perm stealth

[Caedmon.6798]

On 5/1/2021 at 11:10 PM, apharma.3741 said:

It's fun reading some of these gymnastics from everyone. Answer simple questions.

 

Should any class be able to sit in stealth for prolonged periods (>6s) of time? No.

 

Is having an enemy hopping in and out of stealth every couple of seconds fun to fight for most people? No

 

Does this really turn people off from the game? Yes.

 

Doesn't matter if it's a ranger, thief, mesmer or guard, non of this is good for the game and stealth needs to change.

Blobs having perm reflect/projectile destroys/heals/cleanses,but no no,that solo thief is the issue in a 50v50v50 gamemode. Or are we gonna pretend you all roam solo ? 😆

Edited May 7, 2021 by Caedmon.6798

[Aeolus.3615]

7 hours ago, Caedmon.6798 said:

Blobs having perm reflect/projectile destroys/heals/cleanses,but no no,that solo thief is the issue in a 50v50v50 gamemode. Or are we gonna pretend you all roam solo ? 😆

 

No... only thiefs have that! its all thiefs fault!, i know they also have zergs when they stleath!

 

On a more slightly serious note thief  gameplay is less rogue and  more assassin alike :\ they should rename the class to feel better for its intent to PK role,  if the class was called assassin people would respect more in fights, and wold not OMFGroflcopterbadgame i died to a thief.

 

Losing a 1 vs 1 with a thief... its the thief role to excell in most situations.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Telgum.6071]

11 hours ago, jemdarr.2158 said:

That is the most uneducated thing I ever read on this forum

 

DE can be played successfully with 1 hand. 

Yeah...

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Here is the solution.

 

Give thief 0 stealth. Give ele 0 damage.

 

Problem solved.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

1 hour ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Here is the solution.

 

Give thief 0 stealth. Give ele 0 damage.

 

Problem solved.

Core ele already is garbage damage

[Sobx.1758]

13 hours ago, jemdarr.2158 said:

That is the worst and most uneducated thing I ever read on this forum. If thief would take half the effort to master as elementalist does we wouldn't have a discussion about that on the forums.
Elementalist is, by far, the class with the hardest learning curve, while DE can be played successfully with 1 hand. 

Conveniently skipping rest of the post and the fact that the complaint it was responding to was... basically about using shadow refuge right before going down, lol.

[kash.9213]

14 hours ago, jemdarr.2158 said:

That is the worst and most uneducated thing I ever read on this forum. If thief would take half the effort to master as elementalist does we wouldn't have a discussion about that on the forums.
Elementalist is, by far, the class with the hardest learning curve, while DE can be played successfully with 1 hand. 

I'm sure you're joking but in WvW forum I can never be sure when something like that gets posted. 

It would be interesting to try to play DE with one hand. You'd probably not get to Stealth and Kneel at all though and that wouldn't be much fun but I'm sure an overpowered and easy to use DE, suggested by the word "successfully", would still clean up. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by kash.9213

[apharma.3741]

On 5/7/2021 at 9:38 AM, Caedmon.6798 said:

Blobs having perm reflect/projectile destroys/heals/cleanses,but no no,that solo thief is the issue in a 50v50v50 gamemode. Or are we gonna pretend you all roam solo ? 😆

Typical mental gymnastics and whataboutism.

 

All that stuff you mentioned isn't OK either but this is a topic about stealth, it doesn't matter what class it is, high stealth uptime and jumping in and out of it frequently is not good.

 

Just as the marked buff which cripples stealth reliant classes and renders certain traits useless is not OK, to answer your question yes I do roam solo on mesmer or ele usually.

[kiranslee.4829]

They would need to rework SA trait line and they dont care , same as they dont care for this broken uw skills and so on.

[apoko.5246]

On 4/6/2021 at 5:10 AM, Justine.6351 said:

How would you go about getting rid of it without getting rid of thief too? The less complicated the better. The less band aid the better.

The thief was never a perm stealth at the start only came in on an update, what is even worse is that they gave the perm stealth a port into towers and keeps now that is unreal

[Draeyon.4392]

Perma stealth thief isnt broken in terms of combat but their perma stealth + portal is a real problem for objectives.

 

A quick solution without breaking a class mechanic could be to give towers and smc the same treatment as keeps with a 5min reveal after flipping.

 

Another could be to allow smc and keeps to have the watchtower tactic though I would argue smc should only cover to the edge of the 3rd floor cannons.

 

 

If those aren't possible the shadow portal utility is what needs to be looks at (either only allow the thief to use it or make it a shadow step instead).

Edited May 8, 2021 by Draeyon.4392

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

1 hour ago, apoko.5246 said:

The thief was never a perm stealth at the start only came in on an update, what is even worse is that they gave the perm stealth a port into towers and keeps now that is unreal

Apart from the fact that thief absolutely could perma stealth in vanilla. I know because I was doing it lol 

[kash.9213]

On 5/8/2021 at 4:00 PM, apoko.5246 said:

The thief was never a perm stealth at the start only came in on an update, what is even worse is that they gave the perm stealth a port into towers and keeps now that is unreal

The port doesn't just get put on the ground and port you into places. The thief has to have been left a lone after a flip or failed take. I think that one Prep and that stage should have a duration that will be under pressure, but the rest is on all of the clowns who didn't bother to clean up and look around. 

