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Who's your favorite order, their story and why?


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I like exploration, treasure-hunting and experimental weapons. The Sanguinary Blade chapter was a perfect mix of all three. While I do like the ability to get secret info from random NPCs as a Whisper's Agent, the chitchat as a Priory Member is usually more entertaining.

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i'll go with "other". for story i'd rather i didnt join any order (declined the offers on the level 30 story) and just became a regular adventurer doing whatever i wanted. i didn't want to become pact commander. but that's just me =) ( and i did finish all story content and currently waiting for the last ibs episode/part/chapter )

for an actual favourite among the 3 orders, order of whispers. i like espionage and secret agents

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@"Astyrah.4015" said:i'll go with "other". for story i'd rather i didnt join any order (declined the offers on the level 30 story) and just became a regular adventurer doing whatever i wanted. i didn't want to become pact commander. but that's just me =) ( and i did finish all story content and currently waiting for the last ibs episode/part/chapter )

for an actual favourite among the 3 orders, order of whispers. i like espionage and secret agents

Yeah it's weird that wasn't an option. I mean, the orders come together at the end anyway, and save for a few story missions, the choice doesn't really matter much. You always end up being the Commander and forming Dragon's watch. So why would it matter if you didn't join any order, right? That would require another path though, and probably references to it down the line so they probably did it to familiarize the players with the lore i guess.

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They all sucked because of a myriad of things.

For starters, which is to some extent shown in every race's version of the Orders, their portrayal as the usual trinity of Strength, Agility, and Intelligence attributes is complete ridiculous, because if the Vigil were all Strength, as how they're shown in most of their proposed strategies to solving the quests (and WARMASTER Efut), there would be no Vigil in a week. If the Priory were all Intelligence, they would push for some sort of accord with the rest of the world at every chance they would get, not oppose it for no reason whatsoever, and if Whispers were all Agility, they would be a circus, not an organization of spies, because what's the point of a blade if it's never drawn?

Now, an argument can be made that I came up with three arbitrary distinctions, debunked them, and thus I'm at square zero with only my keyboard's longevity shortened of a few strokes.BUT! that's exactly the problem.The Orders and their stories suck, because they're illogically hindered solely for the sake of all of them being the same, just like tunneling a single attribute would look.Which is an astonishing shame, since Sieran, Tybalt, and Forgal have distinct personalities, their own worries, their defining edges, but they're immediately thrown to hell.

Let's break the stories down:Level 30 is all about introducing the Orders; Priory think problems through, Whispers slice problems' throats, and Vigil throw people at the problem 'till either one runs out. No consequences for the choices (Priory thinking too long, or overthinking things, resulting in lives lost, perhaps?), no grander plan at play (Whispers letting a village get destroyed and/or people getting captured to get a payback further down the line) - everything starts and ends the same.Plus, the different races' agents have completely different presentation, even within the same order, which on one side makes characters different, but, considering they're representing their Orders to a promising new recruit, they all shine a completely different light on their orders, e. g. Ihan, the human Whispers' guy, argues by throwing shade for random reasons on other representatives ("oHmYgOsH, you would dEsEcRaTe a SoUl just to get SOME GoSsIp!? And you hug YOUR MOTHER with those ARMS!?", while Cai, the sylvari Whispers gal, is much more calm, precise, and generally goal-oriented (except for that one time her best counter-point to the sylvari Vigil soldier is "I'm smart, You're not"; FeelsOfficialForumsMan).

Level 40 brings in the partner-in-Ordered-crime, quite beautifully showing each of their personalities, their ways of solving problems, and touching on their fears and disappointments as well.And also displays the utter nonsense that the previously painted Strength/Agility/Intelligence trinity is, most apparently in the supposed Strength area.

I would personally never have picked Vigil voluntarily, the first time going for them only after finding out about the achievements tied to the Order, and still having the head-canon of "Vyx is just a Whispers agent in disguise, not real Vigil", having her take the "wtf" choices solely for aforementioned achievs - Vigil, disregarding Laranthir at the start of HoT, supporting Joko in Amnoon... - and then... enter Forgal, with an explosion and cool glasses, a salute in honor to his ULTIMATE BADASSITUDE.Forgal is magnificent. Almorra is brilliant. Even Laranthir, and he isn't exactly talkative before the Pact era, is much brighter than the expected STR 20; INT 1 Vigil guy. All hidden behind "Me Vigil, Me Smash" attitude from the previous introduction.The story itself revolves around a bit of a too personal matter at first glance, but it goes to show that the Vigil don't blindly charge at everything with "dragon" on their nameplate. The treaty looks irrelevant, the Vigil was formed to fight dragons, not politics, right? Right. But the ramifications of humans trying to murder charrs like in the good ol' times would hurt Tyria much more than possibly even Zhaitan, and Almorra's beyond petty revenge for the sake of revenge. She fights for a world where people like she don't need to exist.And that's abysmally far from the Vigil drawn 10 levels before.

