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The Future of Ascalon


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Just kind of an idea I had for what might be happening to Ascalon either in the future of GW2 or some other project. With the Charr and Humans starting to work closer together and the Charr wanting to move past the treaty with actions. I was thinking that a future story beat that could be really interesting for living story could be the Foefire. According to the legend " if either Sohothin or Magdaer returned to the haunted remains of Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon, the curse of the Foefire would be lifted, and the ghosts would finally be laid to rest." so only the humans would be able to end the curse for the Charr.

This action could be the thing that creates a true lasting peace between the two races, and also have some nice symbolism of finally putting the ghosts to rest to truly put the Ascalon War behind them. I was thinking that they could negotiate something where the humans would help end the curse and in exchange the charr would concede all parts of Ascalon to the right of the brand since it already cuts the nation in half pretty nicely. I also think that unless the charr are willing to let the humans have some of ascalon back it will be hard for humanity to ever fully get over the ascalon war. They could also build a new wall on the brand that connects to part of the original wall as well.

I made a simple map showing how this might look and I included regions for all the legions just to give a good idea of how big these territories are.

4JwCA0I.png

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by gods no, leave as it is, a no mans land filled with ghosts, and preferable, new elder dragon corrupt it.

by the way i liked very much your map ideas, explore other charrs legions citadels and a big east area devolpment.

unfortunately a oportunity to it seems lost with halved icebrood saga... a primordus atack would be a good pretexto to explore more these east areas; since entire saga is nearly focused on jormag, this will would be the "primodus half of the saga'.

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Why should the Charr give part of Ascalon to the humans, when it was Charr territory to begin with?The humans stole the lands from the Charr, not the other way aroundThe Charr just recovered what is rightfully theirs.

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@Fueki.4753 said:Why should the Charr give part of Ascalon to the humans, when it was Charr territory to begin with?The humans stole the lands from the Charr, not the other way aroundThe Charr just recovered what is rightfully theirs.

Every war in history ends in either genocide, occupation, or compromise. The two races dont want to war anymore and the first two would only lead to more warring. As things are right now the charr can never enjoy or fully use the land till humanity helps them out, so it's a good opportunity for them to make a compromise.

Also keep in mind those were charr lands over a1000 years ago. Humanity lived there for generations so their connection to the land is still extremely significant. The humans who were born in ascalon arent at fault for the actions of their anchient ancestors. It was the only home they ever knew.

Ascalon was actually originally grawl land but the charr pushed them out even further back.

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First off, Blood Keep is NOT Blood Citadel. ANet firmly confirmed that we've only seen three charr citadels (Black/Iron, Flame, and Frost). Blood Citadel is to the east of the Blazeridge.

Secondly, you put half of the "new kingdom of Ascalon" firmly into the Blazeridge which is hostile Ogre territory. The charr and humans have no say in those two eastern blue boxes. Same with two of the Ash and new Flame boxes - those are firmly Ogre territories, and overcrowded Ogre territory at that.

Lastly, I feel that the Ebonhawke DRM was ArenaNet firmly closing the lid on all Ascalon-related plots.We get the last Separatists to work with charr (somehow)! We hear Crecia has been wiping out the last of the Renegades (despite their lack of appearance in IBS despite several mentions of them) and Dominion! Humans and charr are holding hands and are friends now, kumbaya!

Pardon while I vomit rainbows.

@"Fueki.4753" said:Why should the Charr give part of Ascalon to the humans, when it was Charr territory to begin with?The humans stole the lands from the Charr, not the other way aroundThe Charr just recovered what is rightfully theirs.

The charr took Ascalon from grawl, dwarves, and Forgotten. Held it for only a couple decades. The humans took Ascalon from charr, and held onto it for a millennia.

If holding onto it for a decade or two has stronger ties than holding onto it for a millennia because the decade came first, then the land rightfully belongs to the grawl, who held it for an unclear amount of time before the charr.

It was NOT "charr territory to begin with".

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:First off, Blood Keep is NOT Blood Citadel. ANet firmly confirmed that we've only seen three charr citadels (Black/Iron, Flame, and Frost). Blood Citadel is to the east of the Blazeridge.

Secondly, you put half of the "new kingdom of Ascalon" firmly into the Blazeridge which is hostile Ogre territory. The charr and humans have no say in those two eastern blue boxes. Same with two of the Ash and new Flame boxes - those are firmly Ogre territories, and overcrowded Ogre territory at that.

Lastly, I feel that the Ebonhawke DRM was ArenaNet firmly closing the lid on all Ascalon-related plots.We get the last Separatists to work with charr (somehow)! We hear Crecia has been wiping out the last of the Renegades (despite their lack of appearance in IBS despite several mentions of them) and Dominion! Humans and charr are holding hands and are friends now, kumbaya!

Pardon while I vomit rainbows.

@"Fueki.4753" said:Why should the Charr give part of Ascalon to the humans, when it was Charr territory to begin with?The humans stole the lands from the Charr, not the other way aroundThe Charr just recovered what is rightfully theirs.

The charr took Ascalon from grawl, dwarves, and Forgotten. Held it for only a couple decades. The humans took Ascalon from charr, and held onto it for a millennia.

If holding onto it for a decade or two has stronger ties than holding onto it for a millennia because the decade came first, then the land rightfully belongs to the grawl, who held it for an unclear amount of time before the charr.

It was
NOT
"charr territory to begin with".

Oh I didn't realize that wasnt even the blood citadel in grothmar. Updated it now :P

It put the lid on the charr/human conflict but it didnt touch on the foefire so now its finally open to be explored.

I know there are ogres there. I figure the ogres would just be along the east and south on the fringe of the human lands since in the event chain we kind of wipe out the south east ogers in field of ruin. Any location we put anyone always ends up having some lesser races in it. Centaur all over kyrta, hylek all over tarnished coast, harpies and grawl all over ascalon, skritt all over, etc. They dont need to all be hostile, or unified, or so big that they cant have villages and smaller territories inside a human territory.

You know in bitterfrost we meant some friendly grawl, and then there are the grawl refugee's in LA, and all the ones all over fireheart. Maybe the old Flame Citadel and surrounding region will end up a homeland for the grawl.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Lastly, I feel that the Ebonhawke DRM was ArenaNet firmly closing the lid on all Ascalon-related plots.We get the last Separatists to work with charr (somehow)! We hear Crecia has been wiping out the last of the Renegades (despite their lack of appearance in IBS despite several mentions of them) and Dominion! Humans and charr are holding hands and are friends now, kumbaya!

I'm not sure why, but I thought the Renegades were folded into the Dominion?

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@TeeracK.3601 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:First off, Blood Keep is
NOT
Blood Citadel. ANet firmly confirmed that we've only seen three charr citadels (Black/Iron, Flame, and Frost). Blood Citadel is to the east of the Blazeridge.

Secondly, you put half of the "new kingdom of Ascalon" firmly into the Blazeridge which is hostile Ogre territory. The charr and humans have no say in those two eastern blue boxes. Same with two of the Ash and new Flame boxes - those are firmly Ogre territories, and overcrowded Ogre territory at that.

Lastly, I feel that the Ebonhawke DRM was ArenaNet firmly closing the lid on all Ascalon-related plots.We get the last Separatists to work with charr (somehow)! We hear Crecia has been wiping out the last of the Renegades (despite their lack of appearance in IBS despite several mentions of them) and Dominion! Humans and charr are holding hands and are friends now, kumbaya!

Pardon while I vomit rainbows.

@"Fueki.4753" said:Why should the Charr give part of Ascalon to the humans, when it was Charr territory to begin with?The humans stole the lands from the Charr, not the other way aroundThe Charr just recovered what is rightfully theirs.

The charr took Ascalon from grawl, dwarves, and Forgotten. Held it for only a couple decades. The humans took Ascalon from charr, and held onto it for a millennia.

If holding onto it for a decade or two has stronger ties than holding onto it for a millennia because the decade came first, then the land rightfully belongs to the grawl, who held it for an unclear amount of time before the charr.

It was
NOT
"charr territory to begin with".

Oh I didn't realize that wasnt even the blood citadel in grothmar. Updated it now :P

It put the lid on the charr/human conflict but it didnt touch on the foefire so now its finally open to be explored.

I know there are ogres there. I figure the ogres would just be along the east and south on the fringe of the human lands since in the event chain we kind of wipe out the south east ogers in field of ruin. Any location we put anyone always ends up having some lesser races in it. Centaur all over kyrta, hylek all over tarnished coast, harpies and grawl all over ascalon, skritt all over, etc. They dont need to all be hostile, or unified, or so big that they cant have villages and smaller territories inside a human territory.

You know in bitterfrost we meant some friendly grawl, and then there are the grawl refugee's in LA, and all the ones all over fireheart. Maybe the old Flame Citadel and surrounding region will end up a homeland for the grawl.

Problem is that at least half of the orge and grawl tribes have zero interest in sharing with anyone, including other tribes of their respective species. While a nice idea, it's not logistically possible for Ebonhawke to get much more than part of the Fields of Ruin, and maybe some of what's north of that, if the Charr were somehow feeling really generous.

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@"The Greyhawk.9107" said:

Problem is that at least half of the orge and grawl tribes have zero interest in sharing with anyone, including other tribes of their respective species. While a nice idea, it's not logistically possible for Ebonhawke to get much more than part of the Fields of Ruin, and maybe some of what's north of that, if the Charr were somehow feeling really generous.

Huh? Have a little creativity! Because your reasoning literally describing the mobs in every zone in the game "I guess we can't live here cause there are some hostile people are around!" Humanity better move out of Kryta!(centaur) Norn better move out of southern shiverpeaks!(dredge) Sylvari better move out of the tarnished coast!(hylek) :tongue: Your logic would basically mean none of the playable races should live on tyria and there would be no world conflict.

Reasonable conflict is the foundation to any interesting fantasy world. A big part of what made the centaur interesting was you really felt like humanity was in the wrong with how things went down. It's also kind of a non point since we know zero about east of ascalon. We know some ogres came from the region and maybe its where the volcanic fractal takes place, but that's it. We don't know how many ogres are in the region and one of the tribes we did meet in ascalon wasn't even hostile. Honestly based on PoF there is more reason to believe most ogres are from south east of ascalon, They also trade and lived peacefully with the humans and charr in the region, but again that's just a non point guess since the dev's have given us nothing on this part of the world on purpose. So trying to say its not logical for Ebonhawke to expand to the east is baseless.

And this wouldn't even be a matter of being generous it be a matter of mutual benefiting each other.

