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Condi Reaper.


iDevil.4572

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You're better off going Scourge or even Core condi. Which is ironic because technically speaking, condi Reaper outdpses both of them on a golem but relies too much on fields, which players can dodge out of, and even if they don't, they only get one stack of bleeding compared to the 3 in PvE. Scourge brings more utility and core can be difficult to put down if played right.

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@Methuselah.4376 Strange findings, I was just play testing that a earlier today. Condi reapers numbers vs golem are alot different vs players. when plays can dodge roll/ walk outta wells it makes things lackluster. It seems you have to work extra had to get the same results vs other condi classes. The concept of condi reaper seems nice on paper but thinking the nerfs are to hard on it. Seen some people running in wvw, but old utube videos. Saw a handfull in spvp but eh.

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Condition reaper is not viable in the competitive modes. The damage application mechanic is too weak:

You can basically only chose between

  • having competitive attack speed, but only rely on a few burns (onslaught + dhuumfire) or
  • having competitive damage in theory, but can't hit anything in shroud (deathly chill + dhuumfire)

Every now and then I craft a condi reaper build (trailblazer, dire, carrion) because I become bored, just to switch back to power reaper after a few frustrating encounters. It's too weak.

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Look at Deathly chill and Barbed Precision, in PvE and WvW/PvP. Two of the mains traits.You have the reason why Condi Reaper isn't really a thing.

You can play with some Condi Damage, condi traits, and boon corruption, etc, but you can't really ignore Power Damage on reaper, because it's just the easiest and effective way to play reaper.Otherwise; yes, "Hybrid" reaper can work. Actually Curses spec is stronger than people think ; with Fury/precision plus the boon corruption to punish the stab or quickness application and chain with a soul spiral.

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Condi Reaper suffers greatly from lack of consistent application.Their main Condi application is a Dhummfire Shroud auto, and burst Poison from Shroud 4 sometimes combined with Ice Field from Shroud 5. (Using Deathly Chill)Other than that, it's just weapons and utilities.

When a good majority of yur application is from melee, applying cleansable DoTs, have long cooldowns, it all leads to Condi Reaper not actually being very good in practice.

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Sadly early nerfs to reaper shroud in HoT made the build so weak in damage for future use. It is nothing but a gimmick. Your weapons barely do damage and your main burst is hydro/geo swaps with shroud entry. The only buff this build got is well of darkness buff. here is the history of relevant nerfs: -

Deathly ChillThis skill's PvP split has been extended to WvW and will now apply 1 stack of bleeding for 8 seconds upon chill application.

Executioner's Scythe:
Reduced the freezing field duration from 6 seconds to 4 seconds.

Soul Spiral:Reduced the number of whirl combos during the course of the skill from 11 to 6.Reduced number of whirl finishers on this skill from 6 to 4.Reduced poison duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds.

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@iDevil.4572 said:Thoughts? Trailblazer gear all round' wvw. Or in any case for that matter, Id think it wouldnt be as effective in spvp. Anyways, or would it not be viable with the deathly chill nerf?

I agree with others: Condi Reaper was nerfed. Potential chill duration was reduced years ago to scale back power-chill Reaper's ability to shut down opponents with perma-chill back in the day. The number of bleed stacks in PvP were also immediately reduced, which took a lot of dps from Reaper condi builds in PvP. Finally, the recent removal of damage from control effects, I think, also scaled back condi-Reaper because some key Reaper skills have control effects and the reduction affects condi-builds, too.

In all game modes, Reaper with a condition-damage build is really a hybrid power/comdi build. The specialization has no true full-condi build because so much of its damage still comes from power. Taking Deathly Chill and exchanging crit-damage for condition damage and expertise is not an equal trade right now. Condi-Reaper may not ever have been really good, to be honest. While the damage seemed equitable when HoT released, the special chill damage condition back then was bad in group PvE content and, when it was changed to create bleeds, it created new problems that required additional balancing.

Core and Scourge seem to do better with condi in PvP because they are not as inherently focused on melee damage like Reaper is. If you want to apply bleeds, scepter and either Death Shroud or Sand Shroud are more efficient.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It can be made passable, and I play one somtimes for giggles because nobody really expects it, and is sometimes good into very specific matchups, but generally yeah, power is universally superior, and by significant margins.

It leans too heavily on Dhuumfire + Onlaught for its baseline amount of damage, and DChill is just too weak with such low Chill access in RShroud to be even remotely competitive, so Scourge and core are just strictly better.

Until they make pretty major changes to DChill amongst other things, it'll mostly be a meme that can sometimes be fun to play, but is definitely on the weak side.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Condi core is vastly superior to condi reaper in wvw imho. I’ve done a lot of testing dueling in AB and some roaming and condi reaper is dead. The dps needs to be way higher to make the survivability trade off worthwhile. ANET destroyed the coolness of it when they removed chill damage, then freaked after they created the bleed monster, and I’m assuming they’re still suffering PTSD from that. It needs some love. Haha

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1 hour ago, cobracommander.5861 said:

 The dps needs to be way higher to make the survivability trade off worthwhile. ANET destroyed the coolness of it when they removed chill damage, then freaked after they created the bleed monster, and I’m assuming they’re still suffering PTSD from that. It needs some love. Haha

100% Correct.

