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Gw2 DX12pxy needs to be implemented directly


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10 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

With the new expansion coming out anet really should have upgraded to DX12, it will hurt the game and future sales.

 

There's no evidence to suggest that it will nor that it has in a noticeable way.  Sure better performance is usually good but there are things which players can currently do in-game to improve that on their end.

 

10 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

There is no reason to have a game running DX9 in this day and age.

 

Cost.  It isn't cheap to upgrade the game engine and it's clear that Anet doesn't have the excess funds and resources to accomplish a task like that.  They can't even fix long standing bugs in the game after all.

 

10 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

The game is going to bleed off players and have a hard time keeping new ones if you dont have the performance there.

 

Speculation.  There are many other factors which are more likely to drive  off players before this.

 

10 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

With an expansion on the horizon the time has never been better to attract new players in droves and keep them.

 

I agree.  Upgrading the engine won't really accomplish that though.

 

10 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

The reason this game is stagnant with the same old players is because new players are not looking to fight the game engine.

 

No.  It would be stagnant and bleeding players due to other reasons which started before the game even launched.

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Still shooting down everything I see....what a contribution.   They should implement it. Part of what makes games better is optimization over time. There is a reason WoW switched over. There

At the cost of making the game look very very ugly. Players can make the game look even worse than Guild Wars 1 to have better performance, but is that even worth it on systems that can run the latest

So reducing the quality (and number) of players around doesn't "impact graphics". Good to know. And no, just playing with model limits will never be enough because the game has horrible performance ev

Still shooting down everything I see....what a contribution.

 

They should implement it. Part of what makes games better is optimization over time. There is a reason WoW switched over. There is a reason other games have as well. It would benefit the game in a meaningful way. A lot of the work has already been done. They could  make it an option similar to how the 64bit client was. 

 

The pros far outweigh the cons of doing so. I can't think of any reasons not to apart from small savings seeing how a fan did it for free in their spare time.

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Well, whatever they do, I hope they make improvements for GW2 using the Vulkan API, not DX12. DX12 is exclusive to Windows 10 and that... ****ing OS is a trashfire. And I say this as someone who used to be a big Windows fan. Let's not encourage Microsoft's dominance they have with Windows 10 even more.

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Well,  if Anet expects the game to do well in Steam they will definitely improve the performance or the reviews will destroy the game. 

 

DX12pxy it is just a proxy, so it should not be implemented directly into GW2, Anet needs to upgrade the engine to use Dx12 so we can see real improvements.

 

There is a reason NcSoft's Project TL (TL Origins now) moved on from the GW2 engine to a UE4 (or UE5 when it comes out) . 

 

 

 

 

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On 5/31/2021 at 1:44 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

Well,  if Anet expects the game to do well in Steam they will definitely improve the performance or the reviews will destroy the game. 

 

DX12pxy it is just a proxy, so it should not be implemented directly into GW2, Anet needs to upgrade the engine to use Dx12 so we can see real improvements.

 

There is a reason NcSoft's Project TL (TL Origins now) moved on from the GW2 engine to a UE4 (or UE5 when it comes out) . 

 

 

 

 

I agree there are already topics posted on steam about this. I cant say anet is totally to blame, NCSoft has final decisions and holds the purse strings.

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On 5/31/2021 at 8:40 AM, Arnox.5128 said:

Well, whatever they do, I hope they make improvements for GW2 using the Vulkan API, not DX12. DX12 is exclusive to Windows 10 and that... ****ing OS is a trashfire. And I say this as someone who used to be a big Windows fan. Let's not encourage Microsoft's dominance they have with Windows 10 even more.

Did you actually use the OS or just jumped in to the bandwagon?

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On 5/30/2021 at 6:25 PM, Ayrilana.1396 said:

Sure better performance is usually good but there are things which players can currently do in-game to improve that on their end.

At the cost of making the game look very very ugly. Players can make the game look even worse than Guild Wars 1 to have better performance, but is that even worth it on systems that can run the latest games at max settings without any problem? I think not.

 

On 5/30/2021 at 6:25 PM, Ayrilana.1396 said:

Cost.  It isn't cheap to upgrade the game engine and it's clear that Anet doesn't have the excess funds and resources to accomplish a task like that. 

 

Just using DXVK provides massive performance improvements and it's completely free. Making the engine use Vulkan, instead of DirectX 9, is not the massive undertaking you make it out to be.

 

On 5/30/2021 at 6:25 PM, Ayrilana.1396 said:

They can't even fix long standing bugs in the game after all.