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@"TeeracK.3601" said:Just kind of an idea I had for what might be happening to Ascalon either in the future of GW2 or some other project. With the Charr and Humans starting to work closer together and the Charr wanting to move past the treaty with actions. I was thinking that a future story beat that could be really interesting for living story could be the Foefire. According to the legend " if either Sohothin or Magdaer returned to the haunted remains of Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon, the curse of the Foefire would be lifted, and the ghosts would finally be laid to rest." so only the humans would be able to end the curse for the Charr.

The problem with this is that the curse specifically states it must be lifted by the current king of Ascalon from King Doric's lineage and as far as we know, King Doric's Ascalonian line has been ended.

King Adelbern only had one son Prince Rurik and Rurik was killed before he could produce an hair with his wife who was captured and sacrificed by the Charr after the Searing.If they had produced a child it is severely unlikely it would have gone unnoticed back in Gw1 as Rurik was a major character in the early part of the prophecies storyline.With the whole Charr invasion going on and the orphan kids and people regularly being captured by Charr.. plus the fact that Rurik's wife was an active soldier for the Ascalon forces as well during the war it would be a very hard sell to write in that they had a kid and then kept it secret.Rurik would never have left the kingdom without his kid either when he lead the Ascalonian settlers over the Shiverpeaks where he was killed in action.As far as we know too Adelbern never had any b** children either and if he did they were probably wiped out in the foefire anyway.

It's almost a certainty that Adelberns line no longer exists at this point which would make the only rightful Heirs of the Ascalonian monarch fall on Duke Barradin's side.Duke Barradin's line however as far as we now is also dead.. he only had a daughter Lady Althea who was Prince Rurik's wife whom I mentioned above was captured and sacrificed by the Charr before an heir could be produced.

Unless there is some unmentioned relative or sibling that was never written in to Gw1 then as far as we know the Ascalonian royal family simply doesn't exist anymore.. and if the curse does specifically require a current King.. or Queen of Ascalon then that's unlikely to happen as well since those lands now belong to the Charr and are recognised as Charr lands even by the only living Human Monarch and as far as we know the only living distant relative of the Ascalonian Royal family.I highly doubt the Charr would ever allow a Human to hold the title of King or Queen over their lands, even if it's just a formality necessary for the occasion.. it could end up legitimising and emboldening radical factions like the Separatists who would see it as undeniable proof that Ascalon is Human territory under enemy occupation.

Queen Jennah being as far as we know the only living descendant of King Doric's line is potentially the only living human who might be able to break the curse.. but she is from the Krytan line not an Ascalonian one and I don't know if she even has a legitimate claim over the lands of both Ascalon and Orr nor if she could in theory break the curse of the Foefire even if she did hold the title of Queen of Ascalon and possessed both the Crown and Magdaer the latter of which last we heard was being repaired by a Norn Smith way back during the campaign against Zhaitan.Rytlock was the last one in possession of the Crown as well but it's fate has not been disclosed either as the last time we saw the crown Rytlock jumped into the mists with it.. for all we know it was lost or destroyed there, Rytlock has not mentioned the crown since that event.

There is also the question of the Krytan Royal locket as well which always displays the true heir to the throne within it.This object was teased back in Living world 2 but we never got to see the image inside the locket.There's been some debate about the the existence of this item and why it was added to the game.. some people theorise that Queen Jennah isn't actually a legitimate blood heir to the throne and if this is indeed true then it would mean that she is not a descendant of King Doric and that she would never be able to break the curse on Ascalon either.That would actually be a very interesting story to unfold should Queen Jennah ever attempt to break the curse on Ascalon.. if she fails to break it, oh boy would that cause a political Sh**show back in Kryta lolHer entire claim to the throne would be called into question by both legitimate people wanting the truth and malevolent opportunistic factions vying for power.

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If not expanding towards the Blazeridge mountains, how about south? The brand has been cured by Aurene (she doesn't go around purifying it anymore, so it's logical to assume the bigger parts of it don't exist) and the gate connecting the desert to ascalong could be opened. So ascalon can at last retunr to trade relations with Amnoon and all the Elonian factions. Speaking of which, I expect Elona still in the need of help to rebuild everything after the big trio ruined everything (Kralk/Balth/Joko).

But yeah that's all in the realm of speculation and fanboying.

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@TeeracK.3601 said:

@"The Greyhawk.9107" said:

Problem is that at least half of the orge and grawl tribes have zero interest in sharing with anyone, including other tribes of their respective species. While a nice idea, it's not logistically possible for Ebonhawke to get much more than
part
of the Fields of Ruin, and
maybe
some of what's north of that, if the Charr were somehow feeling really generous.

Huh? Have a little creativity! Because your reasoning literally describing the mobs in every zone in the game "I guess we can't live here cause there are some hostile people are around!" Humanity better move out of Kryta!(centaur) Norn better move out of southern shiverpeaks!(dredge) Sylvari better move out of the tarnished coast!(hylek) :tongue: Your logic would basically mean none of the playable races should live on tyria and there would be no world conflict.

Reasonable conflict is the foundation to any interesting fantasy world. A big part of what made the centaur interesting was you really felt like humanity was in the wrong with how things went down. It's also kind of a non point since we know zero about east of ascalon. We know some ogres came from the region and maybe its where the volcanic fractal takes place, but that's it. We don't know how many ogres are in the region and one of the tribes we did meet in ascalon wasn't even hostile. Honestly based on PoF there is more reason to believe most ogres are from south east of ascalon, They also trade and lived peacefully with the humans and charr in the region, but again that's just a non point guess since the dev's have given us nothing on this part of the world on purpose. So trying to say its not logical for Ebonhawke to expand to the east is baseless.

And this wouldn't even be a matter of being generous it be a matter of mutual benefiting each other.

That's not what I said at all and you damn well know it.

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The only map I could see them adding to Ascalon at this point would be a map just to the east of the Iron Marches, that partially covers the Blazeridge mountains, and the western part of includes Drascir, as part of some story where we get like Wade Samulsson to come with this and perform the Foefire cleansing ritual at Drascir to clean up the ghosts once and for all.

@Teratus.2859 said:It's almost a certainty that Adelberns line no longer exists at this point which would make the only rightful Heirs of the Ascalonian monarch fall on Duke Barradin's side.Duke Barradin's line however as far as we now is also dead.. he only had a daughter Lady Althea who was Prince Rurik's wife whom I mentioned above was captured and sacrificed by the Charr before an heir could be produced.Wade Samulsson is stated to be directly related to the Kings of Ascalon, and is the Duke of Ebonhawke.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Lastly, I feel that the Ebonhawke DRM was ArenaNet firmly closing the lid on all Ascalon-related plots.We get the last Separatists to work with charr (somehow)! We hear Crecia has been wiping out the last of the Renegades (despite their lack of appearance in IBS despite several mentions of them) and Dominion! Humans and charr are holding hands and are friends now, kumbaya!A. It wasn't "somehow", it was a full scale direct invasion of Ebonhawke by destroyers, and we told them "look, you can keep your head in the sand, and let Ebonhawke fall, or stop being stupid and save the city". Not to mention, with Caudecus's death several years ago the major source of funding for the whole Separatist movement(which was never particularly large to begin with) got cut out from under them, and they would have begun to collapse in the interim. And the many instances of Charr/humans work together, as well as the fact the Charr were there right now doing more to protect their city then they were, would have made such ideals look even less sustainable.B. We wouldn't have seen any Renegades since the Renegades were already on the way out back in vanilla, and the ones that joined up with Bangar would have just been labeled Dominion forces, since everyone who defected to Bangar became Dominion.C. We never see Dominion solders holding hands with humans and the other Charr. The only Charr in the Ebonhawke DRM are United Legions Charr.

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I offer some sagely wisdom: Lore... is subjective!

The archivist who gathers together every little scrap and treats it as though it's an objective truth would be a poor historian. It's the equivalent of believing what certain poor curriculums teach of the Roman empire at school. It'd be like reading the 1776 report and believing everything within. There's so much subjectivity—without a truly infallible system of recording data in times immemorial, none of it can be trusted as accurate in any meaningful way. It's all a big maybe, subjective perspectives, burdened with bias, laden with lies. For one to be a good historian, one must be exceptionally talented at cross-referencing, trying to find titbits of truth hidden within veiled fabrications and spurious propaganda.

WIth the number of people writing a video game? It's Who's Line is it Anyway? It's Improve Night at the local pub. New creative leads have new ideas, new directions to take the world in. What used to be relevant may still, or it may not, it all depends on their whims. None of it, however, is fact. So to cling to bits of lore written almost a decade ago (if not more than, in some cases) is ridiculous.

We can all be passionate about what we think happened and when, but in truth the only lore that matters is that which we're experiencing right now. That lore is that this silliness is over. There's no more charr/human war, or cold war, or anything. The renegades were folded into the Dominion and they fell. The separatists were forced to see the value of the treaty (thanks Cre!). The charr are under new, better, less warlike leadership. I mean, it's obvious that the majority never cared for that background for either the charr or humanity. It just lead to bad actors causing unnecessary strife.

Lore is subjective. The past is a guessing game. What matters is what's happening now. And what's happening now is that the war's over and that modern charr and modern humans alike don't really give a damn about it. They'd rather focus on other issues.

All that's left is sitting with a big bucket of popcorn and watching as those who hate the charr orr the charr/human peace get owned by ArenaNet's current creative direction. I'm sorry, but this has gone on long enough, all of the "Make Ascalon Great Again" rot is so very tired. How many times are you going to hire necromancers to raise that horse from the dead just so you can beat it to death again? The past is past.

And if you're really set on obsessing over what was? All I can say is... OK Boomer.

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@Teratus.2859 said:

@"TeeracK.3601" said:Just kind of an idea I had for what might be happening to Ascalon either in the future of GW2 or some other project. With the Charr and Humans starting to work closer together and the Charr wanting to move past the treaty with actions. I was thinking that a future story beat that could be really interesting for living story could be the Foefire. According to the legend " if either Sohothin or Magdaer returned to the haunted remains of Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon, the curse of the Foefire would be lifted, and the ghosts would finally be laid to rest." so only the humans would be able to end the curse for the Charr.

The problem with this is that the curse specifically states it must be lifted by the current king of Ascalon from King Doric's lineage and as far as we know, King Doric's Ascalonian line has been ended.

King Adelbern only had one son Prince Rurik and Rurik was killed before he could produce an hair with his wife who was captured and sacrificed by the Charr after the Searing.If they had produced a child it is severely unlikely it would have gone unnoticed back in Gw1 as Rurik was a major character in the early part of the prophecies storyline.With the whole Charr invasion going on and the orphan kids and people regularly being captured by Charr.. plus the fact that Rurik's wife was an active soldier for the Ascalon forces as well during the war it would be a very hard sell to write in that they had a kid and then kept it secret.Rurik would never have left the kingdom without his kid either when he lead the Ascalonian settlers over the Shiverpeaks where he was killed in action.As far as we know too Adelbern never had any b
**
children either and if he did they were probably wiped out in the foefire anyway.

