Gw2 DX12pxy needs to be implemented directly

[Infusion.7149]

@"The Boz.2038" said:16GB, Samsung Evo SSD.https://lutris.net/games/guild-wars-2/As seen on Lutris database , recommended settings are

• Frame limit: 60 (unless you are on > 60 Hz monitor this is a recommended setting)
• Animation : medium
• AA : SMAA low
• Environment : medium
• LOD distance : medium
• reflections : terrain & sky --- you can turn this off completely
• textures: medium
• render sampling: native
• shadows : none --- CPU bound
• shaders: medium
• post processing: low --- you can turn this off to avoid the insane amount of bloom
• character model limit : lowest --- CPU bound (Umbra culling)
• character model quality : low --- partly CPU bound
• Effect LOD checked off --- turns off all the extra flashing effects
• Motion blur set to left side (off)

You can experiment a bit , but generally model limit and reflections/shadows are the most impactful.

Are you using the async flag?

[Tony.8659]

I agree about the dx12pxy, even reshade supports it. I mean Anet can have a toggle in the graphics options DX9 or DX12 if they used this in the game.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"The Boz.2038" said:dxvk works, easier to install, but I'm not seeing the dramatic FPS increase people here report. Lion's Arch is 30-40FPS. Running a 980Ti, borderless window. What gives?

Performance depends on your settings and the location. I got massive FPS increase because I was all alone in a guild hall while facing particle effects. In areas without many particle effects, longer view distances and of course a lot more players, the FPS boost isn't gonna be the same. Usually in instances you will get a massive boost, but not so much in the open world and ESPECIALLY Lion's Arch which is a killer.

Now let's talk Lion's Arch. In the place you spawn first, Trader's Forum, I get 35-42 FPS. It can even reach 45 FPS. It IS stuttering while loading everything first, but once it stabilizes it gets to an average 40 FPS. This is at maximum settings, including AA, Super sampling, Ultra Shadows, and maximum settings for character models.

Take a look:

Of course we cannot compare results because we can't have the same amount of players around, with the same skins.Once we get this baseline performance, we can find what's killing our FPS. The first and foremost is Shadows and the model settings.

These are the settings I use and since we have the same CPU, you should have above 60 FPS in LA as well:

Fortunately the settings I reduced don't seem to do much. Low/Medium Shadows look terrible in my opinion, AA and supersampling don't provide any image benefit.

Things like Animation, Environment, LOD Distance (this is weird), Reflections, Shaders and Postprocessing have a negligible effect on my performance and at the same time make the game look incredibly ugly.

Try my settings above and see if they make a difference.

Edit: Set Reflections to None too. I prefer the shaders on Water surfaces rather than reflections, especially on older maps where reflections (even on all) look weird.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Infusion.7149 said:Are you using the async flag?

How can I use this flag? Will it reduce the stuttering? Going constantly from 53 to 70 fps while walking around Lion's Arch is really annoying. And it only happens when moving around, or moving the camera around.

[Jukhy.2431]

I find all this stutter talk is weird cause my gameplay is not stuttering at all, not in LA or DR etc. Maybe sometimes in a huge open world zerg but even then it's hardly noticeable. Tho I do have quite 'beefy' system and always use the 'character model limit' on low setting.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Jukhy.2431 said:I find all this stutter talk is weird cause my gameplay is not stuttering at all, not in LA or DR etc. Maybe sometimes in a huge open world zerg but even then it's hardly noticeable. Tho I do have quite 'beefy' system and always use the 'character model limit' on low setting.

As I said, by stuttering I mean losing 20-30 FPS then going back up. It's not a complete drain. Can you post your graphics settings and your build?

[Jukhy.2431]

@maddoctor.2738 said:As I said, by stuttering I mean losing 20-30 FPS then going back up. It's not a complete drain. Can you post your graphics settings and your build?Oh, I see. Understood it to mean actual stuttering ingame. Used to happen in some FPS games I played in the past, always hated it.In GW2 my FPS is usually quite steady. Currently at work, but might post the settings and specs later.

[Evil.1580]

@maddoctor.2738

After installing DXVK I couldn't run ARC Dps.

[Infusion.7149]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:Are you using the async flag?

How can I use this flag? Will it reduce the stuttering? Going constantly from 53 to 70 fps while walking around Lion's Arch is really annoying. And it only happens when moving around, or moving the camera around.

