Jump to content
  • Sign Up

perm stealth


Recommended Posts

Still in favor of a system where for every second you are in stealth, you cant stealth for a second (debuff that cannot be negated). Adds up over time, doesnt matter if in combat or not.

So if a thief want to stealth for a minute, he can... but as soon as he no longer stealth or attack, he cant stealth for a minute.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Dawdler.8521 said:Still in favor of a system where for every second you are in stealth, you cant stealth for a second (debuff that cannot be negated). Adds up over time, doesnt matter if in combat or not.

So if a thief want to stealth for a minute, he can... but as soon as he no longer stealth or attack, he cant stealth for a minute.

Which should be capped to some maximum!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Galmac.4680 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Still in favor of a system where for every second you are in stealth, you cant stealth for a second (debuff that cannot be negated). Adds up over time, doesnt matter if in combat or not.

So if a thief want to stealth for a minute, he can... but as soon as he no longer stealth or attack, he cant stealth for a minute.

Which should be capped to some maximum!If a thief can stealth for 10 minutes straight, great what a pro dagger leaper. But he then cant stealth for 10 minutes lol. And the debuff would of course remain even if you log out (like food, not like boons).

The point is to weigh the time you are in stealth vs the cost. So I would argue no cap for such an idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would be happy with just using an attack reveals them. Pretty annoying to have a thief, engi, ranger etc open with a burst from stealth and me to predict when it's coming and dodge it or counter it with a block.....Only to have them remain in stealth? This is one of my only complaints about stealth, sorry, this should not be a try burst, fail, never be revealed, reset, wait for CD and try again.

It's so ridiculous to see a full rapid fire etc coming out of thin air 1,500+ range away hitting shelter "block, block, block, block" and just standing there waiting for something to actually target and fight. If they use a skill that misses, blinded, blocked etc etc it should still reveal the player.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Still in favor of a system where for every second you are in stealth, you cant stealth for a second (debuff that cannot be negated). Adds up over time, doesnt matter if in combat or not.

So if a thief want to stealth for a minute, he can... but as soon as he no longer stealth or attack, he cant stealth for a minute.

Which should be capped to some maximum!If a thief can stealth for 10 minutes straight, great what a pro dagger leaper. But he then cant stealth for 10 minutes lol. And the debuff would of course remain even if you log out (like food, not like boons).

The point is to weigh the time you are in stealth vs the cost. So I would argue no cap for such an idea.

I like the idea, but I would rather have it capped at 10s max, since we have build templates so it's possible that they'd stack 30s+ stealth and then switch to evasive build seconds before engage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:I would be happy with just using an attack reveals them. Pretty annoying to have a thief, engi, ranger etc open with a burst from stealth and me to predict when it's coming and dodge it or counter it with a block.....Only to have them remain in stealth? This is one of my only complaints about stealth, sorry, this should not be a try burst, fail, never be revealed, reset, wait for CD and try again.

It's so ridiculous to see a full rapid fire etc coming out of thin air 1,500+ range away hitting shelter "block, block, block, block" and just standing there waiting for something to actually target and fight. If they use a skill that misses, blinded, blocked etc etc it should still reveal the player.

Tbh, out of all the things suggested on the thread. This makes the most sense.

Attacking should reveal you, period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:I would be happy with just using an attack reveals them. Pretty annoying to have a thief, engi, ranger etc open with a burst from stealth and me to predict when it's coming and dodge it or counter it with a block.....Only to have them remain in stealth? This is one of my only complaints about stealth, sorry, this should not be a try burst, fail, never be revealed, reset, wait for CD and try again.

It's so ridiculous to see a full rapid fire etc coming out of thin air 1,500+ range away hitting shelter "block, block, block, block" and just standing there waiting for something to actually target and fight. If they use a skill that misses, blinded, blocked etc etc it should still reveal the player.

^ This. It's how stealth has worked in every other game I've played. Also, taking damage (or even healing others) doesn't knock you out of stealth. Maybe in gw2 because the amount of AOE this would be too restrictive then? (Unless they set it to some damage threshold). This is why stealth is high-reward, low-risk. If you're in stealth and you miss your burst, you're still in stealth - even if they turn and do a bunch of AoE. With the mobility of most thieves, it only compounds this. Stealth should be high-risk, high-reward. Not "spam attacks while invisible and untargettable, and if you miss oh wells just try again!"

(Just to be clear, too, as Scrapper you can abuse stealth a lot by healing and cleansing and reviving people while in stealth, as well... I have personally revived lords this way, while taking damage - just start the revive before you take the 1st tick).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's no fixing it now without redesigning the thief class, but having so much stealth access that isn't tied to any sort of cooldown (e.g. combo fields, initiative-based weapon skills) is an awful design. It's obnoxious to fight against even if thief is no threat at all. This should never have been a thing in competitive modes. Too much stealth. Too much mobility. Just let us fight, will you!?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Still in favor of a system where for every second you are in stealth, you cant stealth for a second (debuff that cannot be negated). Adds up over time, doesnt matter if in combat or not.

So if a thief want to stealth for a minute, he can... but as soon as he no longer stealth or attack, he cant stealth for a minute.

Which should be capped to some maximum!If a thief can stealth for 10 minutes straight, great what a pro dagger leaper. But he then cant stealth for 10 minutes lol. And the debuff would of course remain even if you log out (like food, not like boons).

The point is to weigh the time you are in stealth vs the cost. So I would argue no cap for such an idea.

