How to Fix Heal Revenant

[Infusion.7149]

Two months later you bump this , rename it to "WvW focus", and you still didn't address the #1 problem with Ventari in competitive modes: lack of stunbreak. That's one of the first things I mentioned here too.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Two months later you bump this , rename it to "WvW focus", and you still didn't address the #1 problem with Ventari in competitive modes: lack of stunbreak. That's one of the first things I mentioned here too.

 

I mean at this point though I don't really believe that is the #1 issue. I still think it could be implemented though, sure. It would only make sense on Purifying Essence and they could bump it up to 30 energy. And yes I put WvW focus because I havent PvP'd seriously since the first season of PoF, and I am not a high end PvE'r--I basically just do open world stuff and strikes (would like to get more into raids though). I don't want to pretend I know all the answers for that stuff since it is more meta-specific. 

[LadyHawk.5319]

The ridiculous added 3 sec cd when moving the tablet needs to be removed.

 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

2 hours ago, LadyHawk.5319 said:

The ridiculous added 3 sec cd when moving the tablet needs to be removed.

 

 

Yeah, I agree that it is a large part of what makes the tablet feel clunky. Playing an alac Rene build with Ventari makes the tablet feel a lot smoother because of the reduced CD, which is why I suggested to bring down the CD to 2 seconds. Considering it still costs 5 energy to use, I don't think there would  be any major overperformance issues.

[Caeledh.5437]

I haven't played GW2 seriously for ages and with two out of two revenant elite specs pooping on the promise and fun of the base profession, don't have a lot of hope for rev.

 

That said....

 

Going from my old experience and having checked the wiki see what has changed - not much, I would make a few relatively small changes.

 

Energy Expulsion

 

Make it a toggle like most of the other legend elites. With aoe healing power and expense comparable to existing Natural Harmony, i.e. it's good for slow, moderate healing. But being a toggle, you don't need to button mash it.

 

Natural Harmony

 

Boost it's power and energy cost so it can serve as an emergency burst heal.

 

Purifying Essence

 

Remove or reduce the cooldown. Presumably the existing cleanse capacity of Energy Expulsion exists so revs can purge more frequently than every 5 seconds if they need to. Removing or reducing the cooldown could achieve the same effect.

 

And try to remember one of the potential big appeals of revenant, which unfortunately the game doesn't live up to, is elegant simplicity.

 

With the majority of other profession abilities constrained by cooldowns, commonly many abilities have multiple functions so that potentially players could fire off 6 completely different abilities which immersively or frequently not all, have a cleanse effect attached.

 

Being resource driven, revenant abilities could simply perform as advertised. Much more immersive.

 

_________________________

 

Part of me wouldn't hate seeing Ventari abilities get some more offensive capabilities rather than being pigeonholed for just healing, but being resource driven, even ignoring legend swap, revs can camp Ventari and throw all of their energy into weapon attacks.

 

And Ventari was a major peace nut.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ventari

 

It feels authentic for his legend abilities to be purely healing and protective.

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

On 6/25/2021 at 5:34 PM, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

Yeah, I agree that it is a large part of what makes the tablet feel clunky. Playing an alac Rene build with Ventari makes the tablet feel a lot smoother because of the reduced CD, which is why I suggested to bring down the CD to 2 seconds. Considering it still costs 5 energy to use, I don't think there would  be any major overperformance issues.

I would be interested in changing it to a ammo mechanic. So you would have 2-3 charges on a 3s cool down. I know there’d be some trait interactions and number tweaks to be done if you swap it over to ammo. However, I think it’d feel way less clunky. You could have the tablet move around much more frequently, and imagine being able to course correct it mid flight when your allies are doing a better job dodging the tablet than the obvious aoes.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

4 hours ago, Caeledh.5437 said:

I haven't played GW2 seriously for ages and with two out of two revenant elite specs pooping on the promise and fun of the base profession, don't have a lot of hope for rev.

 

That said....

 

Going from my old experience and having checked the wiki see what has changed - not much, I would make a few relatively small changes.

 

Energy Expulsion

 

Make it a toggle like most of the other legend elites. With aoe healing power and expense comparable to existing Natural Harmony, i.e. it's good for slow, moderate healing. But being a toggle, you don't need to button mash it.

 

Natural Harmony

 

Boost it's power and energy cost so it can serve as an emergency burst heal.

