Mystic Coin Scarcity Problem - [Merged]

[ASP.8093]

The current Legendary economy is one of the few ways to actually make money doing WvW stuff (by earning Clovers directly and then converting them to sellable T1 legendaries, and by selling your Mystic Coins since you don't need to burn stacks of them to make Clovers). I am very much okay with other people paying me for this.

[T G.7496]

@Zephire.8049 said:There will always be extremely wealthy people who can just throw money at what they want but it makes zero sense to punish everyone else because of a handful of people, which is what you want to do.

I'm pretty rich.

I can throw money at what I want.

But, ya know, that's not an accident, and it's not luck, and it's not cos I'm super clever or cos I play the TP or anything like that.

I'll tell you exactly how I made all my gold. I crafted legendaries and sold them. That's it. Simples.

It's not magic, and it's not particularly difficult. It's not something you can do overnight, and it does, absolutely, require some effort and a lot of patience.

But it is, absolutely, something every player can achieve. If they want to, and are prepared to make the effort.

Why play victim, when you have all the means at your disposal to improve your situation?

[Zephire.8049]

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:

@Zephire.8049 said:There will always be extremely wealthy people who can just throw money at what they want but it makes zero sense to punish everyone else because of a handful of people, which is what you want to do.

I'm pretty rich.

I can throw money at what I want.

But, ya know, that's not an accident, and it's not luck, and it's not cos I'm super clever or cos I play the TP or anything like that.

I'll tell you

exactly

how I made all my gold. I crafted legendaries and sold them. That's it. Simples.

It's not magic, and it's not particularly difficult. It's not something you can do overnight, and it does, absolutely, require some effort and a lot of patience.

But it is, absolutely, something every player can achieve. If they want to, and are prepared to make the effort.

Why play victim, when you have all the means at your disposal to improve your situation?

What's your point? 'cause mine was the OP's suggestion to punish people for knowing how to make legendaries would harm average players far more. Take away the recipe and the average player has to stick to time-gated methods that would take them months to get 77 clovers if their time was limited, and that's assuming they start getting mystic clovers in their loyalty chests right away.

People with gold would just find other ways to make gold and legendary flipping would be streamlined since it would still be profitable, if not more so because it would be harder for people make them casually thus reducing supply while demand won't change.

No one's playing a victim but you.

[Zaxares.5419]

@"Veprovina.4876" said:I think, while i agree with you for the most part, that would anger a lot of people because they'd be thinking they're forced to do modes they don't like. Especially if there's a MC reward for raids as well, people would be furious lol. From what i read on the forums, and that's by no means the "general consensus" but still.... If there's a rare reward for something, people feel like it's an obligation rather than an option, and that doesn't sit well with most.

Though, one way of increasing supply would be to just get 1 MC for any finished daily. That way people can still do what they like, and the supply increases.And honestly, i don't even think prices would drop much with that, if at all, cause i'm sure barons would find a way to "stabilize" the price to what suits them lol. Kind of a win/win i guess haha.

Technically there already is a MC reward for Fractal CMs. Each Fractal CM boss has a chance to drop between 1-3 Mystic Coins, so theoretically you could get 24 MCs a day just from CMs, although the chances of that are stupidly low. I actually wouldn't be against adding MCs as a reward to raids either; I always thought it was a bit of a shame how the raid reward structure basically entices you to complete each encounter once, and then you get piddly rewards for any subsequent completion, meaning that there's very little incentive for veteran raiders to jump in and help out training or practice runs, making the mode even more niche and difficult to get into. (Compare that to Fractals, where you still get Encryptions for completing fractals repeatedly, which sell for quite a decent amount.)

Anyway, going back to what you said about people feeling "forced" to do modes they don't like, it's already fairly easy to get most of the dailies without much investment. For WvW, just pick out the 3 easiest dailies. For PvP, either do the basic dailies in Custom Arenas, and then either play Ranked Season or ATs (ATs would probably be the easier option since you complete it just for participating in the tournament, regardless of whether you win or lose.) If that still doesn't appeal to them, they still get 1 extra MC per day for sticking with the mode of their choice, and over time the extra supply should push prices back down to the point where players no longer feel pressured to do all of them.

@Khisanth.2948 said:or it gives an infusion of more bots, semi-afk teammates, and teammates who are worse than a bot. I am pretty sure PvP has more than enough of those already.