I'm quite positive Arenanet still has an engine team that is responsible for engine related code, nothing to do with most kinds of game bugs, long standing or not. Furthermore, fixing a bug can take a great amount of time/effort, while implementing something entirely new can be indeed easier. That's how programming works more often than not.

 

On 5/30/2021 at 6:25 PM, Ayrilana.1396 said:

Speculation.  There are many other factors which are more likely to drive  off players before this.

Performance and engine problems is gonna be noticed before anything else, in fact, while loading into the game for the very first time. Those "many other factors" you claim will be noticed much much later than performance.

 

Do note that most (recent) games that had/have performance issues was/is destroyed on reviews (especially on Steam, but in general as well) even if it was/is a great  game gameplay-wise. Performance does break/make games.

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1 hour ago, maddoctor.2738 said:

At the cost of making the game look very very ugly. Players can make the game look even worse than Guild Wars 1 to have better performance, but is that even worth it on systems that can run the latest games at max settings without any problem? I think not.

 

Not every option which I was speaking of impacts the graphics.  For example, players can reduce the player model limit to significantly improve FPS. 

 

1 hour ago, maddoctor.2738 said:

Just using DXVK provides massive performance improvements and it's completely free. Making the engine use Vulkan, instead of DirectX 9, is not the massive undertaking you make it out to be.

 

People make the same claim about DX12.  There is a cost for it and messing with the engine could break a lot of things which they could have created workarounds for in the past.  I also made no indication of the size of the undertaking.  That was you alone who injected that into what I said.

 

1 hour ago, maddoctor.2738 said:

I'm quite positive Arenanet still has an engine team that is responsible for engine related code, nothing to do with most kinds of game bugs, long standing or not. Furthermore, fixing a bug can take a great amount of time/effort, while implementing something entirely new can be indeed easier. That's how programming works more often than not.

 

They're not implementing something new.  They're revising an existing system.

 

1 hour ago, maddoctor.2738 said:

Performance and engine problems is gonna be noticed before anything else, in fact, while loading into the game for the very first time. Those "many other factors" you claim will be noticed much much later than performance.

 

Do note that most (recent) games that had/have performance issues was/is destroyed on reviews (especially on Steam, but in general as well) even if it was/is a great  game gameplay-wise. Performance does break/make games.

 

The performance issues may be a factor but but it's not as large of a one as the poster was making it out to be. 

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1 hour ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

 

Not every option which I was speaking of impacts the graphics.  For example, players can reduce the player model limit to significantly improve FPS. 

While playing WvW that's not really a good option.

1 hour ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

 

 

People make the same claim about DX12.  There is a cost for it and messing with the engine could break a lot of things which they could have created workarounds for in the past.  I also made no indication of the size of the undertaking.  That was you alone who injected that into what I said.

You said they didn't have the resources. Resources scale with the size of an undertaking. So, yes you did imply it.

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jin.8501 said:

Did you actually use the OS or just jumped in to the bandwagon?

 

You can't live in this day and age and avoid Windows 10 entirely. Yes, I've used it both personally and on other computers and I see very little redeeming about it. The problems are:

 

- Forced automatic updates
- Buggy builds getting constantly shipped out as updates
- Privacy issues
- Windows 10 being the "last" Windows version to be released (and what that implies for dev work)
- Removing programs that used to be bundled into the Windows OS and selling them back to the user (examples include Solitaire and the Windows Ink Sketchpad)
- Microsoft just generally fighting with users for control of their own systems such as updates often "accidentally" reenabling or redisabling a setting or registry key that the user set explicitly or installing unwanted programs or etc.
- Very questionable performance
- No HomeGroup

 

And the more we let Microsoft dominate the OS market, the worse these problems are probably gonna get as they get even more sloppy and lazy. Again, I used to be a big Windows fan. XP and 7 both are prime examples of amazing operating systems. They were worth the price for a retail copy of them. But starting with Windows 8, Microsoft has definitely been on the decline.

 

Even with all that aside though, there's no real reason to use DX12 over Vulkan anyway. Vulkan can deliver the same performance just as easily and is just as easy to write for. And it does this all while being mostly platform-agnostic, unlike DX12.

Edited by Arnox.5128
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1 hour ago, Essence Snow.3194 said:

While playing WvW that's not really a good option.

 

Well certainly not at the lowest setting but you don't need to see each individual player of the zerg either.

 

1 hour ago, Essence Snow.3194 said:

You said they didn't have the resources. Resources scale with the size of an undertaking. So, yes you did imply it.

 

Please take a look at what I actually said.  While it's true that resources usually scale with the size of the undertaking, I was not making any reference to the actual size.  The other poster was the one who was making that by injecting it into the discussion and passing it off as if I had said it. 