 

Purifying Essence

 

Remove or reduce the cooldown. Presumably the existing cleanse capacity of Energy Expulsion exists so revs can purge more frequently than every 5 seconds if they need to. Removing or reducing the cooldown could achieve the same effect.

 

And try to remember one of the potential big appeals of revenant, which unfortunately the game doesn't live up to, is elegant simplicity.

 

With the majority of other profession abilities constrained by cooldowns, commonly many abilities have multiple functions so that potentially players could fire off 6 completely different abilities which immersively or frequently not all, have a cleanse effect attached. Personally I think a 5s cooldown is a healthy duration for a legend skill and I am grateful that h

 

Being resource driven, revenant abilities could simply perform as advertised. Much more immersive.

 

_________________________

 

Part of me wouldn't hate seeing Ventari abilities get some more offensive capabilities rather than being pigeonholed for just healing, but being resource driven, even ignoring legend swap, revs can camp Ventari and throw all of their energy into weapon attacks.

 

And Ventari was a major peace nut.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ventari

 

It feels authentic for his legend abilities to be purely healing and protective.

 

 

What exactly do you mean by Energy Expulsion becoming a toggle? Like it knocking back and cleansing 1 condi AoE each second? Or are you saying it should heal instead? Another way of healing surely would be nice, but the knockback is integral to its self-defense and is incredibly underrated in its general application. I would hate to see it go (though the pathetic knockback distance in PvP makes me cry). Honestly Facet of Nature - Centaur accomplished exactly this *beautifully*, but not so much post-big balance patch. Also ANet's design intention seems to be that every legend get a CC, as was made evident with their Mallyx rework. If they did get EE reworked to your idea, the kit would for sure need a stunbreak. I would prefer to have the elite stay as is, but perhaps they could implement something in Ancient Echo to have it pulse out healing over 3s?

 

Natural Harmony doesn't feel too great anymore in PvP/WvW...in my honest (biased) opinion it was overnerfed between the coefficient nerf and the Salvation modifier nerfs. I just wish they'd increase the overall healing by ~20%. 

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with Purifying Essence's cooldown. You have other ways of managing conditions on yourself and allies, such as staff, blast finishers with Protective Solace, and Energy Expulsion. In general, I would say that Ventari handles conditions quite well. It's not Scrapper-level busted or quite on the level of a Fire Tempest, but it does quite a great job, especially for its cleanse being concentrated to one legend. 

 

Yeah, I feel conflicted about Ventari's role/theme a bit too. Like, I really do appreciate how it feels true to its theme and it is my favorite legend, but to me it feels so incredibly disjointed from the rest of the class. It's like you are playing Revenant with all the other legends, and then when you play Ventari you are playing two classes simultaneously. It's part of the appeal to me, but it also causes the legend to suffer. I have my own partially fleshed out vision of how to completely rework the it and make it more streamlined to the rest of the class, but I would still rather see the legend get some more polish to it, as that is IMO all the legend specifically needs (which is why my changes were moreso directed at other parts of Rev). 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

32 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I would be interested in changing it to a ammo mechanic. So you would have 2-3 charges on a 3s cool down. I know there’d be some trait interactions and number tweaks to be done if you swap it over to ammo. However, I think it’d feel way less clunky. You could have the tablet move around much more frequently, and imagine being able to course correct it mid flight when your allies are doing a better job dodging the tablet than the obvious aoes.

 

That is honestly a really cool idea. I had never even considered such a thing but it's a really smart way of approaching it without giving it totally free-form no-CD movement. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

[Infusion.7149]

2 hours ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I would be interested in changing it to a ammo mechanic. So you would have 2-3 charges on a 3s cool down. I know there’d be some trait interactions and number tweaks to be done if you swap it over to ammo. However, I think it’d feel way less clunky. You could have the tablet move around much more frequently, and imagine being able to course correct it mid flight when your allies are doing a better job dodging the tablet than the obvious aoes.

I honestly like this solution but as you said some traits might need an internal cooldown due to the interactions. Even with ammo it still has resource usage (5 energy) however.
The trait mainly of concern for competitive is the blind from blinding truths, as battle scarred does very little damage outside PvE.

What could be the tradeoff for elite specs is you get fewer baseline charges maybe (3 for core rev , 2 for herald and renegade)? Perhaps an additional charge with salvation traitline could be helpful too.