I like the idea, but I would rather have it capped at 10s max, since we have build templates so it's possible that they'd stack 30s+ stealth and then switch to evasive build seconds before engage.That would be classified as another issue - you shouldnt be able to switch templates while stealthed (or technically, stealthing should always be counted as being in combat).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have stealth skills overlap rather than stack, like superspeed.Exceptions can be certain skills on a case-by-case that are intended to stack. (Shadow refuge, sneak gyro etc.) There's already a cloaking mechanic, (camouflage?), separate from stealth, use that for the handful of pulsing skills.Blasting stealth fields could grant a flat 6s of stealth that can't be increased beyond that. (Further blasts just reset the timer.)Increase base stealth durations on thief skills, halve all durations to anyone in combat (so blasting in combat would be 3 seconds) to discourage "resetting", remove the sentry mark debuff's ability to reveal (but still mark them on the minimap.) Remove DE's ability to peel a reveal.

~ Kovu

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Handin.4032 said:

@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:I would be happy with just using an attack reveals them. Pretty annoying to have a thief, engi, ranger etc open with a burst from stealth and me to predict when it's coming and dodge it or counter it with a block.....Only to have them remain in stealth? This is one of my only complaints about stealth, sorry, this should not be a try burst, fail, never be revealed, reset, wait for CD and try again.

It's so ridiculous to see a full rapid fire etc coming out of thin air 1,500+ range away hitting shelter "block, block, block, block" and just standing there waiting for something to actually target and fight. If they use a skill that misses, blinded, blocked etc etc it should still reveal the player.

^ This. It's how stealth has worked in every other game I've played. Also, taking damage (or even healing others) doesn't knock you out of stealth. Maybe in gw2 because the amount of AOE this would be too restrictive then? (Unless they set it to some damage threshold). This is why stealth is high-reward, low-risk. If you're in stealth and you miss your burst, you're still in stealth - even if they turn and do a bunch of AoE. With the mobility of most thieves, it only compounds this. Stealth should be high-risk, high-reward. Not "spam attacks while invisible and untargettable, and if you miss oh wells just try again!"

(Just to be clear, too, as Scrapper you can abuse stealth a lot by healing and cleansing and reviving people while in stealth, as well... I have personally revived lords this way, while taking damage - just start the revive before you take the 1st tick).

There is a middle ground for this, being hit doesn't need to reveal, it only needs to show dmg indicators like all other combat, having to keep combat logs open is just stupid, there is no reason for dmg floaters to be removed when hitting someone in stealth. You know you are hitting something, even if you can't see them, so if they dodge or port etc etc they are still in stealth and can get away.

I think these "buggy" feeling mechanics are what make people hate stealth the most. I think fixing some of these would put stealth in a better place and doesn't kill off the many builds that use stealth because one or two almost 100% stealth uptime builds exist. The other issue I have is DE with reveal remove ability......Why? Stealth is a powerful if not one of the most powerful mechanics in the game and has both offensive and defensive use. Like with block, we have unblockable skills and traits as counters....Where is my unblockable block? Having a counter to a counter is stupid when most classes don't have reveal in a functioning build and the ones who do are VERY short duration and very long CD and often require a target and can still be dodged etc. When you reveal one of these builds, this is just about the ONLY time you have to target and hit them, they also still have all their evasion, ports, blinds, blocks etc etc still, but no, lets give them a skill with 2 charges that not only removes reveal but also gives them stealth, with only a 45 sec CD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kovu.7560 has a decent idea but that won't necessarily stop permastealth. People just need to space out their stealth applications more carefully (I would add that splitting the duration timer in/out of combat may not be easily technically feasible).

I'd also mention that there aren't that many permastealth thieves out there. For one, it takes a lot of effort (unless doing a group coordinated effort) and it rarely has that much pay off outside of helping set up an opener on unsuspecting opponents.

I suspect a lot of complaints about permastealth are from people who fought thieves who stealthed for variable periods of time and then killed them. But, because they couldn't know how much stealth the thief had access to they had no idea if the thief was able to permanently stealth or would have been forced to be visible for a while if the fight had lasted half a minute longer.

But, ultimately permastealth comes down to cheap Heart Seeker through smoke fields. Anet doesn't mind that kind of permastealth because you can see the combo field and try to damage them or force them out of the field. Same is true for Shadow Refuge. They also increased the cooldown on Smoke Screen so people can't individually use it too often.

Want an actual and simple fix to permastealth? Nerf the stealth duration from smoke combo finishers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Still in favor of a system where for every second you are in stealth, you cant stealth for a second (debuff that cannot be negated). Adds up over time, doesnt matter if in combat or not.

So if a thief want to stealth for a minute, he can... but as soon as he no longer stealth or attack, he cant stealth for a minute.

Which should be capped to some maximum!If a thief can stealth for 10 minutes straight, great what a pro dagger leaper. But he then cant stealth for 10 minutes lol. And the debuff would of course remain even if you log out (like food, not like boons).

The point is to weigh the time you are in stealth vs the cost. So I would argue no cap for such an idea.

Okay. EZ. Stealth, set portal, run out of keep, wait out the invis penalty, port back in, repeat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Change stealth while inside enemy towers/keeps/castles into the treasure mushroom stealth.

You are technically stealthed, meaning that you get the benefits of traits/stealth attacks/etc. But you stay visible for the enemy players and can get targeted, so you can't hide to teleport enemies in once people have left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

perma stealth is a good valid content for specific class. Can it be improved to keep invisible more logner ? Ofc yes. Because now you nees actively press buttons to keep it. Aslo some damage can be increased for thief, for help more faster kill someone near blob, and run after.

More better have one buton - press is - and be in stealth all time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...