With regards to bots, I am of the firm opinion that ANet needs to devote more resources to stamping them out. They should not be permitted to continue in PvP regardless of whether or not the mode gets more popular. Currently it can take months for a well-known bot to be banned; I have no idea why it takes so long. :/ Faster turnaround on reports would go a long way towards improving the game mode. As for poor teammates, I honestly think that ANet needs to split Ranked PvP back into Solo and Team Queues again. That way, if you're not willing to roll the dice on randos, form your own 5 man team and go in with peace of mind. For those that stick with Solo Queue, assuming a large enough population, over time poor teammates should get pushed down to the lower rankings where they should be playing anyway. The main problem I see right now in Ranked is that the PvP population is just too small; you're getting Platinum+ players getting matched up against Gold and Silver players, which isn't fun for either side. The Plat players aren't getting a proper challenge, and the lower players are getting roflstomped by opponents they have no chance against.

[ASP.8093]

It's not "scarcity" if thousands of the things are available for just a few coppers above the sell-it-now price.

[T G.7496]

@Zephire.8049 said:

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:

@Zephire.8049 said:There will always be extremely wealthy people who can just throw money at what they want but it makes zero sense to punish everyone else because of a handful of people, which is what you want to do.

I'm pretty rich.

I can throw money at what I want.

But, ya know, that's not an accident, and it's not luck, and it's not cos I'm super clever or cos I play the TP or anything like that.

I'll tell you

exactly

how I made all my gold. I crafted legendaries and sold them. That's it. Simples.

It's not magic, and it's not particularly difficult. It's not something you can do overnight, and it does, absolutely, require some effort and a lot of patience.

But it is, absolutely, something every player can achieve. If they want to, and are prepared to make the effort.

Why play victim, when you have all the means at your disposal to improve your situation?

No one's playing a victim but you.

Well, that's not true. But I understand why you feeling spiky, because I challenged you wrongly. I completely misunderstood your post - apologies.

I thought you were yet another poster whining about how some things are just too hard, or too expensive to acquire.

There've been several threads recently about this, and it just gets old listening to people who are simply too lazy to help themselves, when the means to do so is so straightforward. People just need to be prepared to invest either the time or the money into the things they desire; and, after all, they're the same thing really.

So, in the end, it turns out I am in agreement with you, and simply fail at comprehension.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1) Gen 1 legendaries are the original system for getting a legendary.2) The issue with the price of Mystic Coins has nothing to do with the clover recipe and everything to do the with TP gold cap on trades. This created the need for a separate liquid asset to bypass the TP gold cap.3) For a gen 1 you'd have to speed 2000 gp (ish) to buy off the TP. It is less effort to farm the money to buy all the mats to craft one rather than to buy it directly, but some people don't want to spend all that time at the Mystic Forge crafting clovers.4) Gen2 and above have needless timegates for crating the precursors. Screw that.5) If anyone really want to address the cost of Mystic Coins, then get rid of the Trading Post trade caps, and remove/reduce the listing and selling fees. If there is no longer a need to bypass the TP then there is no longer a need for people to hoard Mystic Coins for gray market trades.6) If you still have a bee in your bonnet that people CHOSE to get a Gen 1 while you CHOSE to get a later generation legendary then kindly realize that you could have made the choice that they did.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:atleast it'd reduce the demand in half...

like... if one guy hoards mystic coins to craft a legendary, ~231 mystic coins required to get 77 clovers(referred from wiki) and that might be an optimistic scenario.. who knows how much more the deviation is... so.. the legy crafter would eventually buy almost twice the mystic coins... so.. if ppl who are hellbent on shouting that the mystic coins price is hiked only because of demand and supply, would accept that the clover recipe contributes to coins shortage significantly...

current price of mc is around 2.2 gold.. if clover recipe restricts clovers to 2 per day, then atleast we can expect a decline in mystic coin price.. and the posts about "mystic coin price controlled by barons/mystic coins price must be fixed" wont appear often on forumsMost people already obtain clovers using new sources for them Anet introduced, and not via the recipe. Notice, how introducing all those sources did absolutely nothing to MC price - it still keeps increasing. Which suggests MC issue lies elsewhere.

[WindBlade.8749]

Yea and now legendary are worthless, it's sad to say but as i hate mc for making legendary, they are the last barrier to keep legendary expensive, close to all others mat asked are cheap nowdays.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"ASP.8093" said:It's not "scarcity" if thousands of the things are available for just a few coppers above the sell-it-now price.If you're wealthy enough, few things are truly scarce. This has nothing to do with overall scarcity of said resource.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Zaxares.5419 said:

@"Veprovina.4876" said:I think, while i agree with you for the most part, that would anger a lot of people because they'd be thinking they're forced to do modes they don't like. Especially if there's a MC reward for raids as well, people would be furious lol. From what i read on the forums, and that's by no means the "general consensus" but still.... If there's a rare reward for something, people feel like it's an obligation rather than an option, and that doesn't sit well with most.