The most common use I have for moving tablet consecutively in PvE fractals is at uncategorized fractal stairway , without alacrity it is incredibly annoying. While it can be used at Molten Furnace if people stack then you don't need to move it often. In Snowblind for example you just keep it up at the elemental.

---
As for the topic: with the soulcleave nerf in place, elevated compassion on herald needs to be stellar (so you heal and provide might and some alacrity) or you just need to do role compression providing alacrity+ healing somehow. Soulcleave was listed as increased by +50% but there's an anomaly in that it was 250% after the nerf to 1s internal cooldown so it may be workable.

On scourge you can put out around 180 barrier per second while running full DPS except for using desert empowerment and additional ~360 barrier per second with Sand Cascade.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[ArthurDent.9538]

One change I think would make ventari game play a lot more viable and keep it interesting would be to let natural harmony and purifying essence (and maybe ventari's will) heal/cleanse the user even if they aren't near the tablet. I think the whole mechanic of moving the tablet around to heal all your allies is really cool but it leaves the user super vulnerable which begs  the obvious solution to just have everyone stack on node. Then either the healing is enough and it's a viable but boring spam fest, or it isn't enough and it just isn't viable which seems to be how it is now though maybe support players will start picking it up. Allowing the user to get benefits from the tablet without being next to it allows the user to kite around and focus on healing their allies while not leaving themselves completely defenseless and allowing for more than stack on point and spam playstyle.

[Caeledh.5437]

17 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

What exactly do you mean by Energy Expulsion becoming a toggle? Like it knocking back and cleansing 1 condi AoE each second? Or are you saying it should heal instead? Another way of healing surely would be nice, but the knockback is integral to its self-defense and is incredibly underrated in its general application.

 

Yes just a heal. That's what I said.

 

22 hours ago, Caeledh.5437 said:

Energy Expulsion

 

Make it a toggle like most of the other legend elites. With aoe healing power and expense comparable to existing Natural Harmony, i.e. it's good for slow, moderate healing. But being a toggle, you don't need to button mash it.

 

I think that both in PvP and PvE, Ventari would benefit from having a moderate strength toggle aoe heal - so you don't need to repeatedly button mash - and a stronger, most expensive instant burst heal.

 

Realistically if you want knockback the place where it would make the most sense is Protective Solace. As you toggle the shield on, it pushing away enemies would make total sense, right?

 

Though personally I'd prefer some other use for that. It's one of the prettiest abilities in the game but largely useless in open world content.

 

17 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

That is honestly a really cool idea. I had never even considered such a thing but it's a really smart way of approaching it without giving it totally free-form no-CD movement. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

 

No. The ammo mechanic is fundamentally abhorrent.

 

ANet appears to have created it Revenant as a bridge between thieves and other professions. Because there'd be many players who strongly prefer the freedom of a resource mechanic over cooldowns and only play thieves.  Come play revenant with fewer but still some cooldowns. Love it - cos everyone will love everything we make - and then you'll play other professions too.

 

Adding cooldowns to some legend utilities post launch.

 

And cramming many cooldowns into both rev elite legends.

 

Ugh.

 

The ammo system is attacking this from the other end.

 

Thief weapon skills have never had any cooldowns. ANet shoved one of these cooldown lite ammos into their second elite spec.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kneel

 

Sufficiently unpopular that half a year later they removed it.

 

ANet putting even a single ammo ability into Revenant would be the end of them.

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

3 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

One change I think would make ventari game play a lot more viable and keep it interesting would be to let natural harmony and purifying essence (and maybe ventari's will) heal/cleanse the user even if they aren't near the tablet. I think the whole mechanic of moving the tablet around to heal all your allies is really cool but it leaves the user super vulnerable which begs  the obvious solution to just have everyone stack on node. Then either the healing is enough and it's a viable but boring spam fest, or it isn't enough and it just isn't viable which seems to be how it is now though maybe support players will start picking it up. Allowing the user to get benefits from the tablet without being next to it allows the user to kite around and focus on healing their allies while not leaving themselves completely defenseless and allowing for more than stack on point and spam playstyle.

I thought about that too. It’d be nice to get 1 for 1 off those 2 utilities and have the QoL and freedom to never have to let it come back to you, unless stacking. Certainly make some things much easier to pull off. 
 

