ele and every thing about ele.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Quote

Profession Skills

Elementalist

We feel that the elementalist has been in a very good place since the July 2020 balance update. Both Tempests and Weavers have effective high damage power and condition damage builds available, while the Tempest is also powerful in a support role.

We weren't completely happy that the top-end power and condition damage elementalist builds have had approximately the same sustained damage, so we're making some minor, targeted reductions to the power builds and increases to condition damage sources to help condition-damage builds really shine on bosses and other hard targets, and to ensure that they aren't left behind by the effect that the torment condition change has for other professions.

Scepter

Flamestrike: Total casting time reduced by 25%.

Warhorn

Wildfire: Burning duration increased from 2.5 seconds to 3 seconds.

Lightning Orb: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.45 to 0.36 in PvE. This matches the existing power coefficient in PvP and WvW.

Weaver

Elements of Rage: Strike damage bonus reduced from 10% to 5%. Increases condition damage by 5%.

 

 

I love how we have a text to explain you how OP is elem in raids (???????)  and 3 notes   when almost all others classes already have muh more lanes and explanaition.

It could be a good balance for condi builds in both PvP and PvE, we don't know, but for now sounds like

devs still don't know either.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Dont worry, they buffed flamestrike! Meanwhile half of elemenalist traits are useless with water being pointless except for aura sharing in niche support roles, power builds in pvp are still100% dependent on fresh air or lightning rod, weaver getting damage traits nerfed when they already have pretty weak dps/utility traits... There is so much that needs work and we basically get told "yeah weaver is too strong because of theoretical spreadsheet dps".

[Jski.6180]

7 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

 

I love how we have a text to explain you how OP is elem in raids (???????)  and 3 notes   when almost all others classes already have muh more lanes and explanaition.

It could be a good balance for condi builds in both PvP and PvE, we don't know, but for now sounds like

devs still don't know either.

I love the part where they nerf power dmg to make condi better but the only condi dmg they touch is burning and do NOTHING for bleeding.

 

I am not sure how much more evidences ppl need to see anet hate the ele class and every thing about it. I just do not understand WHY!?

[Zeesh.7286]

just here to rant at the kittening nerf on elements of rage that will hurt power weavers in wvw and pvp too. WHAT THE ACTUAL kitten ANET???? TO BRING CONDI DAMAGE UP YOU'RE NERFING POWER DAMAGE?????????? WHY NOT JUST ADD A MODIFIER TO CONDI ON IT! WHAT THE ACTUAL kitten?? WHY ?? WHYYY???? WAS POWER WEAVER KICKING OUT OTHER DAMAGE CLASSES IN RAIDS AND FRACTALS?? OMFG. *facepalms to death* 

Congratz to all the FA and Lightning rod eles. 🙂 We got nerfed for no reason again!

[Jski.6180]

You MUST be an azen to play ele in wvw Pain inverter is stronger then any defensive skill ele as a class has as it has no light field or a way to get retaliation or what will become the new condi protection. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pain_Inverter

 

The level of hate anet has for the ele class is beyond believe.

[Vindicate.6951]

As someone who actively plays every part of PvE (cm fracs, Raids etc...) as a Power Weaver I am kinda astonished why they decided to give weaver the power nerf.

Altough it is a rather small nerf considering that in the power weaver rotation is still a % dmg done off of burning, its still not justified at all when we compare ourselves to condi revs or cfb doing a ton of dmg and I can only imagine this "adjustment" towards conditions will bottomline benefit every condi spec.

But at least they realized chronos were just broken dps-wise, it only took them "several" months.

 

And here I thought being the actual squishiest class ingame with one of the most difficult rotations to pull off during encounters would at least net you a top spot in most encounters, well we are viable in PvE aspects, but definetly got the short stick considering our survivability.

[Emberheart.8426]

4 hours ago, Vindicate.6951 said:

As someone who actively plays every part of PvE (cm fracs, Raids etc...) as a Power Weaver I am kinda astonished why they decided to give weaver the power nerf.

Altough it is a rather small nerf considering that in the power weaver rotation is still a % dmg done off of burning, its still not justified at all when we compare ourselves to condi revs or cfb doing a ton of dmg and I can only imagine this "adjustment" towards conditions will bottomline benefit every condi spec.

But at least they realized chronos were just broken dps-wise, it only took them "several" months.

 

And here I thought being the actual squishiest class ingame with one of the most difficult rotations to pull off during encounters would at least net you a top spot in most encounters, well we are viable in PvE aspects, but definetly got the short stick considering our survivability.

I get the impression that they don't want power weaver or even power tempest to be worth playing anymore. They would interfere too much with the shiny new elite spec.

 

Weaver is supposed to be a Condi spec now. Just accept it. There are no benefits to power at all.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Ganathar.4956

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I am pretty disappointed that they did nothing to help heal tempest in any game mode.  Instead, we got paltry quickness on scrapper and obtuse alacrity on mirage.  

[Vindicate.6951]

2 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I am pretty disappointed that they did nothing to help heal tempest in any game mode.  Instead, we got paltry quickness on scrapper and obtuse alacrity on mirage.  

 

But didnt you read Anet's comment on Support Tempest still being a "strong" support role? Altough we cant buff alac or quickness and are outshined by a druid in terms of might stacking since druids have a ton of other utilities, but at least we can remove condis efficiently?

No clue, apparently tempest is still top tier in the eyes of Anet, I cant see it though.

[Jski.6180]

Another update another forget ele is even a class in there game. I think anet despises the ele call i kind of wish they would just delete it from the game at this point.

[WindBlade.8749]

On 4/8/2021 at 4:01 AM, Yasai.3549 said:

Ele is designed to be a master of all but at the same time, the game limits them from being a master of all anyway due to gear stating.It's bad design combined with armor stating that makes them so weak, but then again makes them so volatile to balance.

Ironically, Anet introduces another master of all : Firebrand. Lol.

i always seen Firebrand like an elementalist spec

F1 grimoire = condi damage (wait fire atunnement)

F2 grimoire = healing + cleans (wait water atunnement)

F3 grimoire = defense with aegis, stab and other (not the same type of defense as earth but earth still focus on defense, also it's better since it's boon so teamate can get it to opposed to block and invurlnerable skill)

 

Who need air lol (ok so it's just because air is the power atunnement and FB is a condi class that they didn't put a power grimoire).