It's almost a certainty that Adelberns line no longer exists at this point which would make the only rightful Heirs of the Ascalonian monarch fall on Duke Barradin's side.Duke Barradin's line however as far as we now is also dead.. he only had a daughter Lady Althea who was Prince Rurik's wife whom I mentioned above was captured and sacrificed by the Charr before an heir could be produced.

Unless there is some unmentioned relative or sibling that was never written in to Gw1 then as far as we know the Ascalonian royal family simply doesn't exist anymore.. and if the curse does specifically require a current King.. or Queen of Ascalon then that's unlikely to happen as well since those lands now belong to the Charr and are recognised as Charr lands even by the only living Human Monarch and as far as we know the only living distant relative of the Ascalonian Royal family.I highly doubt the Charr would ever allow a Human to hold the title of King or Queen over their lands, even if it's just a formality necessary for the occasion.. it could end up legitimising and emboldening radical factions like the Separatists who would see it as undeniable proof that Ascalon is Human territory under enemy occupation.

Queen Jennah being as far as we know the only living descendant of King Doric's line is potentially the only living human who might be able to break the curse.. but she is from the Krytan line not an Ascalonian one and I don't know if she even has a legitimate claim over the lands of both Ascalon and Orr nor if she could in theory break the curse of the Foefire even if she did hold the title of Queen of Ascalon and possessed both the Crown and Magdaer the latter of which last we heard was being repaired by a Norn Smith way back during the campaign against Zhaitan.Rytlock was the last one in possession of the Crown as well but it's fate has not been disclosed either as the last time we saw the crown Rytlock jumped into the mists with it.. for all we know it was lost or destroyed there, Rytlock has not mentioned the crown since that event.

There is also the question of the Krytan Royal locket as well which always displays the true heir to the throne within it.This object was teased back in Living world 2 but we never got to see the image inside the locket.There's been some debate about the the existence of this item and why it was added to the game.. some people theorise that Queen Jennah isn't actually a legitimate blood heir to the throne and if this is indeed true then it would mean that she is not a descendant of King Doric and that she would never be able to break the curse on Ascalon either.That would actually be a very interesting story to unfold should Queen Jennah ever attempt to break the curse on Ascalon.. if she fails to break it, oh boy would that cause a political Sh**show back in Kryta lolHer entire claim to the throne would be called into question by both legitimate people wanting the truth and malevolent opportunistic factions vying for power.

Duke Baradin was still alive at the end of gw1 and he was the rightful king. If he ended up having any more kids before he died then the rightful heir could still exist easily. Dev's leave things unanswered like this not by mistake. Just considering how human nobility works. If Ebonhawke was founded by Gwen. A nobody, a commoner. Then it would make complete sense to have her child marry someone who was noble or better a royal, so it wouldnt even be shocking if in Logan's family line has some descendant of Duke Baradin mixed into it. Don't forget there is 3-4 generations between Logan and Gwen. Military leaders marring into nobility is very common in history.

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I find it hilarious that you of all people would talk about "everything being subjective" after over a year of demanding that people accept your increasingly bizarre head-canon as gospel truth and then castigating any one who didn't as a bigot and a moron.

There is a term for this thing you've described where people pop onto a a position at a franchise and play 'Whose Line' as you rather aptly put it: its called Bad Writing . If a writer can come into a franchise other people have worked on and completely ignore the previous work by going in whichever direction they want regardless of things like Cause and Effect and the expectations of the players/readers/audience, to make only "whats happening now" of any importance....then why should any of us bother with any of it? Its just going to be obsolete when the next bad writer comes in, so why waste time and money? Hell, if Lore is so subjective, why even bother discussing it in this SubForum? Nothing we say here will matter, nothing will in the long run remain canon. Should just abandon this Forum all together. That said, its hardly surprising you think this way; denying the relevance of the past on the present and the future, even rejecting causality itself, seems to be a foundational principle of people with ideologies not unlike or identical to your own. Some people do indeed live too much in the past, but at least as many don't live in it enough.

And yes, please keep bringing up that strawman where there are somehow still tons of people bitching about the Charr and Ascalon and such. News flash: most of us, including GW1 vets, don't really care anymore. We haven't really cared in YEARS.

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@TeeracK.3601 said:

@TeeracK.3601 said:Just kind of an idea I had for what might be happening to Ascalon either in the future of GW2 or some other project. With the Charr and Humans starting to work closer together and the Charr wanting to move past the treaty with actions. I was thinking that a future story beat that could be really interesting for living story could be the Foefire. According to the legend " if either Sohothin or Magdaer returned to the haunted remains of Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon, the curse of the Foefire would be lifted, and the ghosts would finally be laid to rest." so only the humans would be able to end the curse for the Charr.

The problem with this is that the curse specifically states it must be lifted by the current king of Ascalon from King Doric's lineage and as far as we know, King Doric's Ascalonian line has been ended.

King Adelbern only had one son Prince Rurik and Rurik was killed before he could produce an hair with his wife who was captured and sacrificed by the Charr after the Searing.If they had produced a child it is severely unlikely it would have gone unnoticed back in Gw1 as Rurik was a major character in the early part of the prophecies storyline.With the whole Charr invasion going on and the orphan kids and people regularly being captured by Charr.. plus the fact that Rurik's wife was an active soldier for the Ascalon forces as well during the war it would be a very hard sell to write in that they had a kid and then kept it secret.Rurik would never have left the kingdom without his kid either when he lead the Ascalonian settlers over the Shiverpeaks where he was killed in action.As far as we know too Adelbern never had any b
**
children either and if he did they were probably wiped out in the foefire anyway.

It's almost a certainty that Adelberns line no longer exists at this point which would make the only rightful Heirs of the Ascalonian monarch fall on Duke Barradin's side.Duke Barradin's line however as far as we now is also dead.. he only had a daughter Lady Althea who was Prince Rurik's wife whom I mentioned above was captured and sacrificed by the Charr before an heir could be produced.

Unless there is some unmentioned relative or sibling that was never written in to Gw1 then as far as we know the Ascalonian royal family simply doesn't exist anymore.. and if the curse does specifically require a current King.. or Queen of Ascalon then that's unlikely to happen as well since those lands now belong to the Charr and are recognised as Charr lands even by the only living Human Monarch and as far as we know the only living distant relative of the Ascalonian Royal family.I highly doubt the Charr would ever allow a Human to hold the title of King or Queen over their lands, even if it's just a formality necessary for the occasion.. it could end up legitimising and emboldening radical factions like the Separatists who would see it as undeniable proof that Ascalon is Human territory under enemy occupation.

Queen Jennah being as far as we know the only living descendant of King Doric's line is potentially the only living human who might be able to break the curse.. but she is from the Krytan line not an Ascalonian one and I don't know if she even has a legitimate claim over the lands of both Ascalon and Orr nor if she could in theory break the curse of the Foefire even if she did hold the title of Queen of Ascalon and possessed both the Crown and Magdaer the latter of which last we heard was being repaired by a Norn Smith way back during the campaign against Zhaitan.Rytlock was the last one in possession of the Crown as well but it's fate has not been disclosed either as the last time we saw the crown Rytlock jumped into the mists with it.. for all we know it was lost or destroyed there, Rytlock has not mentioned the crown since that event.

There is also the question of the Krytan Royal locket as well which always displays the true heir to the throne within it.This object was teased back in Living world 2 but we never got to see the image inside the locket.There's been some debate about the the existence of this item and why it was added to the game.. some people theorise that Queen Jennah isn't actually a legitimate blood heir to the throne and if this is indeed true then it would mean that she is not a descendant of King Doric and that she would never be able to break the curse on Ascalon either.That would actually be a very interesting story to unfold should Queen Jennah ever attempt to break the curse on Ascalon.. if she fails to break it, oh boy would that cause a political Sh**show back in Kryta lolHer entire claim to the throne would be called into question by both legitimate people wanting the truth and malevolent opportunistic factions vying for power.

Duke Baradin was still alive at the end of gw1 and he was the rightful king. If he ended up having any more kids before he died then the rightful heir could still exist easily. Dev's leave things unanswered like this not by mistake. Just considering how human nobility works. If Ebonhawke was founded by Gwen. A nobody, a commoner. Then it would make complete sense to have her child marry someone who was noble or better a royal, so it wouldnt even be shocking if in Logan's family line has some descendant of Duke Baradin mixed into it. Don't forget there is 3-4 generations between Logan and Gwen. Military leaders marring into nobility is very common in history.

Adelbern was alive at the end of Gw1 as well.I think you've mixed your time of events though, the end of Gw1 was before the Charr overrun Ascalon resulting in Adelbern triggering the Foefire.Both Adelbern and Duke Barradin were killed in this event as the foefire consumed everything in an inferno of white fire.Pretty much every living thing in almost the entire region of Ascalon was wiped out leaving Ebonhawke the last existing Human settlement in the region, and it was nothing like it is in Gw2 back then either.. not a city with civilians but more of a military fortress run by the Ebon Vanguard.

As far as we know there were no human survivors of the foefire in Ascalon.. there's no record of refugees fleeing to Ebonhawke as far as I'm aware and by the time Adelbern had decided to trigger the Foefire Ascalon city was complely under seige by overwhelming numbers of Charr.. there was no hope of escape at that point.. they were all doomed.If Adelbern or Duke Barradin had any other children in their later years.. be they legitimate or b**s then it's more than likely they died in the Foefire.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Wade Samulsson is stated to be directly related to the Kings of Ascalon, and is the Duke of Ebonhawke.

Wade Samuelsson is the only human in Ebonhawke who claims to be a living descendant of the Ascalonian royal family, but this claim is heavily disputed and there is no evidence what so ever that links him directly or distantly to the royal bloodline.If his claim is true though then he would in theory be able to end the Foefire curse.. but he has nothing to prove his claim, and the political matters I mentioned before involving the Charr are also applicable with any claim Wade would make to call himself a King of Ascalon.

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@Teratus.2859 said:

@TeeracK.3601 said:Just kind of an idea I had for what might be happening to Ascalon either in the future of GW2 or some other project. With the Charr and Humans starting to work closer together and the Charr wanting to move past the treaty with actions. I was thinking that a future story beat that could be really interesting for living story could be the Foefire. According to the legend " if either Sohothin or Magdaer returned to the haunted remains of Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon, the curse of the Foefire would be lifted, and the ghosts would finally be laid to rest." so only the humans would be able to end the curse for the Charr.