Level 50 is basically the same for everybody.

But then the atrocity of Claw Island at level 60 rolls in.Who - WHO - thought that was a good idea?I assume somebody must've read the story script, and then somebody else must've coded the things around, and then somebody must've voice-acted it.And through all that, it got a green light?I can see why Tybalt would kill himself like that. He was broken because of his backstory, afraid since then 'till the player joins the order, and such people either have time to recuperate, or something like this happens. A heroic death. He could've booby-trapped himself or manually detonated all of his engineering gear to wipe out half of the currently present Risen army. Sure.But Forgal? And SIERAN, of all people? Kekt would make more sense at that point, and that's saying something, considering he wasn't even there.Those two were the most pointless deaths in any story I've seen so far, and, granted, I haven't seen that many, but these were prime candidates for getting a /facewall emote as a reward, something akin to how /shiverplus is a more shiny /shiver, /facewall would not only make the character run head-first into the nearest wall, but also delete it, the game, and uninstall the operating system.

This is pretty much where the stories converge into one (after the LA/Pale Tree/HQ attack, which are all almost the same regardless of the Order, save for the scenery) at the pier before departing to reclaim Claw Island as a single zerg.Before the cutscene, we're once more reminded of the Strength/Agility/Intelligence trinity via the interaction of the three Orders' leading characters:Almorra: So, I see Gixx stumbled out of his library, and the Preceptor crawled out of her hole!Gixx: I see you're not letting rationality get in the way of your ignorance, Almorra. How predictable.Almorra: Who are you calling ignorant, you twitchy little bookworm?Halvora: Wonderful. I see we're off to a running start. The Order of Whispers needs allies, not infants.This exchange is utter trash, devolving all of the Orders' masterminds into a "shootout" between two kindergarten mafia families.

One could consider the Pact a continuation of the Order stories, because the plot going forward doesn't exactly make them work together logically, it simply puts the three color palettes together regardless of the mission, because apparently the entire idea of the Personal Story arc was "Friendship Is Magic", and as such everything bad that can be said about it will invariably include criticism of the Orders as well - you know, some questionable writing and voice acting, friendly fire only when a character needs to die, all character models (except that old grandma one) look at most 40, COMMANDER, A WORD; the classics.

TL;DR: The Orders sucked because they were made to be different, while being precisely the same, to the point that even their only distinctive characteristic - the mentors - were tossed into the same inglorious hole of oblivion.Perhaps the writers were just totally clueless at the time, perhaps they were already afraid of not giving every single player the same toy, I've no idea, moar dataz always welcome, but from the artistic standpoint it was simply bad.

And, since it's the official forums and we don't want to hurt anybody's fragile feelings, I do need to point out that I haven't said a single thing about the rest of the story. The Personal Story is really bad. Not completely, but really bad.Everything beyond it is leaps and bounds in quality - writing, overall voice acting, story consistency... Again, not perfect, but way beyond the core experience. ANet is artistically growing with each release, and said growth is vividly illustrated exactly through the Living (hi)Story format Tyria's been made into.

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None of them hit their marks imoThe vigilwhat it is described as: Like a paladin chapter, without the zealotry. Doing good. Protecting the weak. juggernaut in combat.How it acts in game: unga bunga no think, big sword, big gun, do good. Throw soldiers at the bad guys until we crush them under our corpses.

The PrioryWhat it's described as: lorekeepers, both in sedentary research, and nomadic storyfinding/dungeon delving.How it acts in game: For the most part they do as they're described as, but they also have a nasty habit of doing that thing victorian era "anthropologists" did back in the day, where they show up to some foreign land, take some things, kill some native people that are angry these strangers showed up out of nowhere, and then go "RESEARCH ACHIEVED" which... kind of a buzz kill for my order pride there.