The other way that might be an interesting change, gameplay wise, is to make you and your tablet function like a pseudo scourge shade. Meaning you and your tablet are separate entities that can both interact with 5 players. Numbers would need to be tweaked, but you can either have a 50/50 split in values or possibly a 66/33 split and have the rev be a “lesser tablet”.  So yes while your split from your tablet. The heals aren’t as strong (granted if you’re full heal rev most of the time you’re over healing by the thousands) but you’re healing 2 groups. And you still have that big over the top heal if you move it back onto where you and your group is stacked. 
 

I think it’s a nice bridge between the moving tablet and the idea to be able to carry the tablet on your back. The only skill that concerns me and would need a change on the rev’s body is protective solace. Would be aids having 2 projectile absorbs out at the same time. (Possibly a change to the knock back on elite too. Aoe daze around the rev possibly)

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

36 minutes ago, Caeledh.5437 said:

No. The ammo mechanic is fundamentally abhorrent.

 

ANet appears to have created it Revenant as a bridge between thieves and other professions. Because there'd be many players who strongly prefer the freedom of a resource mechanic over cooldowns and only play thieves.  Come play revenant with fewer but still some cooldowns. Love it - cos everyone will love everything we make - and then you'll play other professions too.

 

Adding cooldowns to some legend utilities post launch.

 

And cramming many cooldowns into both rev elite legends.

 

Ugh.

 

The ammo system is attacking this from the other end.

 

Thief weapon skills have never had any cooldowns. ANet shoved one of these cooldown lite ammos into their second elite spec.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kneel

 

Sufficiently unpopular that half a year later they removed it.

 

ANet putting even a single ammo ability into Revenant would be the end of them.

I mean at this point Rev is so far away from the original, low cooldown, energy management play style that I’d argue that it’s a class with 2 cooldown requirements. You might aswell go the direction that anet is going and add their favorite ammo mechanic. I mean they certainly aren’t going to go backwards and revert their class development, even if they developed it the wrong way since day one. I wish for a day where they take energy off our weapons and take all cool downs off the utilities and balance those energy costs. So we end up as a reverse thief, but I doubt that’ll happen. 

[Caeledh.5437]

1 minute ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I mean at this point Rev is so far away from the original, low cooldown, energy management play style that I’d argue that it’s a class with 2 cooldown requirements. You might aswell go the direction that anet is going and add their favorite ammo mechanic.

 

The whole point of revenant appears to be to act as a bridge for thieves - who so resoundingly rejected the intrusion of the ammo mechanic into their profession, that ANet eventually removed it from the offending ability.

 

Shove the ammo system into revenant and it's the end of that diabolical scheme.

 

And there are still players like me who love the style and promise of base revenant but hate where ANet are trying to drag them.

 

Shove the ammo system into revenant and it'd be a death knell.

[Infusion.7149]

7 hours ago, Caeledh.5437 said:

 

The whole point of revenant appears to be to act as a bridge for thieves - who so resoundingly rejected the intrusion of the ammo mechanic into their profession, that ANet eventually removed it from the offending ability.

 

Shove the ammo system into revenant and it's the end of that diabolical scheme.

 

And there are still players like me who love the style and promise of base revenant but hate where ANet are trying to drag them.

 

Shove the ammo system into revenant and it'd be a death knell.

Utilities on thieves still have cooldowns so your rant makes no sense to me. Unless your argument is to remove all weapon skill cooldowns on revs and make it an energy management class?

Many PUG revenants don't seem to manage energy well so cooldowns help with that because you won't spam weapon skills as much.

[Caeledh.5437]

22 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Utilities on thieves still have cooldowns so your rant makes no sense to me. Unless your argument is to remove all weapon skill cooldowns on revs and make it an energy management class?

Many PUG revenants don't seem to manage energy well so cooldowns help with that because you won't spam weapon skills as much.

 

Signet (passives) don't have cooldowns. So yes, you can play thieves almost entirely cooldown free. There's just the heal - which if you play well enough you rarely need to use anyway. And the elite, which doesn't need to be used except for the rare boss fight or group content.

 

And yes, I'd LOVE for revenant weapon abilities to be cooldown free and just use energy. That would be brilliant but is sadly extremely unlikely to happen.

 

22 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Many PUG revenants don't seem to manage energy well so cooldowns help with that because you won't spam weapon skills as much.

 

Even if we generously accept your first assertion as true, no, cooldowns don't help at all.