I believe on Windows you need to use something akin to this patched version in order to use that flag, but putting DXVK_ASYNC=1 in environment variables or dxvk.enableAsync = true in dxvk.conf should enable it

https://github.com/Sporif/dxvk-async

See also https://old.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/mlfcsc/a_guide_to_dxvk_on_windows/

edit: add GPU profiling links for people that want to see where actual bottlenecks are fromAccording to AMD developer documents it might be due to GCN architecture that it helps more on AMD , assuming it is "async compute":https://gpuopen.com/performance/#asynccomputehttp://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2012/10/Asynchronous-Shaders-White-Paper-FINAL.pdf

Nvidia GPUs since Maxwell / Pascal prioritize compute over graphics. Maxwell (GTX 900 series) can only allocate compute OR graphics for a SM , it cannot do compute and graphics simultaneously. Pascal was able to dynamically schedule compute/graphics: https://www.anandtech.com/show/10325/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-and-1070-founders-edition-review/9

It is also mentioned in Nvidia's Vulkan short guides:https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/vulkan-dos-donts/

There's tools to analyze bottlenecks, so you can actually see where the hangup is:https://gpuopen.com/rgp/https://developer.nvidia.com/nsight-graphics , https://developer.nvidia.com/nsight-perf-sdkhttps://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-visual-profiler

@Evil.1580 said:@maddoctor.2738

After installing DXVK I couldn't run ARC Dps.

On Windows (not on Linux) chainload it just like you would with d912pxy. See above.

[HappyHubris.1096]

Is there any performance difference between DXVK vs d912pxy on Windows? If not, DXVK would seem superior due to "keeping up" with game updates.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"HappyHubris.1096" said:Is there any performance difference between DXVK vs d912pxy on Windows? If not, DXVK would seem superior due to "keeping up" with game updates.

From my tests dxvk is superior in performance, and also doesn't break with game updates, so it's a clear winner. At least with my AMD card.

[Turin.6921]

@"Veprovina.4876" said:Quick question for whoever may know.

Does DXVK work with ArcDPS?

EDIT: Just tried DXVK and it was great and actally better than d912pxy until i cast a skill. Then it crashed. :tongue:I'm going back to d912pxy for now, but will keep DXVK in mind for the future. I just wonder if it also works with ArcDPS.

I wish i still had my Linux installation to try GW2 on linux with this...

It works on Linux. Gw2 has a serious login issue with the latest Wine versions (due to a freesynq patch) but the 5.7+DXVK and older works fine and also ARC DPS works fine with it. I am also using the BuildTab plugin and chainload the Radial menu without issues. The only thing i tried and failed was the killproof.me plugin for some reason. And this only happened with a recent update.

As for Anet supporting these plugins in general: its not going to happen. All these system here work generally fine but the need to work 100% in all cases for a company to officially support. And the moment you officially endorse something you kinda guarantee to make all the effort to support it. The problem is not the effort of developing but supporting afterwards (updating, developing new things with the plugins in mind, training support to deal with problems with it etc). It has a much higher cost than most people think. Unfortunately the idea that "well if these few hobby developers did it there is no reason for Anet to not do it" is a bit of armchair expertise. Its a different ballpark.

[Astyrah.4015]

@"Turin.6921" said:It works on Linux. Gw2 has a serious login issue with the latest Wine versions (due to a freesynq patch) but the 5.7+DXVK and older works fine

this has been fixed since 6.5 wine staging release. the newest 6.6 staging also works.

see bug report:https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50738

[Turin.6921]

@Astyrah.4015 said:

@"Turin.6921" said:It works on Linux. Gw2 has a serious login issue with the latest Wine versions (due to a freesynq patch) but the 5.7+DXVK and older works fine

this has been fixed since 6.5 wine staging release. the newest 6.6 staging also works.

see bug report:

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50738

ohh....Last one i tried was 6.4. Will check it out thanks!

[Astyrah.4015]

@Turin.6921 said:

@Astyrah.4015 said:

@Turin.6921 said:It works on Linux. Gw2 has a serious login issue with the latest Wine versions (due to a freesynq patch) but the 5.7+DXVK and older works fine

this has been fixed since 6.5 wine staging release. the newest 6.6 staging also works.

see bug report:

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50738

ohh....Last one i tried was 6.4. Will check it out thanks!

lutris (what most people use) only comes with 6.4 due to 6.5 regressions in other games (gw2 is totally unaffected). you should compile it manually (with staging and tkg patchsets so you have futex2) or pull it manually from your distro's repositories

im on 6.5 myself and the game runs great. i'm waiting for tkg's 6.6 patchset release before i upgrade.

[Turin.6921]

@Astyrah.4015 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@Astyrah.4015 said:

@Turin.6921 said:It works on Linux. Gw2 has a serious login issue with the latest Wine versions (due to a freesynq patch) but the 5.7+DXVK and older works fine

this has been fixed since 6.5 wine staging release. the newest 6.6 staging also works.

see bug report:

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50738

ohh....Last one i tried was 6.4. Will check it out thanks!

lutris (what most people use) only comes with 6.4 due to 6.5 regressions in other games (gw2 is totally unaffected). you should compile it manually (with staging and tkg patchsets so you have futex2) or pull it manually from your distro's repositories

im on 6.5 myself and the game runs great. i'm

waiting for tkg's

6.6 patchset release before i upgrade.