[Caedmon.6798]

Theyve done nothin about the real issue in WvW which is the main reason AOE spamm is meta for years, Blocks,aegis shares/Reflect share/Projectile destroy share. The changes they made are Again,meaningless and made by an incompetent monkey not knowing his own game.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Caedmon.6798

[Erze.7253]

On 4/21/2021 at 6:13 AM, godz raiden.2631 said:

 

Is this literally a post suggesting that thieves should be nerfed if only because veteran thieves make new players feel poopy?

 

You know what else is uninteractive? When a ranger opens up on you with a longbow from 40 light years away and then once you put him on the back foot he goes invulnerable for 20 years.

 

And no, before you say it, I don’t have problems with rangers. The good ones are fun to fight, the majority of rangers are bad because the class attracts weirdos who want a pet friend in a video game. (I’m joking mostly, you rangers keep doing do you).

 

 

No, i was suggesting that Gw2 vets have sunken so much time into this game, that they often aren't objective about bad mechanics which hurt the game.Just like you instantly get defensive cause you think i just want to "nerf" your dear thief.Even tho i think it should be pretty clear for anynone that nobody really advocates to just tune down/remove stealth without changing talents and skills.There is a big difference between "nerfing" something (like turning down the numbers) and "reworking" something cause it's just not fun and limits the potential of the game.

There are literally people in this thread that have advocated for nerfing/removing stealth as it is without compensating thieves. People using the terminology “bring it in line” with other mechanics.

You’re probably right about a lot of us veteran thieves not wanting drastic changes to our class because of our time invested. For those of us playing since release that’s, what? 9 years off and on probably? I won’t apologize for not wanting a class I main to be changed after almost a decade to force me to relearn the class with new mechanics, or lack thereof.

Thief is already one of the most nerfed classes historically. It’s never enough for thief haters. Of course thief mains like myself get defensive. We’re sick of seeing the same nerf/rework requests on a regular basis, especially since those requests generally come from players who have very few hours on thief in WvW and don’t even understand how the class works. If you even read half of the arguments from players asking for thief nerfs you would realize they’re clueless as to what they’re talking about.

Reason I started playing this game is because another game's devs would listen to the loudest, not the most logical. I know that's a constant temptation, because devs like keeping their jobs, and louder means more, right? More players satisfied means jobs are safe, even if it means killing the 1% who loved whatever it is that was nerfed, and that is good from the dev's point of view.

 

As for thief, I play one irregularly. I don't pretend to know how it works. Usually I die pretty quick.

[jemdarr.2158]

On 5/7/2021 at 8:43 PM, Telgum.6071 said:

Yeah...

I may exaggerate a bit, but if someone tries to justify the unbalanced things his own class has by stating something stupid like that about the (most likely) hardest to master class in the game - which ele is without a doubt - I won't respond in a nice way.
And Ele is way less forgiving than any class that has access to stealth and keyboard smashing may help you beating your little brother in Tekken, but not on any Ele build out there.

 

back to topic I guess.

As someone already said. The SA trait line needs a serious rework. It it too mandatory and way to strong compared to other trait lines. Yes, you can skip it for having a harder time but that's not an excuse for broken traits like:
Shadows Embrace

Shadow Savior

and three really strong GM traits and very strong Minors.

 

[felix.2386]

they cant do anything to stealth, because stealth is built in thief, just like they cant remove scourge/fb from pve by deleting tome and scourge shroud, because tomes/scourge shroud are built in the classes.

 

and now people are kitten with stealth just like pve is kitten for having fb/scourge

and pvp is kitten for having scourge

Edited May 12, 2021 by felix.2386

[Telgum.6071]

On 5/12/2021 at 4:52 AM, jemdarr.2158 said:

I may exaggerate a bit, but if someone tries to justify the unbalanced things his own class has by stating something stupid like that about the (most likely) hardest to master class in the game - which ele is without a doubt - I won't respond in a nice way.
And Ele is way less forgiving than any class that has access to stealth and keyboard smashing may help you beating your little brother in Tekken, but not on any Ele build out there.

 

back to topic I guess.

As someone already said. The SA trait line needs a serious rework. It it too mandatory and way to strong compared to other trait lines. Yes, you can skip it for having a harder time but that's not an excuse for broken traits like:
Shadows Embrace

Shadow Savior

and three really strong GM traits and very strong Minors.

 

I don't justify nothing because stealth is not broken, I just find funny seeing an elementalist moaning about other classes being broken.

[AikijinX.6258]

 Seeing this thread live for 12 pages is annoying. I don’t know why this is still a top 3 thread. ( me bumping it to 1) but it just doesn’t make sense why people continue to talk about this. The same things have been said over and over. ANET will not gut stealth any further than they already have. 
 