 

They just reduce the game to playing cooldown whack-a-mole with the UI.

 

It's not so bad with open world content and quick and easy fights, but in longer fights which are common in group content, the tedium sets in fast.

[Infusion.7149]

Cooldowns give you a reference point for when you last used a skill.
Also renegade is basically opposite to daredevil, as you don't want to dodge and utilities and citadel bombardment do more damage than weapon spam.

[Caeledh.5437]

53 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Cooldowns give you a reference point for when you last used a skill.

 

False.

 

Cooldowns restrict how often you can use a skill

 

And essentially dictate a predetermined rotation of abilities which are optimal.

 

Seriously good for you if you enjoy them. I don't and never will.

 

55 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Also renegade is basically opposite to daredevil, as you don't want to dodge and utilities and citadel bombardment do more damage than weapon spam.

 

We were talking thief and revenant, not daredevil and renegade. But anyway...

 

On paper it can look like thief is opposite to revenant because thieves have CD free weapon abilities + utilities with CDs and revenants have weapon abilities with CDs and many utilities without, but because revenant is so inconsistent in this regard with legendary utilities (eg. renegage only has a single CD free legendary) and because of their get-free-energy-on-legend-swap ridiculousness, no it doesn't work out like that.

 

Signet thief isn't manically swapping weapons / legends as often as possible because energy refill. Or like most other professions (including rev) in the game, weapon swapping to take maximum advantage of big attacks on long cooldowns.

 

You just play, using whichever of your current 5 weapon abilities makes the most sense right now. And swap weapons only if that makes sense right now and it's not on cooldown.

 

It's a different experience.

[Caeledh.5437]

18 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Cooldowns give you a reference point for when you last used a skill.

 

On second thoughts, I remembered a timely example of how you're wrong.

 

This event, both out in the stampede and in the instanced boss thingy, you know what I've seen a lot?

 

Players throwing down lots of fields around mobs, and then other players knocking mobs safely out of those fields. Safely for the mobs, not players.

 

Repeatedly.

 

Do you think they're trolling? Or compassionately trying to save the mobs?

 

Nope.

 

They're in frenzied cooldown whack-a-mole mode because that's what GW2's gameplay largely boils down to.

 

Knowing the game for what it is, I don't get bothered or frustrated. Those players are just playing the game that was made for them. 

[Infusion.7149]

21 hours ago, Caeledh.5437 said:

 

False.

 

Cooldowns restrict how often you can use a skill

 

And essentially dictate a predetermined rotation of abilities which are optimal.

 

Seriously good for you if you enjoy them. I don't and never will.

 

 

We were talking thief and revenant, not daredevil and renegade. But anyway...

 

On paper it can look like thief is opposite to revenant because thieves have CD free weapon abilities + utilities with CDs and revenants have weapon abilities with CDs and many utilities without, but because revenant is so inconsistent in this regard with legendary utilities (eg. renegage only has a single CD free legendary) and because of their get-free-energy-on-legend-swap ridiculousness, no it doesn't work out like that.

 

Signet thief isn't manically swapping weapons / legends as often as possible because energy refill. Or like most other professions (including rev) in the game, weapon swapping to take maximum advantage of big attacks on long cooldowns.

 

You just play, using whichever of your current 5 weapon abilities makes the most sense right now. And swap weapons only if that makes sense right now and it's not on cooldown.

 

It's a different experience.

They're not going to change it just because of someone's opinion that doesn't reflect that of the entire playerbase. Revenant has had cooldowns since its inception. They also don't balance around openworld.

PvP thief uses only signet of agility and in WVW it is similar , whereas condi deadeye doesn't use signets. So the argument that thieves have no cooldowns on utilities because they use signets is kind of lopsided unless you are only talking about one build in PVE, in which the assassin signet is also used for a burst window (similar to Sic Em or Burst of Strength).

I don't know what you mean by "renegage only has a single CD free legendary" , if you mean Soulcleave has no cooldown (which it does, it's 3 seconds) and everything else on Kalla does, it's because Soulcleave has an upkeep cost and an energy cost (similar to impossible odds which has no cooldown whereas every skill on the other legends do if they have low energy cost). Renegade in WVW/PVP doesn't run Kalla so one legend doesn't make the whole spec relegated to cooldowns.

