Is Guild Wars 2 Pay2win?

[Tildorel.4723]

I tend to interpret Pay2Win to mean "spend RL money to trivialise game content in terms of either the skill or time required to achieve success in that game"... in the same way people use terms like "press 1 to win" to describe game activities that they consider trivially easy to do (often when referring to a perceived dumbing-down of content).

On that basis I wouldn't say GW2 is P2W because I can't think of anything in the store that has that big an impact on game progress. Expansions might be the closest, but I'm inclined to agree with those who don't see full expansions as P2W, firstly because they contain a lot of content that you're paying for beside any "boost" you might get, but also because you typically have to work through content within the expansion in order to get the boost. Neither especs nor mounts are available to you if you don't do the hero points and quest lines, for example. Expansions have existed in many games for many years and they often include an ability to progress beyond the base game, both in terms of character progression and content, but I've rarely heard them described as P2W - more like P2P.

I'm not claiming mine is a definitive definition, and I doubt such a thing exists - I'm not aware of any source that could legitimately claim to be the unique authority on the subject. Of course, a broader interpretation is possible, but that does run the risk of just encompassing the vast majority of games - basically anything with an expansion or paid DLC that confers any kind of benefit (and if it confers no benefit, why would anyone buy it?); arguably any game you pay for, since you can't "win" the game if you can't play it! Different people will have different views on what constitutes "winning", especially in an MMO that is designed to cater for various playstyles and interests and that has no definitive final achievement (as some SP games do) - so on this point there will be no right answers, only opinions.

As to whether the paid transactions in GW2 harm the game (which is perhaps the more important question), I'm inclined to say they don't significantly. The benefits they confer are minor and the positioning much less predatory than other games. The only way you'll get away from a game like this pushing microtransactions is to switch to a sub model, which I suspect would harm the game a lot more!

Tildorel

[Maikimaik.1974]

@Swagger.1459 said:@Leo G.4501

“MY perspective is that P2W, in GW2, takes form in buying currency with cash that can transfer into power.”

What statistically advantageous “power” is only available for those willing to fork over cash?

Does this “power” allow a paying customer to defeat or win against someone who didn’t spend the cash?

And I would like buy this “power” with my credit card today, so where is it on the gemstore or in game?

This thread has been going on for 4 pages and not a single person who voted yes has been able to show why they think gem to gold conversion is pay 2 win.

[Obtena.7952]

It's always been amusing to me that people take such offense to P2W concepts ... yet play a game where you can literally buy almost anything you want with RL money, including some BiS gear.

[Linken.6345]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Yes, it

objectively

is pay to win.Elite specializations are stronger than core professions and one needs to pay to use them.

Expansions witch contain elite specialiations are not considered pay to win.Instead you pay to continue playing the game.

Not sure ALL core classes would be accepted in raids.

Well you cant access raids with a core account so that point is kinda moot.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Go play a game which has real pay-to-win. Join a guild and listen to the bitter complaints in chat about how this whale, or that set of whales is auto-attacking everything and getting 200 kills in a 20 minute match. Then we can discuss whether GW2 is pay-to-win.

• Disclaimer: I'm not a big fan of GW2 right now, so this is not me defending the game. It is kind of funny, though, the lengths to which people will go to win a point on the internet.

Pay to win my behind. Right now that term has been so misappropriated that it has lost most of its meaning. GL/HF

[Ashen.2907]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Yes, it

objectively

is pay to win.Elite specializations are stronger than core professions and one needs to pay to use them.

Expansions witch contain elite specialiations are not considered pay to win.Instead you pay to continue playing the game.

Not sure ALL core classes would be accepted in raids.

Sure they are. Depends on the group.

[Swagger.1459]

@Maikimaik.1974 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:@Leo G.4501

“MY perspective is that P2W, in GW2, takes form in buying currency with cash that can transfer into power.”

What statistically advantageous “power” is only available for those willing to fork over cash?