I will probably just pull it from distro repositories. Frankly its not that urgent as 5.7 works fine as well and i can use that until 6.6 is out.

[Joote.4081]

Anyone having problems with the latest d912pxy? I was thinking of trying it again after updating my drivers.

[Kuronca.4138]

I have tried DXVK and it works way much better than d912pxy.Im amazed and my pc is not bad at all, 2017 high end.

Anet should work on it.

Edit: the only issue found so far is that the mini map changes everytime you alt+tab

[Infusion.7149]

@"Kuronca.4138" said:I have tried DXVK and it works way much better than d912pxy.Im amazed and my pc is not bad at all, 2017 high end.

Anet should work on it.

Edit: the only issue found so far is that the mini map changes everytime you alt+tab

Arenanet should work on what? DXVK is supported by Valve for Steam Proton, which has much more investment than Arenanet. That's why it runs far better than d912pxy. It's open source as well.

If you use d912pxy or dxvk, you will see that shadows / reflections and model limit remain an issue. The game was built in a time when RTX/DXR/Vulkan ray tracing did not exist so any dynamic shadows and reflections that are not prebaked cost resources. Until the lowest end AMD and Nvidia GPUs have reasonable performance with pathtracing or raytracing (we're talking <$300 and below 75W GPUs that fit in OEM prebuilts and 14-15" laptops) this won't change the feasibility of using modern ways to render shadows/reflections. The model limit bottlenecking is probably something that cannot be fixed quickly since they were/are using Umbra culling which is CPU-based and has nothing related to DX12/Vulkan (it would happen even with a different graphics API).

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/an-interview-with-the-developer-of-dxvk-part-of-what-makes-valves-steam-play-tick.12537

GOL: Since you're now contracted by Valve, how did that happen? Must have been quite a shock initially to have Valve approach you?

DXVK: “It wasn't all that spectacular - they contacted me when News made the round that DXVK could run Nier [NieR:Automata] back in late January, and when offered to work full-time on the project after a friendly chat, I couldn't really refuse.There are a lot of things that probably would not have happened if Valve hadn't been backing the project - such as driver developers fixing their Vulkan drivers for DXVK or reporting bugs, or Vulkan getting a transform feedback extension.”

GOL: Do Valve give you much input in the direction of DXVK or do you continue to work on it freely, simply with the backing of Valve to allow you extra time on it?

DXVK: "There are some things that I probably wouldn't have done without them requesting it, such as adding OpenVR support or focusing on certain games early on, or trying to squeeze more performance out of specific workloads. But I spent most of the time just improving overall game compatibility and performance."

GOL: There have been a lot of people asking about anti-cheat, things like Easy Anti-Cheat, BattlEye and so on where the games won't run in Steam Play/Wine. People seem confused where the problem really is. Is it something Wine needs to solve to support them?

DXVK: "I'm certainly not an expert on anti-cheat or DRM technology, but those that don't work are typically very invasive, access Windows kernel APIs, rely on undocumented APIs, and may prevent debugging. All of that makes it very hard for Wine to support them."

GOL: How has the reception been to DXVK? Has it changed since Steam Play?

DXVK: “Depends on who you ask. People who just wanted to play their games on Linux were generally excited when DXVK started running more and more of their games, part of the wine community isn't exactly happy about it being a separate project, and there are of course those who dislike wine in general, but more on that later.

Has it changed since Steam Play? I don't think so. Things just have calmed down over time. Many of those using Proton now have been using Wine, Lutris, DXVK etc. before, and new users seem to be happy with Proton as a whole, which DXVK is a part of.”

Before the end of 2019 merge, DXVK and D9VK were separate.https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=D9VK-Merges-Into-DXVK

D9VK, the frog-themed Direct3D 9 over Vulkan translation layer originally based on DXVK, has now been merged into the upstream DXVK Direct3D 10/11 over Vulkan layer. In other words, a single project is now providing support from Direct3D 9 through Direct3D 11 for Vulkan acceleration in speeding up the Windows gaming on Linux experience.

Overnight this merge request was honored for pulling in the Direct3D 9 support into DXVK. Lead D9VK developer Joshua Ashton summed it up as, "The reason being is D9VK is usable and mostly feature complete now, even having some additional features not exposed by other implementations, and it would be nice to have all our D3D implementations in one place/project!"