P.S. the only classes that have a legitimate use for knockback are longbow ranger against a breakbar in fractals due to marksmanship's Predator's Onslaught and any quickness scrapper running blast gyro (for quickness when traited with Kinetic Accelerators).
 

4 hours ago, Caeledh.5437 said:

 

On second thoughts, I remembered a timely example of how you're wrong.

 

This event, both out in the stampede and in the instanced boss thingy, you know what I've seen a lot?

 

Players throwing down lots of fields around mobs, and then other players knocking mobs safely out of those fields. Safely for the mobs, not players.

 

Repeatedly.

 

Do you think they're trolling? Or compassionately trying to save the mobs?

 

Nope.

 

They're in frenzied cooldown whack-a-mole mode because that's what GW2's gameplay largely boils down to.

 

Knowing the game for what it is, I don't get bothered or frustrated. Those players are just playing the game that was made for them. 

[Caeledh.5437]

On 7/8/2021 at 2:07 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

Revenant has had cooldowns since its inception. 

 

You work for them do you?

 

Meanwhile there's reality.

 

https://www.polygon.com/features/2015/2/18/8061219/guild-wars-2-profession-reveal-revenant-pc-mmo-arenanet

 

When they first revealed them, there wasn't ANY mention of cooldowns. They were revealed as using energy.

 

"Along with swapping between legends, the revenant profession will employ a second new mechanic that distances it from any other profession currently in the game: energy. In yet another callback to the first Guild Wars, all of the revenant's skills — both weapon and legend skills — will use a portion of the character's energy bar. While other classes only need to wait for a cooldown to reuse skills, revenants will need to wait for their energy bar to refill over time."

 

Just need to wait for energy. No mention of CDs.

 

Notice the UI screenshot. No sign of CDs there for either weapons or legend utilities.

 

In fact, they describe one weapon ability in detail - Field of Mists - and they say it's a toggle.

 

"That focus on range is also seen in Field of Mists, an upkeep skill that's exclusive to hammer-wielding revenants. When active, this skill will place a wall in front of the character that blocks incoming projectiles and moves with them."

 

After having described upkeep skills as:

 

"You make the choice to toggle it on, and while it's up it lowers your base energy regeneration," Cronacher says. "If your base regen is five energy per second and a skill costs seven in upkeep, it'll put you to negative two energy per second. So you're actually losing energy over time while the skill is active. You have the choice of leaving it active and running out of energy, or you can toggle into a new legend at any time. It offers a lot of freedom to players."

 

i.e. weapon abilities will not have cooldowns!

 

There was no mention of legend swap cooldown.

 

"For example, Peters says the revenant will be able to use its currently-selected healing skill, then swap to its other equipped legend and use that legend's healing skill immediately."

 

Also....

 

Cronacher says this is the perfect way to get enemies positioned into a line in order to maximize the impact of other attacks. However, it won't help with the aforementioned mace skill; since revenants can swap legends at any time, they will not be able to swap between two weapon types on the fly.

 

Can swap legends at any time.

 

We know they didn't have weapon swap cooldown. Because as detailed in the previous quote, like ele and engi they could only equip one. That was later added after testing feedback that many players felt that their legendary abilities alone didn't offer enough flexibility to deal with a ranged opponent while the rev was wielding a melee weapon.

[Infusion.7149]

2 hours ago, Caeledh.5437 said:

 

You work for them do you?

 

Meanwhile there's reality.

 

https://www.polygon.com/features/2015/2/18/8061219/guild-wars-2-profession-reveal-revenant-pc-mmo-arenanet

 

When they first revealed them, there wasn't ANY mention of cooldowns. They were revealed as using energy.

 

"Along with swapping between legends, the revenant profession will employ a second new mechanic that distances it from any other profession currently in the game: energy. In yet another callback to the first Guild Wars, all of the revenant's skills — both weapon and legend skills — will use a portion of the character's energy bar. While other classes only need to wait for a cooldown to reuse skills, revenants will need to wait for their energy bar to refill over time."

 

Just need to wait for energy. No mention of CDs.

 

Notice the UI screenshot. No sign of CDs there for either weapons or legend utilities.

 

In fact, they describe one weapon ability in detail - Field of Mists - and they say it's a toggle.

 

"That focus on range is also seen in Field of Mists, an upkeep skill that's exclusive to hammer-wielding revenants. When active, this skill will place a wall in front of the character that blocks incoming projectiles and moves with them."