Though, one way of increasing supply would be to just get 1 MC for any finished daily. That way people can still do what they like, and the supply increases.And honestly, i don't even think prices would drop much with that, if at all, cause i'm sure barons would find a way to "stabilize" the price to what suits them lol. Kind of a win/win i guess haha.I actually wouldn't be against adding MCs as a reward to raids either; I always thought it was a bit of a shame how the raid reward structure basically entices you to complete each encounter once, and then you get piddly rewards for any subsequent completion, meaning that there's very little incentive for veteran raiders to jump in and help out training or practice runs, making the mode even more niche and difficult to get into. (Compare that to Fractals, where you still get Encryptions for completing fractals repeatedly, which sell for quite a decent amount.)

Agreed. Even if they gave maybe 1/3 (or some fraction) of the LIs for raid boss kills.

In WvW we’ve kind of asked for the same idea for Skirmish track completion: add in some tickets to the repeatable diamond chest, or add 2 mystic coins to the repeatable diamond chest.

Either way, it gives a level of increased rewards to helping once you’ve ‘maxed’ the weekly rewards.

[Astralporing.1957]

@WindBlade.8749 said:Yea and now legendary are worthlessIf they were indeed worthless, people would not be pursuing them as much as they do. So, perhaps you are mistaken. Or you misunderstand where their worth lies.

[Rihar.3465]

I don't really see a problem here since there are various sources to obtain clovers: gambling with MC, 2/day in fractals lobby, WvW reward tracks, Lunar New Year festival. WvW doesn't give you as much profit as PvE, thus I believe it's fair that in PvE sources you need to spend some gold. The only thing I'd be up to is to remove gambling part from the recipe and make a solid conversion "coin to clover".

With all recent weapon sets added to the game, legendaries devalued significantly, even though they still keep some unique features like footprints and selectable stats with upgrades. GW2 became flashy Korean MMO, and many legendaries are faded behind gem store shinies.

However I believe that MC price trend should be addressed as a separate problem, because MC, as a valuable currency for many recipes, should not be under the control of a bunch of people who spend their incomes completely in GW2. Reminds me the US insulin high cost problem, where its production belongs to pharma's monopoly/cartel and is barely controlled by the government. I don't think ANet see any business threat here (people spend real money, which is good for the company), thus I doubt mystic coins are going to be regulated in any future.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:2) The issue with the price of Mystic Coins has nothing to do with the clover recipe and everything to do the with TP gold cap on trades. This created the need for a separate liquid asset to bypass the TP gold cap.

The TP gold cap isn't really a problem since the people trading with mystic coins are already doing it outside of the TP system.What is a problem there is the Mail/Guild Bank withdrawal gold limit. With the limit at 500g/week it would take 20 weeks to get all your payment after selling something for 10,000g. Nobody wants to wait 5 months to get all their gold while it is sitting in their mail and that is just for 1 trade. A few more trades and it will takes years. Obviously nobody wants that.

5) If anyone really want to address the cost of Mystic Coins, then get rid of the Trading Post trade caps, and remove/reduce the listing and selling fees. If there is no longer a need to bypass the TP then there is no longer a need for people to hoard Mystic Coins for gray market trades.

Removing those fees would have drastic consequences for how the TP operates while leaving it at anything above 0% means it is still more profitable to do it outside the system

@Rihar.3465 said:Reminds me the US insulin high cost problem, where its production belongs to pharma's monopoly/cartel and is barely controlled by the government. I don't think ANet see any business threat here (people spend real money, which is good for the company), thus I doubt mystic coins are going to be regulated in any future.

That comparison doesn't work at all since the coins can be obtained without paying anyone for it AND without negatively affecting anyone else.That comparison becomes even worse when considering the fact that not having the insulin can lead to death while coins are for luxury items.

[WindBlade.8749]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@WindBlade.8749 said:Yea and now legendary are worthlessIf they were indeed worthless, people would not be pursuing them as much as they do. So, perhaps you are mistaken. Or you misunderstand where their worth lies.

You know i speak that they will be worthless in term of crafting price if you make mc price go to really cheap right ?

[Shadowmoon.7986]

You have wvw, pvp, and dizzlewood, all are sources of mystic clovers without coins or rng. You also have a non rng method in fractals. This is a non problem, and is getting annoying seeing the same thread about mystic coins showing up over and over again. Probably mods need to merge this thread with the other mystic coin grief thread.Forgot to mention login rewards that grants 7 clovers every 28 days for free.

[Obtena.7952]

The implication there is a 'shortage' of MC's is rather nonsensical. There CAN'T be a shortage of items you get for FREE over time. Maybe you don't get as many as you want when you want them ... but that certainly is not honest to say that's a 'shortage'.

[Cleopatra.4068]

@Obtena.7952 said:The implication there is a 'shortage' of MC's is rather nonsensical. There CAN'T be a shortage of items you get for FREE over time. Maybe you don't get as many as you want when you want them ... but that certainly is not honest to say that's a 'shortage'.