The problem with this is that the curse specifically states it must be lifted by the current king of Ascalon from King Doric's lineage and as far as we know, King Doric's Ascalonian line has been ended.

King Adelbern only had one son Prince Rurik and Rurik was killed before he could produce an hair with his wife who was captured and sacrificed by the Charr after the Searing.If they had produced a child it is severely unlikely it would have gone unnoticed back in Gw1 as Rurik was a major character in the early part of the prophecies storyline.With the whole Charr invasion going on and the orphan kids and people regularly being captured by Charr.. plus the fact that Rurik's wife was an active soldier for the Ascalon forces as well during the war it would be a very hard sell to write in that they had a kid and then kept it secret.Rurik would never have left the kingdom without his kid either when he lead the Ascalonian settlers over the Shiverpeaks where he was killed in action.As far as we know too Adelbern never had any b
**
children either and if he did they were probably wiped out in the foefire anyway.

It's almost a certainty that Adelberns line no longer exists at this point which would make the only rightful Heirs of the Ascalonian monarch fall on Duke Barradin's side.Duke Barradin's line however as far as we now is also dead.. he only had a daughter Lady Althea who was Prince Rurik's wife whom I mentioned above was captured and sacrificed by the Charr before an heir could be produced.

Unless there is some unmentioned relative or sibling that was never written in to Gw1 then as far as we know the Ascalonian royal family simply doesn't exist anymore.. and if the curse does specifically require a current King.. or Queen of Ascalon then that's unlikely to happen as well since those lands now belong to the Charr and are recognised as Charr lands even by the only living Human Monarch and as far as we know the only living distant relative of the Ascalonian Royal family.I highly doubt the Charr would ever allow a Human to hold the title of King or Queen over their lands, even if it's just a formality necessary for the occasion.. it could end up legitimising and emboldening radical factions like the Separatists who would see it as undeniable proof that Ascalon is Human territory under enemy occupation.

Queen Jennah being as far as we know the only living descendant of King Doric's line is potentially the only living human who might be able to break the curse.. but she is from the Krytan line not an Ascalonian one and I don't know if she even has a legitimate claim over the lands of both Ascalon and Orr nor if she could in theory break the curse of the Foefire even if she did hold the title of Queen of Ascalon and possessed both the Crown and Magdaer the latter of which last we heard was being repaired by a Norn Smith way back during the campaign against Zhaitan.Rytlock was the last one in possession of the Crown as well but it's fate has not been disclosed either as the last time we saw the crown Rytlock jumped into the mists with it.. for all we know it was lost or destroyed there, Rytlock has not mentioned the crown since that event.

There is also the question of the Krytan Royal locket as well which always displays the true heir to the throne within it.This object was teased back in Living world 2 but we never got to see the image inside the locket.There's been some debate about the the existence of this item and why it was added to the game.. some people theorise that Queen Jennah isn't actually a legitimate blood heir to the throne and if this is indeed true then it would mean that she is not a descendant of King Doric and that she would never be able to break the curse on Ascalon either.That would actually be a very interesting story to unfold should Queen Jennah ever attempt to break the curse on Ascalon.. if she fails to break it, oh boy would that cause a political Sh**show back in Kryta lolHer entire claim to the throne would be called into question by both legitimate people wanting the truth and malevolent opportunistic factions vying for power.

Duke Baradin was still alive at the end of gw1 and he was the rightful king. If he ended up having any more kids before he died then the rightful heir could still exist easily. Dev's leave things unanswered like this not by mistake. Just considering how human nobility works. If Ebonhawke was founded by Gwen. A nobody, a commoner. Then it would make complete sense to have her child marry someone who was noble or better a royal, so it wouldnt even be shocking if in Logan's family line has some descendant of Duke Baradin mixed into it. Don't forget there is 3-4 generations between Logan and Gwen. Military leaders marring into nobility is very common in history.

Adelbern was alive at the end of Gw1 as well.I think you've mixed your time of events though, the end of Gw1 was before the Charr overrun Ascalon resulting in Adelbern triggering the Foefire.Both Adelbern and Duke Barradin were killed in this event as the foefire consumed everything in an inferno of white fire.Pretty much every living thing in almost the entire region of Ascalon was wiped out leaving Ebonhawke the last existing Human settlement in the region, and it was nothing like it is in Gw2 back then either.. not a city with civilians but more of a military fortress run by the Ebon Vanguard.

As far as we know there were no human survivors of the foefire in Ascalon.. there's no record of refugees fleeing to Ebonhawke as far as I'm aware and by the time Adelbern had decided to trigger the Foefire Ascalon city was complely under seige by overwhelming numbers of Charr.. there was no hope of escape at that point.. they were all doomed.If Adelbern or Duke Barradin had any other children in their later years.. be they legitimate or b
**
s then it's more than likely they died in the Foefire.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Wade Samulsson is stated to be directly related to the Kings of Ascalon, and is the Duke of Ebonhawke.

Wade Samuelsson is the only human in Ebonhawke who claims to be a living descendant of the Ascalonian royal family, but this claim is heavily disputed and there is no evidence what so ever that links him directly or distantly to the royal bloodline.If his claim is true though then he would in theory be able to end the Foefire curse.. but he has nothing to prove his claim, and the political matters I mentioned before involving the Charr are also applicable with any claim Wade would make to call himself a King of Ascalon.

That cant be true though. A lot of Ascalonians were caught in the foe fire but the vanguard founded ebonhawke in 1080 AE and the foefire happened in 1090 AE s just by the fact it's not a city of ghosts means some of the people of ascalon avoided the foefire curse.

And Duke Baradin could have had another kid easily by just making them a bastard. Royals always had bastards they kept secret because of succession politics. There was a lot of drama and controversy about Alderbern being king to begin with in ascalon so it wouldnt be shocking of him having a son was covered up. Or his son could have just been a little kid who left ascalon with the caravan. There is lots of ways they can spin this story.

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@TeeracK.3601 said:

@TeeracK.3601 said:Just kind of an idea I had for what might be happening to Ascalon either in the future of GW2 or some other project. With the Charr and Humans starting to work closer together and the Charr wanting to move past the treaty with actions. I was thinking that a future story beat that could be really interesting for living story could be the Foefire. According to the legend " if either Sohothin or Magdaer returned to the haunted remains of Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon, the curse of the Foefire would be lifted, and the ghosts would finally be laid to rest." so only the humans would be able to end the curse for the Charr.

The problem with this is that the curse specifically states it must be lifted by the current king of Ascalon from King Doric's lineage and as far as we know, King Doric's Ascalonian line has been ended.

King Adelbern only had one son Prince Rurik and Rurik was killed before he could produce an hair with his wife who was captured and sacrificed by the Charr after the Searing.If they had produced a child it is severely unlikely it would have gone unnoticed back in Gw1 as Rurik was a major character in the early part of the prophecies storyline.With the whole Charr invasion going on and the orphan kids and people regularly being captured by Charr.. plus the fact that Rurik's wife was an active soldier for the Ascalon forces as well during the war it would be a very hard sell to write in that they had a kid and then kept it secret.Rurik would never have left the kingdom without his kid either when he lead the Ascalonian settlers over the Shiverpeaks where he was killed in action.As far as we know too Adelbern never had any b
**
children either and if he did they were probably wiped out in the foefire anyway.

It's almost a certainty that Adelberns line no longer exists at this point which would make the only rightful Heirs of the Ascalonian monarch fall on Duke Barradin's side.Duke Barradin's line however as far as we now is also dead.. he only had a daughter Lady Althea who was Prince Rurik's wife whom I mentioned above was captured and sacrificed by the Charr before an heir could be produced.

Unless there is some unmentioned relative or sibling that was never written in to Gw1 then as far as we know the Ascalonian royal family simply doesn't exist anymore.. and if the curse does specifically require a current King.. or Queen of Ascalon then that's unlikely to happen as well since those lands now belong to the Charr and are recognised as Charr lands even by the only living Human Monarch and as far as we know the only living distant relative of the Ascalonian Royal family.I highly doubt the Charr would ever allow a Human to hold the title of King or Queen over their lands, even if it's just a formality necessary for the occasion.. it could end up legitimising and emboldening radical factions like the Separatists who would see it as undeniable proof that Ascalon is Human territory under enemy occupation.

Queen Jennah being as far as we know the only living descendant of King Doric's line is potentially the only living human who might be able to break the curse.. but she is from the Krytan line not an Ascalonian one and I don't know if she even has a legitimate claim over the lands of both Ascalon and Orr nor if she could in theory break the curse of the Foefire even if she did hold the title of Queen of Ascalon and possessed both the Crown and Magdaer the latter of which last we heard was being repaired by a Norn Smith way back during the campaign against Zhaitan.Rytlock was the last one in possession of the Crown as well but it's fate has not been disclosed either as the last time we saw the crown Rytlock jumped into the mists with it.. for all we know it was lost or destroyed there, Rytlock has not mentioned the crown since that event.

There is also the question of the Krytan Royal locket as well which always displays the true heir to the throne within it.This object was teased back in Living world 2 but we never got to see the image inside the locket.There's been some debate about the the existence of this item and why it was added to the game.. some people theorise that Queen Jennah isn't actually a legitimate blood heir to the throne and if this is indeed true then it would mean that she is not a descendant of King Doric and that she would never be able to break the curse on Ascalon either.That would actually be a very interesting story to unfold should Queen Jennah ever attempt to break the curse on Ascalon.. if she fails to break it, oh boy would that cause a political Sh**show back in Kryta lolHer entire claim to the throne would be called into question by both legitimate people wanting the truth and malevolent opportunistic factions vying for power.

Duke Baradin was still alive at the end of gw1 and he was the rightful king. If he ended up having any more kids before he died then the rightful heir could still exist easily. Dev's leave things unanswered like this not by mistake. Just considering how human nobility works. If Ebonhawke was founded by Gwen. A nobody, a commoner. Then it would make complete sense to have her child marry someone who was noble or better a royal, so it wouldnt even be shocking if in Logan's family line has some descendant of Duke Baradin mixed into it. Don't forget there is 3-4 generations between Logan and Gwen. Military leaders marring into nobility is very common in history.

Adelbern was alive at the end of Gw1 as well.I think you've mixed your time of events though, the end of Gw1 was before the Charr overrun Ascalon resulting in Adelbern triggering the Foefire.Both Adelbern and Duke Barradin were killed in this event as the foefire consumed everything in an inferno of white fire.Pretty much every living thing in almost the entire region of Ascalon was wiped out leaving Ebonhawke the last existing Human settlement in the region, and it was nothing like it is in Gw2 back then either.. not a city with civilians but more of a military fortress run by the Ebon Vanguard.