Does this “power” allow a paying customer to defeat or win against someone who didn’t spend the cash?

And I would like buy this “power” with my credit card today, so where is it on the gemstore or in game?

This thread has been going on for 4 pages and not a single person who voted yes has been able to show why they think gem to gold conversion is pay 2 win.

It’s not fair that the people who voted yes bought “power” and are keeping the location of the “power” merchants a secret from the rest of us! And here I thought GW2 had the best community... :(

[ArchonWing.9480]

What are we winning again?

Idc how many bank tabs you have; that won't help you any in combat.

How many top raid guilds win because they bought more gem store stuff? How much money can you spend before you do top raid clears and win at PvP?

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@"IndigoSundown.5419" said:Go play a game which has real pay-to-win. Join a guild and listen to the bitter complaints in chat about how this whale, or that set of whales is auto-attacking everything and getting 200 kills in a 20 minute match. Then we can discuss whether GW2 is pay-to-win.

• Disclaimer: I'm not a big fan of GW2 right now, so this is not me defending the game. It is kind of funny, though, the lengths to which people will go to win a point on the internet.

Pay to win my behind. Right now that term has been so misappropriated that it has lost most of its meaning. GL/HF

Unfortunately welcome to the reality that is the video game community in the West. Where "You can buy bag expansion slots" is an argument for why something is pay to win even though that literally makes no sense. People are far too concerned with what everyone else around them is doing on a video game to such a point that they view non-competitive open world PvE as a competition and how dare someone ever buy more bag space than they can. The fact not withstanding that gear and bag space contribute absolutely nothing to an actual competitive environment on GW2 because gear is irrelevant and bag space is also irrelevant as gold earned from grinding meta events and accumulating items has less value in attaining gear due to gear being irrelevant.

Really curious as to how people would apparently define "winning" in this game if "getting more bag space" is apparently part of that criteria.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:And you're the one that's painting someone's opinion in a negative light, not me. :wink:

Nice try. Picking apart people because their player skill level is laughable to you is pretty negative ;)

Quote me where i said his skills are laughable to me or anything of the sort.

Also, can you please get back on topic in your next post as well?

But doesn't you quoting someone who is making fun of someone's player skill even if you're not explicitly stating such mean that you agree with that quoted point thus you are guilty by association? No? Might want to inform your buddy @""robertthebard.8150" about that (emphasis bolded):

Where the hell did you get that idea that just by quoting i agree? I quoted the part i'm commenting on, that's all quoting is, no matter what you want it to be. I never agreed with the quote, just used it to further my point which is - the guys premise was flawed in my opinion. You accused me of making fun of him which i never did. Just quoting someone that did think it was laughable, doesn't mean i share his opinion jesus christ, now i'm guilty by association, and even funnier, i don't know robertthebard other than this quote. And just having an opinion on something, doesn't automatically mean i'm laughing at someone.So no, just quoting someone doesn't mean i agree with them. I quoted you after all...The lengths people will go to smear someone and shift the attention away from their failed arguments, i swear...Nice distraction by going on a tangent leo, but come on, stick to the topic and your own arguments about the topic.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

Really curious as to how people would apparently define "winning" in this game if "getting more bag space" is apparently part of that criteria.

"You have something I don't have, and that angers me"

Entitlement is pretty extreme around these parts.

[Ashen.2907]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

Really curious as to how people would apparently define "winning" in this game if "getting more bag space" is apparently part of that criteria.

"You have something I don't have, and that angers me"

Entitlement is pretty extreme around these parts.

Not just these parts unfortunately.

[Gombie.3860]

PvP not really. And there's nothing to "win" in pve it plays almost like a single player game with drop in multiplayer.

[frareanselm.1925]

If you play for fashion wars yes is pay to win because gemstore skins are in other level. Also there are no cool capes and mounts in the game.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Yes, it

objectively

is pay to win.Elite specializations are stronger than core professions and one needs to pay to use them.