Order of WhispersWhat it's described as: secret society. Has fingers in every corner of every society. Probably in the other orders as well, but you'll never know who.How it acts in game: HEY EVERYBODY WE'RE SPIES!!! WHISPER WHISPER WHISPER. THE CODEWORD IS WHISPER. HAVE YOU SEEN OUR FLAG? ISN'T IT COOL? OUR TEAM COLORS ARE RED BLACK AND GOLD. VERB WHICH CANNOT BE VERBED. I LIKE TO HANG OUT IN BARS SURROUNDED BY FLAGS AND MAPS AND RED AND BLACK. There are a few npcs sprinkled around that are actually hidden in plain sight, but imo they get absolutely spoiled by the super easy to access whispers bases.

Priory is closest I guess, but idk, it's probably a consequence of them spreading themselves too thin during launch, storywise, but they're all just caricatures of their archetypes and not much else. Maybe if they could've been tied to gameplay outside of the personal story? Pledge to an order and get specific dailies tied to what that order would encourage?

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@Vyr.9387 said:But then the atrocity of Claw Island at level 60 rolls in.Who - WHO - thought that was a good idea?I assume somebody must've read the story script, and then somebody else must've coded the things around, and then somebody must've voice-acted it.And through all that, it got a green light?I can see why Tybalt would kill himself like that. He was broken because of his backstory, afraid since then 'till the player joins the order, and such people either have time to recuperate, or something like this happens. A heroic death. He could've booby-trapped himself or manually detonated all of his engineering gear to wipe out half of the currently present Risen army. Sure.But Forgal? And SIERAN, of all people? Kekt would make more sense at that point, and that's saying something, considering he wasn't even there.Those two were the most pointless deaths in any story I've seen so far, and, granted, I haven't seen that many, but these were prime candidates for getting a /facewall emote as a reward, something akin to how /shiverplus is a more shiny /shiver, /facewall would not only make the character run head-first into the nearest wall, but also delete it, the game, and uninstall the operating system.

I agree with you on this part (though, I think it's more logical for Forgal to hold the gate, and not Tybalt). What I wish they had done instead is make three different missions there, and had more things happening at the same time so all three mentors could be there and doing different things, with you having to play through all three orders to see the full story.

Tybalt and his partner get the beacons lit, but his beacon tower is swarmed in the process. He blows it up, rather than be killed and turned into an undead.

Forgal makes the stand in the courtyard, and is ground zero when the dragon lands. He and a few brave souls make one last stand to buy time for others to escape.

Sieran powers up a gate they were building so people can evacuate straight to Lion's Arch, but the gate isn't complete yet and to power it she has to stay on that side. When the risen close in, she's forced to destroy the gate.

This way you could have briefly run into the other mentors at Claw Island, and they each would have had their own, more fitting end. It also would show that all three died there, because there's no way you wouldn't run into Sieran or Forgal later if they didn't die there.

Edit: Oh, and 'other' because all three have good and bad points. I would pick Vigil just for Almorra, but...

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@Palador.2170 said:

@"Vyr.9387" said:But then the atrocity of Claw Island at
level 60
rolls in.Who - WHO - thought that was a good idea?I assume somebody must've read the story script, and then somebody else must've coded the things around, and then somebody must've voice-acted it.And through all that, it got a green light?I can see why Tybalt would kill himself like that. He was broken because of his backstory, afraid since then 'till the player joins the order, and such people either have time to recuperate, or something like this happens. A heroic death. He could've booby-trapped himself or manually detonated all of his engineering gear to wipe out half of the currently present Risen army. Sure.But Forgal? And SIERAN, of all people? Kekt would make more sense at that point, and that's saying something, considering he wasn't even there.Those two were the most pointless deaths in any story I've seen so far, and, granted, I haven't seen that many, but these were prime candidates for getting a /facewall emote as a reward, something akin to how /shiverplus is a more shiny /shiver, /facewall would not only make the character run head-first into the nearest wall, but also delete it, the game, and uninstall the operating system.

I agree with you on this part (though, I think it's more logical for Forgal to hold the gate, and not Tybalt).

The way the cutscene is shown, the mentor walks through the gate, then the gate gets shut. I was going solely by this image when comparing the three instances.As such, the case I brought up for Tybalt holds.When it comes to Forgal and Sieran, they were established as clever people, Forgal even having a sort of a running gag with the player about knowing when it's time to kick the doors down, and that not doing so isn't always cowardice, but strategy, and they knew they were alone against an army of Risen; they'd take down three, five, perhaps thirty-five. The shut gate alone would do more than those two combined, because the entire point of that "sacrifice" was to buy time for others to escape.