 

After having described upkeep skills as:

 

"You make the choice to toggle it on, and while it's up it lowers your base energy regeneration," Cronacher says. "If your base regen is five energy per second and a skill costs seven in upkeep, it'll put you to negative two energy per second. So you're actually losing energy over time while the skill is active. You have the choice of leaving it active and running out of energy, or you can toggle into a new legend at any time. It offers a lot of freedom to players."

 

i.e. weapon abilities will not have cooldowns!

 

There was no mention of legend swap cooldown.

 

"For example, Peters says the revenant will be able to use its currently-selected healing skill, then swap to its other equipped legend and use that legend's healing skill immediately."

 

Also....

 

Cronacher says this is the perfect way to get enemies positioned into a line in order to maximize the impact of other attacks. However, it won't help with the aforementioned mace skill; since revenants can swap legends at any time, they will not be able to swap between two weapon types on the fly.

 

Can swap legends at any time.

 

We know they didn't have weapon swap cooldown. Because as detailed in the previous quote, like ele and engi they could only equip one. That was later added after testing feedback that many players felt that their legendary abilities alone didn't offer enough flexibility to deal with a ranged opponent while the rev was wielding a melee weapon.

At its launch in HoT it had cooldowns. Just look at any skill version history.

 

If its concept had no cooldowns, it is rather clear that the cooldowns were added for balance reasons.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

On 7/5/2021 at 4:44 PM, Caeledh.5437 said:

 

The whole point of revenant appears to be to act as a bridge for thieves - who so resoundingly rejected the intrusion of the ammo mechanic into their profession, that ANet eventually removed it from the offending ability.

 

Shove the ammo system into revenant and it's the end of that diabolical scheme.

 

And there are still players like me who love the style and promise of base revenant but hate where ANet are trying to drag them.

 

Shove the ammo system into revenant and it'd be a death knell.

 

Meh, I disagree with you. If anything, the ammo system brings it closer to an initiative-like system because it allows for more frequent usage without completely abandoning the implementation of cooldowns. With that said, Ventari's Will is one of the very few skills on Rev (perhaps the only) that I think this would work on.

 

 Let's be honest with ourselves: many legend skills in their current forms just straight up would not work with no cooldowns. Almost every single utility skill is incredibly strong, especially the ones with a higher CD. Like, imagine the implications behind some of the skills not having cooldowns anymore. Phase Traversal has already gone down that road. Some of the Kalla skills? Yeah no thanks. What about the heal skills (minus Ventari?) And how exactly would you suggest Glint work without cooldowns? Skills would need to be significantly nerfed and altered--and straight up reworked in many cases--in order to adapt to a massive change like what you are suggesting. Cooldowns are healthy for the game, and just because Rev has cooldowns on some (most) of its skills doesn't mean that the class is on the path of self-destruction. Cooldowns have also given space for certain skills to maintain their power without a high energy cost, such as Forced Engagement, a change that has benefitted Jalis as a whole. 

 

And this is just legend skills we are talking about. Imagine perma-chaining staff 5 as a core Rev with Charged Mists. Sevenshotting people over and over again? Like, that would just be stupid to play as and play against. So much of the class would have to be reworked in order to adapt to the total abandonment of cooldowns. There has been almost 6 years of iteration for this. 

 

To add: It was mostly mentioned by another user, but I strongly disagree with the notion that weapon skills should not have energy costs. Personally, I find it increases the skill cap of the class as you have to think about the impact all of your skills will have on your energy pool. It is far superior design in my eyes. The class is not an "inverse Thief," it is its own class with a class mechanic that shares similarities but still functions very differently.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do disagree with some of the changes that ANet has made. I am very critical of quite a few of their decisions, particularly the ones in sPvP, but I am very happy with the overall way they have approached the balance between energy and cooldowns. 

[Caeledh.5437]

On 7/11/2021 at 1:30 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

At its launch in HoT it had cooldowns. Just look at any skill version history.

 

Shifting the goalpost? Super weak.

 

Cooldowns were not a part of their original design, as revealed to us.

 

[Caeledh.5437]

On 7/11/2021 at 3:46 AM, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

Let's be honest with ourselves: many legend skills in their current forms just straight up would not work with no cooldowns.

 

Cheers for my first laugh out loud moment for the day.

 

Seriously.

 

Obviously they would work just fine without cooldowns.