As far as we know there were no human survivors of the foefire in Ascalon.. there's no record of refugees fleeing to Ebonhawke as far as I'm aware and by the time Adelbern had decided to trigger the Foefire Ascalon city was complely under seige by overwhelming numbers of Charr.. there was no hope of escape at that point.. they were all doomed.If Adelbern or Duke Barradin had any other children in their later years.. be they legitimate or b
**
s then it's more than likely they died in the Foefire.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Wade Samulsson is stated to be directly related to the Kings of Ascalon, and is the Duke of Ebonhawke.

Wade Samuelsson is the only human in Ebonhawke who claims to be a living descendant of the Ascalonian royal family, but this claim is heavily disputed and there is no evidence what so ever that links him directly or distantly to the royal bloodline.If his claim is true though then he would in theory be able to end the Foefire curse.. but he has nothing to prove his claim, and the political matters I mentioned before involving the Charr are also applicable with any claim Wade would make to call himself a King of Ascalon.

That cant be true though. A lot of Ascalonians were caught in the foe fire but the vanguard founded ebonhawke in 1080 AE and the foefire happened in 1090 AE s just by the fact it's not a city of ghosts means some of the people of ascalon avoided the foefire curse.

And Duke Baradin could have had another kid easily by just making them a kitten. Royals always had bastards they kept secret because of succession politics. There was a lot of drama and controversy about Alderbern being king to begin with in ascalon so it wouldnt be shocking of him having a son was covered up. Or his son could have just been a little kid who left ascalon with the caravan. There is lots of ways they can spin this story.

Ebonhawke survived only because it was beyond the reaches of the Foefire curse, the spell had a limit range, broad as it was. No one within that range survived.

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@TeeracK.3601 said:

@TeeracK.3601 said:Just kind of an idea I had for what might be happening to Ascalon either in the future of GW2 or some other project. With the Charr and Humans starting to work closer together and the Charr wanting to move past the treaty with actions. I was thinking that a future story beat that could be really interesting for living story could be the Foefire. According to the legend " if either Sohothin or Magdaer returned to the haunted remains of Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon, the curse of the Foefire would be lifted, and the ghosts would finally be laid to rest." so only the humans would be able to end the curse for the Charr.

The problem with this is that the curse specifically states it must be lifted by the current king of Ascalon from King Doric's lineage and as far as we know, King Doric's Ascalonian line has been ended.

King Adelbern only had one son Prince Rurik and Rurik was killed before he could produce an hair with his wife who was captured and sacrificed by the Charr after the Searing.If they had produced a child it is severely unlikely it would have gone unnoticed back in Gw1 as Rurik was a major character in the early part of the prophecies storyline.With the whole Charr invasion going on and the orphan kids and people regularly being captured by Charr.. plus the fact that Rurik's wife was an active soldier for the Ascalon forces as well during the war it would be a very hard sell to write in that they had a kid and then kept it secret.Rurik would never have left the kingdom without his kid either when he lead the Ascalonian settlers over the Shiverpeaks where he was killed in action.As far as we know too Adelbern never had any b
**
children either and if he did they were probably wiped out in the foefire anyway.

It's almost a certainty that Adelberns line no longer exists at this point which would make the only rightful Heirs of the Ascalonian monarch fall on Duke Barradin's side.Duke Barradin's line however as far as we now is also dead.. he only had a daughter Lady Althea who was Prince Rurik's wife whom I mentioned above was captured and sacrificed by the Charr before an heir could be produced.

Unless there is some unmentioned relative or sibling that was never written in to Gw1 then as far as we know the Ascalonian royal family simply doesn't exist anymore.. and if the curse does specifically require a current King.. or Queen of Ascalon then that's unlikely to happen as well since those lands now belong to the Charr and are recognised as Charr lands even by the only living Human Monarch and as far as we know the only living distant relative of the Ascalonian Royal family.I highly doubt the Charr would ever allow a Human to hold the title of King or Queen over their lands, even if it's just a formality necessary for the occasion.. it could end up legitimising and emboldening radical factions like the Separatists who would see it as undeniable proof that Ascalon is Human territory under enemy occupation.

Queen Jennah being as far as we know the only living descendant of King Doric's line is potentially the only living human who might be able to break the curse.. but she is from the Krytan line not an Ascalonian one and I don't know if she even has a legitimate claim over the lands of both Ascalon and Orr nor if she could in theory break the curse of the Foefire even if she did hold the title of Queen of Ascalon and possessed both the Crown and Magdaer the latter of which last we heard was being repaired by a Norn Smith way back during the campaign against Zhaitan.Rytlock was the last one in possession of the Crown as well but it's fate has not been disclosed either as the last time we saw the crown Rytlock jumped into the mists with it.. for all we know it was lost or destroyed there, Rytlock has not mentioned the crown since that event.

There is also the question of the Krytan Royal locket as well which always displays the true heir to the throne within it.This object was teased back in Living world 2 but we never got to see the image inside the locket.There's been some debate about the the existence of this item and why it was added to the game.. some people theorise that Queen Jennah isn't actually a legitimate blood heir to the throne and if this is indeed true then it would mean that she is not a descendant of King Doric and that she would never be able to break the curse on Ascalon either.That would actually be a very interesting story to unfold should Queen Jennah ever attempt to break the curse on Ascalon.. if she fails to break it, oh boy would that cause a political Sh**show back in Kryta lolHer entire claim to the throne would be called into question by both legitimate people wanting the truth and malevolent opportunistic factions vying for power.

Duke Baradin was still alive at the end of gw1 and he was the rightful king. If he ended up having any more kids before he died then the rightful heir could still exist easily. Dev's leave things unanswered like this not by mistake. Just considering how human nobility works. If Ebonhawke was founded by Gwen. A nobody, a commoner. Then it would make complete sense to have her child marry someone who was noble or better a royal, so it wouldnt even be shocking if in Logan's family line has some descendant of Duke Baradin mixed into it. Don't forget there is 3-4 generations between Logan and Gwen. Military leaders marring into nobility is very common in history.

Adelbern was alive at the end of Gw1 as well.I think you've mixed your time of events though, the end of Gw1 was before the Charr overrun Ascalon resulting in Adelbern triggering the Foefire.Both Adelbern and Duke Barradin were killed in this event as the foefire consumed everything in an inferno of white fire.Pretty much every living thing in almost the entire region of Ascalon was wiped out leaving Ebonhawke the last existing Human settlement in the region, and it was nothing like it is in Gw2 back then either.. not a city with civilians but more of a military fortress run by the Ebon Vanguard.

As far as we know there were no human survivors of the foefire in Ascalon.. there's no record of refugees fleeing to Ebonhawke as far as I'm aware and by the time Adelbern had decided to trigger the Foefire Ascalon city was complely under seige by overwhelming numbers of Charr.. there was no hope of escape at that point.. they were all doomed.If Adelbern or Duke Barradin had any other children in their later years.. be they legitimate or b
**
s then it's more than likely they died in the Foefire.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Wade Samulsson is stated to be directly related to the Kings of Ascalon, and is the Duke of Ebonhawke.

Wade Samuelsson is the only human in Ebonhawke who claims to be a living descendant of the Ascalonian royal family, but this claim is heavily disputed and there is no evidence what so ever that links him directly or distantly to the royal bloodline.If his claim is true though then he would in theory be able to end the Foefire curse.. but he has nothing to prove his claim, and the political matters I mentioned before involving the Charr are also applicable with any claim Wade would make to call himself a King of Ascalon.

That cant be true though. A lot of Ascalonians were caught in the foe fire but the vanguard founded ebonhawke in 1080 AE and the foefire happened in 1090 AE s just by the fact it's not a city of ghosts means some of the people of ascalon avoided the foefire curse.

And Duke Baradin could have had another kid easily by just making them a kitten. Royals always had bastards they kept secret because of succession politics. There was a lot of drama and controversy about Alderbern being king to begin with in ascalon so it wouldnt be shocking of him having a son was covered up. Or his son could have just been a little kid who left ascalon with the caravan. There is lots of ways they can spin this story.

As Greyhawk said, they were beyond the reach of the fires.The open lands of Ascalon were mostly blanketed in white fire so pretty much everything there was wiped out, including pretty much every human settlement around Ascalon City and the bulk of the civilian population which would have been within Ascalon city itself as it was the only relatively safe place in the entire region they could live.

I would guess that the only human settlements/outposts that could have survived the Foefire due to being out of it's range were Ebonhawke, Nolani Academy, Grendich Courthouse and maybe Rin and Drascir although Drascir was lost during the war which we see happen in Gw1 at the end of the Ruins of Surmia mission and Rin had also fallen again prior to the Foefire as well so the only humans that would have been in these locations would have been slaves.. and the bulk of slaves captured by Charr forces to my knowledge were soldiers not civilians.It's unclear if Nolani and those other locations were also occupied by the Charr before the foefire as well which would leave the only humans left that could have escaped the foefire basically escaped slaves, refugees or soldiers stationed in or near the shiverpeaks or around the borders of Ascalon where they would have avoided most of the Charr forces as well.

When Ebonhawke was founded it was basically a run down stronghold that the Ebon Vanguard started to build up and reinforce over the years, nothing like what it is today in Gw2.It will have taken many, many years to fortify and build it up into the city it is now, much of that involved mining and expanding the city outwards and into the mountains around it.At this point it was pretty much unfit to house civilians and would have been purely a military outpost under constant attacks from the Charr so I highly doubt there were many civilians there if any before the Forefire was unleashed.If there were they would likely have been builders and miners, people with essential skills that were needed and not general civilians looking for a better life away from the war.

What civilians came to reside there later must have come from other surviving Ascalon settlements/outposts that were out of range of the foefire which also had avoided Charr occupation.. or they must have been escaped slaves, fleeing refugees or soldiers that were deep in Ascalon territory when the Foefire was unleashed.Ebonhakwe would have been the only location left in Ascalon that was defendable at that point and it would have either been go there or risk fleeing to Kryta over the shiverpeaks which would have been far more dangerous thanks to the Stone Summit as well as the natural hazards.There can't have been that many ascalonians left overall though, especially non military personally and the likelihood of one of those survivors being a descendant of King Adelbern or Duke Barradin I would expect to be extremely unlikely.But it's not impossible.. just very very unlikely I would say.

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@Teratus.2859 said:

@TeeracK.3601 said:Just kind of an idea I had for what might be happening to Ascalon either in the future of GW2 or some other project. With the Charr and Humans starting to work closer together and the Charr wanting to move past the treaty with actions. I was thinking that a future story beat that could be really interesting for living story could be the Foefire. According to the legend " if either Sohothin or Magdaer returned to the haunted remains of Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon, the curse of the Foefire would be lifted, and the ghosts would finally be laid to rest." so only the humans would be able to end the curse for the Charr.