Which is still kinda questionable, considering the Risen can just tunnel through anything, as shown during Zhaitan's attack on the Whispers HQ, and on the Oxbow Isle in Mount Maelstrom, to name a couple, so perhaps even Tybalt's fireworks shouldn't be seen as reasonable. But, as I've mentioned in the quoted post, Tybalt might have been in deep, deep depression, and that hideous, bleak veil's anything but reasonable.

Sure, it can be argued that it canonically happened in a way different from the game because of the fact it's a game, just like the Brand is described to be so vast that it takes days to travel across, not take two hops with a raptor and vibe at the HP on the other end.But if we're supposed to come up with our own stories to not feel bad about a game in the first place, then the game sucks.

What I wish they had done instead is make three different missions there, and had more things happening at the same time so all three mentors could be there and doing different things, with you having to play through all three orders to see the full story.Tybalt and his partner get the beacons lit, but his beacon tower is swarmed in the process. He blows it up, rather than be killed and turned into an undead.

Forgal makes the stand in the courtyard, and is ground zero when the dragon lands. He and a few brave souls make one last stand to buy time for others to escape.

Sieran powers up a gate they were building so people can evacuate straight to Lion's Arch, but the gate isn't complete yet and to power it she has to stay on that side. When the risen close in, she's forced to destroy the gate.

This way you could have briefly run into the other mentors at Claw Island, and they each would have had their own, more fitting end. It also would show that all three died there, because there's no way you wouldn't run into Sieran or Forgal later if they didn't die there.

Yes!There could've been virtually anything, and I'm pretty sure ANet also could've come up with said anything, so there must've been a more meta reason for the final product shipping with this "one for all and... the same one for all" creed than incompetence.

But then there's the mystery of how long have ANet been torturing the phenomenal Kate Miller to make her sound like she does as the female charr Commander."Hey, Kate, I heard You can give a voice to practically anything. Have You ever played, say, a writing desk?"

Now that I think about it, I'm a bit... torn.Huh.

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Not sure why as I'm more of a knowledge-is-power bookworm irl (and seriously, Forgal is kinda creepy), but over the years I found out i like Vigil the best. Maybe it's because of Almorra, maybe something else... I honestly don't know. But I still choose them for most of my long-term alts.

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Theoretically I'd go with the Priory (and they're my #2) but I've become fond of the Vigil, probably because of Almorra Soulkeeper and her portrayal in Ghosts of Ascalon. The idea of altruistic individuals coming together regardless of race to protect everyone regardless of race certainly appeals to me—especially as the Vigil was founded before the human-charr truce. Though in-game it tends to gloss over that and the Pact has taken over with the Vigil being the pure strength branch.

Plus their missions can be simpler and I always forget which Whispers mission takes forever because of stealth >.>

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@"Vyr.9387" said:Plus, the different races' agents have completely different presentation, even within the same order, which on one side makes characters different, but, considering they're representing their Orders to a promising new recruit, they all shine a completely different light on their orders, e. g. Ihan, the human Whispers' guy, argues by throwing shade for random reasons on other representatives ("oHmYgOsH, you would dEsEcRaTe a SoUl just to get SOME GoSsIp!? And you hug YOUR MOTHER with those ARMS!?", while Cai, the sylvari Whispers gal, is much more calm, precise, and generally goal-oriented (except for that one time her best counter-point to the sylvari Vigil soldier is "I'm smart, You're not"; FeelsOfficialForumsMan).

Yeah, like for Asura, the story makes scholar Krasso look like a total chump who screws up everything, while agent Batanga succeeds beautifully ever time... And crusader Slep had some concerns about the environment or whatever.

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As many said, I'd rather have the option not have to choose any.That does not mean however that I don't enjoy doing that bit.

But since we do:

1 - Vigil

It takes a much more serious and professional approach to the war against the dragons.They are well aware of the threat that the dragons represent and there's no messing around.They're a large and organised army.

2 - Order of whispers

Though just a small group of spies.They don't really do much of anything.Then they waste time hidding and messing around with characters that eventualy become pointless and useless to the story.However, for some reason I do agree with a lot of their points of view and their representative that takes a more clever approach to certain situations rather than just blunt force.