They gave thieves evasion in the form of DrD, (Staff Jump 3 meta) but people had an uproar about that and honestly… understandable, because (staff jump 3) WAS aids, but the community still got upset because they couldn’t catch or touch us even when being able to SEE us, since utilizing stealth with that setup wasn’t really necessary and defeated the purpose of using staff and being a acrobatic DrD. Oh and don’t get me started on the ACRO trait line, that anet has since gutted. “There is too much evasion on land and too much evasion underwater for thieves”,  this is also another thing I hear all the time. Too much stealth, too much evasion, too much mobility, too many ports (not to mention portal). What do you want from a medium armor, low base hp, high risk, high reward type of class. (and yes Thief is a high risk type of class, to those arguing there’s very low risk to thief game play, play one)

I hate to be that guy to say this, because I hate saying this rhetoric but this is a L2P (learn to play) issue.
 

People Fear what they cannot see. People Complain about what they do not know. 
 

Potentially our new specialization could be in the form of a boon spec, what’s it going to be then? Thief can generate too many boons as well as steal and take them away?

Edited May 18, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[Svarty.8019]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:33 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Still in favor of a system where for every second you are in stealth, you cant stealth for a second (debuff that cannot be negated). Adds up over time, doesnt matter if in combat or not.

So if a thief want to stealth for a minute, he can... but as soon as he no longer stealth or attack, he cant stealth for a minute.

So they just hang about near doors like the rest of us? Scared to come out of objectives for fear of another thief hiding nearby?

[Caedmon.6798]

Why you people so set on deleting those few solo thieves ? Your 50v50v50 game mode is garbage enough as it is already.

I havent logged in like 3 - 4 months, the few times i do ive had enough after 30 min till an hour as a Solo Thief. Because of all the garbage sustain groups running around with no counter besides throwing more people at them which only got worse and is only getting worse,something that requires no skill while that solo thief has to use everything he got to try and take someone down in a group like that. I honestly dont get you people and how easy you want this game mode to be. You want to be able to have one hand in your dorito's bag while controlling your char with the other pressing random buttons and be A-Ok.  But when youre not paying attention or have no clue about how to counter a thief you all scream how Op thief is but never look at how bad you are as a player yourself with all the counters you have available that you arent using or when being focused by a thief in your group you run in a straight line back to your group while pressing every util you have available without trying to counter back,and then when you die..."Thief Is Op",but it's never "I need to get better".

Edited May 14, 2021 by Caedmon.6798

[schokelmei.8271]

Only because you don't enjoy 50v50 doesn't mean that it's ok there is your niché that doesn't need balancing. And thieves still need balancing.

And if you don't log in anyway, why do you care discussing?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

16 hours ago, Caedmon.6798 said:

Why you people so set on deleting those few solo thieves ? Your 50v50v50 game mode is garbage enough as it is already.

I havent logged in like 3 - 4 months, the few times i do ive had enough after 30 min till an hour as a Solo Thief. Because of all the garbage sustain groups running around with no counter besides throwing more people at them which only got worse and is only getting worse,something that requires no skill while that solo thief has to use everything he got to try and take someone down in a group like that. I honestly dont get you people and how easy you want this game mode to be. You want to be able to have one hand in your dorito's bag while controlling your char with the other pressing random buttons and be A-Ok.  But when youre not paying attention or have no clue about how to counter a thief you all scream how Op thief is but never look at how bad you are as a player yourself with all the counters you have available that you arent using or when being focused by a thief in your group you run in a straight line back to your group while pressing every util you have available without trying to counter back,and then when you die..."Thief Is Op",but it's never "I need to get better".

Cuz their upset a class that due to its design is great at roaming and not zerging keeps killing their zerg class/build. 2nd players think of themselves only in most situations and if they mostly zerg they consider that the only appropriate playstyle in wvw, rest is just a nuisance that should be avoided or deleted, then they whine population is low.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[schokelmei.8271]

"Great at roaming" like Scourge over a year ago was "great at zerging" is a nice way to say "it's completely broken". Stealth is a broken mechanic for almost 9 years now and with the toolkit of thieves it makes it a broken class.
And the majority knows that for years, most are just tired arguing with people that like you, because it's worthless. Still doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed.

[kash.9213]

On 5/14/2021 at 11:29 PM, gebrechen.5643 said:

"Great at roaming" like Scourge over a year ago was "great at zerging" is a nice way to say "it's completely broken". Stealth is a broken mechanic for almost 9 years now and with the toolkit of thieves it makes it a broken class.
And the majority knows that for years, most are just tired arguing with people that like you, because it's worthless. Still doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed.

No, those are two different things.

 

Stealth is fine, you need to look at traits and kits. If you refuse to do that and just ask for general nerfs to a class because you don't like that class, that says everything we need to know about your argument, or lack of one. If you're not going to take this discussion seriously and are going to act like an infant you should just duck out and leave everyone else to it, these threads are spammed enough.