The problem with this is that the curse specifically states it must be lifted by the current king of Ascalon from King Doric's lineage and as far as we know, King Doric's Ascalonian line has been ended.

King Adelbern only had one son Prince Rurik and Rurik was killed before he could produce an hair with his wife who was captured and sacrificed by the Charr after the Searing.If they had produced a child it is severely unlikely it would have gone unnoticed back in Gw1 as Rurik was a major character in the early part of the prophecies storyline.With the whole Charr invasion going on and the orphan kids and people regularly being captured by Charr.. plus the fact that Rurik's wife was an active soldier for the Ascalon forces as well during the war it would be a very hard sell to write in that they had a kid and then kept it secret.Rurik would never have left the kingdom without his kid either when he lead the Ascalonian settlers over the Shiverpeaks where he was killed in action.As far as we know too Adelbern never had any b
**
children either and if he did they were probably wiped out in the foefire anyway.

It's almost a certainty that Adelberns line no longer exists at this point which would make the only rightful Heirs of the Ascalonian monarch fall on Duke Barradin's side.Duke Barradin's line however as far as we now is also dead.. he only had a daughter Lady Althea who was Prince Rurik's wife whom I mentioned above was captured and sacrificed by the Charr before an heir could be produced.

Unless there is some unmentioned relative or sibling that was never written in to Gw1 then as far as we know the Ascalonian royal family simply doesn't exist anymore.. and if the curse does specifically require a current King.. or Queen of Ascalon then that's unlikely to happen as well since those lands now belong to the Charr and are recognised as Charr lands even by the only living Human Monarch and as far as we know the only living distant relative of the Ascalonian Royal family.I highly doubt the Charr would ever allow a Human to hold the title of King or Queen over their lands, even if it's just a formality necessary for the occasion.. it could end up legitimising and emboldening radical factions like the Separatists who would see it as undeniable proof that Ascalon is Human territory under enemy occupation.

Queen Jennah being as far as we know the only living descendant of King Doric's line is potentially the only living human who might be able to break the curse.. but she is from the Krytan line not an Ascalonian one and I don't know if she even has a legitimate claim over the lands of both Ascalon and Orr nor if she could in theory break the curse of the Foefire even if she did hold the title of Queen of Ascalon and possessed both the Crown and Magdaer the latter of which last we heard was being repaired by a Norn Smith way back during the campaign against Zhaitan.Rytlock was the last one in possession of the Crown as well but it's fate has not been disclosed either as the last time we saw the crown Rytlock jumped into the mists with it.. for all we know it was lost or destroyed there, Rytlock has not mentioned the crown since that event.

There is also the question of the Krytan Royal locket as well which always displays the true heir to the throne within it.This object was teased back in Living world 2 but we never got to see the image inside the locket.There's been some debate about the the existence of this item and why it was added to the game.. some people theorise that Queen Jennah isn't actually a legitimate blood heir to the throne and if this is indeed true then it would mean that she is not a descendant of King Doric and that she would never be able to break the curse on Ascalon either.That would actually be a very interesting story to unfold should Queen Jennah ever attempt to break the curse on Ascalon.. if she fails to break it, oh boy would that cause a political Sh**show back in Kryta lolHer entire claim to the throne would be called into question by both legitimate people wanting the truth and malevolent opportunistic factions vying for power.

Duke Baradin was still alive at the end of gw1 and he was the rightful king. If he ended up having any more kids before he died then the rightful heir could still exist easily. Dev's leave things unanswered like this not by mistake. Just considering how human nobility works. If Ebonhawke was founded by Gwen. A nobody, a commoner. Then it would make complete sense to have her child marry someone who was noble or better a royal, so it wouldnt even be shocking if in Logan's family line has some descendant of Duke Baradin mixed into it. Don't forget there is 3-4 generations between Logan and Gwen. Military leaders marring into nobility is very common in history.

Adelbern was alive at the end of Gw1 as well.I think you've mixed your time of events though, the end of Gw1 was before the Charr overrun Ascalon resulting in Adelbern triggering the Foefire.Both Adelbern and Duke Barradin were killed in this event as the foefire consumed everything in an inferno of white fire.Pretty much every living thing in almost the entire region of Ascalon was wiped out leaving Ebonhawke the last existing Human settlement in the region, and it was nothing like it is in Gw2 back then either.. not a city with civilians but more of a military fortress run by the Ebon Vanguard.

As far as we know there were no human survivors of the foefire in Ascalon.. there's no record of refugees fleeing to Ebonhawke as far as I'm aware and by the time Adelbern had decided to trigger the Foefire Ascalon city was complely under seige by overwhelming numbers of Charr.. there was no hope of escape at that point.. they were all doomed.If Adelbern or Duke Barradin had any other children in their later years.. be they legitimate or b
**
s then it's more than likely they died in the Foefire.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Wade Samulsson is stated to be directly related to the Kings of Ascalon, and is the Duke of Ebonhawke.

Wade Samuelsson is the only human in Ebonhawke who claims to be a living descendant of the Ascalonian royal family, but this claim is heavily disputed and there is no evidence what so ever that links him directly or distantly to the royal bloodline.If his claim is true though then he would in theory be able to end the Foefire curse.. but he has nothing to prove his claim, and the political matters I mentioned before involving the Charr are also applicable with any claim Wade would make to call himself a King of Ascalon.

That cant be true though. A lot of Ascalonians were caught in the foe fire but the vanguard founded ebonhawke in 1080 AE and the foefire happened in 1090 AE s just by the fact it's not a city of ghosts means some of the people of ascalon avoided the foefire curse.

And Duke Baradin could have had another kid easily by just making them a kitten. Royals always had bastards they kept secret because of succession politics. There was a lot of drama and controversy about Alderbern being king to begin with in ascalon so it wouldnt be shocking of him having a son was covered up. Or his son could have just been a little kid who left ascalon with the caravan. There is lots of ways they can spin this story.

As Greyhawk said, they were beyond the reach of the fires.The open lands of Ascalon were mostly blanketed in white fire so pretty much everything there was wiped out, including pretty much every human settlement around Ascalon City and the bulk of the civilian population which would have been within Ascalon city itself as it was the only relatively safe place in the entire region they could live.

I would guess that the only human settlements/outposts that could have survived the Foefire due to being out of it's range were Ebonhawke, Nolani Academy, Grendich Courthouse and maybe Rin and Drascir although Drascir was lost during the war which we see happen in Gw1 at the end of the Ruins of Surmia mission and Rin had also fallen again prior to the Foefire as well so the only humans that would have been in these locations would have been slaves.. and the bulk of slaves captured by Charr forces to my knowledge were soldiers not civilians.It's unclear if Nolani and those other locations were also occupied by the Charr before the foefire as well which would leave the only humans left that could have escaped the foefire basically escaped slaves, refugees or soldiers stationed in or near the shiverpeaks or around the borders of Ascalon where they would have avoided most of the Charr forces as well.

When Ebonhawke was founded it was basically a run down stronghold that the Ebon Vanguard started to build up and reinforce over the years, nothing like what it is today in Gw2.It will have taken many, many years to fortify and build it up into the city it is now, much of that involved mining and expanding the city outwards and into the mountains around it.At this point it was pretty much unfit to house civilians and would have been purely a military outpost under constant attacks from the Charr so I highly doubt there were many civilians there if any before the Forefire was unleashed.If there were they would likely have been builders and miners, people with essential skills that were needed and not general civilians looking for a better life away from the war.

What civilians came to reside there later must have come from other surviving Ascalon settlements/outposts that were out of range of the foefire which also had avoided Charr occupation.. or they must have been escaped slaves, fleeing refugees or soldiers that were deep in Ascalon territory when the Foefire was unleashed.Ebonhakwe would have been the only location left in Ascalon that was defendable at that point and it would have either been go there or risk fleeing to Kryta over the shiverpeaks which would have been far more dangerous thanks to the Stone Summit as well as the natural hazards.There can't have been that many ascalonians left overall though, especially non military personally and the likelihood of one of those survivors being a descendant of King Adelbern or Duke Barradin I would expect to be extremely unlikely.But it's not impossible.. just very very unlikely I would say.

@TeeracK.3601 said:Just kind of an idea I had for what might be happening to Ascalon either in the future of GW2 or some other project. With the Charr and Humans starting to work closer together and the Charr wanting to move past the treaty with actions. I was thinking that a future story beat that could be really interesting for living story could be the Foefire. According to the legend " if either Sohothin or Magdaer returned to the haunted remains of Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon, the curse of the Foefire would be lifted, and the ghosts would finally be laid to rest." so only the humans would be able to end the curse for the Charr.

The problem with this is that the curse specifically states it must be lifted by the current king of Ascalon from King Doric's lineage and as far as we know, King Doric's Ascalonian line has been ended.

King Adelbern only had one son Prince Rurik and Rurik was killed before he could produce an hair with his wife who was captured and sacrificed by the Charr after the Searing.If they had produced a child it is severely unlikely it would have gone unnoticed back in Gw1 as Rurik was a major character in the early part of the prophecies storyline.With the whole Charr invasion going on and the orphan kids and people regularly being captured by Charr.. plus the fact that Rurik's wife was an active soldier for the Ascalon forces as well during the war it would be a very hard sell to write in that they had a kid and then kept it secret.Rurik would never have left the kingdom without his kid either when he lead the Ascalonian settlers over the Shiverpeaks where he was killed in action.As far as we know too Adelbern never had any b
**
children either and if he did they were probably wiped out in the foefire anyway.

It's almost a certainty that Adelberns line no longer exists at this point which would make the only rightful Heirs of the Ascalonian monarch fall on Duke Barradin's side.Duke Barradin's line however as far as we now is also dead.. he only had a daughter Lady Althea who was Prince Rurik's wife whom I mentioned above was captured and sacrificed by the Charr before an heir could be produced.

Unless there is some unmentioned relative or sibling that was never written in to Gw1 then as far as we know the Ascalonian royal family simply doesn't exist anymore.. and if the curse does specifically require a current King.. or Queen of Ascalon then that's unlikely to happen as well since those lands now belong to the Charr and are recognised as Charr lands even by the only living Human Monarch and as far as we know the only living distant relative of the Ascalonian Royal family.I highly doubt the Charr would ever allow a Human to hold the title of King or Queen over their lands, even if it's just a formality necessary for the occasion.. it could end up legitimising and emboldening radical factions like the Separatists who would see it as undeniable proof that Ascalon is Human territory under enemy occupation.