 

Am I really the one that implied it?  I simply stated that they didn't have enough resources.  I'm not the one that said it requires massive resources.  I'm not the one who stated that "resources scale with the size of the undertaking" implying that they either believe it requires massive resources or is a massive undertaking.  I can say that I don't have enough resources to craft a piece of ascended armor.  This could mean that I'm short a few items or short all of them.  There's a wide range but you two decided to take it to the far extreme and make it out as if I had stated or implied that.  You both are incorrect.

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7 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

 

Well certainly not at the lowest setting but you don't need to see each individual player of the zerg either.

And your dead.......that's how not seeing other players works in WvW.

7 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

 

 

Please take a look at what I actually said.  While it's true that resources usually scale with the size of the undertaking, I was not making any reference to the actual size.  The other poster was the one who was making that by injecting it into the discussion and passing it off as if I had said it. 

 

Am I really the one that implied it?  I simply stated that they didn't have enough resources.  I'm not the one that said it requires massive resources.  I'm not the one who stated that "resources scale with the size of the undertaking" implying that they either believe it requires massive resources or is a massive undertaking.  I can say that I don't have enough resources to craft a piece of ascended armor.  This could mean that I'm short a few items or short all of them.  There's a wide range but you two decided to take it to the far extreme and make it out as if I had stated or implied that.  You both are incorrect.

You can back peddle all you want, but it's not changing what you said. 

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3 hours ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

- Forced automatic updates
- Buggy builds getting constantly shipped out as updates
- Privacy issues
- Windows 10 being the "last" Windows version to be released (and what that implies for dev work)
- Removing programs that used to be bundled into the Windows OS and selling them back to the user (examples include Solitaire and the Windows Ink Sketchpad)
- Microsoft just generally fighting with users for control of their own systems such as updates often "accidentally" reenabling or redisabling a setting or registry key that the user set explicitly or installing unwanted programs or etc.
- No HomeGroup

 

 

 

Agree on all of those things. I do disagree about the performance however and how fluid the OS feels compared to clunky 7.

I'd say worst thing about the 10 is that with every bigger update it resets some of my settings and MS switches around where specific controls are like networking, language (keyboard) and sound device management are hidden behind multiple tabs when in the launch they were just as simple and quick to use as in the 7

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Essence Snow.3194 said:

And your dead.......that's how not seeing other players works in WvW.

 

As if seeing every player within a zerg would have made a difference.

 

2 hours ago, Essence Snow.3194 said:

You can back peddle all you want, but it's not changing what you said.

 

Read my previous posts.  It's not backpedaling when trying to counter you two who are intentionally twisting what I said. 

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1 hour ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

 

As if seeing every player within a zerg would have made a difference.

 

 

Read my previous posts.  It's not backpedaling when trying to counter you two who are intentionally twisting what I said. 

I know enough about you to know what kind of poster you are. There's a few of you that create a toxic environment for other posters. Idk why Anet puts up with it....but I don't. So I will point out your hypocrisy when you go after other posters.

 

PS nice touch going through and "reacting" to all my posts....shows class

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2 hours ago, Essence Snow.3194 said:

I know enough about you to know what kind of poster you are. There's a few of you that create a toxic environment for other posters. Idk why Anet puts up with it....but I don't. So I will point out your hypocrisy when you go after other posters.

 

PS nice touch going through and "reacting" to all my posts....shows class

 

If there's toxicity then it's coming from those who would take a statement and then distort it for their own purposes.  It's not toxic to be in disagreement.  It is toxic to see someone's post and say something like "Still shooting down everything I see....what a contribution. "  Not everyone will agree with everyone and that's perfectly okay.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Jin.8501 said:

I do disagree about the performance however and how fluid the OS feels compared to clunky 7.

 

This is quite objectively false, to be honest. (Not trying to be rude) Perhaps you had an install of 7 that was really old and/or filled with tons of background programs? That will grind 10 down to a crawl just as easily as well. Also, using a 5200 RPM HDD instead of an SSD has a dramatic impact on access times as well.

 

To give you a bit more background on why I say this is objectively false, I have an old laptop with a fresh-installed copy of Windows 7 Professional and even though the laptop only has a Core i5-4200M and 4 GBs of 1600 MHz RAM, it still boots up fast and runs very quick and snappy. I guarantee you if I put Windows 10 Professional on it, it would be a MUCH more different story.

Edited by Arnox.5128
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4 hours ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

This is quite objectively false, to be honest. (Not trying to be rude) Perhaps you had an install of 7 that was really old and/or filled with tons of background programs? That will grind 10 down to a crawl just as easily as well. Also, using a 5200 RPM HDD instead of an SSD has a dramatic impact on access times as well.