I loved the condi reaper, especially chill damage. They bounced around between 1 stack and 3 stacks of bleed via deathly chill(I always wondered why the never just settled on 2) but anyway, I would be very surprised if it ever made a return to a competitive state. In fact I would be astonished if it did.

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On 4/2/2021 at 1:26 PM, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Look at Deathly chill and Barbed Precision, in PvE and WvW/PvP. Two of the mains traits.You have the reason why Condi Reaper isn't really a thing.

You can play with some Condi Damage, condi traits, and boon corruption, etc, but you can't really ignore Power Damage on reaper, because it's just the easiest and effective way to play reaper.Otherwise; yes, "Hybrid" reaper can work. Actually Curses spec is stronger than people think ; with Fury/precision plus the boon corruption to punish the stab or quickness application and chain with a soul spiral.

Hybrid power/condi reaper is frighteningly strong. Tossing in some vipers can give you quite a bit more DPS than straight power/crit will. Especially if you chill-splode in the middle of zerg-busting.

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1 hour ago, slave to the grind.5028 said:

Hybrid power/condi reaper is frighteningly strong.

Only if you are stupid and facetank shroud. The damage becomes a joke when you deal with a condi reaper like you should deal with any reaper: kite shroud!

 

The real potential of a reaper build you can only see, when it has to deal with a kiting encounter, because kiting shroud is what competent encounters do.

 

The only niche condi reaper build that has a few good matchups is spite curses condi shroudburst, but this build is so weak against soft cc, that it is not viable in the current state of the game.

 

Quote

Especially if you chill-splode in the middle of zerg-busting.

In zergs it's even weaker. Every condi you applay is cleansed immediately.

Edited by KrHome.1920
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1 hour ago, slave to the grind.5028 said:

Timing and opportunity dependant. If you know when to engage, you can wipe an entire blob with one spin.

Right ... so basically it's really awesome if you get lucky and it's completely suck if you don't. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

Like most everything.

Yes, but I think what is needed here is some qualification of what is 'strong' because the claim was that:

 

Hybrid power/condi reaper is frighteningly strong

 

... except that's only true in a a fraction of instances ... so arguably, that's not really all that impressive ... which is why Condi Reaper isn't really a thing. 

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 WvW is a team experience and a team game mode. You do not zerg bust solo. If I kill an entire blob, it is not because I am some kind of god either. It is because the mesmer or the thief teleported or stealthed me right into the middle of them and the first thing I did was AoE fear with increased fear duration, followed by spin faster than most zerg drones can react, which possibly explodes because mid-spin a lot of people are going to be below 50% HP.  About half a second later, I'm not the only one out of the portal or popping out of stealth, but I am the one who left them all at low HP and gave them a choice between "heal immediately" or "condi cleanse and evade". (If I'm popping out of stealth, I probably opened with an AoE freeze, which makes things even worse. You know, that thing no one uses because lichform is "super broken", but in scenarios like this is just that much better, followed by "Nothing can save you"...Then spin/fear.) The reason hybrid power/condi reaper is so "scary" in this constellation is because my fear lasts significantly longer, as does my chill and because my spin still does a lot of damage. It is because a wvw player's first reaction to pop out of reaper spin is to dodge and if you pop up in the middle of a zerg, those who cleanse their fear are all dodging in different directions, which essentially turns them from a zerg into easily eliminated single targets, while all their buddies are dead.

 

It is not because of the itty bitty bleed ticks the scenario may involve.

And it is most certainly not because of "luck". It is because I run with other players who have a solid grasp of group tactics.

It's also most certainly not infallible, which is why it's not the only strategy to break a zerg out there. It's just an example where hybrid viper or vigilent/zerker or crusader reaper is a good bit better than zerker or crusader reaper.

Edited by slave to the grind.5028
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On 5/4/2021 at 5:06 PM, Crazy.6029 said:

100% Correct.

I loved the condi reaper, especially chill damage. They bounced around between 1 stack and 3 stacks of bleed via deathly chill(I always wondered why the never just settled on 2) but anyway, I would be very surprised if it ever made a return to a competitive state. In fact I would be astonished if it did.

Because 1 was useless and 3 was overpowered. Since the natural numbers go 1,3,4,5.... what other amount of bleed would they have settled on 1 and 1/3rd stacks? That doesn't make sense.

 

On 4/1/2021 at 6:34 AM, iDevil.4572 said:

Thoughts? Trailblazer gear all round' wvw. Or in any case for that matter, Id think it wouldnt be as effective in spvp. Anyways, or would it not be viable with the deathly chill nerf?

It is somewhat viable but underwhelming, it "shouldn't" be played with deathly chill but with the overpowered quickness one instead and scepter+dagger/gs. One just needs to swap to grratsword only right before entering shroud to cast nightfall. 

 

Overall tho even when one optimizes and finds a good comp for it, it's kinda meh. Which is a shame.

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No need to be condescending. Are you saying that Arena Net is unable to change deathly chill to 2 stacks? Ok. Didn't know that. I was just thinking that if 1 didn't work and 3 didn't work, then why not try 2. Thank you for letting me know that Arena Net is unable to make deathly chill work at 2 stacks. Thank you.

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