[Biermeister.4678]

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Let me post my own results. They are from the same location as I load into the guild hall (I used the snipping tool to take the picture) and as you can see in the screenshots the same settings.

No DX12PY:

DX12PY:

On average I get 19-24 fps without dx12py running around in the guild hall (we have a few decorations filled with particples there), but get between 47-53 fps while using dx12py, that's an absolutely massive difference. Also, do note the much higher VRAM usage, which is the "negative" of using dx12py. And remember this is at maximum settings, including supersampling and SMAA.

As for those that experience graphic issues, especially in cutscenes, that's "normal" because dx12py needs to compile all shaders and compiles them as it sees them for the first time. So if this tool was incorporated into the game, Arenanet could run all assets with it before releasing it, or force it to create assets on load time (like most games do anyway) to avoid those glitches.

wow you get 28 fps without DX912 that is great how did you get that

[keenedge.9675]

A while back I had a bad stuttering issue. It was caused by the Nvidia option turned ON for capturing and buffering video in case you might want to capture or stream. They quietly had turned in on by default during a driver update. Once I turned it off I was fine.

The 2nd time I had stuttering was because my system was 'thermal throttling' (a windows setting), getting a better heatsink and fresh thermal grease fixed that. ( BTW, this only happened when running several copies of GW2 at the same time)

I've played gw2 for 8 years and never had stuttering due to the game. The source was always external factors.

I still run on my i7-3770 with an Nvidia 960FTW using Windows 7. ( 7 is great AND stable. No surprise updates. It just works everyday like the day before )

[Veprovina.4876]

Can someone take a look at this thread?
 

I'm having problems with DXVK on Linux it's like the game is not using it at all, i can't get the HUD up, nothing... And some versions give errors...

[Joote.4081]

 

On 4/21/2021 at 12:14 AM, keenedge.9675 said:

A while back I had a bad stuttering issue. It was caused by the Nvidia option turned ON for capturing and buffering video in case you might want to capture or stream. They quietly had turned in on by default during a driver update. Once I turned it off I was fine.

The 2nd time I had stuttering was because my system was 'thermal throttling' (a windows setting), getting a better heatsink and fresh thermal grease fixed that. ( BTW, this only happened when running several copies of GW2 at the same time)

I've played gw2 for 8 years and never had stuttering due to the game. The source was always external factors.

I still run on my i7-3770 with an Nvidia 960FTW using Windows 7. ( 7 is great AND stable. No surprise updates. It just works everyday like the day before )

Where was this Nvidia option for buffering videos?  I can't seem to find it.

[Sikil.9817]

On 4/18/2021 at 10:42 AM, Kuronca.4138 said:

I have tried DXVK and it works way much better than d912pxy.Im amazed and my pc is not bad at all, 2017 high end.

Anet should work on it.

Edit: the only issue found so far is that the mini map changes everytime you alt+tab

 

Does anyone here have suggestions for what config to set on DXVK or other recommended tweaks, because I tried it and was quite disappointed with its frame rate in my test scene

 

 

No mod - 30-35 fps

dx912pxy - 45-50 fps

dxvk - 36-40 fps

 

I dropped the files into the right place and it was definitely running, it created its shader cache and stuff. I waited until all the textures seem to have popped in (much quicker than dx912pxy).

 

System: 2560x1440 G-Sync display, i7 9700K, 32GiB RAM, GTX 1080 (latest drivers). All settings max except FXAA, and character model limit set to medium.

 

I reinstalled dx912pxy because that gives me a great experience and I want to play the game not the settings 😉 but am left with this feeling I could have a bunch more performance again if only I knew what thing to twiddle...

[Xanadrine.4352]

Just touching on this again. With the new expansion coming out anet really should have upgraded to DX12, it will hurt the game and future sales. There is no reason to have a game running DX9 in this day and age. Windows no longer supports xp/7 those OS are dead and with them DX9. The game runs so much better just using the DX12 add, with native DX12 it would be fantastic. Post on steam and other game communities are crying out to upgrade the dinosaur. The game is going to bleed off players and have a hard time keeping new ones if you dont have the performance there. Its a great game with a horrible engine DX11 came out in like 2009, why is this game DX9? If this is because of NCSoft not letting them upgrade then NCSoft is shooting themselves in the foot here.

With an expansion on the horizon the time has never been better to attract new players in droves and keep them. But a large part of that is how the game runs on high end pcs, that old engine is strangling even top rigs as seen in the posts here. NCSoft is literally foolish if they dont invest in GW2 properly esp on the cusp of an expansion. The potential to expand the playerbase and make the game so much better is right in front of them. I think they have been ill informed on how much mmorpgs still hold peoples attention. The reason this game is stagnant with the same old players is because new players are not looking to fight the game engine.