Queen Jennah being as far as we know the only living descendant of King Doric's line is potentially the only living human who might be able to break the curse.. but she is from the Krytan line not an Ascalonian one and I don't know if she even has a legitimate claim over the lands of both Ascalon and Orr nor if she could in theory break the curse of the Foefire even if she did hold the title of Queen of Ascalon and possessed both the Crown and Magdaer the latter of which last we heard was being repaired by a Norn Smith way back during the campaign against Zhaitan.Rytlock was the last one in possession of the Crown as well but it's fate has not been disclosed either as the last time we saw the crown Rytlock jumped into the mists with it.. for all we know it was lost or destroyed there, Rytlock has not mentioned the crown since that event.

There is also the question of the Krytan Royal locket as well which always displays the true heir to the throne within it.This object was teased back in Living world 2 but we never got to see the image inside the locket.There's been some debate about the the existence of this item and why it was added to the game.. some people theorise that Queen Jennah isn't actually a legitimate blood heir to the throne and if this is indeed true then it would mean that she is not a descendant of King Doric and that she would never be able to break the curse on Ascalon either.That would actually be a very interesting story to unfold should Queen Jennah ever attempt to break the curse on Ascalon.. if she fails to break it, oh boy would that cause a political Sh**show back in Kryta lolHer entire claim to the throne would be called into question by both legitimate people wanting the truth and malevolent opportunistic factions vying for power.

Duke Baradin was still alive at the end of gw1 and he was the rightful king. If he ended up having any more kids before he died then the rightful heir could still exist easily. Dev's leave things unanswered like this not by mistake. Just considering how human nobility works. If Ebonhawke was founded by Gwen. A nobody, a commoner. Then it would make complete sense to have her child marry someone who was noble or better a royal, so it wouldnt even be shocking if in Logan's family line has some descendant of Duke Baradin mixed into it. Don't forget there is 3-4 generations between Logan and Gwen. Military leaders marring into nobility is very common in history.

Adelbern was alive at the end of Gw1 as well.I think you've mixed your time of events though, the end of Gw1 was before the Charr overrun Ascalon resulting in Adelbern triggering the Foefire.Both Adelbern and Duke Barradin were killed in this event as the foefire consumed everything in an inferno of white fire.Pretty much every living thing in almost the entire region of Ascalon was wiped out leaving Ebonhawke the last existing Human settlement in the region, and it was nothing like it is in Gw2 back then either.. not a city with civilians but more of a military fortress run by the Ebon Vanguard.

As far as we know there were no human survivors of the foefire in Ascalon.. there's no record of refugees fleeing to Ebonhawke as far as I'm aware and by the time Adelbern had decided to trigger the Foefire Ascalon city was complely under seige by overwhelming numbers of Charr.. there was no hope of escape at that point.. they were all doomed.If Adelbern or Duke Barradin had any other children in their later years.. be they legitimate or b
**
s then it's more than likely they died in the Foefire.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Wade Samulsson is stated to be directly related to the Kings of Ascalon, and is the Duke of Ebonhawke.

Wade Samuelsson is the only human in Ebonhawke who claims to be a living descendant of the Ascalonian royal family, but this claim is heavily disputed and there is no evidence what so ever that links him directly or distantly to the royal bloodline.If his claim is true though then he would in theory be able to end the Foefire curse.. but he has nothing to prove his claim, and the political matters I mentioned before involving the Charr are also applicable with any claim Wade would make to call himself a King of Ascalon.

That cant be true though. A lot of Ascalonians were caught in the foe fire but the vanguard founded ebonhawke in 1080 AE and the foefire happened in 1090 AE s just by the fact it's not a city of ghosts means some of the people of ascalon avoided the foefire curse.

And Duke Baradin could have had another kid easily by just making them a kitten. Royals always had bastards they kept secret because of succession politics. There was a lot of drama and controversy about Alderbern being king to begin with in ascalon so it wouldnt be shocking of him having a son was covered up. Or his son could have just been a little kid who left ascalon with the caravan. There is lots of ways they can spin this story.

Ebonhawke survived
only
because it was beyond the reaches of the Foefire curse, the spell had a limit range, broad as it was. No one within that range survived.

Ah okay. There could still have been royals to escape to kryta or end up in the Vanguard after being taken like Gwen. They could also do something crazy like awakening the bones of Prince Rurik or something :P There is also the idea that King Doric could have had descendants outside of Ascalon like if he had a daughter who was married off to Orr or some other kingdom.

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@"TeeracK.3601" said:I know there are ogres there. I figure the ogres would just be along the east and south on the fringe of the human lands since in the event chain we kind of wipe out the south east ogers in field of ruin. Any location we put anyone always ends up having some lesser races in it. Centaur all over kyrta, hylek all over tarnished coast, harpies and grawl all over ascalon, skritt all over, etc. They dont need to all be hostile, or unified, or so big that they cant have villages and smaller territories inside a human territory.The entire reason the ogres are in Blazeridge Steppes, Iron Marches, Fields of Ruins, and the Crystal Desert is because of overpopulation in the Blazeridge Mountains proper. They're expanding because they lack the land and food for their population to remain stable upon.

So it wouldn't make sense for the charr to have a hefty presence there. More so since the Flame Legion survived by hiding within the Blazeridge Mountains after their defeat by Kalla's forces. For the comparison to other lesser races - they're lesser races because they don't have a large presence in Central Tyria, and are more primitive in comparison. But even those "lesser races" have their own homelands that aren't surrounded by the major races - hylek have the Heart of Maguuma, for example, as well as the Zintl Holy Grounds and its many nearby settlements, with zero human settlements in Sparkly Fen (not counting the ruins that have been abandoned for 250+ years). The Blazeridge Mountains is the ogre's version of Heart of Maguuma - there might be some non-ogre presence, like there is Rata Novus and Tarir in the Maguuma, but they're small and possibly abandoned.

The reason why grawl, quaggan, and skritt aren't unified, btw, is because they've been displaced. Skritt and quaggan in particular. Though the lesser races are also tribal and don't have a centralized form of government outside of their tribes, but this doesn't prevent large tribes from being established (see: Itzle and Nuhoch). The quaggan once did have a centralized government and a unified nation, but this was destroyed by the DSD and krait.

@videoboy.4162 said:I'm not sure why, but I thought the Renegades were folded into the Dominion?

This was the implication, but we never firmly saw this outright, since all the Dominion are implied fresh turncoats rather than long-standing Renegades.

@Teratus.2859 said:The problem with this is that the curse specifically states it must be lifted by the current king of Ascalon from King Doric's lineage and as far as we know, King Doric's Ascalonian line has been ended.

King Adelbern only had one son Prince Rurik and Rurik was killed before he could produce an hair with his wife who was captured and sacrificed by the Charr after the Searing.It hasn't. Adelbern's line ended, but not Doric's Ascalonian lineage. The current Duke of Ebonhawke, Wade Samuelsson, is a descendant of Ascalonian kings.

Also fun fact: Rurik is originally called Adelbern's firstborn son in the Prophecies manual. Implying there was a second that never got talked about.

@"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:A. It wasn't "somehow", it was a full scale direct invasion of Ebonhawke by destroyers, and we told them "look, you can keep your head in the sand, and let Ebonhawke fall, or stop being stupid and save the city". Not to mention, with Caudecus's death several years ago the major source of funding for the whole Separatist movement(which was never particularly large to begin with) got cut out from under them, and they would have begun to collapse in the interim. And the many instances of Charr/humans work together, as well as the fact the Charr were there right now doing more to protect their city then they were, would have made such ideals look even less sustainable.B. We wouldn't have seen any Renegades since the Renegades were already on the way out back in vanilla, and the ones that joined up with Bangar would have just been labeled Dominion forces, since everyone who defected to Bangar became Dominion.C. We never see Dominion solders holding hands with humans and the other Charr. The only Charr in the Ebonhawke DRM are United Legions Charr.

A. I feel you, and the current writers, are vastly underselling how hard it is to overcome much bitter hatred and racism. As to Caudecus, the prologue for IBS firmly established the Separatists as still being a solid thread; lack of Caudecus' funding harmed them, but not majorly. And the Separatist movement was large enough to be found in half of Ascalon (we have camps from Fields of Ruins to Fireheart Rise and everywhere inbetween); far more numerous than the Renegades for sure.B. Again, IBS firmly established the Renegades were a major force still, as did the Ebonhawke DRM (or rather, they were until Bangar's fall). Despite your insistence, the Renegades were never "on the way out" until now.C. Never said Dominion soldiers were, I was referring to the Separatist Sympathisers, the Flame Legion DRM situation, and all the overarching peace and metaphorical hand-holding talks that occur constantly throughout the DRMs. It just takes one small destroyer invasion to end centuries of racism and hatred, apparently - it's amazing that the risen, mordrem, icebrood, and branded couldn't solve the problem but a bit of fire can!

@Hypnowulf.7403 said:I offer some sagely wisdom: Lore... is subjective!Subjective isn't what you're looking for.

Being constantly written and rewritten is what you're looking for.

If lore was subjective, then there'd be no canon. Canon, by definition, isn't subjective but objective. The thing is that, depending on the writers at the time, what is objectively established can be expanded, rewritten, or left alone.

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@"Teratus.2859" said:I think you've mixed your time of events though, the end of Gw1 was before the Charr overrun Ascalon resulting in Adelbern triggering the Foefire.Both Adelbern and Duke Barradin were killed in this event as the foefire consumed everything in an inferno of white fire.Pretty much every living thing in almost the entire region of Ascalon was wiped out leaving Ebonhawke the last existing Human settlement in the region, and it was nothing like it is in Gw2 back then either.. not a city with civilians but more of a military fortress run by the Ebon Vanguard.The Foefire occurs 10 years after the events of GW1. Plenty of time for either Barradin or Adelbern to sire a new child and ship them off to Ebonhawke, the perceived "back of the line". Or to Ascalon Settlement in Kryta, if we're being honest - IIRC, there was an establish piece of lore that said they continued getting refugees well after 1072.

Technically speaking, we didn't even interact all that much with Adelbern or Barradin after 1072. Not enough to be told whether or not they had a new kid. We do get a single mission instance with Barradin in 1078, but that's pretty much it.

Wade Samuelsson is the only human in Ebonhawke who claims to be a living descendant of the Ascalonian royal family, but this claim is heavily disputed and there is no evidence what so ever that links him directly or distantly to the royal bloodline.If his claim is true though then he would in theory be able to end the Foefire curse.. but he has nothing to prove his claim, and the political matters I mentioned before involving the Charr are also applicable with any claim Wade would make to call himself a King of Ascalon.There's zero dispute about this except among players. And there's nothing saying that Wade has nothing to prove his claim, except players not being given solid proof. While there is a chance he's wrong or lying, there's no indication presented to give us a legitimate reason to doubt this.