3 - The priory

OMG.If it wasn't to make a change out of the other two, I'd never pick the priory not once.This useless run around with a crazy Sylvari chick that does nothing but get into trouble, looking for objects that have no real significant use on the long run, but to win a small battle in lion's arch... man, I wish I could choke her at some point.I must admit that it is funny to follow this path if you wanna laugh or find yourself pulling faces at both her and gix in equal measures but for different reasons.

I would have liked more options.Such as not following any at all, or just join the...● Lion Guard● Ebon Vanguard

Etc... and just do quests for them.

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@"SoulGuardian.6203" said:man, I wish I could choke her at some point.

Lol! :sweat_smile: I laughed so hard at this! :smiley:

I would have liked more options.Such as not following any at all, or just join the...● Lion Guard● Ebon Vanguard

Etc... and just do quests for them.

It would have been interesting to join some other factions. Or just be factionless, do your own thing and "somehow" get noticed by or introduced to Traherne so the rest of the story can happen.

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I think the Order of Whispers is the most interesting.

I made 4 characters on day 1 and added a 5th not long after (now up to 11) so I knew from the start I'd have characters in all 3 Orders, but expected my main character to choose my favourite, because while we can be very different people what's the point of having a main character who is always doing things you don't like? (Making stupid choices which you know will go badly, them blaming you because you're the one in control maybe, but at least that's interesting.)

At the time I thought that would be the Vigil, because promotional materials and early info made it sound like they were the only ones actually doing anything about the dragons, but the quests quickly showed that's not the case and I often found myself thinking the Whispers actually had the best plans. The Vigil were a bit too direct a lot of the time and the Priory a bit too reliant on "well, I don't know this will work but it seems cool and I want to try it, so let's see what happens".

I really enjoyed their storyline (although it did bother me that from their perspective the Vigil seem reluctant to work with the other Orders, which makes no sense when they should want as many people as possible joining the fight) and the fact that you get bonus dialogue with a lot of NPCs (including some who give no clue they're part of the Order) is a nice addition.

I do wish the Order you join made more of a difference though. I can understand not having 3 separate storylines throughout the game, but for example in Season 2 when the Priory allows you into their library I think there should have been some comment about how they wouldn't normally trust a Whispers agent with that level of access (at least not knowingly) but they're having to make an exception due to the circumstances, and more conflict with the Order of Shadows in PoF. Just generally a bit more of a sign that other organisations are having to weigh up your position as a Pact Commander with your position as a known spy and factor in that they can never be entirely certain where your loyalty lies.

It would be even more complicated for one of my charr, who is also part of the Ash Legion. I'd expect even the Order of Whispers to be suspicious of him. (Which reminds me of the one major disappointment in the Whispers storyline: an Ash Legion thief should not make the same rookie mistakes as other characters on first joining the order - walking up to Tybalt and going "HI I'M A SPY, ARE YOU A SPY TOO?". It's bad enough my human ranger was that stupid, but for him there's no excuse.)

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@"Danikat.8537" said:Just generally a bit more of a sign that other organisations are having to weigh up your position as a Pact Commander with your position as a known spy and factor in that they can never be entirely certain where your loyalty lies.

Yeah, some callbacks and continuity would have been nice to feel like your choice mattered.

It would be even more complicated for one of my charr, who is also part of the Ash Legion. I'd expect even the Order of Whispers to be suspicious of him. (Which reminds me of the one major disappointment in the Whispers storyline: an Ash Legion thief should not make the same rookie mistakes as other characters on first joining the order - walking up to Tybalt and going "HI I'M A SPY, ARE YOU A SPY TOO?". It's bad enough my human ranger was that stupid, but for him there's no excuse.)

Haha, had the same thought. I made an Ash Legion Charr and when he was like, I'M A SPY, CAN ANYONE POINT ME TO THE SPY PERSON I'M SUPPOSED TO MEET... Bruh moment right there. He should have known better as part of his training. Like you said, i can excuse a human commoner background to be this stupid when it comes to dealing with spy stuff due to inexperience, and sure, it has a comical effect, but an Ash Legion soldier?

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Whispers has plenty of bonus dialogue. You can find it here and there. Every expansion has some new agents to talk with. The base game also has some secret bases with additional NPCs, although there isn't too many of them. You also get Tybalt, who has some funny callback moments.

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