Expansions witch contain elite specialiations are not considered pay to win.Instead you pay to continue playing the game.

Not sure ALL core classes would be accepted in raids.

Well you cant access raids with a core account so that point is kinda moot.

Ouf, that comment went right over your head ;-/

[Linken.6345]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Yes, it

objectively

is pay to win.Elite specializations are stronger than core professions and one needs to pay to use them.

Expansions witch contain elite specialiations are not considered pay to win.Instead you pay to continue playing the game.

Not sure ALL core classes would be accepted in raids.

Well you cant access raids with a core account so that point is kinda moot.

Ouf, that comment went right over your head ;-/

Well only reason to only have core specs is if you dont own hot or pof.So you cant access raids anyway.What about your comment went over my head?

[Veprovina.4876]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Yes, it

objectively

is pay to win.Elite specializations are stronger than core professions and one needs to pay to use them.

Expansions witch contain elite specialiations are not considered pay to win.Instead you pay to continue playing the game.

Not sure ALL core classes would be accepted in raids.

Well you cant access raids with a core account so that point is kinda moot.

Ouf, that comment went right over your head ;-/

Well only reason to only have core specs is if you dont own hot or pof.So you cant access raids anyway.What about your comment went over my head?

He was probably talking that you should access raids with core? idk... Kind as if Raids are P2W content because cores can't acces them? Idk...

[robertthebard.8150]

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Yes, it

objectively

is pay to win.Elite specializations are stronger than core professions and one needs to pay to use them.

Expansions witch contain elite specialiations are not considered pay to win.Instead you pay to continue playing the game.

Not sure ALL core classes would be accepted in raids.

Well you cant access raids with a core account so that point is kinda moot.

Ouf, that comment went right over your head ;-/

Well only reason to only have core specs is if you dont own hot or pof.So you cant access raids anyway.What about your comment went over my head?

He was probably talking that you should access raids with core? idk... Kind as if Raids are P2W content because cores can't acces them? Idk...

I think it's more likely that you can still roll with a core spec, even with the expansions. I know I have a thief that does, along with one in each of the specs.

[Lucio.4190]

I'd say you can buy small advantages with real money. Getting extra storage is helpful, until that storage is full again.Getting the farming equipment save some in-game gold and buying gems that are converted to gold can buy that legendary gear much faster.But if that is the definition of P2W, then yes. GW2 is P2W.

But is it that easy? You buying a legendary gear will make you a winner? You will still need to learn the game, the mechanics, your build and you opponents build. Money can't buy that.Even if you wear a legendary suit, you'll still get hurt and the probability of losing is pretty high if you can't play that class.

Spending $500 on a gear that can't guarantee victories in a game doesn't sound very healthy, in my opinion. But I would... maybe.. spend $500 on a Legendary Mankini. My Charr would love that.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Yes, it

objectively

is pay to win.Elite specializations are stronger than core professions and one needs to pay to use them.

Expansions witch contain elite specialiations are not considered pay to win.Instead you pay to continue playing the game.

Not sure ALL core classes would be accepted in raids.

Well you cant access raids with a core account so that point is kinda moot.

Ouf, that comment went right over your head ;-/

Well only reason to only have core specs is if you dont own hot or pof.So you cant access raids anyway.What about your comment went over my head?

He was probably talking that you should access raids with core? idk... Kind as if Raids are P2W content because cores can't acces them? Idk...

Maybe if Gw2 is a f2p game, but it's actually a buy 2p so.....

P2W mostly applies to f2p games where progression is much easier done via micro transactions so that f2p wastes a lot more time. Yes, you can play Gw2 for free, but it's more of a demo than anything else. Having to buy the game is NOT p2w; that's just absurd. Otherwise, every game with an expansion would be p2w.

[Veprovina.4876]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Yes, it

objectively

is pay to win.Elite specializations are stronger than core professions and one needs to pay to use them.