@"Teratus.2859" said:I would guess that the only human settlements/outposts that could have survived the Foefire due to being out of it's range were Ebonhawke, Nolani Academy, Grendich Courthouse and maybe Rin and Drascir although Drascir was lost during the war which we see happen in Gw1 at the end of the Ruins of Surmia mission and Rin had also fallen again prior to the Foefire as well so the only humans that would have been in these locations would have been slaves.. and the bulk of slaves captured by Charr forces to my knowledge were soldiers not civilians.It's unclear if Nolani and those other locations were also occupied by the Charr before the foefire as well which would leave the only humans left that could have escaped the foefire basically escaped slaves, refugees or soldiers stationed in or near the shiverpeaks or around the borders of Ascalon where they would have avoided most of the Charr forces as well.

Nolani is far closer to Ascalon City than Ebonhawke. Grendich might have been far enough away, but there are Foefire ghosts there, so it got caught in the blast. Drascir would have been far enough away, but as established it was conquered - only slaves and prisoners of war would have been there.

Rin was occurpied during the Foefire, as established in Ghosts of Ascalon and the story of Frye Fireburn - after they witnessed the Foefire firsthand, they returned to the charr outposts at Rin, before construction of the Black Citadel began. If Rin was captured, it's a sure bet Nolani was, too.

When Ebonhawke was founded it was basically a run down stronghold that the Ebon Vanguard started to build up and reinforce over the years, nothing like what it is today in Gw2.It will have taken many, many years to fortify and build it up into the city it is now, much of that involved mining and expanding the city outwards and into the mountains around it.At this point it was pretty much unfit to house civilians and would have been purely a military outpost under constant attacks from the Charr so I highly doubt there were many civilians there if any before the Forefire was unleashed.If there were they would likely have been builders and miners, people with essential skills that were needed and not general civilians looking for a better life away from the war.

I would recommend you read The Founding, because there were 100% civilians with the Ebon Vanguard. An entire caravan of civilians.

Officially, the assignment was to defend against a threat to the south. Unofficially, Adelbern was exiling the popular Ebon Vanguard and their supporters - which included many civilians - so that his own decisions don't get questioned. A notable decline in his sanity.

"Today, a weaponsmith questioned the king's decision to send the Vanguard back into harm's way so soon. In response, the king decreed that he should join the expedition—to keep the Vanguard properly armed. Before long, a baker, a leather crafter, a tailor and their families had also been ordered to join the caravan. Is this a sign of support from the king or an act to remove opposition from sight? It's a question I dare not voice. Regardless, the Ebon Vanguard prepares to leave home once more, doing so without complaint and with their usual efficiency.""The day the Vanguard left Ascalon, the second time, was sad but proud. Civilians lined the street to honor these heroes from the north. At the city gates, dozens of civilians from various trades met the unit to unexpectedly join them on their journey. Additional supplies were packed to accommodate them. So many people willing to leave with the Vanguard and abandon all they'd ever known - was it pride for the unit that spurred them on, or was it fear of their king?"

You can even go in-game and check the graves. Many of them are from a time that would be when Ebonhawke was established.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Technically speaking, we didn't even interact all that much with Adelbern or Barradin after 1072. Not enough to be told whether or not they had a new kid. We do get a single mission instance with Barradin in 1078, but that's pretty much it.

I know, although given that there is no record of either men having another legitimate heir I would doubt that they did, unless it was a random bastard child in which case they may not have even known nor cared if they did.Given the state of Ascalon at the time I doubt either men had any interest in having more children.. too busy fighting the Charr.

That said there is so much room for additions in the writing due to how lacking information is about these characters personal lives etc.But from what we know now there's nothing to suggest they did have more kids.

There's zero dispute about this except among players. And there's nothing saying that Wade has nothing to prove his claim, except players not being given solid proof. While there is a chance he's wrong or lying, there's no indication presented to give us a legitimate reason to doubt this.

Considering the importance of the claim i'd have to side with the players and the wiki tbh.He has no ancestral background provided either that would support his claim.. all players have to go on as you said is his own word.Ultimately this is a failing on the writing more than anything.

I would actually like to see a story involving Wade trying to break the curse, with his claim disputed as it is it really could go either way which would be pretty exciting for both sides to finally find out who was right and who was wrong about his claim.

@"Teratus.2859" said:I would guess that the only human settlements/outposts that could have survived the Foefire due to being out of it's range were Ebonhawke, Nolani Academy, Grendich Courthouse and maybe Rin and Drascir although Drascir was lost during the war which we see happen in Gw1 at the end of the Ruins of Surmia mission and Rin had also fallen again prior to the Foefire as well so the only humans that would have been in these locations would have been slaves.. and the bulk of slaves captured by Charr forces to my knowledge were soldiers not civilians.It's unclear if Nolani and those other locations were also occupied by the Charr before the foefire as well which would leave the only humans left that could have escaped the foefire basically escaped slaves, refugees or soldiers stationed in or near the shiverpeaks or around the borders of Ascalon where they would have avoided most of the Charr forces as well.

Nolani is far closer to Ascalon City than Ebonhawke. Grendich might have been far enough away, but there are Foefire ghosts there, so it got caught in the blast. Drascir would have been far enough away, but as established it was conquered - only slaves and prisoners of war would have been there.

Rin was occurpied during the Foefire, as established in Ghosts of Ascalon and the story of Frye Fireburn - after they witnessed the Foefire firsthand, they returned to the charr outposts at Rin, before construction of the Black Citadel began. If Rin was captured, it's a sure bet Nolani was, too.

I would assume that was the fate of Nolani as well.Good point on Grendich though, I overlooked the ghosts present there in Gw2.. where there's ghosts there was Foefire I guess.

I would recommend you read
, because there were 100% civilians with the Ebon Vanguard. An entire caravan of civilians.

Yep, this was a massive oversight on my part, I forgot about that book.I was completely wrong here.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:A. I feel you, and the current writers, are vastly underselling how hard it is to overcome much bitter hatred and racism. As to Caudecus, the prologue for IBS firmly established the Separatists as still being a solid thread; lack of Caudecus' funding harmed them, but not majorly. And the Separatist movement was large enough to be found in half of Ascalon (we have camps from Fields of Ruins to Fireheart Rise and everywhere inbetween); far more numerous than the Renegades for sure.B. Again, IBS firmly established the Renegades were a major force still, as did the Ebonhawke DRM (or rather, they were until Bangar's fall). Despite your insistence, the Renegades were never "on the way out" until now.C. Never said Dominion soldiers were, I was referring to the Separatist Sympathisers, the Flame Legion DRM situation, and all the overarching peace and metaphorical hand-holding talks that occur constantly throughout the DRMs. It just takes one small destroyer invasion to end centuries of racism and hatred, apparently - it's amazing that the risen, mordrem, icebrood, and branded couldn't solve the problem but a bit of fire can!I feel you oversell the power of many smaller factions in fictional settings, and aren't really good at looking past the immediate to understand the full context behind narrative developments.

Mentioning that Separatists are still around doesn't make them a solid thread. Just because you haven't killed every single last person believing in some ideology doesn't mean they have the forces to still be a sufficient threat. The game acknowledging that "yeah there are some of these people still around", doesn't mean they are a big issue. It just means that yeah, some of those people would still be around, and the game recognizes that. The Separatists had all of 9 camps in-game, most of which were just three small tents around a camp fire. Even back in vanilla they weren't particularly large, powerful, widespread, or well funded, and we go around and break all that up in vanilla. Then we kill their major source of funding, Caudecus, in LWS3. Further weakening a group that was never particularly well off to begin with. On top of that theres other factors such as

  • The Charr letting humans expand outside of Ebonhawke into the Fields of Ruin.
  • The actual signing of the treaty.
  • Instances of Charr helping humans, such as the Charr Warbands helping in Lake Doric, and humans helping the Charr, such as the Seraph helping the Charr in Drizzlewood
  • The Charr literally being there to help Ebonhawke against the destroyers in its time of need.

It isn't just "ohh man destroyers are invading all hatred is instantly gone" as you so try to reductio ad absurdum it into. Its a decade of actions slowly eroding it down. And many of those people may still not like the Charr, but are able to recognize the bigger threat when its literally right there threatening them, and the Charr are right there trying to help them defend the city.

All of the above is true of the Renegades, except with Caudecus replaced with Ajax and Bangar. The Renegades were never a big group to being with, and we stop their plans, kill their leader, and raid their base, back in vanilla. Just because the game mentions that some Renegades are still around by the time of IBS doesn't mean they weren't on their way out, it just means the game was acknowledging the fact that there would still be some people with this ideology around because we didn't totally genocide them.

As for your last bit where you talk about overarching peace. Again, you ignore the context, and honestly the sheer difference, between what is happening now, compared to past stories.

  • Kralkatorrik, and his Branded, never even tried a large scale assault on the major capitals. In fact, his forces were marching south, out of Ascalon, to try to meet up with their master in the desert, and most conflict with the Branded was started by the Charr.
  • The same thing is true of Mordremoth and his Modrem. He attacked the Pale Tree, and his vines came up in a few places, but there was never a large scale invasion attempt of central Tyria that reached as many as this does.
  • The Deep Sea Dragon hasn't even really made any sort of impact on central Tyria.
  • The one that could arguable come closest in Zhaitan, but he only attacked Claw Island, and some of his shambling minions like Kellach tried to attack the queen.
  • Even for Jormag and Primrodus, before IBS neither of their forces were partiuclarly threatening most races. The Icebrood were mostly in Frostgorge, and the northern edge of Snowden, aka, pretty much the middle of nowhere. And destroyers had popped up in a few places, but were mostly in super remote areas like Mount Maelstrom, or the Ring of Fire.

The Dragon's minions tended to mostly stay in super remote areas of the world, where no one really was to begin with, rendering any sort of sense of invasion hallow(a long standing joke about GW2's plot being the nonexistence of the supposed Dragon minion invasions) Compare that to Primrodus and Jormag's forces now literally freezing over places like Lake Doric, in an attempt to attack Divinity's Reach, and actively attacking places like Rata Sum, Lions Arch(again), the Ascalonian Settlement, the Snowden Drifts DRM is just on the other side of the mountains from Hoelbrak, etc. The sheer difference in scope, and size, of the current war makes it totally different from anything we have seen previously. Who would have guessed a war of a totally different scale and scope then before would lead to more races unifying to try to stop it when previous conflicts never involved them, thus gave them no reason to do so!

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