 

To give you a bit more background on why I say this is objectively false, I have an old laptop with a fresh-installed copy of Windows 7 Professional and even though the laptop only has a Core i5-4200M and 4 GBs of 1600 MHz RAM, it still boots up fast and runs very quick and snappy. I guarantee you if I put Windows 10 Professional on it, it would be a MUCH more different story.

Windows 10 has been proven time after time from a vast majority of people to be faster in its boot startup.  So he’s not objectively wrong to your anecdotal story.

 

Regardless of any of this, ANet has no reason to refactor GW2 to use dx12 or vulkan.  Considering they’re using a homegrown game engine and no foreseeable pc game in the works, we are stuck with what we have.  Fortunately we have dx12 and vulkan emulators to help with frame rates and gw2reshade for visual improvements.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, phokus.8934 said:

Windows 10 has been proven time after time from a vast majority of people to be faster in its boot startup.  So he’s not objectively wrong to your anecdotal story.

 

There is far more to the story than boot times though. In fact, I'd daresay that fast boot times are mostly overrated and not actually indicative of overall performance of the OS, although fast boot times are indeed nice.

 

For example, Windows Explorer on my Windows 10 tablet tends to lag often for no discernible reason even though there's a lightning-fast Samsung NVMe drive in it. There is also a weird and infuriating delay I get with opening the Start menu whenever it hasn't been opened for a little bit. I've even tried completely uninstalling Windows Search just to see if that's what was causing the lag in opening the menu. Nope. And then there's the fact that games written natively for Windows sometimes perform WORSE in 10 than in Linux with Steam's Proton. And finally, there have been many scripts written for Windows 10 that MASSIVELY debloat the OS. When this happens, most people are astounded at how nice the OS performs as compared to a vanilla install.

 

Just trust me. Windows 10 could be a LOT better, performance wise if Microsoft actually got their thumbs out of their ***.

Edited by Arnox.5128
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1 hour ago, phokus.8934 said:

Windows 10 has been proven time after time from a vast majority of people to be faster in its boot startup.  So he’s not objectively wrong to your anecdotal story.

 

That's because Windows 10 doesn't do a complete shut down.  In order to do a full shut down, you have to hold the SHIFT key down when you click Shut Down.  Microsoft is kinda lying about boot time.

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8 hours ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

 

If there's toxicity then it's coming from those who would take a statement and then distort it for their own purposes.  It's not toxic to be in disagreement.  It is toxic to see someone's post and say something like "Still shooting down everything I see....what a contribution. "  Not everyone will agree with everyone and that's perfectly okay.

I haven't spent 7000+ posts going after other users for their ideas. Just a few calling you out. If I had the ability to block you, that would make my day.

 

This thread......the idea is valid based on how it would benefit not only the player base, but the game's health as well. Idk y you have to be so negative to everyone.

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15 minutes ago, Essence Snow.3194 said:

This thread......the idea is valid based on how it would benefit not only the player base, but the game's health as well.

That's your opinion.  What facts or figures do you have to support such a point of view?

 

The better question to ask is how does it benefit Anet and/or their investors.

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1 hour ago, Essence Snow.3194 said:

I haven't spent 7000+ posts going after other users for their ideas. Just a few calling you out. If I had the ability to block you, that would make my day.

 

This thread......the idea is valid based on how it would benefit not only the player base, but the game's health as well. Idk y you have to be so negative to everyone.


There’s a difference between having a different opinion (or disagreeing) and “going after someone for their ideas”.  It’s rather toxic to attempt to paint someone as the villain simply because they have a different opinion. 
 

As for this thread, I simply stated why I felt it would not work. I don’t feel that Anet has the resources to accomplish something like this. There are other things beyond that which could some into play such as whether management feels that it’s actually worth investing into. 

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Been a while since i even stepped foot into this forum, glad to see it hasnt changed with neigh sayers. 

Say all you want, but GW2 NEEDS an engine update. its only of the few games that runs like crap on top end systems. Its one of the only games where turning the camera fast actually scares me due to the massive drop in FPS.

Do i get this drop in games like Cyberpunk, FFXIV or GTAO? not even once.
 

It makes the game less enjoyable as a result and needs to be changed if this game wants to continue onwards.

Just feel like i need to comment on this statement:

"I don’t feel that Anet has the resources to accomplish something like this."
What gives you this impression? Have you not seen the marketing material that they have wasted money on? Clearly they have the funds but its all spent on the wrong things time and time again. Square Enix fixed a game that had essentually 'failed', it just needs someone with a spine to make it happen.

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