Expansions witch contain elite specialiations are not considered pay to win.Instead you pay to continue playing the game.

Not sure ALL core classes would be accepted in raids.

Well you cant access raids with a core account so that point is kinda moot.

Ouf, that comment went right over your head ;-/

Well only reason to only have core specs is if you dont own hot or pof.So you cant access raids anyway.What about your comment went over my head?

He was probably talking that you should access raids with core? idk... Kind as if Raids are P2W content because cores can't acces them? Idk...

I think it's more likely that you can still roll with a core spec, even with the expansions. I know I have a thief that does, along with one in each of the specs.

No, i meant core acounts, sorry for the confusion.I think that was the argument, that core accounts can't do raids, therefore raids are p2w or somehthing...Like i said, i don't know what the poster meant by that, i'm just guessing.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Yes, it

objectively

is pay to win.Elite specializations are stronger than core professions and one needs to pay to use them.

Expansions witch contain elite specialiations are not considered pay to win.Instead you pay to continue playing the game.

Not sure ALL core classes would be accepted in raids.

Well you cant access raids with a core account so that point is kinda moot.

Ouf, that comment went right over your head ;-/

Well only reason to only have core specs is if you dont own hot or pof.So you cant access raids anyway.What about your comment went over my head?

He was probably talking that you should access raids with core? idk... Kind as if Raids are P2W content because cores can't acces them? Idk...

I think it's more likely that you can still roll with a core spec, even with the expansions. I know I have a thief that does, along with one in each of the specs.

No, i meant core acounts, sorry for the confusion.I think that was the argument, that core accounts can't do raids, therefore raids are p2w or somehthing...Like i said, i don't know what the poster meant by that, i'm just guessing.

Yeah, I was guessing at the poster's intent too.

[Veprovina.4876]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Yes, it

objectively

is pay to win.Elite specializations are stronger than core professions and one needs to pay to use them.

Expansions witch contain elite specialiations are not considered pay to win.Instead you pay to continue playing the game.

Not sure ALL core classes would be accepted in raids.

Well you cant access raids with a core account so that point is kinda moot.

Ouf, that comment went right over your head ;-/

Well only reason to only have core specs is if you dont own hot or pof.So you cant access raids anyway.What about your comment went over my head?

He was probably talking that you should access raids with core? idk... Kind as if Raids are P2W content because cores can't acces them? Idk...

Maybe if Gw2 is a f2p game, but it's actually a buy 2p so.....

P2W mostly applies to f2p games where progression is much easier done via micro transactions so that f2p wastes a lot more time. Yes, you can play Gw2 for free, but it's more of a demo than anything else. Having to buy the game is NOT p2w; that's just absurd. Otherwise, every game with an expansion would be p2w.

Oops, somehow missed your post, sorry.

Yes, the f2p version of GW2 is basically one huge demo, the actual full game is buy to play, always was and still is. Its just that some entitled people try to skew this into GW2 being a f2p game. It's not. There's a f2p version, but the full game is not free.

And if GW2 was f2p, even then calling it p2w would be a stretch, i mean, after level 80 you're never stronger than anyone else and nothing you can buy will change that so...

[White Kitsunee.4620]

In direct you could call GW2 pay2win, gems -> gold -> buys a full exotic set. Which is what you need to raid, which could be considered 'winning'. which if you take two fresh accounts one with gems one without, yea 1's probably going to be going at it faster.In practice though the 'p2w' items you get are so easy to get through normal means I don't really think it matters. Besides that you can't buy ascended gear with money.And what's beyond that? The rune salvager? There's really nothing.This is like when people complain that league of legends is P2W, right by definition but no one cares

[Veprovina.4876]

@"White Kitsunee.4620" said:yea 1's probably going to be going at it faster.

Isn't "faster" then just a convenience? Both accounts can arrive at the same destination and when they do, the gem paying one won't be any stronger than the non paying one. They'll just arrive there faster. So it's still kind of pay for convenience, not pay to win.