When the demand exceeds the supply, that is a shortage. Not getting as many as you want when you want them is literally the definition of a shortage.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Gift of Battle reward track is 2 clovers per completion. It can be completed within 4 hours with boosters and daily potions, 8 hours without. Assume roughly 3.25 completions per week and in 3 months you have 78 clovers. During that time you would have also gotten 246 mystic coins from daily logins, completing Diamond skirmish chest each week, and daily Ley-Line. Those with WvW ranks can complete Diamond in 10 hours of gameplay or less, typically on reset night or the morning afterwards.

This does not include the 7 clovers per month for free from daily logins. So in 3 months anyone should have the requisite clovers for any generation legendary, and if you are going for later generations you should have the 250 required mystic coins for the gift (get the last 4 as you see fit). During those 3 months you have the time to do any precursor crafting that you may be required to do, less any time gated materials you start out with, or T6 fine material gatherings you may need, or other gifts required to craft any given legendary.

You can also get clovers from the Drizzlewood 'tracks' but they do not offer Mystic Coins, but do offer LOADS of T6 fine materials.

So anyone complaining about lack of clovers or coins are just playing the wrong modes/maps, not playing for long enough each day, or do not accept the fact that Legendaries are about 3 months of dedicated gameplay time (less time of course given starting wealth and materials).

The clover recipe is not the reason for any perceived inflation in the cost of Mystic Coins. It can be placed squarely on limitations in the systems via which player to player trading occurs: The TP, the mail system, and the guild bank. Fix those, and there will be less need for a few barons to use them as a source of currency in the gray market.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Cleopatra.4068 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The implication there is a 'shortage' of MC's is rather nonsensical. There CAN'T be a shortage of items you get for FREE over time. Maybe you don't get as many as you want when you want them ... but that certainly is not honest to say that's a 'shortage'.

When the demand exceeds the supply, that is a shortage. Not getting as many as you want when you want them is literally the definition of a shortage.

Is it? So if I want some private jets and yachts but can't afford them it means there is a global shortage on private jets and yachts?

[Cleopatra.4068]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Cleopatra.4068 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The implication there is a 'shortage' of MC's is rather nonsensical. There CAN'T be a shortage of items you get for FREE over time. Maybe you don't get as many as you want when you want them ... but that certainly is not honest to say that's a 'shortage'.

When the demand exceeds the supply, that is a shortage. Not getting as many as you want when you want them is literally the definition of a shortage.

Is it? So if I want some private jets and yachts but can't afford them it means there is a global shortage on private jets and yachts?

Yes, that is why they are so expensive. If people churned them out like they grew on trees, they would be cheap and everyone would have them.

In this scenario, however, it would be more accurate to ask what would happen to the prices if supply of the parts used to make the yachts and jets were artificially constrained by a monopoly. In this scenario, the supply of mystic coins is being artificially constrained by a monopoly on the supply, i.e. ArenaNet. This is what makes legendaries so expensive.

[Voltekka.2375]

Ah, yes, the bi-weekly MC topic. Good talk, each and every time.Edit: has it ever been easier to make a legendary?

[Astralporing.1957]

@WindBlade.8749 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@WindBlade.8749 said:Yea and now legendary are worthlessIf they were indeed worthless, people would not be pursuing them as much as they do. So, perhaps you are mistaken. Or you misunderstand where their worth lies.

You know i speak that they will be worthless in term of crafting price if you make mc price go to really cheap right ?We have some very different definitions of the word "worthless" then.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Voltekka.2375 said:Ah, yes, the bi-weekly MC topic. Good talk, each and every time.Edit: has it ever been easier to make a legendary?

It seems anything short of being handed legendaries for free is not good enough. It has to be multiple(all) otherwise the complaining would just move on to the first non-free one.

[Obtena.7952]

@Cleopatra.4068 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The implication there is a 'shortage' of MC's is rather nonsensical. There CAN'T be a shortage of items you get for FREE over time. Maybe you don't get as many as you want when you want them ... but that certainly is not honest to say that's a 'shortage'.

When the demand exceeds the supply, that is a shortage.

Not getting as many as you want when you want them is literally the definition of a shortage.

Neither of these things are the definition of shortage. MC are available, on the TP at market prices OR over time, for FREE if you need them. Even if those options don't fulfill your own self-defined criteria for reasonable access to MC's, that's certainly no reason to claim we have a shortage to justify the idea Anet needs to appease people with more access to MC's.

No 're-defining' of established language can hid the fact that every one of these MC threads is simply a complaint about the price of MC's in a fair market by people who aren't patient enough to collect them via login rewards or content that gives them as rewards.